Part 2 of 4 Parts
This Message Has Been Transcribed And Edited For
Clarity, Continuity Of Thought, And Punctuation By
The LEM Transcribing & Editing Team.
Well, let me tell you this, that we found out -- when we did the prophecy -- we found out that what Daniel 8 is talking about is the fall of man. We found out -- well, we found out that there’s only some skeletal information given in Genesis about how man fell. It’s a story about Adam and Eve and a serpent, and it’s really a parable, because we know that the creation is spiritual, and we know that something really deep must’ve happened at the beginning of time for mankind to find himself in the condition that he’s in today. And for years I knew that it had to be hidden in the Bible somewhere, and we now find out that it’s hidden in Daniel 8.
So we found out that what happens at the beginning of time was that God made a creation, and the creation was not yet permanent, and the Lord likens it to forming a vase out of clay, it’s not permanent until you bake it, OK? The same thing goes with forming a glass. They put the glass into the fire and soften it, and the glass isn’t permanent until you form it and the glass becomes hard. The creation was formed, the Lord said it was good, but it was not permanent, it was changeable, it could break. Now by the time the Lord gets through with His plan for us, we will be perfect; we will be unbreakable; we will be incapable of falling, but at the beginning of time the creation was not yet baked in the oven, and it was capable of breaking.
And it had several parts to it, the creation didn’t look like us, it was a spiritual creation, didn’t have bodies yet. And we found out in Daniel 8 that it had two laws in it. Now Paul said when he tries to do good he finds another law in his members. So a law is a spirit, a law is a spirit, a ruling spirit.
The creation had two laws in it, one was Christ and one was Satan. And we found out through our studies -- we’ve been in these deep studies for five years -- that the spirit of God was mixed together with the dust of the earth, and there was a pestilence of the dust of the earth, and her name was Satan. And the reason the Lord let her be there was that it’s the intention of God to be seen. God is a spirit, He has no form and He has no shape, He’s invisible, He’s the invisible God, but He is determined to be seen. And the way He is determined to be seen is to cover Himself with the darkness of the earth. And the darkness of the earth has a pestilence in it.
So God made a creation, and He mixed the spirit of His Son together with the dust of the earth, with the pestilence in it, and He said to His Son rule over the pestilence. I’ve made a creation, I’ve called it man, it’s the spirit of My life, but You’re mixed together with the earth because I want to be seen. Now rule the earth.
So there were two laws in the creation called Adam, one was Christ, and one was Satan, and Christ was ruling. And we found out that as long as Christ was in control of the whole creation, the creation was righteous -- and we have 10 three-hour messages on this -- and then something happened, Satan no longer submitted to Christ’s authority. She had a thought in her mind that was different from her Lord, righteous Adam. And she separated out from him, and was -- rebelled against him. And that thought, that rebellion in her mind, materialized in the form of a goat. Now these are just symbols. These are just symbols.
The ram typified the righteous creation, with two horns. Horns in the Scripture typified power. One source of power was the Father through His Christ, and the other source of power was the pestilence in the earth. But the ram is a clean animal, and it typified the righteous creation because Christ had a reign on the pestilence in the earth, and was using it -- and the -- what Jesus likens it to -- hi -- is the -- is man capturing a beast of burden, horses were wild stallions running through this -- galloping through this countryside, at one point. Now horses are domesticated, and they serve man, and that is how the Lord explains Satan to us.
God had a function for her. She was part of that which is making the creation visible, but Christ was ins- -- righteous Adam was instructed to ride her, to rule her, to not let her out, not to let her be separate. If you’ve ever taken any horseback riding lessons, you will know that they will teach you, you must be one with the horse, you must be one with the animal. Well the animal got out from underneath righteous Adam, and appeared, and the Scripture symbolizes it as a goat.
First there was a ram -- just one animal, and then all of a sudden there was a goat. Satan didn’t want to take orders from the Christ, she wanted to be her own person, and she got out. And then we found out that when she got out, she wasn’t equal to righteous Adam, but she was really stronger than him, and she killed him. And as you read down in Daniel 8 you see first there was a ram, then there was a ram and a goat, and then there was just a goat. And righteous Adam fell, and the creation fell, and Satan became the god of the creation. Is she not the prince of the power of the air? Paul tells us that. She’s the god of this fallen creation.
So as we have been studying -- we also did Daniel 7 -- we find out that as we get into the interpretation more information is imparted, confirmation of the prophecy is imparted, and more information is imparted. So that’s what we’re up to now. We found out that Daniel received the vision, he asked for more information, the Father, God, sent Gabriel to him and said help this man, this carnal minded man, to understand the spiritual truth of this prophecy. Because, brethren, we know that there is a carnal interpretation of every prophecy in the Bible. There are many books -- look, there is only one truth. No Scripture is subject to private interpretation, everybody knows that, but there’s all kinds of books -- go into a bookstore, everybody’s got something to say about prophecy.
Now somewhere, somehow at some time, the Lord has got to be bringing through His truth, and the only way you’re going to know which is the truth is when the spirit of God witnesses it to you. As I’ve told you before, I’m here, I’ll present the truth to you; you’ve got to get before God. And it sounds wild, the story sounds wild. I want to tell you the truth of God’s word is wild. To the carnal mind it sounds way out, but as God witnesses it to you it’s life to your bones.
And I heard someone say -- someone quoted a Scripture today, they quoted Jesus saying to His disciples, “Will you go away too?” And I remind you that at least 500 -- I think the scripture says 500 went away, and all Jesus said to them is you must eat my flesh, and drink my blood. And they didn’t understand what He was saying. They thought He was talking about cannibalism, and they walked away. And Jesus turned to His disciples and He said, “Will you go away too?” And I want to tell you that people go away from this world because they don’t understand it, and they think it’s blasphemy, and they think it’s way out, and they think it’s sin, and they think it’s corruption, and all I’m asking you to do is don’t run, just pray about it, because it’s shocking when Jesus said to those people you must eat my flesh and drink my blood, they were shocked! They couldn’t believe that He would say such a thing. They were shocked. It’s the truth, how I shock people all the time. Sometimes they attack me. They’re so upset that they attack me. Well please don’t attack me, but if you’re upset, you’re free to express your distress and I’ll try to help you. OK. What did you say?
I said I wonder what you’re going to teach on if you put that much of a wall up and a defense before the meeting started.
OK. Well it’s not re- --
Oh well, it’s not really defensed, whether you believe it or not I’m really concerned about you, and I would like you to get whatever God has for you. That wasn’t a defense. It wasn’t a defense, I’m trying to help you. OK?
[?A parody?], right?
Yeah. Well some peo- -- you know, I find that communication is very important, and some people they get upset and they think it’s just them, and then they just run and I never hear from them again. So I tell everybody that comes here, it’s not just you, please communicate with me. If you want to scream, scream; just don’t hit me. OK.
Alternate Translation, Daniel 8, this is verses 17 and 18. “And when I understood that God was communicating with me through a vision, I asked for understanding, and there it was, a mature spiritual being materialized in front of me. And between the time that I asked to understand the vision and the time that the spiritual warrior appeared, I heard a voice crying out saying Gabriel, enlighten this human mind with spiritual sight. Now I was in the deep sleep, which exists in the earth of fallen Adam’s carnal mind, when Gabriel rushed to pardon me, unexpectedly, and lay on top of my carnal mind. And as he started” -- now that means he crushed his carnal mind so that he couldn’t think with it. “And as he started speaking with me the foundation of God’s city, the New Jerusalem, began to appear in the earth of my mind, and because the promises of God are about to bring this prison age to an end, He showed me a descendant had fallen out of me, carnal man. Gabriel showed me how to distinguish between Christ and the carnal mind, and I began to ascend into heaven because of Christ’s righteousness. And Gabriel said look, I’ll help you to understand that the end of God’s punishment upon mankind is the reconciliation of the whole creation unto God.”
Now I’d like to point out to you here that we have a lot of people thinking that God is about to punish the human race through destructive judgment that will bring an end to this world. And I want to point out to you that the Scripture says the condition that we are in now is the punishment of God. As I’ve told you many times the carnal minds of man reverse -- they reverse truth. What is for now, they think it’s for the future. The carnal mind keeps mixing everything up. The punishment of God is upon us now. We’re in the punishment of God; it’s upon us. This is hell, this is it right here, and what’s coming is the judgment that will bring deliverance from the judg- -- from the punishment that we’re in now.
And I’ll briefly remind you that what we’re in now is the judgment which is mediated by Satan. It is a judgment called reaping and sowing that can end in your destruction, and this is eternal torment. The destruction that you sow goes down on your family line unto the third and fourth generation, but the judgment of Jesus Christ is a judgment that restores, it’s a judgment that corrects, it’s a judgment that destroys sin and brings forth righteousness in you. Satan cannot bring forth righteousness in you, all he can do is kill you. And this is the judgment that was our natural Israel, if you were an adulterer, they killed you. They did not have the spiritual authority to convert your heart as Jesus did with the adulteress women. He said go and sin no more. And we looked up all of those words in the Greek, and we found out that what Jesus really did was touch this woman’s heart and bring a conversion of her heart that would enable her to obey Him. He healed her from her adulteress heart. That’s why he let her go. Jesus never broke the law. If someone was legally guilty under the law, if Jesus didn’t have the authority to change their heart not to sin again, He would’ve had to kill them. Jesus had -- has come with the authority to change men’s hearts, so that the judgment does not have to kill them. God is not pardoning wicked, sinful men. God is a righteous God, every sin shall have its just recompense. And the soul that sins, it will surely die. But when Jesus comes, He changes your heart and gives you an ability to keep the law so that you can live. So this is God’s punishment, we’re in it now, the judgment that’s coming is going to reconcile the whole creation unto God.
Going on with verses 20 and 21. These two verses should be read together, so I’m going to do that for you. Going to read them together. “The ram which thou sawest having two horns are the kings of Media and Persia. And the rough goat is the king of Grecia: and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king.” Now what I’m suggesting to you is that this verse is saying -- let me read it for you again with a different intonation. “The ram which you saw, the two horned ram, typifies the kings of Media and Persia. And the rough goat is the king of Grecia: and the great horn that’s in the head of the rough goat is the first king.” The ram which thou -- the two horned ram which you saw, and the king of Greece with the horn in the middle of his head, together, they’re the first king. And I’m going to go into this in detail, but I’ll tell you what I’m getting at, I’m suggesting to you that they typify the first Adam. We know the first Adam was a living soul and the last Adam was a quickening spirit. So I’ll go into that in more detail.
OK. I told you all this already. OK. Please note that the words, that is, and, the great horn that is between his eyes, if you look it up in the lexicon it can be translated, who is, and I’m suggesting to you that the great horn between the eyes of the king of Greece is Satan’s carnal mind. It’s a who; it’s not an it. It’s a who; it’s not an it. It’s a person. If you remember our previous teaching, the goat had the notable horn between his eyes and what he had was a vision, and we’ve talked about this too.
Everything that appears in this world starts out as a thought. Somebody’s thought brings it to pass. Here in this fallen world if we want something we go out and we go to work, we earn the money, or however -- someone gives it to us, we get it, but when our high spiritual mind wants something, it thinks and it appears. It thinks and it appears. There was a vision in the goat’s mind, and the vision was that she would rule this world. She had a vision, this whole world that you see it was the vision that started out as a thought in Satan’s mind. She brought it to pass; it materialized. God had a thought in His mind, God had an imagination, and Adam was born and he was in the Garden of Eden. When our high spiritual mind thinks, it materializes. In our fallen condition -- the example we gave was a painting. If you’re an artist, or an inventor, you have an idea for something, you get all of your materials together: your paint, your canvas, your brushes, and the thought that’s in your mind, you paint it and your idea is on canvas. If you’re in advertising on Madison Avenue, everything is ideas. You’re paid to get ideas, to put it on canvas, to put it on the TV, and then it sells products to people. Satan had a vision in her mind, she didn’t want to be the lesser horn, she didn’t want to be under righteous Adam’s authority. She had a vision that she was going to be god of the world. And the way she made herself god of the world was by bringing forth her carnal mind. She had an idea and it came to pass.
Let me read you this verse again. The two-horned ram which thou sawest, which are the kings of Media and Persia. And the rough goat, which is the king of Grecia, the one with the great horn that’s between his eyes, the one with the big, big ideas in his mind -- what’s between your eyes? It’s your mind -- are corporately together. They are the king, which is the forefather of humanity as we know it now. My notes are out of place, but that phrase in the verse, the first king, that word, first, if you look it up in the Hebrew, it can be translated, forefather, I’ll show that to you a little further on.
So what this is saying, the kings of Media and Persia, the kings of Greece, the one with the horn in his head, together, they’re the first Adam. And we found a witness to this in Daniel 7, when we did Daniel 7 word by word talking about the four beasts, we found out that the first three beasts typified the fallen creation, the original creation, and the fourth beast, which was diverse from all the rest, typified the glorified Christ. So we see the same witness here, these first three kings are typifying the original creation including the fall. And I have a witness for you, 1 Corinthians 15:45, “And so it is written, The first man Adam was mad a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.”
So those first three kings are typifying the first Adam. The first king was in two stages. First, righteous Adam with two laws in his mind that I told you about, is typified by Media and Persia. And the second stage is fallen Adam, with only one law in his mind, because the carnal mind had destroyed the law of Christ. Starting with verse 20, “The ram which thou sawest, having two horns are the kings of Media and Persia. “ The word ram is a ram, we’ve studied that many times, it just means a ram. But remember that we found out that the ram typifies the two-horned animal life that the Scripture calls the living soul. The word saw, that -- if it means what it says, I’m just going past it. And I have some comments for you on Media and Persia. Unger’s Bible dictionary tells us that Media was noted for its horses, and Israel, I remind you, is the horse of the Lord. Sargon II captured and invaded Samaria in 721 BC, and imported Israelites into the towns of the Meads. So Media was heavily populated by captured Israelites. Media dominated Persia for a season, but eventually the two nations became a dual nation. Now isn’t that what I just told you? There was a creation with two laws, Christ and Satan. Christ dominated, Media dominated for a season, but eventually they became equal. That’s what Unger’s Bible dictionary just said. I’m suggesting to you that Media and Persia is typifying original [INAUDIBLE] with ITS laws. They started out with Christ ruling, and then Satan exalted herself and they became equal. Everybody OK?
We know that captive idolatress Hebrews were present in Media, and I’m suggesting to you that Media/Persia typifies the dual tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Or we can say the first Adam, after he fell in his mind, but still dominated Satan. Adam fell in his mind. He fell in his mind before he lost control of Satan. I preached this to you before. A couple can get divorced, they’ve got to be separated in their mind. You don’t just wake up one morning and separate physically, the separation has to come in your mind. Adam fell in his mind before he actually lost control of Satan.
Alternate Translation, Daniel 8:20. “The souled animal life typified by the ram, which you saw” -- now this is Gabriel talking to Daniel -- “The souled animal life, which you saw, had two spiritual laws in his mind, Christ and Satan. And Christ’ spiritual authority was stronger than Satan’s spiritual authority, until Satan made herself a male.” Now we’ve done a lot of talking here about spiritual manhood. The Scripture says there’s no male or female in Christ Jesus, what does that mean? It means when Christ is being revealed through your mind, you are male whether your body is male or whether your body is female, Christ, wherever He is appearing, is the highest authority. And if Christ is appearing in a vessel that is a physical woman, that woman has become a spiritual male for as long as Christ is appearing in her mind. That’s how the Scripture can say a woman should be silent in the church.
A spiritual woman is one who -- in whom their carnal mind is ruling them. When Christ appears, even when He appears in a donkey, we’re supposed to submit to that spirit that’s on that person. So the creation had two authorities, Christ and Satan. Christ was given the headship by the Father, and that makes Satan a spiritual female in relationship to Christ. She was to be in submission to Him, but she rebelled against her God-given position, she came out and made herself equal to Him, therefore the spiritual reality is that she exalted herself to the level of male. In those days they didn’t have bodies like we have now. Male, maleness, manhood meant the one who was strong, the one who ruled, the one who took authority, it had nothing to -- there were no bodies. Femaleness indicated the one who submitted. Satan was in the [?female role?], came out, made herself equal to Christ. He let her out.
Going on with verse 21. “And the rough goat is the king of Grecia: and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king.” Rough goat is Strong’s 81 -- well the word rough is Strong’s 81:63, and the word goat is Strong’s 68:42. Now when we did Daniel 8:5, and I looked up this phrase in the Interlinear, we found out that the Interlinear had more words than the King James had. The interlinear says, “A male, or a he-goat of the she-goats.” And when I taught you verse 5, I didn’t really get the full implication that when the Scripture says a he-goat of the she-goats, it was saying that this goat was really a female that had made itself a male. A he-goat of the she-goats. He was a he-goat of the she-goats, he was supposed to be female.
So as we get into verse 21, we find the Hebrew word translated rough in place of the Hebrew word she-goat. So in verse 21 the Scripture says, “a rough he-goat,” no longer a he-goat out of the she-goats, but now he’s a rough he-goat. There’s nothing about she-goat at all. He -- she -- Satan has become a male. And the way he became a male -- how did he become a male? He defeated his authority. Remember now, the female is the one who submits. The female is the one who’s under authority. Satan came up out from under that authority and Satan did not -- I’m sorry -- and Christ did not put down the rebellion, that is how Satan became a male. Anybody not know what I’m talking about? Male is positional, it’s positional, even in this society.
We’ve had a lot of teaching here of what’s going on in this country today. We have many men that are spiritual women, many women that are spiritual men, and many children that are becoming spiritual adults. You can’t tell by people’s bodies anymore what they are. Female is the submissive one. We have marriages where the person in the male body is the submissive one, and the person in the female body is ruling the marriage. This is role reverse. And if you’re a man and your wife is dominating you, you have fallen like Adam -- like righteous Adam fell. You have fallen down from the spiritual authority that God has given you, and you have to get a hold of God and by His strength, stand up and start ruling. Because when you come to God to fix up your life, whatever your problem is, the first thing He’s going to say to you is get into your right role, if you can hear Him, that’s the first thing He’s going to say to you. If you’re a woman and you’re married and you’re running the family, He’s going to say to you start submitting to your husband. If you’re a man and your wife is running the family, the first thing He’s going to say to you is stand up on your feet and take over your family. You have to do it in a godly way.
First He deals with your family, then He deals with your extended family, then He deals with your problems on your job, and you keep getting stronger and stronger and stronger. When God comes to you, brethren, He intends to make you strong. Amen. There’s no weakness in Christ. Weakness in a believer is something that must be dealt with and done away with, it is not -- it does not glorify God. So the first thing we do is we have to find out who we are in this world, what He has for us, where He’s sending us, what He requires of us, and then we start to wage the war that builds Christ in us and that gives us the strength to overcome in a godly manner, and start to rule from a position that Christ has given us.
Now don’t start ruling where you don’t have authority. OK? Get a hold of God, find out where you have authority, and start walking in it. Start at the beginning, a step at a time, left, right, left, right, and if you fall down confess it and repent, He’ll pick you up and He’ll give you another chance. Start ruling over your own mind. Start ruling over your own weaknesses. Christ in you must arise and give you strength to overcome your own carnal mind, and defeat the weaknesses in your life that have tried to destroy you. The weaknesses in your own soul that have tried to wipe you off of this earth. Christ is come to be a new mind, a new conscience, and your worst enemy is in your own mind, your own carnal mind.
Walking with Christ is a warfare, it’s a warfare, brethren; it’s not a party. It’s not a give me party. Because I want to tell you, if it was a give me party, if the Lord gave you everything you -- whatever it is you want. What do you want, a house, a car? What is it that you want? You’re still going to be that same weak person that’s going to keep falling down wherever you go. You must get strong. You must get strong. And sometimes God lets us suffer a little because that’s what we need to make us strong. Maybe we don’t have as much money as we would like. Maybe somebody hurt us. Whatever we need to get strong -- if you are sold out to God, whatever you need to get strong is in your life. Sometimes it looks like Satan, but it’s not, it’s God. It’s God. You must get strong. You must get strong, and you will, in Christ. He is your strength. Glory to God.
So we’re talking about the rough goat. The same Hebrew word that’s translated rough in Daniel 8:21, is also translated devils, believe it or not it’s in the book. It’s in the Hebrew dictionary. The same Hebrew word translated rough, is translated devils. And Leviticus 17:7 and in II Chronicles 11:15, and it is used in those verses to describe the he-goat idols, which the Hebrews worshiped. There -- the -- one of the gods of Egypt is a he-goat idol, and when the Jews left Egypt they took this idol with them.
So what is the hidden message of this prophecy telling us? He’s telling us that Satan not only came out from her female role and made herself a male, but she became an idol. Now what does that mean? First of all, let me remind you that what’s happening here in Daniel 8:21 is a fulfillment of Ephesian’s 3:9 and 10, I believe we spoke about this at the last message, but let me read you the verses. “And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ. To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church, the manifold wisdom of God.” Brethren, the church is going to preach the manifold wisdom of God to the powers and principalities. Who are the powers and principalities? What are they? I’ve been preaching here for a long time, brethren, these Scriptures must be made real to us. They cannot continue to be a fantasy of something that’s happening in some faraway place. Brethren, the Scripture is the message of the Lord, Jesus Christ, to humanity. It is a message of our condition. It is a message which tells us who we are and what our problems are, to what end? So that we can be delivered out from the hell of this existence. Brethren, the powers and the principalities -- I did a word study on it. It is the basic building blocks of our fallen personality.
Does not the Scripture say that Jesus is a foundation? Every one of us that exists must have a spiritual foundation, and we are fallen. Jesus is not the foundation of the fallen man, but the powers and principalities of this world system are the foundation upon which fallen man is built, and their name is Satan, Eve and the carnal mind, and they are in our minds. They are in our minds, but Jesus is come that we may have -- [UNINTELLIGIBLE] our death. Jesus is come that we may have life, and He has come with a new foundation, Because only the person in whom the foundation of Christ is laid is going to go on to eternal life.
So what we’re talking about is the idol. Now how could Satan be an idol? What I’m suggesting to you is that the true idol is in our hearts. The true idol, the true idolatry, is self-worship. We’ve had several messages on this, self-preservation, self-worship, it’s the condition of the fallen man. We’re all like that, maybe some to a greater degree than others, but we’re vulnerable, we’re weak, we need food, we need clothing, we need sustenance from outside of us to live. We need shelter from the cold, or we need food and water, and affection, or we will die. That is because we are fallen. Brethren, when we are raised from the dead, everything we need will be within us. We will be self-sustaining. The Christ that is dwelling within us will provide. If we need -- brethren, there is not a doubt in my mind that if, God forbid, there is an atom attack upon this nation, and every shelter is demolished, that those of us in whom Christ is dwelling will warm us from within.
I don’t know whether you know it or not, but what they -- what the scientists say is that in an atom attack, one of the symptoms will be cold. It will be very cold. I preach it, I’m burning up from the heat, I want to tell you our God has to power to warm you from within. He has the power to feed you from within. He has the power to protect you from the elements from within. He can do it, and He fully intends to do it, but He has to build Himself into you. When you receive the Holy Ghost, you receive the seed, you receive the mustard seed. It must grow, it must prosper; it must increase for you to become all that you could be in Christ.
There are principles in the Bible, one of the principles in the Bible is that God starts with seed. Some people think He created the whole creation all at once, no, God sowed the seeds. We’re still being created. It’s -- the information is around us everywhere. How does a baby come forth? The seed is sown. The baby grows for nine months, the baby is born. Everything God does -- when you see Him start a ministry -- did you ever see Him start a ministry with 1,000 people in a big fancy building? They always start small, it’s a principle of the Scripture. God starts with seed, and it grows, and He has sown His seed in the earth, and He fully intends to bring forth a harvest.
Now many people think that the harvest is going out and getting new, unregenerate men to the kingdom, brethren, I challenge you to look up that word in the Greek and in the English lexicons that is not what harvest is. Harvest is the separation of the fully ripe fruit from the vine. You cannot separate the fully ripe fruit from the vine until you have fully ripe fruit growing on your vine. And if you don’t have a vine, you’ve really got a problem. Amen?
Jesus is the -- He is the true vine. If there is a true vine there must be a false vine. If you have a false vine, you will produce false fruit, inedible fakes, and when the judgment comes there will be nothing in you to survive the fire. Christ must be in you, His seed must be in you, His vine must be in you, and His fruit must be in you before it can be harvested. It’s the fruit in you that is being harvested. It is the full grown, mature fruit that will be harvested from these vile, fallen bodies that are prison houses. Everything He’s doing, He’s doing it in you. He wants to bring us up to where He is, not by catching our body up, but by changing us from the inside out. “To he that overcometh, I will give.” “To he that overcometh, I will give.” It’s a warfare from the day He enters into our mind. It’s a warfare to take us over from the carnal mind who’s ruling us.
So what are we saying here? That Satan not only became a male, but she became an idol. Let me explain that to you. The true idol as typified by Nebuchadnezzar’s statue is carved out of the dead wood of the living soul. The living soul is typified by a tree in the Scripture. It’s the tree that was cut down in the earlier chapters of Daniel. It’s the tree stump that we’re told about in the book of Job where he says, is it possible for this tree that’s cut down to grow again? To rise again? And we’re told in the book of Job, yes at the scent of water, when the spirit of God approaches it, that it will put forth a shoot and this tree will live again.
We are the tree of the knowledge of good and evil that was alive at the beginning of time, because the good was ruling it. Christ was ruling it, but the evil got out and it caused the whole tree to fall down and die. So the idol that the goat is, is his nature engraved in the wood of the living soul and his nature engraved in the gold of the human spirit.
So what is this saying? Satan got out, made herself a male, destroyed Christ and engraved her image on the creation. In other words the creation was righteous Adam, ruled by the Father through his Christ, the creation became fallen Adam ruled by Satan through the carnal mind. The same creation, different god flowing through it. It’s the same thing as saying -- I have that pitcher in my refrigerator, if you’ve gone in for water you’ve seen it, it’s a big pitcher. You just pull out the spigot, I can have water in there, I can have soda in there, I can have beer in there, I can have whiskey in there; we are the container, and the life that was in us from the beginning of time changed. The righteousness of God was destroyed, and the sin of Satan and our carnal mind, filled us.
And now in this hour Jesus is come to take that, the original creation, that which was His from the beginning of time. He’s going to drain us of the sin that fills us, and restore us with His righteousness. We are the bottles from heaven. We are the bottles from heaven, and right now we’re filled with bitter wine.
So the Scripture in verse 21 is saying that Satan started out in a position subordinate to Christ, as a she-goat, elevated herself to a position equal to Christ, as a he-goat, and then made herself superior to Christ by birthing our carnal mind, which is the image, or the idol, of Satan in the mind of the creation. So you see, many of us read the Scriptures and we say well an idolater will never get into heaven, well that leaves me out, because I don’t pray to Mary anymore, and I don’t have any statues in my house, so I can get past that one. But, brethren, I want to tell you the idol is the engraving that’s on your heart. You’re worried about the mark of the beast? Don’t worry about getting the mark of the beast, you’ve already got it, you were born with it. This mark must be erased. You must receive the mark of God. The nature of God must be engraved on your heart. And before the nature of God can be engraved on your heart, the nature of Satan must be erased. This is the function of the judgment, to erase the nature of Satan from your heart. And whereas you are the image of Satan, or the idol of the beast to the image of the beast engraved in your heart, you shall be a cherubim that is over the mercy seat of the house that belongs to God. Halleluiah.
Now I want to talk a little bit more about the seed. I mentioned the seed a little earlier, and I want to take a few minutes to speak about the anointing that was on the creation at the beginning and how it differed -- not so much the anointing, but the formation of the creation at the beginning of time and how it differed from the creation as it’s going to be at the end of the time. Now I told you, at the beginning, the creation was capable of falling. When God finishes with us, we will not be capable of falling, and in a very simple way this is the difference between the two formations. The creation at the beginning of time had no root. The creation at the end of time will have a root that will go down deep. There is Scriptures in the prophets about the tree who’s going to put her roots down deep, she’s going to be deep by the waters, and she’ll never be moved.
So let me give you some Scriptures on this. Matthew 13:6, “And when the sun was up, they were scorched because they had no root. They withered away.” Matthew 13:20,21, “But he that receive the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word and anon with joy receiveth it.” The church world is filled with people that are filled with joy and happiness, and hearing the word of God, and being touched by the Holy Spirit. “Yet have he not root in himself, but dureth a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.” Brethren, we have a whole church world filled with people that have received the seed and then have produced the flower, but have not put down roots.
The message of the hour is that Jesus wants you to put down roots, because if you don’t put down deep roots, when the storms of tribulation blow, you will not stand. You will not stand. He’s not saying He wants you to blow away, the word of the hour is put down roots; He wants you to stand. He wants you to stand. OK? So we have a church world filled with people that have received the Holy Ghost, that have been recipients of the gifts of the spirit, that love the Lord, that love His word, but they haven’t heard yet that you’ve got to put down the roots. And how do you put down the roots? Well let’s think of a garden plant, you put the seed in the ground. OK? Jesus came, He put the seed in your ground; He’s in there. What happens next? The seed sprouts, right? You water it, the outpouring of the spirit. The seed sprouts, and you see a little seedling pops up above the ground, and that’s what we’re seeing in the churches today. But that seed has to put down roots deep into the ground. And the way it’s happening in human beings is that that Holy Spirit must join with us. The Holy Spirit is flowing through us, it’s flowing over us, and it’s blessing us, but if we’re going to stand when the storms come, it’s got to join with something in us, and it’s not joining with our ears, and it’s not joining with our feet, it’s joining with something in our spiritual anatomy.
We are female in relationship to God, whether you have a male or a female body, we are the bride of Christ; we are all female in relationship to God. And when He comes to us by His Spirit, He wants to join with us, and He’s joining with us in that part of us that is like Him. We are in the likeness of God, in that He is spirit and we are spirit. And His Holy Spirit is coming to us, flowing over us, flowing through us, giving us blessings, giving us gifts, but He’s got one purpose in His mind, He wants to join with that part of us that is like Him. The seed of the Holy Spirit wants to join with that which is spiritual in us and put down roots. Because when He joins with us, there’s going to be an offspring, and it is going to be the very life of the Son in us. The Holy Spirit leads us to Christ, and there’s no way we can get to the Father except by Christ. It’s a procedure. It’s a step at a time. It’s a little bit here, and a little bit there. The Holy Ghost -- the receiving of the Holy Ghost is the first step. He’s got to bring forth Christ in you, and to bring forth Christ in you, He’s got to join with you. And after Christ comes forth in you, Christ will direct you to the Father, which is spirit. We’re going to be completely spiritualized. We’re going to be spirit, which is our original source.
So we find in Jesus’ own parable that there are believers that are going to receive the seed, they’re going to hear the word, they’re going to be filled with the joy of God, but when the test comes they’re going to find out that they have no root in them. Now I’m not a preacher that wants to scare you. The word of the Lord is, if you’re not sure that you’re rooted down, tell the Lord you want to be rooted down. It’s real simple. Don’t argue with me whether or not you have it, just say, Lord, if I don’t have it, give it to me. If there’s any possibility that she knows what she’s talking about, I want it. Alright? I used to be in a church where the preacher used to say we cast out demons here, don’t worry if you have no demons, nothing’s going to come out. If I don’t know what I’m talking about you haven’t lost anything. Pray for it. Halleluiah.
So we see two words from the Lord, one in Matthew 13:6, “When the sun was up they were scorched.” The plant that didn’t have a root was scotched and withered, and what is the sun? The sun -- who is the sun of our righteousness? Christ is our sun. Christ is the sun of our righteousness. Amen. He’s coming forth in us, and He’s coming forth with great heat. And what does that mean to us? It means tribulation. The heat of God means tribulation. And if that measure of Christ that you have can’t stand the persecution, you’re going to fall away. People backslide all the time. Why? No roots. No roots. No roots. You’ve got to put down your roots. There are many flowers that come up on the ground that you just pluck them right up, they have no roots. Which are the flowers that have the deepest, toughest roots? Who’s a gardener here?
Dandelion. Weeds! Weeds! The [?tears?]. Your carnal mind is down deep. Deep. Going to take a miracle to get your carnal mind out, and then Christ comes along, and He’s a little flower on the surface, and the wind blows, you’re out the door. Persecution will cause you to backslide if you haven’t put down roots. Now listen, if you’re hearing this message and you’ve experienced backsliding, don’t go out and say Sheila has condemned you, I haven’t, I’ve told you why you backslid. So get on your face before God, and say I want roots. Amen?
So when the sun comes up, when Christ arises, you can fall away, or when tribulation arises, you could fall away. So when Christ in you arises to judge your soul, you won’t stand, or if the persecution comes from the outside you won’t stand. You’ve got to have roots. You’ve got to have roots. That’s likened to building your house on a rock foundation, if you don’t have roots you’re standing on sand, there’s nothing to hold you down. You’re going to be one of those little plants that Satan’s just going to come along and go, pluck, pluck. Now I want to tell you, if He has to dig you up -- if it takes what it takes to dig up a dandelion, he’s going to go right past you and go to the next guy that’s any easy touch. Did you every try to dig up a dandelion? It’s a nightmare. Halleluiah.
Continuing with the second half of Daniel 8:21, “And the rough goat is the king of Grecia.” King of Grecia, 31:20. King of Greece. Greece is the nation in the natural, and in our history books, which concurred Media/Persia. Greece typifies Satan’s carnal mind, which broke the bones of the righteous mind of Christ. Remember what I said? We had a creation, Christ was ruling, Satan was subordinate, Satan mad herself male, brought forth her carnal mind, and the carnal mind was stronger than Christ and killed Him, broke up His bones, that’s the way the Scripture expresses it, broke up His bones.
Now you may be wondering how Satan could’ve possibly killed Christ. At the beginning He was -- didn’t have any roots. He wasn’t finished yet, the creation was good, it was not completed; it was not perfect. He didn’t have roots; it was just the beginning. And God warned Him, He said don’t let Satan out because this is what’s going to happen. And the way we’ve described it here, the way the Lord showed it to us, is that the creation at the beginning was an atom.
Atoms have nucleus, they have protons and neutrons, and the nucleus. And they have orbits around them, and these orbits have electrons in them. And a stable atom would be an atom that if it was bombarded with all kinds of nuclear material there would be nothing in it that could absorb another electron. For example, a sponge that is soaking wet, if you drop water on it the water will roll off of it, the sponge cannot hold any more liquid. But that was not the condition of the original creation. It wasn’t complete. God set everything in place, He formed the vase, but it wasn’t baked yet. And what happened was, in a natural atom the protons and the neutrons are the positive charge, and the electrons out here are the negative charge, Satan was negative, and one of these electrons got up and got in here, and it all did, the whole nature of the creation. It all did, the nature of the whole creation. She got out of her place. She was an electron; she became a neutron, or a proton. She changed the whole thing. And what happened was that the creation appeared in this realm of appearance, in a form that we cannot -- we cannot live with it. And in the natural world we have babies being born with their stomachs hanging on the outside of their bodies, and they die. Brethren, in the spiritual condition that we’re in, we cannot continue, we’re dead. Jesus has to break apart -- break apart what? Our spiritual skeleton, the way we’re put together. It would be as if you were born with you head at the bottom of your hand, we can’t live this way. We are a spiritual perversion, and that’s why the judgment, He’s breaking us apart. Every ungodly joining in us must be broken apart; we must be put together in a way that we can have life, which, of course, includes Christ. He must be our God for us to live.
So Greece is the nation, in natural history, which conquered Media/Persia. Now Media/Persia, remember, was the creation where Christ was ruling over Satan, and Greece came typifying Satan coming out of her place, and she broke up Christ’s bones, she broke up the atom of the righteous -- the atom, A-T-O-M -- of the righteous Adam. God had everything in its place. Did you ever -- you ladies that sew -- did you ever have your pattern pieces all cut out, laying there, but you haven’t pinned them yet, and one of your children come along and knock the whole thing off the table? You have to set it up again? God had everything set in the perfect order, but it wasn’t made permanent, and Satan got out of her place. So Greece, the king of Greece typifies Satan, breaking up the bones of righteous Adam in whom Christ was ruling. Satan got in there, everything was laid out perfectly but it wasn’t cemented down, and Satan knocked everything out of line, and the creation fell. Typified by the king of Greece.
Alternate Translation, the third -- the first third of Daniel 8:21, “And Satan’s carnal mind was stronger than the Father’s immature Christ, and she broke Christ’s bones.” Now I want to point out to you right here that when Satan brought forth her carnal mind, she brought it forth with roots. She brought it forth with roots, and as we’ve studied in other messages, the way Satan brought forth her carnal mind was that she literally caused it to be born in the creation. She went in, she had a spiritual, sexual union with the fertile parts of the creation, and brought forth an offspring, the carnal mind, with roots.
So Christ, the formation of Christ at the beginning of time, was a temporary formation. The Father said to Adam don’t let anyone touch your fertile parts, don’t let Satan touch your fertile parts, I am going to join with the creation, she is My bride and I am going to bring forth a rooted manifestation of the Christ in this creation. But Satan got in there, and Satan got in there first, and she brought forth a rooted manifestation of the carnal mind. That’s why the carnal mind was stronger than the Christ. Can you hear me? There is a difference between the believer who has received the Holy Ghost, and it’s a flower, and the believer that has put down deep roots -- there is a difference. We’ve all got to put down deep roots. Satan went in there and put down deep roots. But the Christ that was in the creation was just the flower lying on the surface, and that’s why the carnal mind was stronger than the Christ. Can you hear that? The Christ had no roots, wasn’t rooted in yet, just temporarily laid out. Satan jumped up and got in there, and slept with the virgin before the Father did. Halleluiah.
And Satan’s carnal mind was stronger than the Father’s immature Christ, and she broke Christ’s bones. Continuing with the second third of Daniel 8:21. “And the great horn that is between his eyes,” meaning the great horn that’s between the eyes of the king of Greece, typifying Satan. Horns in the Scripture typify spiritual power, and the word great is Strong’s 1419.
Now as we’ve been doing these studies, we’ve found about three different Hebrew words translated great, each Hebrew word meaning something entirely different, but in the English translation of the King James, all three Hebrew words were translated, great. So the word that is tran- -- Hebrew word that is translated, great, in this Scripture is the word that appears in Daniel 8:8, where it’s translated, waxed great. Same Hebrew word.
Just to make a point here, the King James translators will take the same Hebrew word -- if you do a word study this is very common -- and translate it as much as five different ways throughout the Scriptures. Now they weren’t trying to hurt anybody, they were just trying to make sense out of the combination of words that they had, but we do have this problem both in the Hebrew and in the Greek, that it’s translated many different way in the Scripture.
So this word that’s translated, great, “And the great horn that is between his eyes,” was translated wax great in Daniel 8, where we found out that this word meant, high, and it’s used to describe a high priestess. Use high in the sense of high priest. And we found out by doing the whole verse 8 that this word was used to express the fact that Satan birthed her carnal mind in the creation, and made the carnal mind the high priest of the creation.
Now, is not Jesus our high priest? Jesus is our high priest, amen? Christ is our high priest. He who intercedes between us and God -- what Satan did was he literally stole the creation. He got in there, and he brought forth the high priest, the carnal mind, and what that means is he brought forth a rooted offspring. Remember what I said, Christ at the beginning was not rooted down, it was just a flower lying on the surface, no roots. The Father had not yet had a spiritual sexual intercourse with the creation. Satan got in there and brought forth the high priest of the creation, that which intercedes between man and the god Satan. But now in this hour, the Father is bringing forth His high priest in your heart, Jesus, and if you have Christ in your heart you have two high priests. You have two minds, you have to high priests, and there is a war going on between these high priests, between Christ and the carnal mind. And it’s the same war that was going on at the beginning of time, the only difference is that now Christ has roots, Lord willing, Christ has roots.
He’s got to have roots in you, ask the Father for it. It’s wonderful to have the gifts of the Holy Spirit, I love the gifts of the Holy Spirit; I love them. You’ve got to get roots. The Holy Spirit has a function in your life, it is to join with your human spirit and put down roots, so that nothing will move you. Nothing must move you. You must have roots. You must root down. Once you root down you will never backslide again.
So we’re dealing with the phrase, “And the great horn that is between his eyes,” so the great horn is talking about the carnal mind who has been born in the creation and is now the one that intercedes between God, Satan and the creation that is in the earth -- excuse me -- and Christ is out of the way. Satan has totally stolen the creation. “And the great horn that is between his eyes,” and as I told you earlier this should be translated, and the great horn, the one that is between his eyes, because the great horn that is in the mind of Satan is his carnal mind. “Between the eyes,” we studied this phrase in verse 5 where I gave you witnesses in other Scriptures proving to you that there are other places in the Scripture where this expression, “between the eyes,” means in the mind. This is the way the Lord expresses in the mind, in the Scripture. I don’t know why He says it that way, but He says it that way.
Some of you know that I have regular meeting with a Hasidic Rabbi who very much believes in the letter of the law, and they have some form of -- I don’t know what they call it, but it’s something that they wrap around their head when they do their ritualistic prayers. And they take that Scripture, “between the eyes,” and they tie it around their head on a string and it drops right down between their eyes, and they wear it. And they don’t understand that there’s a spiritual application -- God wants it inside of their mind, but their keeping the law, and they wear it right between their eyes in the forehead. But God’s talking about your mind.
Alternate Translation, second third of Daniel 8:21, “And the spiritual power of Satan’s mind penetrated Eve, and she conceived and gave birth to the carnal mind. And Satan made her carnal mind the high priest of the fallen creation.” And we have one more phrase in verse 21, it’s, “Is the first king” -- now please note that the phrase -- that the word is, is in brackets, or it’s in italics, excuse me.
Any word that’s in italics in any translation of the Bible means that it was added in by the translators because they couldn’t -- this was the only way they could make sense out of it. And as I’ve told you many times, in these translations I’ve shown you where words have been left out, words have been added in, tenses have been changed, the translators have made all kinds of alterations and what they have done is legitimate. They have not done anything to hurt us. It is not easy to translate ideas from one language into another language. It’s hard, because there is something called the idiom, which means that different languages, they have different ways of expressing things. I know even in this country, if you go down south and you want a hamburger, they don’t know what you’re talking about, you have to ask for meat on a bun. Meat on a bun, that’s what a hamburger is. So when we go from count- -- from language to language, they have their own way of expressing things, and some people that go to another country with a letter understanding of the language get into trouble.
Let me give you an example. I worked with a Cuban woman once. She was a lovely woman, and her English was excellent. And we had an office party, and she wanted to say something nice to one of the attorneys in the office, and she -- what was in her heart was that he was a real family man, and he was, he was a very nice guy. He also happened to be a very unattractive man. He wasn’t very hand- -- good looking at all, but he was very kind. And she went up to him and she said, you know, you’re a real homely man. Now homely means that you’re ugly, but what she meant was you’re a home-type family man. She was trying to bless him, but he was not a good looking man at all. And I was standing there, and his face went -- he couldn’t believe what she sai- -- he was devastated. She really hurt him.
So when we translate from one language to another, this is the problem that the translators have, so they will add words, they will leave words out; they will change things around in an attempt to make what was said in the one language understandable in the other language. So once again, I’m not doing anything different than the other translators haven’t done.
So we’re dealing with the phrase, “is the first king,” and the word is, is in italics, that means the translators added it in. there was no verb there. The word first, is Strong’s 7223, and it’s talking about first, whether in time, in order, in place or in dignity. It’s a high place. And the word king, is Strong’s 4428, this Hebrew word is translated forefathers in Deuteronomy 19:14. And it’s also translated -- same Hebrew word --translated king, is translated forefathers, and it’s also translated in front, or in the first rank in Isaiah 60:9.
So I’m suggesting to you then that there are three kings mentioned in verses 20-21. First the king of Media typifies the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, when the immature Christ was ruling. Second, the king of Persia, typifies the tree of the knowledge of good and evil when Satan made herself equal to the immature Christ. And third, the king of Grecia, typifies the tree of the knowledge of good and evil after Satan’s carnal mind broke Christ’s bones and ruled the fallen creation. Each of the three kings is a -- excuse me -- is a time period, or an age, in the existence of the first Adam, which we have called as we studied it here, the three stages of the fall.
Have we not studied the three stages of the fall here? Righteous Adam fell in three stages. And here we find Scripture saying, amen, righteous Adam fell in three stages. First he was the king of Media, then he was the king of Persia, then he was the king of Greece, and then he was kaputski. He died. Halleluiah. I don’t know about you, but I get very excited when God gives me something for you, and says this is the three stages of the fall, and then six months later I find it hidden in a prophetic Scripture, that gets me very excited.
Alternate Translation, the third, third of Daniel 8:21, “And there are the” -- “And these are the three stages of righteous Adam’s fall.” Now the Scripture says, the first king. Well what does that mean, the first king? But as we study we find out that what that means is, and these are the three stages of righteous Adam’s fall.
Alternate Translation, Daniel 8:21, “And Satan’s carnal mind was stronger than the Father’s immature Christ, and she broke Christ’s bones. And the spiritual power of Satan’s mind penetrated Eve, and she conceived and gave birth to the carnal mind, and Satan made her carnal mind the high priest of the fallen creation, and these are the three stages of righteous Adam’s fall.” Now I put that together for you with verse 20, I’m going to read you the alternate translation of verse 20 and 21, which I suggested to you at the beginning should really be one verse. “The souled animal life which you saw, had two spiritual laws in his mind, Christ and Satan. And Christ’s spiritual authority was stronger than Satan’s spiritual authority until Satan made herself male. And Satan’s carnal mind was stronger than the Father’s immature Christ, and she broke Christ’s bones. And the spiritual power of Satan’s mind penetrated Even, and she conceived and gave birth to the carnal mind. And Satan made her carnal mind the high priest of the fallen creation, and these are the three stages of righteous Adam’s fall.”
Amplified translation, Daniel 8:20-21, “The souled animal life which you saw, had two spiritual laws in his mind, Christ and Satan. And Christ’s spiritual authority was stronger than Satan’s spiritual authority until Satan made herself male. And the spiritual power of Satan’s mind penetrated Eve, and she conceived and gave birth to the carnal mind. And Satan’s carnal mind was stronger than the Father’s immature Christ, and she broke Christ’s bones. And Satan made her carnal mind the high priest of the fallen creation. And these are the three stages of righteous Adam’s fall.”
Going on with verse 22. “Now that being broken, whereas force stood up for it, four kingdoms shall stand up out of the nation, but not in his power.” Now, “that being broken,” is Strong’s 7665, it means to break in pieces, to be torn in pieces. This Hebrew word translated, “now that being broken,” is the same Hebrew word translated, the great horn was broken in -- [AUDIO CUTS OUT], where we found it used to describe breaking Christ’s bones.
I suggest to you that the phrase, “now that being broken,” is referring to the kings of Media and Persia who were torn to pieces by the king of Greece. I’ll also suggest to you that this is a second witness to our interpretation that the king of Greece typifies the carnal mind breaking Christ’s bones. Why is it a second witness? Because the same word was used in the prophecy part of the verse where it was talking about breaking Christ’s bones, is used when it -- in the verse that’s talking about Media/Persia, so to me that’s a second witness that our interpretation of Media/Persia is talking about that same event, where the same word was used earlier.
“Now that being broken whereas four stood up for it,” the word four is Strong’s 702, we have done a lot of studies on this word in the Hebrew in particular in the 38 series, and it has several meanings. For this Scripture right now, “and four stood up for it,” we’re going to take the -- one of the definitions we found out in the 38 series, but we found out that the number four typifies in the Scripture the four footed beast. The number four is the -- in the context of this verse, I suggest to you, signifies the animalistic fallen creation which the Scripture calls the beast.
Now we find prophecy is symbolic. There is an animal which describes the creation before the fall. Does anybody know what it is? It’s in the 71 series; it’s a lion. A lion. Jesus is the lion of Judah. It typifies the creation before the fall, and it’s going to typify the glorified creation. OK? There is a symbol of the creation after the fall, and it’s called a beast. In Daniel 7 that beast is described as a bear. Do you know that Scripture in -- I think it’s in one of the -- well, it’s in one of the history books -- where is says these children came out of the woods and mocked Elisha, and said go up you bald head. And the bears came out of the woods, and killed him? Do you know what that symbolizes? They mocked the man of God when they were saying to him, go up, go up, they were mocking the fact that Elijah was caught up, and they were saying oh I don’t believe it, go ahead Elijah, you do it too. And bears came out of the woods. Their carnal mind came out and destroyed their spiritual life. Their carnal mind came out and destroyed their spiritual life. You cannot mock the things of God. If you don’t understand it, put it aside, don’t mock what you don’t understand because you’ll surely reap what you’ve sowed.
“Now that being broken whereas four stood up for it,” and, “stood up for it,” is Strong’s 5975 means to arise, to serve, to minister, to stand firm, to endure, it’s talking about spiritual position. If you are fallen, you’re lying in a bed, the Scripture describes you as lying in a bed. If you’re standing up you’re in the full stature of the full strength of the spiritual man out of Christ. Some of us are sitting up in that bed today. Halleluiah. Worried to it and stood up for it, it means to arise, it’s talking about manifestation. It’s talking about materialization. It’s talking about Christ arising. Christ can arise, or another spirit can arise. It’s talking about a manifestation of spirit.
“In its place,” Strong’s 8478, now this is not in the King James. “In its place,” it’s in the interlinear, however, these words were not translated by the King James translators. “Now that being broken whereas four stood up for in its place,” the King James translators didn’t know what to do with it, they couldn’t make good English out of it so they just took it out of the translation, but it’s making sense to us. In Strong’s 8478 and it means the lower part, that which is below, beneath, under, sub, lower parts. It can also mean because of, or instead of. Now what is that which is below, does anybody remember? What is that which is below? Beneath? What’s beneath? There were two horns. There were two horns, which one was beneath? Well there were two horns, which it has a name. Which one was beneath? Two horns. Two spiritual powers?
Satan. Satan. OK? Christ was on top, and Satan was on the bottom. Two spiritual powers. So when it says something stood up in its place, Satan stood up in his place. That which was underneath, rose up.
Alternate Translation, the first half of Daniel 8:23, “And the fallen bestial creation materialized because of the lower part of the creation.” Brethren, this world came into existence because Satan rebelled. This whole world, including these fallen bodies and our fallen carnal minds, was born because Satan rebelled against her authority and fertilized the creation and brought forth a bastard child. That’s what we all were, a bastard child, and Jesus is coming to adopt us. That’s why we need to be adopted, because we’re bastards.
Amplified translation, first half of Daniel 8:23, “And this is how the fallen bestial creation materialized because of the lower horn’s rebellion.” Because of Satan’s rebellion, that’s how we got here. Continuing with the second half of Daniel 8:23, “Four kingdoms shall stand up out the nation, but not in his power.” Now we have the same Hebrew word translated four, but we’re going to take a different translation for it here. Another possible meaning of the word, four, is that it symbolizes the full, or the complete amount of parts. That’s in the reference books; four symbolizes the full or the complete amount of parts. And we know that this is a many membered creation, we know there are Scriptures in the book of Job that says when God started this creation, He knew exactly how many members were going to be in the last day. When this creation is finished, when it’s made permanent, God knew from the beginning of time how many people it was going to comprise. Four, the number four, typifies the fullness, the full amount; the complete amount of those numbers. And the word kingdom is Strong’s 4438, it means a country and people that are subject to a king. The spiritual application of the word kingdom is in the Scripture as a human being who was subject to King Jesus. The term the kings of the earth, are man in whom Christ is ruling. And the nations are men, including Christians, in whom the carnal mind is ruling. Either you are a king of the earth or you are a nation.
Revelation 19:12 reveals the glorified Christ wearing many crowns indicating His lordship over many individuals. Four kingdoms, I suggest to you then, is a symbolic expression which indicates the complete number of men over whom Christ shall reign.
Continuing with the second half of Daniel 8:23, “Four kingdoms shall stand up out of the nation, but not in His power.” “Shall stand up,” that’s the same as above, it’s talking about manifestation. “Out of the nation,” Strong’s 1471, this word nation it means not only gentiles, but it’s used to express the corporate body of gentiles. It’s used -- well we all got the body of Christ, it’s a many membered body of Christ, there is a many membered body of gentiles. Everybody that’s -- that Christ is not ruling in is a member of the gentile body, so we have two bodies in the earth. We not only have a body of Christ, we find out now we have a body of gentiles.
And we know that the Scripture is spiritual -- not the Scripture, but the creation is spiritual. Plant life -- Jesus said He’s a vine, we’re told we’re the planting of the Lord -- we are spiritual plant life. And we can be likened to this plant over here, which has one root system, but many leaves, and each individual human being is a leaf on the plant. There’s two vines, there’s only two plants in the earth, Christ and the carnal mind, and the carnal mind’s about to thrown into the lake of fire, there’s only one plant life that’s valid in this earth. There is only one true vine, and the false vine is about to be thrown. Glory to God, the fire’s waiting for it. Halleluiah.
“The four kingdoms shall stand up out of that -- out of the nation, but not in His power.” “In His power,” Strong’s 3581, we’ve dealt with this word several times. It can mean witchcraft power, it can mean the power of Christ; it can also mean virile strength, talking about one’s strength to reproduce. Some people are just more fertile than other people, both men and women, some of them are more fertile than other people. This word in the phrase, “but not in His power,” is talking about the ability for spiritual reproduction.
The interlinear says, but not with its power, but I’m suggesting to you it should read, but not -- it should read, not with or by the power of the fallen creation. In other words, it’s not going to happen by the power of the carnal mind. What’s not going to happen? Four kingdoms shall stand up out of the nation, not by the power of the carnal mind. Not by the power of the carnal mind. The full number of sons of God, which God ordained from the beginning of time, shall materialize, in this world we shall see them and they shall come out of the many members of the fallen, living soul. Brethren, there is a whole creation of people here. The sons of God are going to appear in some of the people that are already on the earth. They’re not falling out of the heavens, God’s using what He’s already got. God doesn’t throw anything away. He doesn’t demolish buildings, He takes what He’s got, and if He doesn’t like the way it is He smashes it and He rebuilds it. And there’s going to be a company of sons of God -- now what is a son of God?
A son of God -- another name for it is the king of the earth. It is a human being that has been apprehended by Christ, who is laid down, or sacrificed his life in this world to such a degree that only Christ is being seen through him. His wants, his needs, his motives, his thoughts have become nonexistent. Christ is everything. Paul said, “I live but not I, Christ liveth in me.” And I want to tell you I’ve experienced this a couple of times, it was quite an experience. I was literally pushed to the background. I had an awareness, Christ was using my vessel, 100 percent, talking, thinking, moving, and I was like a spectator.
And did we not read about this in the book of Daniel? Daniel said he was sitting there and he heard two people talking to each other, and we found out it was the Father speaking to Christ Jesus, and Daniel was a spectator. I have experienced this, and it’s some experience. It is some awesome experience. This is what a son of God is. If you are a true son of God there is no room for pride, it is impossible to be proud if you are the genuine article. We have phonies in this world, there are plenty of phonies in the church; everybody knows that. Phonies in the church on every level.
I was in a service once in the church that I was raised up in, and a man walked in and he said to the pastor here’s my card, I want to preach. And the pastor said don’t show me a card, show me your fruit, and sit down. The church is filled with phonies, but there is a true reality to the concept of the sons of God. There is no pride in the sons of God, because all sin has been utterly crushed and paralyzed, it is only Christ moving through them. They have for all intents and purposes died. How can you be proud if you’re dead?
But the many members of the body of Christ shall never the less arise out of the body of the gentiles, not by the carnal mind’s authority, but by the reproductive strength of the glorified Christ. Brethren, Christ is having children. He is bringing forth children. There are Scriptures to support this, Isaiah 53 talks about it, He’s going to have children. He’s bringing forth offspring, spiritual life of God is being born in men. The mind that is Christ is going to be revealed to human beings just like it happened with Jesus of Nazareth. And they’re coming out of the existing people. He’s taking the existing human beings that are fallen, that are filled with sin, that are utterly corrupt, and He’s planting His seed in them, and He’s pouring out His Holy Spirit upon them, and He’s joining with them, and there’s a plant that’s going to grow up in them, the planting in the Lord. The true vine will appear in the minds of the people whom the Holy Spirit has joined with, and He’s going to keep on growing until that tree fills the whole earth of your soul, and you shall be a living sacrifice. You shall be utterly crushed and suppressed, and only Christ shall be revealed through you. And there’s going to be a group of people that are going to be the full expression of Christ. Jesus said, “I am the shape of the Father.” We will be the shape of the Father. And He’s choosing a group of people out of an existing body of gentiles to do this in. But the many members of Christ Jesus shall never the less arise out of the body of the gentiles, not by the carnal minds authority, but by the reproductive strength of the glorified Christ.
Alternate Translation, the whole of Daniel 8:22, “And this how the fallen bestial creation materialized because of the lower horn’s rebellion, but the many members of Christ Jesus shall never the less arise out of the body of the gentiles, not by the carnal minds authority, but by the reproductive strength of the glorified Christ.” Just as a note of information in closing, Strong’s 3851, the word which describes Christ’s reproductive strength is the same Hebrew word used in Job 40:16, where it describes behemoths reproductive strength.
And you may recall from our 18 series that behemoth typifies the many membered fallen creation, or the first Adam. The first Adam had the reproductive strength to bring forth humanity as we see it now in the physical realm, but Christ is a spirit, and He has the reproductive strength to bring forth His life, which is the life of the Father in the existing creation. We are going to be converted from the inside out, just like Jesus stood on the manna transfiguration and the glory shined out from Him, we are going to be changed from the inside out. And that’s why your religious works are dead works, and they will not get you into heaven. Religious works are on the outside and the kingdom of God is within you, we must be converted from inside to get into the kingdom of heaven. And that’s why Paul said that you need to repent of your dead works, because the truth is that there is nothing that we can do that will get us into heaven, it is the work of Christ. Jesus has come to finish the work of the Father. And what is the work of the Father? The work of the Father is the creation. The Father formed the living soul at the beginning of time, but we’re not finished, we’re dying. We’re supposed to have eternal life, so Jesus is come to finish the work that the Father started to bring us forth into the image of the Father.
We are not in the Father’s image, brethren. How can we be in the sin that we’re in and be in the Father’s image? Jesus -- we are in the likeness of the Father in that we are spirit, and Jesus has come to complete the work, He’s going to bring us into the image of the Father. How? By erasing the image of Satan from our heart, through judgment, and He will impress His image on our human spirit which is typified by gold, and it’s called a molten image in the Scripture, and He shall engrave the image of the Father on our souls, which is typified by wood, and we shall be raised from the dead, and we shall be forever with the Lord because He shall be inside of us, our God shall be inside of us, and He shall be a fire within us, and a wall of fire without us -- around us -- and we shall abide in peace, and the lion shall lie down with the lamb. Satan shall dwell in the same place with the Christ as the lesser horn under the authority of Christ. Satan’s gone back down under into her female position, and the creation, which is spirit, shall be visible because of the earth covering of which Satan is a part. And Jesus shall complete the work of the Father, and it shall be perfect.
Recap, Daniel 8:20-23, “The souled animal life which you saw, had two spiritual laws in his mind, Christ and Satan. And Christ’s spiritual authority was stronger than Satan’s spiritual authority, until Satan made herself male. And the spiritual power of Satan’s mind penetrated Eve, and she conceived and gave birth to the carnal mind. And Satan’s carnal mind was stronger than the Father’s immature Christ, and she broke Christ’s bones. And Satan made her carnal mind the high priest of the fallen creation, and these are the three stages of righteous Adam’s fall. And this is how the fallen bestial creation materialized, because of the lower horn’s rebellion. And the many members of Christ Jesus shall” -- excuse me -- “but the many members of Christ Jesus shall never the less, even though we fell, will still never the less arise out of the body of the gentiles, not by the carnal mind’s authority, which is generated as fallen creation, but by the reproductive strength of the glorified Christ.”
The carnal mind cannot bring permanency to these bodies, neither can she bring permanency to these souls, they keep on dying so long as she is the foundation of the creation, the souls and the bodies of men will keep on dying and the spirit, of course, has died, it’s the sprit that’s being raised from the dead. Glory to God. Halleluiah. Any questions? OK, just do me a favor; please use the microphone.
So that means we’re going to be, like, equal with Christ then, because the spirit
is reproducing Christ in us and we’re going to grow up and we’re going to be equal with Christ, right? On the earth?
Well we’re going to be equal with Him because He’s going to be our life. It’s not that we’re a fallen man that’s going to be equal with Him, we won’t be fallen anymore; we’ll be raised from the dead.
OK? So it’s really Christ that will be equal with Christ. Fallen sin-filled man will never be equal to Christ, but we’re not going to be fallen anymore. Our life is going to be in us, Christ is going to be in us, so Jesus thought it not robbery to call Himself the Son of God. OK? But we must be converted. We are not -- we will never be equal to God in our fallen condition, that is one of the lies that are being -- I don’t really know if there’s any preacher that says that, but a lot of people that are against the Sonship message say that it’s a prideful message because we’re making our self equal to God, but that’s not true. If there’s anybody that preaches it -- maybe there’s someone that’s preaching it, but it’s an error. Fallen man will never be equal to God, never.
You said that it’s going to happen to us just like it happened to Jesus of Nazareth.
He’s the first of many, brethren.
He’s our example.
Do you know Jesus was before the creation of the world?
He was at the right hand of God.
The man Jesus was not before the creation of the world. The Christ, the logos of God that was in Him, He was born in sinful flesh that the life that was within Him was from the beginning of time, and that’s the life that’s going to be in you. But the body that He had was born of fallen woman, that’s why he was made likened to sinful flesh.
But Jesus is the only one that died on the cross and went through that suffering, and nothing could strip Him from the preeminence, even though we will be glorified He is going to be the head.
You don’t understand what I said.
We have got to worship Jesus; we’re not going to be in Christ.
You don’t understand what I said. He’s going to be us, we’re not going to be Him. He’s going to be us. He’s coming forth, He’s coming forth in you and you’re -- you are going to be a living sacrifice.
Jesus, have mercy.
Now we’re not going to be -- now it’s not what you’re saying. I’m not saying what you’re saying. He’s going to be us.
Are we going to worship Jesus?
Of course. What is the true worship? Do you know that worship is not raising your hands? The true worship is submission. We will be so submitted to Him that we will be dead.
But we -- you said He is going to be us though, so how -- if He’s us, how are we going to worship Him?
Because we have -- our carnal mind is going to be in submission to Him. He’s going to be dwelling through us, and our carnal mind is going to be in utter submission to Him.
We won’t have a carnal mind in the kingdom of God.
Yeah, well that’s not true. That’s not true.
The carnal mind -- OK, the carnal mind. The creation is going back to the way it was. I talked about it tonight. The creation was made with two spiritual laws in it, and Satan has a purpose and her purpose is that she’s part of the dirt that’s giving the invisible God form, but she must be under the control of Christ. Just like when you ride a horse, your horse must be under control of the rider. So there is a place in the creation for the carnal minds of men, but it must be in total submission to the Christ. And we’re going back to the creation at the beginning of time. I’ll just -- I’ll put it on the board for you. And I’ll try and draw it this way. That’s the creation, and it’s like saying you have a heart and you have lungs. Or it’s like saying you have a heart and you have blood. Here this greater authority has total control over the lesser authority. And the creation is functioning. What happened at the beginning of time was that Satan got out. Satan got out and She took control. The little whore took control over the creation, and knocked down God’s ordained authority and put it underneath. So what’s going to happen is that, yes, we will still have a carnal mind, but it’s not going to be in the -- right now, our carnal mind is ruling and it’s causing us to die. So we will still have a carnal mind, and it will be totally under the authority of the Christ. It will be incapable of sinning.
Does Jesus still have a carnal mind?
No, Jesus is glorified.
But we’ll still have carnal minds?
Until we’re glorified. Give him the mic. Until we’re glorified. But there’s a difference between having a carnal mind that is ruling through us and having a carnal mind that is worshipping Christ. A carnal mind is going to worship Christ.
When I asked you that question, I meant the kingdom of God. I meant when we’re in the kingdom of God.
Ask me again. I don’t know what you’re saying.
Are we going to have the carnal mind?
There are three stages of resurrection. So long as we’re in this flesh, we will have a carnal mind that will be under the control of Christ. Right now our carnal mind is not under the control of Christ. Maybe it’s under the control of Christ sometimes. But our carnal mind will be permanently under control of Christ.
I believe there’s only one stage of the resurrection, where our vile bodies will be changed, like, unto His glorious body. And then the carnal mind is going to be wiped out.
Yeah. Well, look Jimmy. You know, if you -- I -- this is really a fruitless conversation, because we’ve been studying here for years. And we found it in the scriptures. Three stages of the resurrection. But there’s no basis for me to talk to you about it, because you haven’t studied what we’ve studied. So I -- there’s -- it’s a fruitless conversation. If I could explain something to you about what I taught, I’d be glad to do it. But do you understand what I’m saying? I’m not putting you off. It’s that you’re telling me there aren’t three stages of the resurrection, and God has -- after hours of painful studying, God has brought forth this revelation here. Now if you had studied and listened to all the messages, and gone through it, and told me that you didn’t believe it because, I’d be glad to listen to you. But, you know, you’re just not qualified to say you don’t believe it, because you haven’t even listened to what God has shown us.
OK. I’ll form it this way. How did Christ’s bones -- how were they crushed in the beginning of time again?
OK. First of all, they were spiritual bones. And what that scriptural expression is talking about, is -- it’s saying that the creation had a form. I p- -- I had it on the board earlier. The creation had a particular form. Let me draw it this way, just to make it simple. The creation had a form. And it was a right -- in the form of a right triangle. And Christ was ruling. Satan was down here. So the bones of the creation is the form of the creation. This is the bones of the creation. It was in the form of a right triangle. And Satan got out from -- She was locked down here in the earth. And She came up here. She came up here. And what happened was the whole form of the creation changed. It was no longer a right triangle. And it became a straight line. So the formation of the righteous creation changed from a right triangle to a straight line. And that’s what it means. If you can understand what I’m saying.
Was Adam Christ before he fell?
He was an immature manifestation of Christ. What is Christ? Who is Christ? Christ is God in the earth. So Adam before the fall was God in the earth. He was an expression of God in the earth.
There’s a scripture in Corinthians that said that Christ is going to be all in all.
Is that on?
Yeah. That’s the glorification. Now the Father’s going to be all in all. That’s the glorification. So, yeah.
I know that there’s a scripture in the Bible that says not a bone of Christ -- not a bone will be broken. It prophecies it. And in the New Testament, they always break the bones of the people that are crucified. But His didn’t get broken in the natural. I don’t understand why you say that his bones were broken.
Yeah, well you missed a few meetings. You know, we found it in the scriptures. And that’s what it means. It’s talking about His spiritual formation. And what it’s talking about, in this instance, is that it was saying even though he was crucified, his spiritual condition would not -- he would not be broken down to a fallen man. He was raised from the dead. That’s what it means. Seem to be having trouble getting it out. His spiritual condition -- look, what’s wrong with the creation today is that we’re in the wrong moral order. Satan is the prince of the power of the air. Underneath is His carnal mind. Eve is in here. And the name of the creation in this hour is death. This is the bones. This is the bones of the fallen creation. Satan, Eve and the carnal mind. This is the formation of the bones. That’s going to change. We’re going to have the Father, Christ, and Eve is going to be in here. This was the condition of Jesus Christ of Nazareth. The whole human race is in this skeleton. The spiritual bones of the whole human race is in this condition. Satan, Eve and the carnal mind. OK? Jesus Christ of Nazareth was in this condition. The Father, Eve and Christ. When the scripture says not a bone of his would be broken, what it means is that this would not -- that Jesus, the man Jesus of Nazareth, would not -- his spiritual condition would not revert back to this. Can you understand that? That’s what it means.
Yeah. But where is the scripture that says that his spiritual bones were broken in the beginning?
Oh, it’s in the Daniel -- it’s in the Daniel 8 messages. You c- -- you know, if you want them, you have to listen to them.
OK. But it did mean, though, that physically his bones were not broken also.
Well the scripture’s being fulfilled on many levels. It’s being fulfilled on a deep spiritual level. It’s being fulfilled in the natural, so that men could understand. But the true reality is what’s happening in the spirit. In all honesty, I asked you, what could the fact that his physical bones weren’t broken -- what could it do for us? See this is how we have to transfer from the letter of the scripture until the spirit of the scripture. It’s the same thing as saying, what could the cracker and grape juice do for us? It’s just a type that’s leading us to the true communion. What good could it do for men that a man hung on the cross and his bones weren’t broken? It was just a type. It was the thing would fulfill the scripture that would give people faith, because they saw the scripture fulfilled on this level. But now when I tell you this way that his bones wouldn’t be broken, that the configuration that gives life would not be broken up, now that means something. Do you understand what I’m saying?
OK. Everything that we see in the natural, it’s just a type and a shadow to help us understand spiritual things.
Yeah. Because if -- I see what you’re saying, because if He hadn’t have stayed in that position, then He wouldn’t have overcome death, and He wouldn’t have --
He wouldn’t have fulfilled the purpose that He came to do.
Exactly. That’s what it meant. These bones --
Which was stay in that position so that we could come out of that position. And it could be broken down through the last Adam.
Right. Because what’s happened to Him was his body was -- died on the cross, but his spiritual condition stayed. He was raised from the dead. He was glorified. He ascended. And now He’s pouring out His spirit upon all flesh. He’s in our minds. Now if his bones had been broken, He couldn’t be in our minds, doing the work of salvation that He’s doing today. That’s what it meant.
But it’s a deeper question to ask, why did He allow Himself, in the beginning of time, to be immature and go under Satan like that. I mean, that’s deep, but I’d like to know the answer to that.
He didn’t allow Himself to be immature. He was immature. God formed the creation at the beginning, as I just preached tonight. It was not in a permanent form. And the Adam --
But He’s perfect.
Mm-hmm. He didn’t say He was perfect. He said it was good. God said the creation was good.
But when the Father created, He didn’t create His Christ perfect in the beginning of time?
He made Him good. The scripture says that He was good.
He created Him immature?
Everything God does starts from seed.
Starts from seed.
Everything God does starts from seed.
Well I can understand that part. That it starts from seed.
Mm-hmm. Because the creation was God’s plan that it would grow into a creation of many members. It was not finished. It was the beginning.
I just don’t understand why this seed had to go through so much travail and so much pain, even to now, the pain that we’re in, to birth the Christ. I don’t understand that part of it. That He was perf- -- the Father had an idea. How come it didn’t appear perfectly? I mean, I hear what you’re saying, in the seed, but you know what I’m saying?
Mm-hmm. It will be perfect.
Why didn’t -- why couldn’t He do it immediately?
I’m sure he could’ve, but he didn’t. He does everything from seed and it has to grow. He starts with a seed and it grows.
And what is in my mind that I cannot think like God? That I -- am I -- is it just impatience? Or is it something -- I think it would be something stronger than that.
It’s your carnal mind that’s in your mind that you can’t think like that.
Right. It’s my carnal mind, but I’m thinking, why couldn’t it have happened immediately?
It didn’t. I don’t know that it couldn’t have. It didn’t. This is the way He did it. Everything is seed form. That’s just the answer.
Well, I can receive that, that He does things in seed form. I know that.
I mean, why aren’t we healed instantly? Why aren’t we delivered instantly? Everything’s a process.
Do you believe that God created Christ in the beginning of time?
Did God create Christ?
No. Christ was not created. Christ is the expression of the Father in the earth. He always was. He was- -- that’s what the Jehovah’s Witnesses say, that He was created. He wasn’t created. He’s God. He always was.
Jesus Christ always was? Praise God.
Please, Michelle. Please.
Jesus Christ always was with God the Father.
The Son was in the bosom of the Father.
OK. The Son was in the bosom of the Father. So you’re saying that Chri- -- see, I wasn’t even going to go this far, but I might as well. Praise God. You’re saying that Adam was an immature Christ.
No. I didn’t say that. I said that Adam is the name of the creation. And Adam can be likened to a bottle that can be filled with -- it can be either filled with the life of the Father or with the life of Satan. God created this vessel. And He filled it with the life of the Father. I’m sorry. He filled it with the life of -- ask me again. I’m getting tired. What did you say?
I’m sorry. I’m getting tired too. So I’m not as quick as I usually am.
I don’t know. I thought you said Adam was an immature Christ.
Yeah. I thought so too. I thought that’s what you were saying. The righteous Adam is Christ in the immature form.
Yes. That’s what I said.
Oh, OK then. Maybe I misunderstood you. The original creation was an immature manifestation of Christ. Yes. You see, Christ is the Father in the earth. Christ is the spirit of God appearing in the earth. Joined to the earth. That’s what this whole creation is. The spirit of God joined to the earth. And at the beginning of time, it was joined at an immature joining. It hadn’t put down roots yet. The seed was planted, but the roots didn’t go down yet. And the flower was ripped up before the roots went down.
You know why I feel like that I can believe that we were the immature Christ in the beginning, is because it says in the Bible that we came out from Him and we’re, right now, going through Him. And we’re going back to Him. And that scripture makes me think that, yeah, I was H- -- I came from Him. I am Him. I am part of Him.
See a lot of people, they --
Is that right?
I am part of Him. I came from Him.
That’s right, but let me expound on it. A lot of --
But when I was in- -- when I was created, it was an immature --
Yeah. Let me comment on that, because a lot of people that preach this message think -- they hear that scripture in Job that we were with Him, and the scripture that you just quoted, and they think that we were with the Father as we are now. And we were not. We were with the Father in seed form. We have messages of this in the 38 series. We were with Father -- the Father in the form of sperm. The Lord looked at Abraham and said, “Levite, pay tithes,” while He was in the loins of Abraham. We were with the Father from before time, but we were in seed form. Which can be likened to sperm in the loins of a man. And we came out of Him, and we were sewn in the earth, just like a man impregnates his wife. We were sewn there, then the baby has to grow. And that’s what’s happening to us. The creation is growing. And the end of it is that we will be fully born in the image of our Father. And, you know, a lot of people teach, well God made Adam in the garden, and He made a full-grown man.
But we were just -- we were not separate. We were j- -- it was just one. It was just Him, right?
Mm-hmm. The seeds.
And now we’re going through Him. What does that mean? We’re all separated.
We’re going to be joined.
And we’re -- but we’re going through Him right now. What does that mean? We’re going through Him?
I don’t know. I can’t answer that right now.
And we’re going back to Him.
We’re going back to Him.
I know we’re on our way back to the Father.
Uh-huh. Yeah. If you want to say something, I’m -- please, get the mic. OK.
In other -- can I put it in other words? Our spirit was with the Father.
There was -- the Son was with the Father. And when the Son came out from the Father, and was sewn in the earth, He was scattered. He was one seed and He broke into many seeds. And a drop of Him is in each of us in the form of our human spirit. There was just one seed, the Son, that was in the bosom of the Father, that came out. And when the scripture says He’s reconciling all into one, His seed has been divided. It’s His seed that’s coming back to be the glorified Christ. So, you see, we’re really not separate. This illusion that we’re separate is just that. It’s an illusion. And it’s because we’re fallen. We’re not separate. We’re one. We’re Him! He is us.
An illusion is something that is not real.
Take the mic.
What is the definition of the illusion, you know?
An illusion is a shadow. It’s not real.
It’s not real. You’re saying that this is not real.
No. It’s not. It’s a bad dream. Adam’s having a bad dream. You missed a lot. He had --
I have heard that Adam has been asleep and --
He was castrated. Yeah. He was castrated at the beginning of time. He went into shock and he fell asleep from the shock. And he’s about to be woken up. This is a bad dream.
Except it’s very real for us, because we’re caught in it. But spiritually speaking, he’s having a bad dream. He had -- he was castrated, he was shocked, and he’s having a bad dream.
Like, when you say real, you mean it’s temporal, but does that mean we’re nonexistent?
No. We have an existence. You see, this is where a lot of people get confused. They think that death means nonexistence. But death does not mean nonexistence. If you look up death and hell in the concordances, it tells you it’s a place where the dead abide, where they have an existence and torment. So, no, we have an existence, all right.
We are -- like, you are existing right now, but you’re not real. You’re temporal.
Yes. We’re experiencing it. In relationship to Christ, we’re not real. He’s the only reality. He’s life and we’re death. But for us, it’s real. But what really happened is His spirit died and was buried under the earth of our soul. So it’s our human spirit, which is Christ, which is in Hades right now, buried under the earth of our soul and our bodies.
It’s really Christ that’s having -- that’s experiencing the illusion.
And a bad dream.
Well, what’s the illusion? This world and this flesh is an illusion. It’s Christ that’s having the bad dream. And the dream is this world, and this body, and this soul, and all of this torment. It’s Christ that’s experiencing it. We are Christ. We are not this personality. We’re Christ.
How come He can’t control this, and wake up and come out of it?
Because when He agreed to leave the Father and to be sewn into the earth, the way the scripture expresses it is that He lost all of His strength in childbirth. All of his spiritual strength was given to the earth, so that the creation could be formed. And He willingly did this believing that the Father would raise Him up. He came -- He gave all of His spiritual strength to bring this creation into being. And it came into being in seed -- in a weakened seed form. And now He has to grow up. And He’s going to grow up to be a fully mature man.
Was He aware before creation that when He came into the realm of time that He would have a carnal mind?
Yes. I believe so.
Because He knew all things, right?
I believe He knew it.
Did He forget when He came -- did He lose His memory? Did He also lose His memory?
He lost His memory, because we’re Him. And the whole world doesn’t know who they are. So I would have to say He lost His memory.
So He knew it before the realm of time. He knew it before, that He was going to experience this. But once He came into it, He forgot who He was?
He lost His strength and He lost His memory. And He came into it believing that God would get Him out.
So He -- once He’s lowered into it, He doesn’t even know He’s got a carnal mind until He’s --
He doesn’t know who He is. His spirit died. He doesn’t know who He is. He died in childbirth.
And that’s us.
We don’t know who we are.
We don’t know who we are.
Except for when the spirit gives us pieces of revelation like this.
Well once Christ comes to us with -- the resurrection has begun. So we start to remember.
Of course. So it’s much more than revelation. It’s Him coming forth in that.
It’s more than revelation. It’s a memory now. A lot of people that are in the reconciliation message, they’ll preach to you, well you just have to remember who you are. Know who you are and you’ll be resurrected, but that’s not true.
Why [AUDIO CUTS OUT] that?
I don’t know why they believe that. Right. It’s an error. You know, it’s an error.
Because they think if they know who they are --
They think if they think that -- they think that they could remember in their carnal mind. That’s what they think. That they could remember in their carnal mind.
And you can’t remember in your carnal mind. Our spirit is dead. Christ must come to us, join with us, and raise us from the dead. When Christ in you is regenerated, you will remember. That’s what they don’t understand. They have this revelation that when you remember, you’ll be OK, but what they don’t understand is that you can’t remember until you’re raised from the dead. Your carnal mind cannot remember. Your carnal mind was never God. But Christ in you was with the Father from the beginning. So when your spirit is raised from the dead, you’ll remember. But they’re trying to remember with their carnal mind.
So, then, what I am thinking is, because I have heard that in other teachings, and what I was thinking wa- -- maybe this is correct, that once my spirit is quickened it does have the power to give me eternal life.
But it’s quickened.
When Christ is in my spirit and He quickens my spirit, is that true?
He doesn’t have the power to give you eternal life until He’s fully born in you. He has to be fully born in you, because when you’re spirit is quickened, you’re not raised from the dead until you’re raised from the dead. When we -- when you’re spirit is quickened, it is the beginning of a process that will raise you from the dead.
But so -- but I mean, the fact that He can quicken my spirit to remember who I really am. Because of the fact that I could remember by the spirit who I am, that gives me power to know who I am and the carnal mind just burns away.
Well, I don’t -- at this point it’s my opinion, and I don’t really see it that way. What they’re saying is if you remember, it’s the remembering that’s going to raise you from the dead. But I don’t believe that. Christ joining to you is what’s going to raise you from the dead. And when you’re raised from the dead, you’ll remember. They’re putting the horse before the cart. Christ has to be born in you and raise you from the dead.
That’s what I always thought that meant. That because the spirit quickens who -- so that we know -- as we know who we really are, this carnal mind just falls away.
I don’t bel- -- I don’t think I believe that. I really don’t.
That doesn’t happen, huh?
That’s what they’re teaching. And what they’re really saying is there’s no judgment. No. As our carnal mind -- as Christ in us comes forth, our carnal mind doesn’t fall away. Christ kills it. So, you see, they’re -- that teaching --
Or it falls away, or is burnt, or is killed?
Well, it’s not the way they’re teaching it. They’re teaching it like you don’t have to do anything. You just have to remember. And that’s not true. You have to fight the warfare. You have to kill your carnal mind as a military force.
Yeah. All right.
It has to be fought and whipped.
And that teaching, I don’t really know what they believe. But what it says to me is that there’s no judgment. Just remember and your carnal mind will die. And that’s a lie. And there’s a lot of people that are going to be ashamed in the hour of his appearing. Because they’re expecting it to be happening to them, and they’re not fighting the warfare.
So that’s a very -- see, as far as I’m concerned, that’s a very wicked doctrine. Any doctrine -- you see, I’ve been saying for a long time that the people in the church that aren’t into deep doctrine, OK, they could believe in the rapture and they can believe in the very basic fundamental teachings of the church. They’re going to enter in before people that believe that doctrine. And the reason they’re going to enter in first is because they know that they’re sinners and they know that Jesus has to do what they think. He’s coming to rapture them. But they know that they’re salvation is in Christ. This teaching that you’re talking about right now, it doesn’t say that Christ is the Savior. It’s a terrible doctrine. And it’s doctrines like that that turn the whole church world against deep spiritual truth. It’s a very wicked doctrine. I don’t know if you can hear it or not. You’re looking at me like you don’t understand. It’s a very wicked doctrine.
Yeah. It’s a very wicked doctrine.
I heard what you said. That you’re saying that they think that it’s going to just die off as soon as they know who they are.
I heard that.
I mean, that is --
But I don’t understand what you’re saying, that they’re denying that He’s even the Savior.
Well, who needs Christ? If your carnal mind is going to die as soon as you remember who you are, what do you need Christ for?
Because without Christ you can’t remember who you are.
Well, that -- I don’t hear that in that doctrine. I really -- I hear it -- to me it’s a Christless doctrine. And it’s one of the doctrines that makes people very afraid of deep teaching. Because they’re -- the emphasis is on the man. When you remember who you are, you’re going to ascend. There’s no room for Christ in it. There’s no glory to Christ in it. It’s a new-age doctrine. It’s a humanistic doctrine. All the glory is to man. And there’s no glory to Christ in it at all. There’s a lot of people that have received that doctrine.
I j- -- I related to what we -- I had spoken to you about the other night, that if we are -- have -- as children, our human spirit has been forced to not express itself. And through our parents’ carnal mind or our own, you know, when we started to grow up under that carnal mind. And then we obtained our own strength and carnal mind that just crushed our spirit. And that’s what I relate th- -- I, kind of, relate it the same way. That our spirit was never able to express itself.
Well, that’s true.
You see my point?
The way God has it set up, you’re really talking about two different things. We have an existence. We are all -- this creation died, but we have an existence. And in this existence of death, frequently the human spirit is not able to express itself. And we have, in this existence, people that we call well-adjusted, and people that we call maladjusted. People that are functioning in this realm of death, and they have decent lives. People that are not functioning in this realm of death, and they’re in torment. OK? So, in that condition, the people that are in torment usually have a human spirit that has been suppressed. OK? But the people that are not in torment, their human spirit is still dead. It’s still dead. So, you see, there’s two different things we’re talking about. Can you see that?
Praise God. That’s a very wicked doctrine. Gives all the glory to man. See that’s -- that should be your acid test. When you try a doctrine, the most primary question you should be asking yourself, is the doctrine giving the glory to God. See, now Jimmy asked me a few questions that he must have heard from some other people that are telling him that this teaching gives all the glory to man. Well, I don’t give the glory to man. It’s the other way around. He’s going to be glorified in us. All the glory is unto Him. So any doctrine that gives the glory to man is not -- it’s not of God. Because we are nothing next to God. He is everything and we are nothing.
What was meant by, “This day I have begotten you?”
“This day I have begotten you?”
When the Father was talking about Jesus, right?
Give me the whole scripture. I can’t --
I think it’s in Psalms. “This day I have begotten you.” I can’t remember the rest of it.
Yeah, well. Off the top of my head, this is the situation. I just -- we just talked about it earlier, that the Son separated from the Father, knowing that He was being sewn into the earth in seed form. And that He was rich, but He would become poor. He knew that He was going to lose all his spiritual strength, so that the creation could come into being. OK? And He knew that the Father was going to have to raise Him up. So, when the Father said, “This day I have --,” -- well, let me back up. When He was sewed into the earth, when He was joined with the Earth so that the creation could be formed, what was formed was the female element of the creation. God decided to reproduce Himself. And He brought forth a female element from Himself. We see this form of reproduction in plants. One plant will bring forth a female seed, and it will bring forth a male seed. And they’ll join, and there’ll be a new plant. The Father is reproducing Himself. And He brought forth the female seed. This creation is the female seed. When the F- -- only a man can beget. No woman can. But woman conceives. A man -- only a man can beget. So when the Father said, “This day I have begotten you,” it means that He poured out the male seed upon the female creation. To bring forth the offspring. God is reproducing Himself. He was in heaven, and He’s reproducing Himself in the earth. And the way He’s doing it is that He’s having a Son. Everybody knows that Jesus is the Son. The Father is reproducing Himself. There’s another generation of the Father coming forth.
07/29/14 – Transcribed by VerbalFusion
08/07/14 – 1st Edit CAS/BP