THE VIRGIN BIRTH - Part 2
The Following Message Has Been Transcribed By
The LEM Transcribing & Editing Team
Praise the Lord. We are going to be preaching today Lord willing the long awaited part 2 of The Virgin Birth. This message will be taken from Matthew chapter 1, so let us read this in the King James;
1. The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, (that means the genealogy, the history, the natural descent), the son of David, and the son of Abraham.
2. Abraham begat Isaac, and Isaac begat Jacob, and Jacob begat Judas, and his brethren.
3. And Judas begat Phares, and Zara of Tamar, and Phares begat Esrom, and Esrom begat Aram;
4. And Aram begat Aminadab, and Aminadab begat Naasson, and Naasson begat Salmon;
5. And Salmon begat Boaz of Rahab, and Boaz begat Obed of Ruth, and Obed begat Jesse;
6. And Jesse begat David the king, and David the king begat Solomon of her that had been the wife of Uriah;
7. And Solomon begat Roboam, and Roboam begat Abia, and Abia begat Asa;
8. Asa begat Jehoshaphat, and Jehoshaphat begat Joram, and Joram begat Ozias;
9. And Ozias begat Joatham, and Joatham begat Achaz, and Achaz begat Ezekias;
10. And Ezekias begat Manasses, and Manasses begat Amon, and Amon begat Josiah;
11. And Josiah begat Jechoniah, and his brethren, about the time that they were carried away to Babylon;
12. And after they were brought to Babylon, Jechoniah begat Shealtiel; and Shealtiel begat Zorobabel;
13. And Zorobabel begat Abiud; and Abiud begat Eliakim; and Eliakim begat Azor;
14. And Azor begat Sadoc; and Sadoc begat Achim; and Achim begat Eliud;
15. And Eliud begat Eleazar; and Eleazar begat Matthan; and Matthan begat Jacob;
16. And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.
17. So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations; and from David until the carrying away into Babylon arefourteen generations; and from the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ are fourteen generations.
18. Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.
19. Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a public example, was minded to put her away privily.
20. But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife; for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.
21. And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
22. Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,
23. Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
24. Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife:
25. And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS. KJV
In part 1 of this message, we went into a lot of depth about how Mary must have really had a call on her life, to be chosen to bear this child, and we talked about how first of all she had a visitation from an angel, and she received the word, she received the word that Joseph would the father of the physical child. Brethren, the Scripture clearly teaches everything brings forth after its own kind, an elm tree brings forth an elm tree, a horse brings for a horse, a human brings forth a human and spirit brings forth spirit. Spirit does not bring forth an animal child. The truth is that mankind today are an animal bodies, we are in animal bodies, spirit does not bring forth an animal body. The animal nature brings forth the animal body.
What was imparted to Mary was the seed or the soul of the spiritual being would dwell inside of the human being which is in the form of an animal. Human beings are mammals. We all have an inner man, Paul clearly talks about the inner man, hopefully our inner man is Christ Jesus, if He is not, our inner man is a spiritual inner person called the daughter of Babylon. We can say the inner man is either Cain or Abel, and we human beings must have an inner man, we are spirit and flesh. In the case of the fallen man, the flesh brought forth its own inner man. That is what it means to be carnal, it means you are completely flesh, that there is no spiritual mind in you, that the inner man is not spiritual, the inner man is a spiritual manifestation of the flesh man. You are a double portion of flesh, and that is why we die. When our inner man is Christ Jesus, who is the life, Jesus said, I am the way the truth and the life, if our inner man is fully developed and he is the life it would be impossible for us to die.
I have a couple of alternate translations for the crucial in Matthew 1, because what I am preaching here just to clarify it, just in case you do not know or someone is listening to this message first, is that, Joseph fathered the physical man Jesus of Nazareth, and that the holy thing that was born was the spiritual inner man within Joseph, and that spiritual inner man came forth from the seed of the Holy Ghost.
Part 1 was very challenging, and it is a very good study of how we came to the conclusion that Mary must have been a very holy woman, she must have been seeking God with all of her strength, she was not just someone off of the street that was chosen. We also discussed the definition of virgin at the time that the Scripture was written, and we were talking about definitions earlier in the previous message that we preached this morning. The definition of virgin at the time that the Scripture was written, was unmarried woman. In those days either you were a married, an unmarried woman, or a harlot, you were either an unmarried woman or a harlot, there was no such thing as being an unmarried woman who was not a virgin who was a respectable member of society.
We have that now in society today, a lot of women who are unmarried are not virgins and they are still respected members of society, but that was not the case in those days. This Scripture is prophesying that an unmarried woman will bring forth a child. We also discussed in part 1 how that prophecy was fulfilled in Jesus of Nazareth, but also it is a prophecy for the whole church, because the whole church is unmarried. We are
waiting for our husband, the Lord Jesus Christ to marry us, and the reason that we know that we are not fully married, is that everybody in the church that I know of is still dying. Well you say, Jesus of Nazareth died, and He was married. Jesus of Nazareth ceased to exist because the inner man within Him departed from that flesh, so from that point of view, yes Jesus of Nazareth died, but He did not die like common men die, He did not die like the members of church are dying. The members of the church today die and they leave carcases behind, they leave carcases that need to be buried, there are bones. This is the sign that they did not die as righteous men.
When a righteous man dies, he departs from the flesh, and there is no residue left, the flesh dissolves. That is why Jesus’ carcass was not found, that is why Moses’ carcass was not found. They never found the body of Moses, he was a righteous man, and the true man is the inner man.
From that point of view, Jesus did not die, is anybody not following me. The Scripture is not simple, you have to take the whole concept of what you are saying. We were talking about Mary, and how she was not just any old woman, she was an unmarried woman who was seeking God, was seeking out to God, who was relating to God. I do not believe that an angel just appeared to her suddenly while she was playing checkers, I do not mean to be irreverent, I am trying to make a point, I do not believe an angel just appeared to her suddenly while she was playing games, she was praying, she was in prayer, she was seeking God and the angel appeared to her, Mary was a woman of God, and she was chosen to be the fulfillment of prophecy. I just remembered where I was, I was saying how this prophecy was not only for Mary, and Joseph, and Jesus, but the prophecy is to the whole church, the whole church is unmarried, and the proof that we are unmarried is that we die, because if we were married to the life, it would be impossible for us to die.
We are betrothed, when the Lord receives us and we are reconciled to God, we then begin the process of salvation, a many stage process that ends in a full salvation, which is a complete marriage to the Lord Jesus Christ. That is what happened to Jesus of Nazareth. He married His inner man, who happened to be Elijah, and He married him so completely that Elijah who had life, if you recall Elijah ascended to heaven alive in a chariot of fire, he so completely joined to Elijah that when Elijah departed from that flesh man, just a sack, the flesh is just a sack, of Jesus of Nazareth, the inner man, Jesus, the personality, the soul, of Jesus, went with Elijah, and they were so completely joined, they were fully married, and it would have been impossible for Elijah to leave without the soul of Jesus.
They were completely integrated. I have been preaching this for years. If you read the Greek, it is very clear in the Greek, Jesus breathed out of that body before the body died, that is why he died faster than was expected by the Roman soldiers, and if there is no inner man, the sack dies, body dies, because it is the inner man that gives life. The whole church is unmarried, we are widowed but engaged, those of us that have a relationship with the Lord Jesus, we are engaged. Mary was a virgin, the church is a virgin.
The church, the virgin church, many Scriptures in the Old Testament refer to Israel as the virgin of Zion, Israel was unmarried too, how do I know? They died like men. Although the Scripture says in one of the Psalms that they did not have to die like men, they had the opportunity to not die like men, but the process was not completed in them. The union, the integration was not completed, so they died like men. The Scripture says, Ye are gods, but you will die like men.
6. Ihave said,Ye are gods;and allof youare children of the most High.
7. But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes. KJV
The reason that they were gods was that God dwelt inside of them, and they died like men, because their soul never integrated with the God in the midst of them. We were talking about that in the earlier message too, how judgment comes forth from the sons of God, only after the soul of the sons is completely integrated with Christ Jesus within. The judgment cannot come forth from your mind, it has to come forth from Christ Jesus within you, because your mind, meaning your carnal mind will condemn the person, and that is not God’s intention.
Our message today though is THE VIRGIN BIRTH, so the prophecy is that a virgin shall bring forth a child, and He shall be our salvation. The prophecy more completely is for the church than for Mary. Everything, there is nothing new under the sun, everything clears out, on every one of the multiple levels of creation, but I have to ask you, Mary brought forth that child, she brought forth Jesus of Nazareth, and was He her salvation? What is salvation? Let us define salvation. Salvation means rescue, rescue from what? Rescue from death, so you are not truly saved until you cease from dying. There are different degrees of salvation, but you are not fully saved until you cease from dying. There is a false doctrine in the church today, the church teachers cannot explain why we are still dying, so somewhere along the line it was decided that eternal life was after physical death. That does not make any sense to me, life is after death? Either you are alive or you are not alive. Either you are dead or you are dead, or you are alive or you are alive.
If your physical body dies, you die. Life is not in you, well life is not in you, I should not say, life is not in you, life is not in you to the degree that it can keep your body alive. This physical body is the test of life. If life is fully mature in us, it will not die. No matter how close, anyone that I have ever known or read about, aside from Jesus, has been to the Lord, their physical body has died. That says to me that salvation was not mature enough in them if it was in them at all, it was not mature enough in them to sustain the life of the flesh.
That is the promise, a virgin, a virgin of Zion, the Israel of God shall conceive a child and He shall be their salvation, He shall become their inner man that will save their soul, and the life of the flesh. Here is my question, did Jesus of Nazareth save His mother? The man Jesus of Nazareth had a mother, God did not have a mother, from this carnal point of view, God does not have a mother, Mary gave birth to a human baby that was fathered by Joseph, and within that human baby was the seed, or the seed planted by the Holy Spirit which appeared as Elijah, the inner man in Jesus was Elijah, that was the seed, the seed was Elijah that the Holy Spirit planted. It was that seed that the Magi came to see.
They were not bowing down to a human infant, they perceive the spiritual man inside. That is the ultimate prophecy, the virgin of Zion, God people shall conceive and what we conceive is the Christ child that Paul tells us will save us in childbearing, when that child is fully born in us, we shall be saved from hell and death. I am trying to make a point, Jesus of Nazareth did not save Mary. Jesus of Nazareth did not save any of the disciples. Jesus of Nazareth did not save Paul, Paul said, I am born out of Season, I have to be offered up.
I CORINTHIANS 15:8 And last of all He was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time. KJV
The glorified Jesus Christ is today in the process of saving His widowed bride today. The church is a widow, we are engaged but we have no husband. Our original husband died when we killed him by turning to the Serpent. That is the ultimate fulfillment of the prophecy, God people shall bring forth a spiritual child, an inner man that will save their soul, and for as long as we are in the flesh, will preserve our flesh, an inner man capable of preserving the life of the house that He lives in.
We see that the prophecy that is a spiritual prophecy meant for a spiritual people telling us how the Lord intends to deliver us from death, He is going to deliver us from death by impregnated us with the spiritual child called the son of God. We are the mid-wife, we are the host, we are the horse, and we die from generation to generation, and we will continue to die from generation to generation, until we give birth, or until the son of God is born again in us, and takes up residence within us. But everything that takes place on a high spiritual plane also must take place in multiple and all of the descending lower spiritual planes, so that it could be understood, therefore we see this high prophecy taking place on this level of this physical world which Jesus calls outer darkness, we see it taking place in the form of the woman Mary when in deep prayer being visited by the angel Gabriel.
Can you imagine being on your knees praying and praying, and you never expected an angel to appear to you, you are crying out to God, you are crying out, you are praising Him and asking Him for all of the things, you are interceding for the people that you love, you are asking Him, Lord, what is going to happen to Israel? I want to make a projection to you, that when Mary was praying, she was praying to Jehovah, saying, What is going to happen to my people, it has been 500 years since a prophet appeared, we were put out of our home land, we were in bondage in Babylon, you delivered us from Babylon, but look at us, you delivered us from Babylon but we are still in spiritual bondage, we are in bondage to Rome, where is the glory, where is the glory of the God of Israel. I could just hear her saying that, Where is the glory of the God is Israel? And Gabriel appears to her.
I do not think anyone could convince me that Gabriel appeared to someone playing Checkers, or some young woman, not there is anything wrong with this you know, but I do not believe that Gabriel appeared to some woman fantasizing about her upcoming wedding, or wondering or dreaming about her upcoming wedding and her dress, and whatever kind of a ceremony they had, in her new home and what her life was going to be like in the flesh with Joseph.
I do not believe that Joseph appeared to a woman like that. He appeared to a serious spiritual woman, who was seriously seeking God as to the future of her people, and the onset of Messiah. I believe she was saying, Lord, where is our deliverer, where is this Messiah? How do you think the Lord picks people to manifest Himself through. He is not arbitrary, He is a very serious God, He looks down upon the children of men, and He sees those who are seeking Him with all of their heart, those are the ones that He picks. We have a whole message called ELECTION, you want to know how to get elected, do you want to know how to be the elect of God? You have to seek Him, He elects everybody that seeks Him.
Mary was a very serious young woman, everybody got married in those days, I do not think it was possible for a woman to not get married, that was the society was set up. She was betrothed to Joseph, but she was spiritual. In part 1 of this message, we elaborated a little further and I believe we came to the conclusion that when she went to Joseph to tell him that the angel had visited her, and told her that she and Joseph were to have intercourse, sexual intercourse before their actual marriage, he thought that she was not in her right mind.
In those days women did not hear from God, it was a very macho society, although we do know that Deborah was a prophet, and there were women prophets, but basically Judah at that time was a very macho society. Women today, with orthodox Jews today, women are definitely in a second hand position. I do not know that women were always in a second hand position in Israel, but I know in Judah today, in ultra orthodox circles, they are. The Rabbis who are in authority over Israel today and over Judah today in this country or in the country of Israel, they are the descendants of the Pharisees. The Pharisees came into existence because there were no more priests. Did you ever wonder where the Rabbis came from? If you read the Bible, I do not read anything about Jehovah ordaining Rabbis. The word Rabbi means teacher, I do not remember anything about the Lord ordaining Rabbis, He ordained priests, and He spoke to His people through prophets.
Where did this Rabbi come from? They came into existence when the priests disappeared after the temple, there was a temple, I believe it was Herod’s temple that existed in the days of Jesus but it was not the real thing. I honestly do not know who was making the sacrifices in the temple in those days, and I wonder, this is the first time I had this thought but I am under the anointing right now, I wonder if there were in fact Levi priests making the sacrifices, but these teachers as they call themselves Rabbis, raised themselves up in authority over the priests, I do not know how they got started, but do you hear what I am saying?
This happens in the church today too, most of the ministers in the church today are not exercising the authority that God gave them, especially in this country, the people wield much too much authority over the ministers, and they think they have a right to do so because they tithed to the church, and whatever else, and their pride is just very high. The proper establishment, an hierarchy of God’s authority is very rarely seen in the church today, you do not see the preachers telling the people if they do something wrong, you do not see the judgment of sin, in most cases, of course there are always exceptions.
For whatever reason these Rabbis, if the priests did exist in the temple, the Rabbis were wielding authority over the priests. Mary went to Joseph and, his little woman who he was engaged to, and told him this fantastic story that an angel had just appeared to her, Gabriel had just appeared to her, and told her that she was to bring forth the Messiah, and that the physical body of Messiah was to be fathered by Joseph before they were married to fulfill prophecy on this level.
We go into that whole story on part 1 of this message. I find that the most controversial Scriptures on Luke which we did in part 1, the controversial Scripture here that I see is verse 18, which says,
MATTHEW 1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise, when as His mother Mary was espoused to Joseph before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost. KJV
I could give you two different alternate translations of that verse, that are very interesting, but I am going to challenge you right here from the surface King James translation of this verse, I am going to challenge you to believe that it is true, that she was pregnant before Joseph and Mary came together, but she was pregnant spiritually. Conception is spiritual, it happens in the spirit, then it appears in the natural, she conceived in the higher world. The soul that was intended to indwell the physical baby that would come into existence, when she cohabited with Joseph, was conceived in the spiritual plane. Is anybody not following me? I do not have to give you any fancy alternate translation, although I will because they are interesting, but it is all how you think, it is right here, are you going to read it with your spiritual mind or are you going to read it with your carnal mind.
MATTHEW 1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise, when as His mother Mary was engaged to Joseph, before they had sexual intercourse, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost. AT
The Holy Ghost does not bring forth an animal child, the child of the Holy Ghost is a soul. Everybody okay? You are all looking at me. Brethren, salvation is the ascension of your mind. Your mind, I am not going to get into it right now, the difference between mind and soul in this message, our soul is trapped in this flesh body and it has to ascend out of here. It does not fly away, it ascends in consciousness, our soul ascends in consciousness until it reaches a level of holiness, or a level of proximity to God, that this physical body melts away.
This physical body is formed by the indwelling inner man, the inner man is a spiritual man that has a mind. Adam fell down into the consciousness of the Serpent, and his offspring were born as animals. The way out of here is for our mind to return to the mind of our true husband, which is spirit, and when our mind becomes joined to the mind of our husband, there will be nothing left, no level of consciousness left to form an animal body, we will have a spiritual body. Am I making any sense at all?
Mary was with child of the Holy Ghost, that is right, there is nothing wrong with this translation. What is wrong is what we have been taught it means and what is wrong is with our carnal mind that thinks that the Holy Ghost gives birth to an animal, or the Holy Ghost causes a woman to give birth to an animal. That is what is wrong, our reasoning is wrong. The Holy Ghost does not cause a woman to give birth to an animal.
We see as simplistically, I will put it simplistically right now, that a woman conceives on two levels, and I say it simplistically because I am sure it is more than two levels, but for this conversation, she conceives in the spirit and then that conception materializes in the flesh, and in order for it to materialize in the flesh, an act of sexual intercourse between a man and a woman is necessary, to produce the animal house of the spiritual child that was conceived. Here are my two alternate translations which are very interesting, this is the most interesting one:
MATTHEW 1:18 Now this is the reason why the nature of the Father was given to Mary, (and again I told you that I am not really going over telling you exactly, you know you could look these words up yourself and find out, that one of these words translated birth can also be translated nature of the Father, there is another word that means nature of the mother, nature of the Father. Now this is the reason why the nature of the Father was given to Mary, the mother of Jesus Christ, as an engagement present before she was impregnated by the Holy Ghost and cohabited with Joseph. AT
These are all the same Greek words, just moved them around, took a different translation of some of them and moved the words around and this is what I legitimately get:
MATTHEW 1:18 Now this is the reason why the nature of the Father was given to Mary, the mother of Jesus Christ as an engagement present before she was impregnated by the Holy Ghost and cohabited with Joseph. AT
What in the world are you talking about Sheila? I suggest to you that Mary had the nature of the Father. What is the nature of the Father? The anointing, in the New Testament we call it Christ, imputed Christ. From all of that praying and all of that interceding and all of that crying out to God for her people, she received the nature of the Father, she had a prophetic anointing. Mary was a prophetess. The proof of that is that she became a follower of Jesus after His ascension, after He ascended into His office, she was there at the upper room, she was there at the cross, she was a believer. She had the nature of the Father, imputed though it may be.
MATTHEW 1:18 For this reason, this Is the reason why the nature of the Father was given to Mary, the Mother of Jesus Christ as an engagement present... AT
What are you talking about Sheila, an engagement present?
EPHESIANS 1:13-14 In whom ye also trusted after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation in whom also after ye believed, you were sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise, which is the earnest or down payment of our inheritance, until the redemption of the purchased possession. KJV
That is the engagement present, if you have the Holy Spirit, you have received an engagement present from the Lord, your Father in heaven, has given you the earnest of your inheritance, the down payment, He has given you an engagement ring, you have a diamond on your finger if you have the Holy Spirit, and you do not have to be talking in tongues to have the Holy Spirit, talking in tongues is a particular degree of the Holy Spirit, a unique degree of the Holy Spirit, that is identified by speaking in tongues, but you also have the Holy Spirit if you have faith in Jesus Christ, you have the Holy Spirit if you have His mind, you certainly have the Holy Spirit if you have His mind.
If you are in any of these categories, you are an engaged woman, whether you are a physical male or a physical female, you an engaged spiritual woman, you are betrothed, you are in possession of a diamond ring, it is on your finger, until the time of the redemption of the purchased possession. That diamond ring on your finger has purchased you, you are now the property of the Lord, and His mark is on you, until He comes back and takes all of you, and the sign that He has redeemed you, the sign that He has taken all of you is that the body that you live in will cease from dying. Mary received an engagement present.
MATTHEW 1:18 Now this is the reason why the nature of the Father was given to Mary, the mother of Jesus Christ, as an engagement present, before she was impregnated by the Holy Ghost and cohabited with Joseph. AT
What is this translation saying, this is an awesome translation. This is telling us that conception takes place even before the physical conception. This is referring to abortion. Somebody asked me recently, Do you believe abortion is legitimate in the case of incest or rape? I have to tell you that I have not really heard from the Lord on that, it is a horrible situation, it should not happen to anybody, I do not have an opinion, I am sorry if that disappoints you, but I do have an opinion.
One of the issues, when this issue comes before the courts, when this issue comes up for discussion, one of the issues that is not defined, is the time of conception. You can have one person fighting for abortion and another person fighting against abortion, you really have to agree on the time of conception before you can be for or against abortion. Anybody not following me? This tells us that the conception is there even before the seeds mix, it is a very difficult problem. I am not preaching on abortion today, but I am just making a point.
MATTHEW 1:18 Now this is the reason why the nature of the Father was given to Mary, and she sought Him in prayer and fasting, and humbling herself she received the nature of the Father. She was a holy woman, a prophetess, the mother of Jesus Christ, as an engagement present, the nature of the Father as an engagement present, before she was impregnated by the Holy Ghost. AT
First she was a holy woman, first she sought God, she followed God, she pursued and she studied the Scriptures, and she received an imputed Christ, then she received an engagement present, she received the Spirit of the Lord, I do not know what it would have been called before Jesus was glorified, but she was received the Spirit of the Lord, the Spirit of promise, and then she was impregnated by the Holy Ghost, she received the spiritual seed and then she cohabited with Joseph and the spiritual seed materialized in the physical baby. I think I will put this on the board, I think you are getting it, but it will be very powerful putting this on the board, let us put this on the board.
COMMENT: On abortion, my son and I were having a discussion and asked if I was pro life or pro choice, and I do not agree with abortion, but also the issue of incest and rape, I am speaking about that. He kept pursuing what are you, and when the topic, when you were talking, the first discussion on evaluating words and what they mean, I had to say that I guess I would be pro choice, because pro choice is choosing, and I cannot say that if I was raped or would I continue, would I not have an abortion in that situation. When you have to evaluate what the word means...
PASTOR VITALE: We are really all pro choice unless... That would mean if you in the case of rape, incest or the life of the mother, to say you are pro life 100% you would have to be against abortion even if for the life of the mother, very interesting.
COMMENT: He would not let me go, he just said, are you pro life or pro choice? So I prayed and when you were discussing that...
PASTOR VITALE: So you have not answered him yet.
COMMENT: I said, I would have to say I am pro choice.
PASTOR VITALE: Oh, okay.
COMMENT: It was hard for me to do because I am against abortion.
PASTOR VITALE: Well you have to define it for him though right. Very interesting so the Lord even responded to you in this message.
COMMENT: Since we are talking about young people, just a few nights ago, my youngest son said to me, Ma, you cannot really believe that Mary was a virgin when she gave birth to Jesus.
PASTOR VITALE: And what did you say?
COMMENT: I feel like God is speaking to me in preparation.
PASTOR VITALE: Okay, witnessing to you, praise God. Ah, so wonderful, the truth is so wonderful, it is so wonderful.
COMMENT: Spiritual conception, if it is not of God, because this could happen in another spirit, can that be held for generations, so the spiritual conception of somebody, like your grandmother, but nothing, no rape or incest happened, but it would fall in another generation?
PASTOR VITALE: What would fall in another generation?
COMMENT: The actual act of the conception of, like the unholy conception, so a rape or an incest?
PASTOR VITALE: You mean if the initial conception is unholy, then in future generations, it would manifest as a rape or incest? That it would manifest as an unholy conception in this world? Is that what you are saying?
COMMENT: Could the spiritual conception be not of that generation, I guess, it could not manifest for generations for years?
PASTOR VITALE: I just want to understand what you are saying because I think you have got a very good point there. This is what I think you are asking me; if another spirit causes a conception of a woman, and in the material world nothing wrong happens, but it is just a wrong, let us just say she is a married woman, but an unclean spirit succeeds in conceiving through her, will that materialize in a future generation as a rape or incest?
COMMENT: Yes, as a conception of a rape.
PASTOR VITALE: That is a very interesting thought, and initially I would be inclined to say yes, you know, well I am just going to go with this, a couple of years ago, I sought the Lord concerning the conception of Moab and Ammon of the offspring of the supposed physical daughters of Lot. The Lord gave me a spiritual understanding of that incest that took place. I said to the Lord, I understood the spiritual understanding of the incest that took place, that it was really an incest of Lot’s mind, in other words he was not agreeing with the Christ mind, he was agreeing with the carnal mind, because the angel that said to him, Come on you have to get out of Sodom now, because destruction is coming.
That was the Christ mind talking to him, but he did not go, he only went as far as Zoar because she was afraid, or whatever his reason was, he never got beyond Zoar, and then he went into the cave, and his two daughters which were Cain and Abel, he had incest in his mind, am I making myself clear? I said, Wow Lord, that sounds right to me, but I do not understand if that incest that is described in the book of Genesis was an incest of mind, how did the nations of Moab and Ammon come into existence? At the time I was so excited to get this revelation, this is what He said to me.
Lot had an incest of mind, he departed from the Christ mind and he agreed with the carnal mind and the carnal mind at the time was Cain and Abel, Abel was under the dominion of Cain, so they were both negative, and two spiritual seeds were born in his mind and then somewhere, somehow, some way, he came out of that cave, he had sex with a harlot, he got married again, he had a concubine, I do not know, but he gave birth, he impregnated two women, Lot, impregnated two women in the natural and those two seeds of incest that were formed in his mind that stopped him from going onward from Zoar and caused him to stay where he was, were manifested in those two boys, Moab and Ammon, each of which became a nation, and they both were of incest. Did you follow me, what I said? It is really in line with what you just asked me, that the seed, it is not exactly the same, the seed, the male seed was in the spirit of Lot, and the next time he had sexual intercourse with, there is no record of it, in the five books of Moses, that seed of spiritual incest was passed into two sons who became the progenitors of violent nations that became in the flesh the enemies of Israel, although Moab much more than Ammon, but they became the enemies of Israel.
It was the carnal mind in Lot that warred against his Christ mind, his carnal mind won, and he gave birth, or he caused two women to give birth to two sons that became the enemies of Israel. Is that making any sense to you? Although it is not the same thing that you just said, I think it is the same principle, interesting. Anybody else on this before I draw my picture?
We have drawing #1, I have tried to depict for you spiritual conception, and to separate it from the physical conception. Everything starts with the will of God and down on the next lower spiritual plane, we see the will of God acted out by angels, that is what angels are the thought forms of God. God thinks, an angel comes into existence and carries out God’s thought. The reason that there are thousands and thousands of angels is that God is so great that there are probably an infinite number of angels designed to carry out His will and His desires and His thoughts.
I do not think God has thoughts, He just has will, and I am going to let that go for now, because I am not sure. The will of God appears in the lower plane as a messenger that we call angels, and that messenger has the seed or the ability within himself to carry out the will of God. If it is the will of God that a person with His nature should appear in the earth, the angel appears with the seeds of the nature of God. The nature of the angel strikes up a communication with the spiritual womb, and this will break your pride, that is what we are, we are all spiritual wombs, physical males and physical females, we are designed and our purpose here is to carry the seed of God and to bring it to maturation. When it matures, it does not depart from us, it joins with us, and we become one with God. That is the inheritance, we inherit everything that He is, when we are completely joined, and the union brethren implies or suggests the relinquishing or the rejection of everything in our life that is antagonistic towards His life.
Everything in our life, every thought, every practice, every desire, that does not fit into His kingdom, or that is destructive to His kingdom that He is building in you has got to go. Either we give it up, or He takes it if we are truly called. The sign that you can go your own way is that you are not truly called. That is the truth. I am telling you the truth.
The will of God manifests as a messenger of God, the messenger of God comes with the seeds that will bring to pass the will of God, He communicates with the spiritual womb, and how does He find this woman, I guess I have to show that on the board, her prayers, I will do it when we finish this segment, her prayers are ascending up to heaven, and the angel sees them. It is like He is flying around the sky in an airplane, and He is looking down there for somebody who is reaching towards God. He is looking for a willing receptacle, He is not looking for someone that is swimming in the ocean, there is nothing wrong with swimming, I am making a point, He is reaching for the person that is reaching for God, and there is a communication with the spiritual womb, or the woman who will be a spiritual womb.
I am not, the thought just came to my mind, well what about the physical male that is reaching for God. I do not know, I am not going to get into that now, it is not this message and I do not have the answer anyway. There is an agreement of mind between the angel and the woman who is praying to God, seeking God for what is going to happen to her people for when Messiah will appear, and He deposits His seed, and He deposits His seed in her mind, and from her mind the seeds go into her heart, and there is a spiritual conception in her heart.
I am not really sure where the spiritual conception takes place, but I am saying heart for now, because I am not really sure, but I know that the mind definitely has something to do with it. A natural conception is in the heart I think, and the spiritual child is formed, the woman then must have sexual intercourse with a human male to produce the physical child.
I remind you that the two genealogies of the descendants of ancestry of Jesus Christ in the Scripture, one in the book of Matthew, and one in the book of Luke, they are both the genealogy of Joseph. Neither one is the genealogy of Mary. If Joseph was so unimportant why would the two genealogies be of Joseph? Because Joseph sired the physical child known as Jesus of Nazareth.
The seed of the Father came to the mother, the spiritual seed came from the mother, and the physical seed came from the father, but Mary was the one who became the disciple of Jesus, Joseph, we have no reason to believe that He became a disciple, Mary was the prophetess, she was a spiritual woman, she was the contact of God, she was the one who was engaged and was chosen to be the physical woman to make the statement from which the church of God, or today the church of the Lord Jesus Christ, could hopefully ascend in mind to the point that they could comprehend that the whole of spiritual Israel is the woman that we see in the Revelation 12, who is pregnant and travailing to give birth. Any questions on this? I will give you my other alternate translation of Matthew 1:18:
MATTHEW 1:18 Now the nature of the Holy Spirit was given to Jesus Christ before Elijah, (of course I added in Elijah), possessed the womb of Mary His mother, and before she and Joseph who were engaged came together. AT
The nature of the Holy Spirit was given to Jesus Christ before Elijah possessed the womb of Mary, in other words the seed up here already had the nature of Elijah who was in the image of Jesus Christ, ...before Elijah possessed the womb of Mary, Jesus’ mother, and before she and Joseph who were engaged came together. I like the other translation better. Do you need me to say it again?
MATTHEW 1:18 Now the nature of the Holy Spirit was given to Jesus Christ, (up here in the spirit), before Elijah or the spiritual child possessed the womb of Mary His mother, and before Mary and Joseph who were engaged came together. AT
I like the other one better definitely.
MATTHEW 1:18 Now this is the reason why the nature of the Father was given to Mary, the mother of Jesus Christ as an engagement present before she was impregnated by the Holy Ghost and cohabited with Joseph. AT
We all have to bear the spiritual child, that is what Paul tells us, we shall be saved in child bearing, and we bear the spiritual child when He comes to full term in us, He will save us, the soul, we are soul, He will save our soul, personality, the life of this world. If he does not come to that level of maturity in this life time, this body will die, and our true essence will reincarnate, reincarnation is real, the reason the church is so against it, is that it completely destroys the doctrine of eternal damnation.
Reincarnation does not necessarily presuppose salvation by good works as one form of reincarnation does, we have a whole message here called SALVATION, orTHE TRUTH ABOUT SALVATION, or who knows, I put so many messages out there, does anybody remember then name? SALVATION BY WORKS, thank you (chuckle). There is no salvation by works, once our soul is joined to the Lord Jesus Christ, then as we reincarnate we work out our own salvation and because He is right there joined to us forgiving our sins, we are able to make some headway and make progress towards the day of perfection. The Scripture says, Be ye perfect even as your Father in heaven is perfect.
MATTHEW 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father in heaven is perfect. KJV
That means it is possible for us to be perfected. The sign that we are perfected is that we will stop dying. Perfection is possible after we are joined to the Lord Jesus Christ, our sins are forgiven and then we could make some headway. If we are not joined to the Lord Jesus Christ, we may overcome in certain qualities, certain character defects, but then we will do other things, so there is no way that you can get ahead by trying to teach salvation by good works. You could be joined to life who is the Lord Jesus Christ with your sins forgiven and then you go forward working to rebuild the righteous nature that we lost before Adam died. Are there any questions at this point.
There are a couple of other interesting verses here, I will just look at them quickly. Then if the Lord would grant me, I would like to do a third part here and do the alternate translations certainly in Luke as well as Matthew.
MATTHEW 1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise, when as His mother Mary was espoused to Joseph before they came together she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.
19. Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a public example, was minded to put her away privily. KJV
That was verse 19, and basically what that is saying is, Joseph her then husband, was a holy man, he was another person who was holy, he was not out there just fooling around or bowling, whatever he was doing, they did not bowl in those days, he was a holy man, a just man, he was in right standing with God. These were two holy people that brought forth that child, and he was not inclined to exhibit her. That is interesting, there are two, by the way there are basically two translators from the original Hebrew, on is not a man, it is called the Textus Receptus, and that is the classical Interlinear Text from the Textus Receptus, which is Latin, and there is a man named Nestle who is a more modern person, but he did his own translation, and it is from Nestle’s translation that all of the new translations are coming forth, the NIV, and all of these sister translations that are, many which are leaving out the deity of Jesus Christ, and the blood of Jesus.
The most accurate translation available today is still the King James, although it is hard to understand, at least the warfare is in there, the deity of Jesus is in there, the blood of Jesus is in there. This man Nestle, who translated from the Septuagint, and assigned each word to a Strong’s number, it is his translation that the new translations are coming from. I have a Bible program that gives me the choice of both translators, so for this word, the Greek word translated to make a public example, Nestle and Textus Receptus disagree. Nestle uses a word, Strong’s #1165, that suggest he want to make her a disgrace or he did not want her to be a disgrace, but Textus Receptus uses Strong’s #3856 which simply means that he did not want to exhibit her. Maybe he did not want everybody to know, maybe he knew that it was a spiritual happening and he wanted to protect her.
We know that Herod tried to kill all of the babies two years and younger, he did not want her to be out in the open. This was a secret happening, it was a fulfillment of prophecy, maybe it was not time for the throngs of people to know. That is a subtle difference, but the translator that chooses the word that suggest that Joseph did not want her to be disgraced really emphasizes the illegitimacy, but the original, I do not believe the Greek original word which was in Aramaic suggested infamy.
These were two holy people. Again to remind you, Joseph did not agree to marry her even though she was pregnant and a disgrace and he had mercy on a pregnant woman, that is not what happened. Mary the prophetess came to her fiancé Joseph, a holy man, and said, I was just visited by an angel, and he told me that the seed of spiritual conception has been imparted to me, and now we are to have physical intercourse to bring forth the child, and that we are to do it before the actual marriage to fulfill prophecy.
If you review the other part of this message, you hear Joseph saying, No, I am not going to do that, I am a holy man, I do not fornicate, absolutely not. Then the angel came to Joseph and said, Do not be afraid to take Mary to wife, what she told you is truly of the Holy Ghost, because Joseph was not going to do it, he would sin. Verse 20.
20. But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife; for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost. KJV
Please note the angel Gabriel appeared to Mary but spoke to Joseph through a dream, which is the higher form of communication, to appear to you and speak to directly, or to appear to you in a dream? To be spoke to directly, Mary was more spiritually ascended than Joseph, she was no little maiden who was chosen to bring forth an illegitimate child, she was a prophetess. You want to say something?
COMMENT: I use to mediate on this holy thing that conceived, and by reverse reference, we are unholy because we are the offspring of the Serpent, and I always thought that this always had to do with Jesus being the first born of many brethren, the new creation man, but I can see this from the other side, Joseph being the physical...
PASTOR VITALE: I am not sure what you are saying, try me again. (Chuckle)
COMMENT: Joseph could be the physical father of Jesus, but the holy thing...
PASTOR VITALE: Was the spiritual thing inside, okay.
COMMENT: We are unholy because we in offspring of the Serpent.
PASTOR VITALE: right, Jesus was the true offspring, he was the inner man, the holy inner man, that holy thing is the holy inner man that Mary conceived. We have an unholy inner man, until Jesus comes to us, and when Jesus comes to us, then we have a holy man and an unholy man and they are fighting for control of our brain. I told you earlier, I think we were not recording at the time, that Satan is in our brain, our brain is the control panel, and she presses the buttons, she can cause us pain, she can make us sick. There are two spirits, if you have the two spirits, they are in your brain, of course in the rest of your body too, in your brain seeking to control your body, and there are two minds seeking to control your thoughts.
COMMENT: I thought both Joseph and Mary were of the house of David.
PASTOR VITALE: I could not find any genealogy of Mary, I looked, just Joseph, Joseph is the descendant of David, the person who gave the physical body to Jesus of Nazareth could not find any genealogy on Mary at all, which is significant, very significant.
COMMENT: You said that there was two conceptions, spiritual conception and physical. Is that what you said?
PASTOR VITALE: Yes, absolutely, and I believe that is true of every child born, there are two conceptions. There is a conception to, everything that happens in this world, takes place in the spiritual world first. This physical world that we live in, is a mirror image of the spiritual worlds above, there is nothing unique that happens in this world. That is why King Solomon said, There is nothing new under the sun. everything that happens here has already happened, and it is playing out here and it will play out over and over and over again, just like Ground Hog Day, if you saw that movie, you know, until something interferes with it, and what has to interfere with it is the thought process of the Lord Jesus Christ, Christ in you, Christ Jesus, the only mediator between God and man, has to come into your thought process and cause you to make different choices. That is the interference, otherwise it just plays out over and over and over again.
COMMENT: The Scripture always keeps coming back to me, does it not say in the Bible, first in the natural then in the spirit. How does that play into this?
PASTOR VITALE: That is a good question, let me see if I can remember the answer, because I know I asked the Lord the same question. Yes, everything that happens in this world is initially conceived in the spirit, and it plays out in this world first in the natural, and then in the spiritual, in this world. It is conceived up here in this world, and it plays out in this world in two stages, first it plays out naturally, and then it plays out spiritually in this world, but it is initiated from up here. It is not wonderful, I love it when God gives us these answers, it is so exciting. We are not supposed to be robots, we are supposed to understand if something does not sound right to us, you can ask the Lord, do not worry about it, do not worry about changing this book, you are going to burn in hell forever Sheila because you changed this book.
This book is a translation, this word, it is a spiritual word, it is holy and it is alive and if you truly, truly want the truth, not if you want to be right, if you truly, truly want the truth, the Lord will open your mind and your heart, and it is so exciting to start really understanding this word, rather than to be a Pharisee, who is just quoting Scriptures and trying to put you in bondage, and they do not even understand what they are saying, it is very sad you know and I am not condemning Pharisees, I pray that they should be liberated from, what is a Pharisee, or the spiritual content of a Pharisee? It is a human being whose carnal mind has laid hold of the Scripture, and is using the Scripture as a weapon against God’s people. These are true spiritual Pharisees. I am going to say it again, a human being whose carnal mind has laid hold of the Scripture and is using it to put that person in bondage and everyone else that they would use it against in bondage, using the word of God against God’s own people to put them in bondage. The Lord has promised us liberty. Verse 21:
21. And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins. KJV
This is so important, the physical blood that Jesus shed on calvary is not saving anybody, that blood turned to dust years and years and years and years ago, over two thousand years ago, it is gone. It is His resurrected spiritual blood, what is the blood? Blood is the life of the flesh, it is the spiritual life, the resurrected spiritual life in you, that is going to save you, it is those seed, that is what those seeds are, that is the resurrected spiritual life of Jesus Christ entering into and impregnating you with the spiritual offspring of the glorified Jesus Christ, only in this day and age, you do not have to have a physical man to impregnate you with a physical child, the spiritual child, you become the host, you become the host of the spiritual child, and you are the one that is going to be changed into the image and the nature of the Lord Jesus Christ.
This is what happened with Mary, or what happens with everyday people is there is a spiritual conception and then there is a physical conception. That was because Jesus was the savior, there was no savior before that, or there was no savior before that, or there was no savior in the flesh.
We know that Jehovah said, I am the savior, Jehovah is the savior of Israel, but there was no savior in the flesh before that. I have to even clarify that, there were a lot of saviors in Israel, every judge in the book of Judges was a savior in Israel, you know, but none of those saviors ascended and were changed into a form that could impregnate all of humanity. Jesus is the savior of mankind, He is THE savior of mankind, but every judge, every hero, every prophet that sent forth, Jonah was a savior to Ninevah, do you understand what I am saying? Lot was a savior to Sodom, but they were human saviors.
I am a savior to you all, but I could only do, I am limited because I am a human savior, anybody that you help to the point that you change their life, you are a savior to them. If you have changed anyone’s life, if you have impacted somebody’s life, to the point that you have changed it, you are a savior to them, to that person, but you are still a fallen human being, and you are still going to die.
All of the judges and the heroes of the Bible were saviors, but Jesus is the only savior that ascended on, that overcame death, ascended on high, and is now equipped to pour out of the higher spiritual realms and impregnate the whole world with his life in such a form that, that life remains inside of the person, that spiritual life remains inside of the person, imparting life to the spiritual womb. Mary died, she passed, the seed that she received went into a human child and that physical child was born, and then she became the disciple of that child.
This is the greater works, someone was recently asking me what the greater works are, Jesus said we would do the greater works, this is the greater works, because of Jesus’ resurrection and His conversion into a form by which He could pour out of His Spirit, and the Scripture says He is sprinkling on us, and dropping His seed on us and that seed can now grow inside of human beings and remain with us and save us from hell and death.
Again because of His condition, the form that He was translated into, He is capable of saving the whole world at this time, at this moment the glorified Jesus Christ is capable of saving every human being on the face of the earth, what is holding up salvation? Somebody, what is holding it up?
COMMENT: We are, because we have not come into the right place where we are completely united in the Lord, we are not completely one yet.
PASTOR VITALE: Well that is true but that is not what I am looking for is what is holding everything up is that...
COMMENT: The carnal mind?
PASTOR VITALE: Well not really.
PASTOR VITALE: What is holding everything up is that...
COMMENT: Marriage between...
PASTOR VITALE: Well you are hitting around okay, and we talked about this earlier, yes, what is holding everything up is that it is the will of God that salvation should be ministered from one human being to another human being, and before the human beings, and therefore He has to prepare a company of human beings to minister His life, and that is what is holding everything up for two thousand years, the Lord is working to prepare this firstfruits company who will be so joined to Christ Jesus that they will manifest judgment because there is no salvation without judgment, no salvation without judgment.
Your sins have to be exposed. You have to reach into a certain measure of righteousness or union with Christ Jesus before we can judge sins. For two thousand years He is preparing, the firstfruits company will be able to judge sins and to teach, teach His message as He would have it taught, to teach out of the mind of Christ, and that is what we are waiting for, the first group of people or the first person who will be able to do that, to repeat what He hears from the Lord, to repeat in common language, in a way that his fellow man can understand, and to judge that person’s sin out of the spirit of life, not out of the spirit of condemnation. It is a revelation of sin that comes out fo a spirit life that produces life. The revelation of sin that comes out of your carnal mind kills the person, breaks their heart and destroys them.
The whole world is standing on tiptoe waiting for the manifestation of the sons of God. They are all waiting for us, they may not know it but they are waiting for us. Their inner man knows it, Abel knows it, the whole creation is waiting for us, that is the truth, and we are living in a very exciting day, most likely we are going to see it, we are at the door.
22. Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,
23. Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us. KJV
That is what Paul was reiterating when he said, They shall be saved in childbearing,
I TIMOTHY 2:15 Not withstanding she shall be saved in childbearing if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety. KJV
It is the same thing.
24. Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife:
25. And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS. KJV
That is an interesting verse, maybe we will pick up with that next week, because he was not, it is interesting, the Scripture says the angel spoke to him in a dream. You do not necessarily have to be sleeping to hear from the Lord. A dream means a trance, you could be laying down sleeping and the Lord could talk to you in a trance and the Lord could talk to you, a trance is a form of a dream.
This Greek word translated awake, or he awoke, Joseph being raised from sleep, it does not suggest physical sleep. He was fully awake, fully conscious, fully aware of what was being said to him, that he knew the message, he was fully enlightened and equipped to go forward, with what he was called to do. Do you know that you cannot fulfill the call on your life if you do not know what it is, and you might know what the call on your life is and you still cannot fulfill it if you do not know how to fulfill it, and if you try to fulfill the call on your life the way your carnal mind dictates it, you are going to fail and you are going to get hurt.
Joseph was fully awake, he knew what was going on, spiritually, fully awake. I do not know that I have sufficient notes to give you the revelation on that verse, and I think I will let it go til next week, but off of the top of my head, I will tell you what I remember,
MATTHEW 1:24-25 And he was fully raised from sleep and he did as the angel the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife, and knew her not until she brought forth her firstborn son, and he called his name Jesus. AT
I would not be inclined to translate it that way,
...until she brought forth the firstborn. AT
She brought forth the first man who was born, because when we are pregnant with the spiritual child, all of us that are pregnant with Christ, this is the son of the glorified Jesus Christ, and there is really no difference between a father and a son. Did you notice at the beginning of chapter of the book of Matthew, it said, let me tell you exactly what it said.
MATTHEW 1:1 Jesus Christ, the son of David and the son of Abraham... KJV
What about all of the people between Abraham and David, and Joseph? All of those people in between, if the seed of the Lord Jesus Christ is in you, the son is the same as the father, but their position is different, the Father is in heaven, and the son is in the earth, but they are the same person, that is what Jesus meant when He said, All of this time you have seen and you have asked to see the Father? He did not mean that He was God in the flesh, Jesus did not mean that He was the Father. This is an error in the church, Jesus was the son of God, He was not God in the flesh. He said, I and the Father are one, He said, I and the Father, we make the two witnesses, I do not witness of myself, the Father witnesses of me. He never claimed to be God in the flesh, this is a complete error in the church. As I said, I will go over these verses in more detail next week Lord willing, but it was the firstborn, the offspring of the firstborn, Adam before the fall, the firstborn before the fall came forth, not necessarily her firstborn human child. Do you want to say something?
COMMENT: How are you distinguishing between when you say the deity of Christ, and it is not God in the flesh? You said by the King James verifies the deity of Christ?
PASTOR VITALE: Well I do not think the King James even verifies the deity of Christ, it is teachers in the church today. I do not know of one Scripture where Jesus said, I am God, He said, I am the son of God.
COMMENT: That is right, but with Thomas, He was already risen, and Thomas said, Behold, my Lord and my God, He was already risen and still was not glorified, but He was risen.
PASTOR VITALE: He never claimed to be God in the flesh, never, and I maintain that the Scripture in the book of Revelation of John talking to the angel, where the angel said, Do not worship me worship God, that, that angel that he spoke to, that angel said, I am a man, in the book of Revelation, the angel that is giving John this whole revelation, John worshiped him and the angel said to him, Do not worship me, I am a man like you are. Who could have been qualified to give John that incredible revelation?
I believe it was Jesus Christ, and He said, I am a man just like you are, He was not God in the flesh. I am glad that they do not burn people at the stake these days but I will take on anybody that wants to challenge me, they can call me anything that they want, I have been called a Jehovah’s witness, whatever, call me anything that you want, it is not even in the Bible, it is not even a question of revelation, it is not in the Bible, He never claimed to be God, He always claimed to be the son of God, and He always indicated that He and the Father were two witnesses, that He was separate from the Father in the days of His flesh.
Look, He came to be an example for us, He came to show us that we can escape from hell and death in the form of this body and this world, the same way that He did, does that mean, now listen to this very carefully, He is the pattern son right, He is showing us the way, we can hope to achieve what He achieved to, we can never be greater than Him, but we can be equal to Him, did He not say that? He did. Does that mean that everyone here is God? Are we God. What happens when we stand up in full stature, will there be a thousand Gods in the earth, come on brethren, think, is everybody going to be a God or are we going to be the sons of God, is there going to be a spirit of God manifesting through the sons of God in the earth, and we will be the sons and He will be the Father, or is each one of us going to be God in the earth.
Do you know how I got this revelation? I went before the Lord, and I said, Lord, show me how to minister to the Jew, this has to be in the Old Testament, it has to be there, show it to me in their language, and two years later, I got the word, it is not there because it is not true. This is where the practicing Jew comes from, to them, to worship a man is to worship an idol, it is a form. We are clearly instructed to not worship any form, God has no form, He is Spirit, we must worship Him in Spirit and in truth, so how could you say the form of a man is God? The doctrine in the church is perverse, I keep saying this.
The glorified Jesus Christ is God, so the resurrection, they will teach you the resurrection, they will teach you faith in Jesus Christ, they teach you how to pray, all of that basic stuff is good, but after that, it is just wrong, it is just plain wrong, and people are stumbling and tripping, and listen brethren, eventually the practicing Jews and the true Christians have to get together to form the Israel of God, and we will never get together as long as we believe this that God took the form of a man, because God is not a form, He is a Spirit! It says it right in the Bible.
Do you know why Jehovah separated Israel, separated the northern and the southern kingdoms, do you know why? Do you have any idea of the power that was invested, that was vested in the unified kingdom? Incredible power, spiritual power, military power, there was incredible manifestation of power in the unified kingdom under a righteous head, first King David, and then King Solomon. The reason that Jehovah split the kingdom was because Solomon sinned and he lost the kingdom, and his very weak unrighteous son inherited it, and the Lord would not allow that power to reside under an unrighteous king, so He divided the kingdom.
Is anybody not following me? There is a spiritual kingdom brethren, it is the Christians who have the heart of God and the Jews that have the heart of God, Paul calls it the Israel of God, the kingdom is uniting again, and there will be an incredible manifestation of power, but it is not uniting without a righteous king. That means that the righteous king who will be indwelling us, Christ Jesus has to appear in the people and you are about to see the most incredible manifestation of spiritual power that is going to come down to the earth, it will be manifested in a nation, the greatness of America was just the precursor, the prototype of what is about to come. Think of United States in it’s heyday, we are deteriorating now, the greatness of the United States at the point of World War II, the rescuer of the world, in righteousness, it is going to come again, and it is going to be manifested in a nation with righteous leaders, exactly how that is going to play out, I am not sure.
There are people out there with all kinds of ideas, but it is coming, so keep your mind on that, when things look bad, just pray and do your part, but do not get discouraged because this kingdom, this United States now, it was just the precursor, it was the imputed manifestation of the Israel of God, and it could not last because the foundation was not there, it was given without the people earning it, so it is collapsing, but it is going to rise up as a root out of dry ground, the true Israel of God.
First it is going to manifest in the spirit, which is happening now, and then it is going to manifest as a righteous nation under a righteous ruler. No matter how bad things look, do not, resist being depressed at all times, believe the truth, that the Lord cannot fail, it is impossible, He cannot fail, it is impossible. That is what is coming, the Israel of God, you know, I have known that for years, the Israel of God. Oh that is nice, the Israel of God, what does that mean? Power, the most incredible manifestation of power ever known to mankind, and it is going to cover the whole earth. Anybody else before we end?
COMMENT: I am just thinking Jerusalem and USA., the center of it, that is all, that someone talked about one time.
PASTOR VITALE: Well I am not saying that it is the United States of America, maybe it will be, maybe it will not be, I do not know. Let us be very careful to not draw conclusions and let us be very careful to put our pride away, because that is pride that wants it to be the United States of America. I talked about this recently. Do not be drawing any conclusions, you do not know, that was a spirit of pride in you Xxxx, that assumed that it is going to be America. I do not know that it is going to be America, it may be, it may not be, I have no idea, I do not know, I do not know. We do not know, you do not know.
COMMENT: You got me lost, that we are going to come back, that the sons of God...
PASTOR VITALE: I said that the Israel of God is going to appear as a legitimate nation under a righteous head, I do not know where it will be. Israel was great and it came down, Great Britain was the leader of the world, we still are the leader of the world deteriorating, this nation may be rebuilt or it may be some place else, do not know.
COMMENT: That is why I saw a connection, Jerusalem and USA...
PASTOR VITALE: Xxxx, give it up, please for your sake, give it up, please put your pride away. I want to see you enter in, please, just let it go, let it go. We do not know where it is going to happen, or where it is going to be, but what we need to focus on is that it is going to be, and that there is no such thing as hopelessness for the people of God, I do not care what it looks like, you know. I never use to understand this, I remember a long time ago, there was a plane that was hijacked and there was a picture blasted all over tv, of the pilot looking out of the window of these hijackers walking up and down the plane, and he was thumbs up or the victory like this, with a big smile on his face, he was a Christian, the pilot, and I thought, is that not stupid, you have hijackers walking up and down the isles of the plane. You can say, Jesus is going to be victorious, or you can say, I am scared, what is your choice you know, you might as well say, Jesus is going to be victorious, victory, you have two choices. Maybe, I cannot even tell you that I would prefer that the Israel, that the manifestation of the Israel of God would be the United States, how can you say that you would prefer it to be the United States, if you do not know what the other possibility is? How do we know, all I know is that whatever God does is good, and that whatever happens, I am going to be okay, whoever has faith in Him is going to be okay. It may be the United States, I do not know, but I am trying to liberate you from your carnal mind, we do not know.
We need to be able to stay open, because if we get into our head that this is the way that it is, then we are not open to the truth when it comes our way. That is what happened to Israel, they expected Messiah to appear in a certain form, and when He appeared in a different form, they could not receive Him. It is happening today, the church expects the second coming to happen in a certain way, and they cannot believe that this is the second coming, this message, this message coming out of me, and whoever else is preaching it is the second coming, they cannot believe it.
I do not want anybody here to fall into that trap, you have to break those shells off of your mind, and stand neutral until you hear from God, there are legitimate conclusions that you can make, you have to resist these prideful conclusions of your carnal mind. Anybody else?
COMMENT: So there will be a national spiritual conception and a national physical conception.
PASTOR VITALE: Yes, and I hope it is the U.S. but you have to careful, are you hoping that it is, why am I hoping that it is the U.S.? Well it would be nice if it is the U.S. The bottom line is that we do not want to make a desire for it to be the USA, to start to arise out of pride. Whatever God does is going to be good. The chance, personally I think there is a chance that it may be, but I cannot tell you that it definitely will be, and what is in my mind right now, and maybe this is a witness of the Lord, it is okay to say that if the Lord told you that.
This is what is in my heart right now, so I believe it is coming from the Lord, the first time that the United States rose, it rose as this physical child on this board, and then it is going to rise again, wherever the nation will rise again, it is going to arise again as an internalized Christ, so it may be United States collapsing, and then a new birth coming forth from it again, do you hear what I am saying? But, it should not matter, do you understand, it should not matter, it should not be pride in the United States to such a degree that we cannot hear what the Lord is saying about His program.
If it is, it is wonderful, and if it is not, wherever it is, it will be wonderful, and if we are close to Him, by faith, we are going to be wonderful, that is all that matters. I tell you that about this ministry all of the time. I am happy that you are grateful to be here, and that you are happy to be here, but do not lift up the ministry, the Lord, as we go into pride, the Lord will take His anointing and He will put it someplace else, worship God, worship God everybody. God bless you.