The Following Message Has Been Transcribed For
Clarity, Continuity Of Thought, And Punctuation By
The LEM Transcribing & Editing Team.
PASTOR VITALE: Would you like to tell us about your Pentecostal experience - how you received Christ, what it means to you?
COMMENT: What specifically do you want to know?
PASTOR VITALE: Your testimony, however it comes. I would like to know what offended you.
COMMENT: Basically, when I was 12 years old, I had gotten involved in the Pentecostal movement. I learned the things that they taught me, but it just did not seem enough for me. I just kept searching, and searching. Prior to that, I knew a little of what I had been taught in the Catholic faith, but I still was not understanding a lot of things. It seems like there was a lot of restrictiveness in the Pentecostal movement, a lot of overbearing and strange, strict disciplines which I could not understand. As I got older, I broke away from it. I basically did not have too much of a religion at all. I searched out other things.
When I was in college I had always been interested in the feminist movement. I had read some dissertations. I also found out about how the feminist worshipped the goddess, what that involved, and what it was based on. Also, how the different missing legends from ancient times have come into being. I learned why these people believe there is a dead and how they relate to things like the earth, the sun, the heavens, and the moon. I learned how it all related to basically having different gods and goddesses.
For me, I had to make up my own mind, what I wanted to believe and what felt comfortable to me. What I basically feel right now, is that I still hold true the Holy Bible of Christ. Although I am disturbed that a lot of things that happened in the Old Testament seem like cruel punishments for things that we do. Today, I think in our human maturity, we will be able to better handle these things, rather than stone someone to death for something. Maybe a better understanding could evolve.
Where I am right now, I am trying to understand how I feel about what and where the creator is. Basically the creator is within us and without us, is the earth, sun, moon, and all creation. Yet there is still like a center core somewhere, where the creator is One day we will be able to return to this creator. The type of form we will be in will probably be totally different from what we are right now.
I am thinking that perhaps we are building towards being with the creator, and being here on earth is the testing field for us. How we do and how we do not do will depend on how close we can get to the creator.
PASTOR VITALE: Who is Christ to you? What is your definition of Christ?
COMMENT: Christ came from a creator in human form, in order to show an example of how we can live our lives better. Basically, what I saw is very hard and restrictive times at that time. Christ changed everything all around, in order to show people that they can be loved, to show love to one another, and not have the lawlessness or the cruelty that was going on. It was the way of the creator getting better in touch with the people rather than what was going on prior to that. Christ was sacrificed in order to allow us to be closer to the creator.
PASTOR VITALE: So where is He in your life now? When I pray in the name of Jesus or when I pray to Christ, you say you were offended. Do you think that God is a woman? Who is He to you?
PASTOR VITALE: Yes.
COMMENT: Well, Christ will be like the son of God.
PASTOR VITALE: So Christ is female and Christ is the son of God?
COMMENT: Right, but you see, the creator can be both. What I feel is, if the creator is perfect, why can the creator not be both in order to be more perfect?
PASTOR VITALE: Well, He is.
COMMENT: I have always been praying, thinking of the creator in the female sense because it is applicable to what I feel in my heart. As far as I know from the pharmacology and prayers that are done in the different ceremonies, spells, and things like that, that has helped me in my life. It has helped me to not have problems with answers to questions, where I have had medical mountains and anything else like that. It has always helped me to go through this like a peaceful meditation. Sometimes I have had to use things like candles, different light, or things like that.
PASTOR VITALE: If it is alright with you I will like to make some comments. Is it okay if I show you how I see what you just talked about? I would like to make some notes of the points I want to comment on because my memory is bad. This is what I want to comment on. The stoning in the Old Testament.... Did you say Christ or God is the central core of mankind?
COMMENT: Right, the creator will be the central core.
PASTOR VITALE: So it is not Christ, it is the creator then?
COMMENT: The creator.
PASTOR VITALE: You say, God, is that okay?
PASTOR VITALE: God is the central core and you said, God in the earth and beyond the earth? Is that how you said it, inside and outside?
COMMENT: Inside and outside, in the earth and out of the earth.
PASTOR VITALE: If I understood you correctly, you found a lot of religious works offensive in the Pentecostal Church, is that right?
PASTOR VITALE: That the works of the law was dress codes and things like....
COMMENT: Dress codes and the idea that women are supposed to keep silent in the Church. If you actually look at what the apostle Paul said. I think at the time the reason he may have said that was because there was a lot of what we will relate to as, chauvinistic oppression. It was a very male dominated society where the women were really segregated. In other words, in order to protect them, maybe at the particular instance, what he was talking about, that is what he was referring to.
PASTOR VITALE: I have heard a lot of natural explanations of why he said that, which may be true. However, I also know that Paul had deep spiritual understanding of the word. He had a revelation that the female is the person in the soul realm, the person here on the earth, and that he who is of spirit is the male in relationship to this creation. The Father God is the male in relationship to the creation.
This creation is his wife and each human being in their own heart has a carnal mind, which is female. If we have birthed the spirit of God, which is male, we then have the male in us. We find in the Scripture the Lord speaking about that woman Jezebel in the book of Revelation. He talks about Jezebel. and we are told that, that woman is a great city. I just saw it today in book of Revelation that, that woman, the harlot, is a great city. When Paul said, A woman should be silent in the church, what he was saying was that, The carnal mind in everybody should not be teaching the people who are spiritual.
It does not matter whether your body is physical male or female, because spiritual things have nothing to do with your body. That is what Paul said. The same man that said, The woman has to be silent in the church, said, There is no male or female in the church. He also said, We are not to quench prophesying, and a lot of women prophesy. He was an apostle of God, he cannot be that confused. It must be us that do not understand him. When Paul said, Let the woman be silent, he meant, Let the carnal mind of men be silent and let those who are spiritual teach. Since there is no male or female in Christ Jesus, it has nothing to do with your body. It has to do with who is talking out of your mouth. Is it your carnal mind or is it the Son of God. Are you okay?
COMMENT: Okay, that is not the way the gospel church will have....
PASTOR VITALE: No they do not. I believe the Pentecostal Church has the Spirit of God but the Spirit of God and the Word of God are two different aspects of the Godhead. We say it looks like it is a strange thing, but we see very little deep understanding of the scripture in the Pentecostal Church today. We find spiritual truth in Hinduism, and Buddhism and Jehovah Witnesses, but they do not have the spirit.
The word of the Lord to me is that when the proper time comes He is going to put in a people. He is going to put the word and the spirit together. When the word and the spirit are together in a human being, it is going to be a conversion, an explosion - a spiritual explosion that is going to result in a change in that human being. There is a season for this to happen. We are just entering into it now. That is why the Lord let it be split. This group of people who are very carnal, have the spirit. That group of people, who have a lot of spiritual wisdom, have the wisdom without the spirit because it was not time for the explosion yet. So God kept them separate. I have to agree with you, especially, did you say you were in the Assemblies of God?
COMMENT: I think the first church I went to was the Assemblies of God. They had broken off and started and a pastor had left and gone to Church of God.
PASTOR VITALE: I started with the Assemblies of God and then I went to the Church of God. You know we are not saying anything bad about these people. Everybody is doing the best that they can. However, we are called to be spiritual people. We start out carnal people, we are born carnal people, and when we come to Christ the challenge is to be converted from being carnally minded to being spiritually minded. We find a lot of people who think they are doing the right thing, but they really just put themselves under another law. Just like in the old covenant, you had to do the sacrifices and keep the works of the law. They do not seem to understand it, but in many areas they are still under the law.
Jesus wants to bring us higher. Everyone who starts to ascend spiritually is persecuted by the person who is more carnal. This we just find in church history. Every time a new move of God comes in, the layer below those who are more carnal always fights with the people who are trying to ascend higher into Christ. We see that antichrists have come into the world. John says, There are many antichrists in the world. Everybody has an antichrist in them, it is their carnal mind. The carnal minds of men are anywhere in male bodies and in female bodies. If you are yielding to your carnal mind, it makes you spiritual female. They are coming against the spiritual men. There is no male or female in Christ Jesus. If you are in a male body or a female body, if Christ is speaking through your mouth, you are a male.
We see the carnally minded people in the church doing everything they can to stop Christ from appearing. Who does He appear in? Is He a respecter of persons? Is this person better than that person? Why is he appearing in one and not in another? He is appearing in the man that is yielding to Him. The man that has a man made doctrine in his mind that says, for example, A woman has to keep silent in the church, completely contradicts the scripture to, Quench not prophesy if the woman has prophesy.
The person that will stick to the letter of the law is blocking Christ from coming forth in this life. The Lord is going to go to the people who will have an open heart towards Him. He is not a respecter of persons. However, a large number of the Church members will not let him in. Traditionally is in the Scripture, He just goes to somebody else. He goes to the people who let him in and He does not forget about the other people. He still tries to draw them but He is going first.... It is just like if you take water and you have a series of cups like a tub and the cups are closed and some of them have bigger opening than others. The water is going to rush through the bigger openings first.
God is not a respecter of persons, He loves everybody. The way this thing is set up, the minds of men reject Him and some reject Him more than others. The minds that reject Him mostly are the minds that have been taught man made doctrines. They have laid hold of man made doctrines, and they will not let go of them. Sometimes Jesus has to come in and give them a couple knocks to make them let go.
Everybody is doing the best they can to serve God and to be a decent person. However, this business with Christ is not a question of who is a good person, or who is doing the best they can. This creation is fallen. Christ fully intends to enter into the earth, by being revealed through men, and raise this creation back up to a higher spiritual realm. He loves us so much that He is going to get into the minds of the people who will let Him in to do the work that He has to do to raise up the whole creation. He is not a respecter of persons. He loves everybody but He is going to go to the people who receive him because He has work to do.
Jesus said that He is going to finish the work that the Father started. What is the work that the Father started? The Father did creation and He said, Let us make man in our likeness and in our image. What a lot of people do not understand is that we are not in the image of God. If we were truly in the image of God we would be without sin. Everybody has sin, so we are only God's likeness. What is it to be in God's likeness? To be in God's likeness, if you do a word study on it, means, to be made of the same substance. God is spirit and we are spirit, so we are therefore in God's likeness. To be in His image is to have His nature. God is perfect, merciful, and good, and men are imperfect and very frequently cruel and evil. So we are not yet in God's image. However, Jesus Christ has come to take that part of us which is in the likeness of the Father, our spirit, and to impress the image of the Father upon it. That is what Jesus' purpose is. He is not looking for good people. Sometimes the most wicked sinners convert to Christ. They are open to him and He gives them great experiences in Christ. Religious people cannot deal with it. It has nothing to do with how good you are, or what crimes you have committed in the past. Christ is looking for men who will yield to his spirit. Once you repent He will take you no matter what your background is. Are there any questions on this area right now?
Now with regards to the stoning, I will like to explain that to you. This creation is fallen, and it has the potential to be better or worse depending on the degree to which we are obeying the spiritual laws that exist in this world. There are spiritual worlds that existed. You do not have to be a Christian, you do not have to be an ancient Hebrew. Just as there are natural laws, if you fall from a ten story building your body is going to break. We know that the law is, you are going to reap what you sow and we know that, the sins of the fathers are visited on the children until the third and fourth generation. God had a purpose in Israel. He had a purpose in making a covenant with Abraham. He had a purpose in bringing forth the twelve tribes of Israel. Does anybody know what the purpose was?
COMMENT: Why did He go through....
PASTOR VITALE: Yes, why did He go through all this with Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, the twelve tribes? What was his purpose? Out of all of these it took Him probably a couple of thousand years. The purpose of God was to bring forth the seed. We are told in the book of Galatians that the seed that came out of Israel is Christ. What seed? What does that mean? It means, The man Jesus of Nazareth was the first cell of a new creation that is going to be born out of existing mankind. Existing mankind.... If you can, think of us as a worm that the spiritual man is dwelling in.
COMMENT: The spiritual children of Abraham?
PASTOR VITALE: You could say that, but it is really the children of Christ. Abraham had natural offspring and he had spiritual offspring. I have a message on that if you are interested in it. I have a message that there is a Church within the Church that Paul said it is a great mystery but there is a spiritual Church coming forth from within the carnal Church. He tells us that we should have mercy and understanding and compassion on the carnal people because they really do not understand what is happening. The truth is, a spiritual man (the man child in Revelation 12) is being formed in the womb of the minds of the carnal church. It is a great mystery, Paul says.
God's sole purpose in Israel was to bring forth the seed and the seed has to come forth from a holy people. From a people who know they were fallen people. They had curses, demons, and problems. They were fallen. God said to them I make a covenant with you if you keep this law I am going to input righteousness to you, and the Lord intended to keep this people holy to bring forth the seed. In those days there were no ways to spiritually cleanse somebody from sin. If someone got involved in adultery, just as an example, whatever else their crimes were, stoning was the answer for it.
The Lord had a choice of letting all of Israel be polluted (which would have hindered the coming forth of the seed) or killing the person. That was the only way, in those days, of stopping the plague from polluting all of Israel. If the Lord did not kill that one person, and all of Israel was polluted. The seed that was going to save the whole world would have never come forth. So what the Lord was saying was the most important thing here, was to get this holy seed (that was going to save the whole world) born. If we had one person over there that broke this law, he had to die now, lest he ruin the plan to save the whole world.
Now, in this new covenant (we have a better covenant) if somebody sins we have spiritual cleansing. It is called deliverance. It is by the spiritual power of God if you have a demon we have the authority to cast it out. We are told that if you have not received demons we have authority to forgive sins in the name of Jesus. The Lord told us that, I think it is in the book of John. Jesus said, He whose sins you have forgiven, are forgiven, and he whose sins you do not forgive, are not forgiven. We have authority to bring forth spiritual cleansing in this covenant, so we no longer have to kill people.
That is the difference. That was God's motive in doing that. We see this principle (not that it is demonstrated in the new covenant) but we see in the new covenant, that the high priest of Israel understood this. When the high priest sits speaking of Jesus, It is better that one man should die so that Israel can live. When they were talking about Jesus.... are you familiar with that scripture?
PASTOR VITALE: They were talking about crucifying Jesus for very ungodly motives. They felt that He had come to destroy Israel. The high priest said, Yes we justify killing this man because he is an evil person and he is going to destroy Israel. Then the Scripture goes on to say that even though the high priest was saying it out of his carnal mind, he did not know it but, He was prophesying that one man should die that all of Israel will be saved. I believe that is in one of the gospels. That principle was recognized by the Pharisees. That is why the law was so harsh, because the whole nation of Israel was on the line. The Lord knew how inflammatory sin was.
We saw the spies go into Canaan before the rest of the Hebrew children, who were out in the wilderness. They came back with the fruit, honey and all the good things of the land. They reported to the Hebrew children, But there are very great giants there. They took two witnesses from each tribe so twenty men went into Canaan. Caleb and Joshua came out and said, Yes we can do it we can take these giants we can do it. The other witnesses said, Oh no they are too big. This fear spread throughout the entire camp. There were thousands of people and a spirit of fear went through the whole camp. What was the result of it? Does anybody know what the result of it was? Anybody? The result of it was that generation did not enter in. That generation wandered in the wilderness, with the exception of the children that were too young to make a decision. They all died in the wilderness before the next generation entered in.
So the Father knows, He knew then, and He knows now, how inflammatory and contagious sin is. That was why He killed this people. He did it for the good of the whole existing nation, and the whole world; because he did not let it hinder the seed that was coming forth.
We find in the Scripture, a very important principle that, Frequently the Father does evil, but He does it with a righteous motive. When the Father does evil with a righteous motive, good comes out of it. That is why God can do things that men cannot do, because man and his root are selfish. Anyone that is really honest with themselves, if you really square root your motives down as far as you can go, there is something in it for you. For everything that we do, we are human, we are fallen, that is what we are like. That is not true of God. Everything He does to every single man, in His mind, is His intention of raising every human being alive. He is raising the whole creation out of the spiritual filth that we are dwelling in.
Paul said, The whole world lieth in wickedness. That means there is spiritual filth over us, out in the atmosphere, and there is spiritual filth within us. Isaiah said that the people are in great darkness, great darkness covers the people and gross darkness is within them. There is spiritual filth in the atmosphere and there is spiritual filth within us. The Father's intension, in everything that He does, is to deliver us from this bondage that He has been showing us is much more severe than the average human being could recognize.
You get used to anything, we get used to anything, we think our life is not so bad because we have never experienced heaven. The best example God has ever given me is a.... show that I saw where they interviewed a little seven year old that was being abused by his own family. They were abusing him since he was very, very young. He is only seven now and it has been going on for years. The camera zeroed in on his face when he took the picture and the kid said, Yea wow does that hurt. It was just a way of life to him.
So all existing.... in this earth compared to God is so terrible, that He is moving as rapidly as He can to get us out of here. In the message that we heard Sunday night we found Scriptures indicating that in God's mind we are in a white slavery. We have been held against our will, forced into spiritual adultery with the carnal mind of men that is keeping us in this realm of death. Some of us suffer more than others. If you have been out of it you are now on drugs, if you have been on the street or anything like that. You probably have suffered a lot more than someone who seems to have had a decent life. They have grown up with no problems in their family, gone to college. They are making a million dollars a year, everything looks fine to you, but in their own way they are in hell also. Whether it is in poverty, whether it is emotional problems, unhappiness in your marriage, divorce, or whatever it is. This world, compared to heaven, is hell. It is hell.
God put that law down and it seems harsh to the human mind, which is a fallen mind, we cannot comprehend Him. We always think evil of Him because our minds are too small to comprehend Him. He did it as an act of love that was necessary to save this whole creation. Are there any questions in this area?
COMMENT: God the central core.
PASTOR VITALE: God the central core. I wanted to make some comments on what the Lord has shown us here. We have to agree with you, but maybe I will just say it a little differently. A lot of people believe that God is the central core and He is the central core of every man, including fallen man. In that, a drop of Him, in the form of the human spirit, is in every human being alive. However, the human spirit is dead. When Christ comes to you He brings a quickening to that human spirit. That is what is being raised from the dead, our human spirit. When He is completely raised from the dead He will give life to our soul. Initially it is our human soul that is being raised from the dead.
The Father is in the process of reproducing Himself. The Lord is invisible, He is not seen. He has no form or shape, and He intended to be seen. He brought forth a seed, a female seed, because He is male and female. He brought forth the female out of His own life and I always say, There is no Mrs God. The Lord wanted to reproduce and He brought forth a female seed out of His own substance.
We found a very great mystery. We found that this realm is the soul realm and it is standing exactly opposite the realm of the spirit. We are the mirror image of spiritual things, so spiritual things appear backwards here. We found out that if you do a study on how lower life forms and plants reproduce, you will find that, that's how spiritual life reproduces. The reproduction methods of spiritual life are higher than soul. If you are looking for examples of it in this world, is not in men. It is in plants and microscopic.... lower like one cell down than most. Not animals but one celled division. God reproduces with cell division.
COMMENTS: God created us so that He will have a creation that have fellowship with Him. However, He is not reproducing himself, because that will just make a whole bunch of clones, a whole bunch of Christ. We are our own individual. That bothered me anytime you said, Reproduce. It was just irritating me.
PASTOR VITALE: I just pray that God will give me a way to explain this to you. What you are saying is really not in the Scripture. If you could show it to me in the Scripture without striving.... It is really not there. God is self-contained. There is nothing that He needs. He does not need our fellowship. There is nothing that He needs from us XXXX, absolutely nothing that He needs. He is a sun, He is an energy source. He is constantly giving off. The sun in the sky does not receive anything, anything that comes in contact with the sun burns up.
COMMENTS: He is not lacking emotionally.
PASTOR VITALE: We only have two microphones. Did you just say he is not lacking emotionally?
PASTOR VITALE: I have a whole series on it. Well God is bringing forth a Son, is that not reproduction? God is having a Son, He has a Son. Is that not reproduction?
COMMENTS: His Son is Him and is always, was before the beginning of time. The Son has always been a part of him....
PASTOR VITALE: No, the Son is not created, but He is bringing forth His son from seed. He is begetting His son. Is not Jesus the only begotten Son? He was begotten. He is a Son, so who was the Father's wife? Where did it come from? Begotten, Amen.
COMMENTS: The Garden of Eden
PASTOR VITALE: The Garden. Amen. Who was the female element? If the Father is the male and the Father had a son, who is the mother?
PASTOR VITALE: Mary is not the mother because the Holy Spirit hovered over Mary and implanted the seed of God in her. She just carried it, she was the womb, she was the surrogate mother. She was not the mother of Jesus.
COMMENTS: What does surrogate mean?
PASTOR VITALE: She was just the carrier. Let me answer the question for you. We are told that, Eve is the mother of all living.
PASTOR VITALE: So Eve in you, your human spirit, is bearing the Christ child of Revelation 12.
COMMENTS: What do you mean revelation 12?
PASTOR VITALE: Revelation 12 talks about the man child and the Scriptures say that, She shall be saved in child bearing, referring not to human women having a baby, but to the creation who was female in relationship to God. We shall all be saved when we bear the Christ child. So the whole Scripture is about reproduction and spiritual sexuality. It is offensive to some people but it is there, And she shall be saved in child bearing.
COMMENTS: Is that what it means?
PASTOR VITALE: That is what it means.
COMMENTS: It does not mean that the woman will be saved in bringing forth natural children?
PASTOR VITALE: Well I know lots of women that are natural children are wicked, some of the most wicked people I have ever met and they are certainly not saved.
COMMENTS: Okay go on now I receive that one.
PASTOR VITALE: The Father is reproducing Himself, but not in the way you just thought. Let me explain how He is reproducing Himself. He is reproducing Himself in that He is appearing in another form. He still stays God. It is a great mystery. There is so much substance to Him that He brings Himself forth in another form. In what form? In the form of the Son. Jesus said, I and the Father are one, but Jesus also said the father is greater than I.
COMMENTS: He did say that.
PASTOR VITALE: Yes. Jesus said, I am God but yet the Father is greater than I.
COMMENTS: Only because He did not go back to the Father?
PASTOR VITALE: What it means is that the Father, when He is in pure spirit form, is ultimate. However, when it is God in the flesh, there is for a season, a weakness. As compared to the Father who is the pure spirit. I am weaker than the Father, I am limited, whereas the Father is totally unlimited. That is why I do not do anything that He does not tell me to do.
PASTOR VITALE: Sometimes I say things that you may misunderstand. When I say, The Father is reproducing Himself, what I mean is, He is causing Himself to appear in another form. That form is mankind. Mankind is going to be in the image of God - a man whose mind is going to be a mind of God.
COMMENTS: So when Paul and Peter are walking round in the anointing of the Holy Ghost, when people saw them, they saw Christ.
PASTOR VITALE Yes they say Christ, but it will have been a spiritual discernment. To be in the image of God is not the way your face looks. It is your nature.
COMMENTS: That is what I meant, like even the unsaved saw Christ in Paul and he went, Wow, and he got converted.
PASTOR VITALE: Yes
COMMENTS: That is what God wants to do in these days.
PASTOR VITALE: Yes, He wants to do it in you.
PASTOR VITALE: Not that you are going to be a god. He wants to come and live in you in such strength that He is going to do all these miracles through you. Your mind (which is carnal) and the mind of God are going to be woven together. That will not injure God, but the weaving together of your mind with the mind of God will make you a vessel through whom He can do anything that He wants.
COMMENTS: Until it dies off completely.
PASTOR VITALE: Until what dies off completely?
COMMENTS: The carnal mind.
PASTOR VITALE: Yes it will die off completely eventually.
COMMENTS: That is the death of death.
PASTOR VITALE: Yes, that is the glorification.
COMMENTS: He has been doing that for the last two thousand years. Each generation grew up and died and after that we may grow up and die. People all through those generations were getting saved and God was just adding.
PASTOR VITALE: Well, that is true, but not exactly the way you are saying it. What has been happening for the past two thousand years is the Glorified Christ is pouring out of His spirit upon all flesh. He is intending to do the same thing in men that He did in the man Jesus. He has not done it in anybody since the day of the apostles. Why? He ascended on high and He is pouring out of his spirit as seed and that seed is landing in the hearts of men. Two thousand years later (It is a spiritual thing. I do not know why it took that long) He is starting to come forth in this generation. The others (who He did not complete the procedure in) yes, their human spirit is with the Father.
COMMENTS: They will have a glorified body?
PASTOR VITALE: There is only one glorified body. It is going to be one. We are all going to reach glorification as we turn to spirit. We are all going to be turned to spirit. When you are all spirit and I am all spirit it is just going to be spirit. All the boundaries are coming down. Your physical body is a boundary that is enclosing your spiritual life.
COMMENTS: The one that the work was not completed in and they went home to be with the Father, they went home to be with God.... use the thief for example. Jesus said, This day you will be with me in paradise, He went to be with God in paradise as spirit.
PASTOR VITALE: Yes, amen.
COMMENTS: And his soul?
PASTOR VITALE: Not his soul, his spirit. The soul that sins, dies.
COMMENTS: But he repented on the cross, so he was saved.
PASTOR VITALE: No, the soul that sins dies. The only soul that is going to not die is the soul of the man whose spirit is completely resurrected from the dead. Then, when your spirit is completely resurrected from the dead, He is going to give life to your soul. However, the soul is just clay XXXX. Your true life is in your human spirit and this is where most people get confused. It is confusing. I am the first one to admit that.
COMMENTS: You know what you are talking about.
PASTOR VITALE: Yes, you are not your soul, you are spirit. Your soul is a garment, your soul is a dress that you wear.
COMMENTS: But that thief is going to appear with us in the kingdom of God.
PASTOR VITALE: His spirit, His spirit,
COMMENTS: His spirit
PASTOR VITALE: Amen His spirit, the soul is just clay.
COMMENTS: The unregenerated sinner will not appear with us in the kingdom of God.
PASTOR VITALE: His spirit is going back to God.
COMMENTS: He will not appear like the thief did in Paul, the apostle, He will not appear with us who are saved.
PASTOR VITALE: I will say amen to that.
COMMENTS: That is the benefit. That is the reward. That is the gift from God right, eternal life for obedience?
COMMENTS: He is saying different ones will have different rewards in the kingdom.
PASTOR VITALE: You are saying different ones will have different rewards in the kingdom?
COMMENTS: Well that also yes, that is true also.
PASTOR VITALE: No. Everyone is getting the same reward. Jesus said, The one who comes into the garden at midnight gets the same wage as the one who is laboring all his life. It is spiritual childishness to say, I did such and such a good thing and I am going to get a better reward than my brother. The Lord is not like that. We are all fallen. No matter how many good works that we do, we are all fallen and the reward is that we are going to be raised from the dead. Nobody is going to be raised halfway, a quarter way or two thirds of the way. When you are raised from the dead, you are raised from the dead. Everybody is getting raised from the dead.
COMMENTS: Obedience to God is eternal life.
PASTOR VITALE: The reward for obedience is right here and now. You reap what you sow, there are rewards right here in this life.
COMMENTS: Yes this life.
PASTOR VITALE: You reap what you sow. When you are obedient to God, you reap great blessings. When you are rebellious towards God, you reap curses and judgment from God. Eternal life, God is raising the all. He is reconciling the all unto God.
COMMENTS: You mean even the unregenerated sinner is going to appear in spirit form in the kingdom of God?
PASTOR VITALE: No.
COMMENTS: So then they are not getting that reward because they were disobedient? That is a direct question.
PASTOR VITALE: I am trying very hard not to go too deep but I cannot get away from it. So let me explain it to you.
COMMENTS: I have been trying to get this out of you for a....
PASTOR VITALE: I am going to do the best I can. God, at the beginning of time, formed one living soul. The Scripture liken him to a plant. We are the planting of the Lord Amen? Can you say, Amen, to that?
PASTOR VITALE: We are the planting of the Lord, and this planting has produced many leaves. Each of us is a leaf on the plant of humanity. There is only one plant. Now If I were to have three or four of those leaves off, the plant would still exist and the root would still exist. We are likened to leaves on the plant. Now the Scripture at the first Adam was the living soul and at the last Adam was a quickening spirit. So we see that the Father has joined His Son to the earth and He is bringing forth the creation from seed. He is the begotten Son that means that He is going to start very small and grow up. He started as a soul man. We are the present results of that original creation that the Father formed at the beginning of time, but we fell so we are vial in many ways. Are you with me?
COMMENTS: Yes I knew all that already.
PASTOR VITALE: There is only one man and we are his immaturity. Just like there was a little boy named XXXX XXXX, that was one year old and there was another XXXX XXXX in a two year old body and then there was a XXXX XXXX in a three year old body, four five, six, seven, eight. What happened to all those bodies? What happened to those bodies, is they were swallowed up into your maturity.
PASTOR VITALE: All of your experiences and the one, two, three, four, five year old is now appearing with you in the adult XXXX XXXXof twenty whatever years you are.
PASTOR VITALE: They are appearing with you in that they were your true experiences. They are, they say in the world that We are the sum total of everything that we have experienced in this life.
COMMENTS: Right I knew that already.
PASTOR VITALE: With regards to the spiritual man (the unregenerated sinner in whom Christ has never appeared) Christ is not having experience in him. The Father takes back his spirit and the life time of that man is forgotten - wiped out. He will not be a memory in the Glorified Christ.
COMMENTS: But we will be?
PASTOR VITALE: If Christ is living through you in any measure, His experiences in you are a part of His childhood that will be appearing with Him in glory – the merriest of the experiences that He had in you.
COMMENTS: Do you have any questions XXXX. I do not want to take over the show, I have just got a lot of things that I want to ask but I want even it out.
COMMENTS: Revealing it this way is more enlightening to me as far as the kind of the place where the Christ is meant to be. It shows the Pentecostal Church that the Christ is the God - that the Christ is God but revealing it this way and making it better understanding. Looking from the outside it makes the Christ look even more important than the Pentecostals can ever explain it.
PASTOR VITALE: They have a very childish concept of it.
COMMENTS: What you are saying is giving more glory to Christ. You are giving Him more pre-eminence. You have given Him more glory by saying that, that is what He is doing and you are taking away from men. Yes I agree. But God included us in the plan, He did not.... alright I will ask you, I will not make the statement. Did He not want us to be part of this plan or is He just wiping out man completely so He can just have Christ appear?
PASTOR VITALE: No, we are included in this. We are included in this, but the biggest problem that is happening today is, at the beginning of time there was a tragedy. The creation that God said was good got into trouble, and it failed. Ever since it failed, men have been doing their own thing. God is going this way and we are going this way. That cannot be. We must come to be of one mind with Christ. Right now almost all of the Lord's effort is to get us into line with Him. It s is like our minds got loose and before He can weave the two of them together.... because the Scripture says that the Father is weaving a garment. Are you familiar with that? Christ is weaving a garment that is going to cover the invisible God. When that garment comes over, the Lord it is going to reveal Him. The example that we use here is the invisible man. Did you ever see that movie? The Invisible Man?
God is invisible.... The Invisible Man puts bandages on his head and a jacket, shoes, and socks on. You could see that you are talking to a man. We are the bandages and the jacket. We are the garment that God is weaving so that He can be revealed in this world. He wants to be seen.
COMMENTS: If only the memory of what we did in the spirit (what we did in Christ) is going to be remembered in heaven, are we going to remember anything at all in the kingdom of God? Are we going to know that, or are we going to realize that we are who we are in Christ, in the kingdom of God? Or are we just completely going to be forgotten about? Like the unregenerated sinner is completely forgotten about.
PASTOR VITALE: Yes, that lifetime is completely forgotten. We are going to appear with Jesus just as when He showed His glory on the mount. Moses and Elijah were there, we are going to be much a part of His life as they are. I do not have any more information about it. I just know this that eye has not seen and ears have not heard the marvelous things that God has in store for us. it has to be, when I give you a natural example of your five year old XXXX being a part of your memory, it is going to be much greater than that.
COMMENTS: When we look at ourselves we are going to say, Thank you Jesus for what you have done. We are going to be, we are going to be. Are we not going to be?
PASTOR VITALE: Yes. You see this creation is going up in stages and for a season we are going to be like Paul was. He said, I live but not that Christ lives within me. So in that stage, we will definitely be saying, Thank you Jesus for what you have made out of me. You have brought me to a place where I do not sin anymore or a snake bites me and I throw it off and I am not hurt or where I can die. We will go through that stage, but then we are going to go even further. We are going to return into spirit and I don't know what that is going to be like. It is going to be good.
COMMENTS: Unregenerated sinner is missing out on all of this.
PASTOR VITALE: The unregenerate sinner that you know today is missing out on this but the dead human spirit in his heart. The Father is taking back but the personality, (the man that you know by the name, say your name is XXXX, XXXX, out there who is unregenerate sinner) is going to be forgotten. You will not be remembered. Does not the Scripture say, Only what you do for Christ will be remembered? Only what you do for Christ will be remembered. All of your sins will be forgotten and all of your carnal works will be forgotten. The only thing that is going into the kingdom is the work that you have done for Christ or the work that He has done through you. Everything else is going to be forgotten and the unregenerate sinner (that man, that personality) will be forgotten.
He is taking back the life of Christ that is in him, who is a part of God. It was in him but it was never stimulated back into life. It is like the talent that was buried under the earth that gave no increase. The Lord said, I will take it back I will give it to someone else.
COMMENTS: He will not be tormented forever and ever?
PASTOR VITALE: No, he will not be tormented forever and ever. He is going to dissolve, he is just dirt. He is dirt.
COMMENTS: .... That is merciful.
PASTOR VITALE: I think it is a just recompense because the Scripture says, A life for a life. So if you live your life as an unregenerate sinner and you hurt people you are suppose to be hurt. If you kill you are supposed to be killed. Scripture says, Every sin must have its just recompense. There is nothing in the Scripture that indicates that burning in hell for eternity is a just recompense, even for Hitler. I cannot see it. If you want, torture Hitler for thirty years, or hundred years, but for eternity? It is not just the nature of our God to do that.
COMMENT: I have never heard that before. The idea of eternally burning (like a fire- in order to punish sinners) will seem to be really illogical if the creator is totally perfect; who can create such a creation, with all the marvelous things in the world, and be able to create a plan of salvation. There should be a way of changing the person, and if the person is still unrepentant, it does not mean the creator should destroy it. It is just like if you birth a child and the child, as he is growing up, still has flaws; the child does not change. That does not mean when he/she becomes an adult you just shun or kill him/her off and say, Well you know you are no good to creation.
PASTOR VITALE: You do everything you can to convert them to try and learn.
COMMENTS: Out of love. That is what the creator is showing. Human kind may be a disaster, but the creator is at a higher level. So eventually what will happen is the creator should be able to absorb and change that spirit (that unrepentant spirit). You understand what I am saying? I cannot put them to words because I see them more in symbols and figurative.
PASTOR VITALE: You want me to say it for you? I know what you are trying to say, and I have been saying this for a long time, This is God almighty that we are talking about, do you mean to tell me that God almighty does not have the strength to turn that man around? What an insult to the Lord. Is that not what you are saying?
COMMENTS: Yes. It sounds like God is a weak thing and if you go to church and God does not change you in your church, then that is it. That is the end of it. The Church really does retard the work of God. They really do make God seem like retard.
PASTOR VITALE: Retard the work of God?
COMMENTS: Hold back
COMMENTS: Now we can go out and tell people about Jesus so that they can have life and do it out of love so that they can have life. Not so we can pull them out of hell. We can look at it a different way when we go out and witness.
PASTOR VITALE: Absolutely, the Lord loves people and everybody is in some measure of hell. I have been saying it for a long time, The message that is being preached today will touch people whose lives are really painful, but people whose lives are not really painful are not going to receive this message. Well, you did not receive the message. They are not going to receive this message they are just not going to believe it.
If this is the truth of word - the spirit of the word, that is coming forth now, it is going to convert the world. The love of God for His creation is the love of God that wants to raise us up out of the hell. A lot of us do not even realize we are in hell because it is not bad. For a lot of people it is just not so bad.
COMMENTS: Now I have to learn not to take every scripture on hell that they teach. I heard a full teaching on hell. I sat under it and I know exactly what they can use to prove it. Now I need to learn how we can take each one of those scriptures and be able to explain what it really means. If I cannot do that, then how can I give an answer to every man that asks the reason for my faith? Can you do that? I will not do it now because that might take a long time. You said, God's arm is not too short that it cannot save, is that what you said?
PASTOR VITALE: The Scripture said, Is God's hand too short that he cannot deliver?
COMMENTS: So prayer makes a difference, glory to God. If you believe predestination you probably will say, I do not have to pray, God is going to do it all. Right? If we pray for somebody, God said he will answer those things that we ask Him right?.... I see you shake on that one now I want to see what you say about that.
PASTOR VITALE: Well there is such a thing as predestination. Let me remind you of what I said earlier. It is not that God is a respecter of persons, it is his intention to save the whole creation and He has a plan as to how He is going to do it. God's plan is to bring forth first one man (that was Jesus Christ of Nazareth) that attained to total dominion over his carnal mind - to the point that He did not sin.
Then, the next step is to bring forth a handful of men that are of the same spiritual stature. He is going to send them out to bring people into Christ. If while He is doing this, there are people who die, it is just part of God's plan. They are not burning in hell forever. They are like the leaves on the tree that fell off, but God is saving the whole tree. Salvation will come in future generation. It will come in their children or their grandchildren.
Where you are stumbling (everybody has a problem with this) is that it is only the last generation where the soul is going to be saved. The soul is just dust. The reality of every human being is their spirit. The soul is a garment made out of dust. If the soul of this particular person is not saved, what it means is, we are told in the Scripture that in the wilderness the shoes did not wear out of the Hebrew children. It is just like saying these shoes wore out and they turned back to dust, but they are just dust.
We are spirit. The reason men have so much trouble recognizing that we are not this personality or body, but that we are spirit, is we are so completely joined to Satan, the unconscious part of the carnal mind, at this point, that this is what we think we are. However, the Lord is embarking upon a program to separate our spirit. Our spirit is woven together with Satan, the unconscious part of the carnal mind, and we are told that, Satan is the works of the garment. We have scriptures on it. She is going this way and that, our quickened human spirit is the wove and it is going this way. This is the condition of the carnal man in this hour.
PASTOR VITALE: Okay, so the Lord is going to do a miracle. This is likened to your shirt which is fabric that is woven together. It is like me saying to you, I am just going to save the threads that are going one way. It is impossible, but with God all things are possible. He is giving us a miracle. He is only getting the threads that go this way out. He is getting rid of the threads going this way. When He gets this thread out, (when He gets rid of the wove which is Satan, the unconscious part of the carnal mind), and we just have the threads which are going this way, He is going to bring in the spirit of the Father, who is Christ. He is going to reweave us. We are going to be woven together in Christ. Then we are going to be forever with the Lord.
COMMENTS: You know why I asked you that? My cousin use to be in XXXX worldwide Church of God, and I got a lot of information from him. It all just started coming back to my memory now and he told me that we do not have to pray for people to get saved. He told me that we do not have to go out trying to witness to them and we give them tracts and we tell them about Jesus because Jesus said that only those that the Father has given me vice versa.
PASTOR VITALE: .....
COMMENTS: There is another scripture like that though, Those that are called by the Father like Jesus.
PASTOR VITALE: I will comment on that.
COMMENTS: Let me just finish up. Anyway, when he said that to me it was like saying that God is going to do it. He is bringing in and He is doing the work and we do not have to pray, rack our minds, witness, and all that. God's will is going to be done no matter what. So it just seems as if he is getting out of what God commissioned us to do.
PASTOR VITALE: Let me answer that for you. I agree with him but I go beyond him. God is going to get it done, but God is going to get it done through men. Every believer does not have the same assignment, and every believer does not have the same measure of spiritual power.
When you are a.... I do not know if, New Christian, is the right term or not, I hate to say, Carnal Christian. I do not mean to offend anybody. However, if you are a believer without spiritual power there is no other way to say it. We have a whole church of Christians that do not have any spiritual power. If that is where you are, God is going to use what you can do. If all that you know is to go out and give tracts and offer yourself to people, God will use it. I think that there is a place in God's kingdom for everybody. If that is what you are, and that is what you can do, God will use it. Go and give your tracts.
From the time that you start to enter into a spiritual work with the Lord, you just go to the one that God sends you. Jesus clearly said that when you are a young Christian you go to dress yourself. That means you are going to go out and do your own thing, but when you are older another will dress you. What that means, is, when you get more mature.... What is maturity? It is spirituality. When you start to respond to the direction of the Lord, you will go to people that He sends you to. His purpose will be accomplished in everyone He sends you to. If you are still young and cannot recognize the sending of Christ, you go out and give out tracts. That is wonderful, so use it, but as you get older....
COMMENTS: Do you pray for people?
PASTOR VITALE: I pray for people but let me tell you the difference between the way a lot of people pray. I do not believe that you have to spend hours on your knees begging God to save somebody. I believe that you go before the Lord and you say, Father would you please save them? Then, from time to time as they come to your mind, you can ask the Lord. What a lot of Christians are doing is putting their will into these prayers. I think that, that is an error. I do not think that we should be doing that. We have to be doing things by His spirit, by His spirit.
COMMENTS: That is why we should not strive.
PASTOR VITALE: We should not strive, yes but be at peace. If you pray for somebody bless them. I bless people, I ask God, I say, Lord would you give them the very most that you are willing to give them? Bless them, help them, raise them up? That is what I pray. I am very spiritual XXXX. As people pass through my mind I sometimes pray very anointed prayers. Almost every prayer that I pray under that kind of anointing comes to pass. Not everybody is that spiritual, and that is okay. Just like you give your five year old child a job in the house, you give your ten year old a job in the house, but you give your fifteen year old more responsibility.
I call it, The Bride Church, the female manifestation of the Church. It is their job to give out tracts, to hold rallies in central park, to do everything that the visible Church is doing. There is a Church within the Church that are moving into becoming spiritual. When you become spiritual you become spiritually male. What it means is when Christ is being revealed through you, it has nothing to do with your body. You become spiritually male. Those people in the Church that are spiritual are usually hidden. It is the female that is seen out there. The female manifestation of the Church that is not spiritual. The spiritual manifestation of the church, I mean who is going to find me? God has to send you to me. Maybe someday you will know that this is a miracle, for the two of you. Who is going to find me? Maybe you get a hold of a message. You know I have a lot of messages. They are all over the country. We mail them out all over the country and in other countries. It has to be that everyone who comes here, comes by a move of the spirit, even if they get the message.
I received a letter from somebody in Haiti. I do not know anyone in Haiti. The man said to me that he saw my name and the Holy Ghost spoke to him and told him to write to me. That is how people get to me.
As you mature in Christ, you become more spiritual, and you become more under the control of Christ. When it is Christ praying through you, the scripture says, Not one word falls to the ground. I will not tell you that none of my prayers fall to the ground. I am not saying that about myself. What I am saying is, when the Christ prays through me. If it is truly the Christ that prays, it does not fall to the ground. It is a sign of maturity. I am not better than anyone. It is for everybody. The Lord is saying, Come, but there are certain things that you have to do to get to be spiritual. One of the things you usually need is deliverance. The other thing is the truth of the spirit of the word. He wants to do it to everybody that is willing to come. He wants to make you a spiritual Christian.
COMMENTS: I receive everything you said.....
PASTOR VITALE: Praise God, Praise the Lord.
COMMENTS: Why am I your worst enemy?
PASTOR VITALE: I did not say enemy, I said, Critic, did I not? I did not say enemy.
COMMENTS: Not enemy like.... Critic is not the word.
PASTOR VITALE: I did not say, Critic?
COMMENTS: No, it sounds like he is playing devil's advocate.
PASTOR VITALE: I do not think you are my enemy XXXX. I never think you are my enemy but you are a serious critic, and that is alright.
COMMENTS: I need to know how I am going to answer to someone else if I am going to know what you are teaching me. I want to share (if the Lord leads me) to someone else. I have to know what I believe and I have to be able to go into the word of God and say where it says it.
PASTOR VITALE: You should not be studying under any preacher that will not answer your questions. You can ask me any question you want. I told you before, The only time I will stop a conversation with somebody is when is a spirit that is trying to prove me wrong. Then, there is no fruit that can come out of it.
COMMENTS: I understand.
PASTOR VITALE: I will answer any legitimate question. If I cannot answer it I will tell you that I cannot.
COMMENTS: I just want to say when he was saying should we pray for men. The Scripture came to mind where the Lord was saying that He wants all men to be saved. He will have all men to be saved. He says in the first part of that chapter, I exhort all men therefore first of all supplications, prayer and intercessions and giving of thanks be made for all men, kings and those in authority so that we can live quiet and peaceable life with God in honesty. This is good and acceptable in the sight of our God who will have all men to be saved and come into the knowledge of the truth. I was thinking of that, He is going to do it. God is going to do it. He is going to use men, but He is saying to pray, to use supplications, prayers and assertions - the whole thing.
PASTOR VITALE: I think the problem is what people's definition of prayer is. Some Christians think they have to get down on their knees for 3 hours and say, Save them Lord, save them Lord, save them Lord, I bind this I rebuke that and that. What I am saying is that putting your own will into it hinders the Lord. I pray for almost everybody that comes into my life, I say, Lord save their soul, have mercy on them Lord. I do not get into this bondage of this religious ritual.
COMMENTS: Paul said, Since I heard of your faith I have not ceased to keep on praying for you. I think for the Colossians or someone.
PASTOR VITALE: Paul also said, Pray without ceasing. Now the question is, What does he mean by that? The question is, Did Paul spend his whole life on his knees binding and loosing over these Colossians? I am going to suggest to you that he did not. When he said, Pray without ceasing, and, I have not stopped praying for you, what he meant is, he put them in his heart.
The way we think towards people are blessings or curses. We do not have to be pronouncing a curse on somebody, but if we permit ourselves to be carnal and to dislike somebody.... We are supposed to resist that. If we do not resist it, we are sending out curses towards them. We put them in our heart in a loving way and if they just pass through our mind from time to time and we say, Oh yes, the Colossians, I really hope God does everything He can do for them. That is how you pray without ceasing. You put them in your heart in a positive way, were all the good things that flow through you (through the soul tie that you establish with them) are going towards them. How else could you pray without ceasing?
COMMENTS: When you pray without ceasing it is the whole day, you have your heart acknowledging God. That is praying without ceasing. That in everything you do in action. Everything you speak is pleasing to God and that is like praying without ceasing. You think of it in your mind, you ever pray in your mind, even when you are driving. You are always praying right? That is praying without ceasing right?
PASTOR VITALE: Not with your carnal mind. The carnal mind repeats this religious ritual. The heart of Christ in you is always turned towards God. It is the heart of Christ in you that prays without ceasing (your good thoughts towards this people).
I have some very spiritual experiences. I spend hours on that computer and I study. I study for hours for each message that I bring forth. You will not believe what goes through my mind. People just pass through my mind. I say, Lord what do you want me to pray for them? I know when He comes that way, whatever I pray, it is done, because the Father has brought them down to my memory. I get words of knowledge and I know what people are thinking.
You told me you are going through a hard time and I said, I know, and you said, No. Remember that? I know not everything of everybody, but what the Father tells me. I know what people are thinking. I know what people are feeling. I knew somebody was very afraid tonight. I thought it was XXXX. I find out that people have needs. I see all kinds of spiritual experiences in the spirit. When I pray under those circumstances, they are delivered.
I have many experiences I get a lot of dreams. Just to give you an example, I woke having a dream it was a terrible dream. I woke up all upset. The dream was about a little girl or some unhappy circumstances. After many years of living like this I knew that somebody was in trouble. It is always somebody that I know that I have a soul tie with that the Lord has put in my heart. I just prayed for her, rebuked the situation, and I asked God to help her. I did not know who it was. I knew it had to be someone that I knew but I did not know who it was. I said, Lord, if you want her to call me, have her call me. Within two hours the phone call came. It was everything that happened in the dream. Not only did I pray for her, but I counseled her.
COMMENTS: I was going to ask you. I had this beautiful dream and had to do with the ocean. I was on the beach and there was this big hole in the sand. Then there was the regular dirty ocean with the sea weed in it and everything like that. There was this big hole in the sand and I said, Wow let me go down in there and let me see what that is.
So I went down through the hole and I came out to another beach underneath the sand. It was beautiful. The water was like crystal blue and clear. Someone that I knew came back swimming and said, Boy it is beautiful out there. You have to go down, you could swim underneath and you could see all the beautiful fish and all the beautiful crab and sea life. I was like, Really? I dived in and it was just precious. It was just great. The dream was so good. I woke up and I had a lot of joy over that dream, but yet I do not know whether it is just a regular dream, or my imagination, or if it had anything spiritual. I want to ask you.
PASTOR VITALE: The Lord has shown us that heaven or, the Garden of Eden, is really in another dimension. It is lying underneath our carnal mind. It is lying underneath this world. Spiritually, you could say, Underneath, or, Behind this world. Jesus said to Peter, (when Peter was telling him not to go to the cross), Get thee behind me Satan. What does that mean? He said, Carnal mind get behind him.
Only one mind can be upfront at a time - either your carnal mind or the mind of Christ. This whole world system is really just an illusion. It is an image. The whole creation is spirit. This is just an illusion, but for us it is real because we are fallen. Its only reality is spirit. This whole world is a projection of a mind. It is an image that is projected by a mind that is far superior to our individual mind. This world is projected by the carnal mind whose God is Satan.
This is what happened, the Lord showed it to us. At the beginning of time, there was a creation it was called Eden. Satan, the unconscious part of the carnal mind, got loose and arose from underneath the earth of Satan. A big crack appeared in the creation - like you would see in an earthquake. A big crack opened up in the ground. It started to spread so this was Eden out here and this is the land of the Nod. This world system is called, The World of Nod.
COMMENTS: Why is it called that....?
PASTOR VITALE: It means, The land of sleep. That is the land that came with Spanish too, it is the land of sleep. This is the image that is projected by Christ Eden is the image that is projected by Christ. Nod is the image that is projected by the carnal mind. She broke through from underneath and rolled back this illusion like a scroll. Are you familiar with that scripture? The heavens are going to roll back like a scroll. She rolled back the heaven of Eden as a scroll, she kept moving back and back.
COMMENTS: Is that in Revelation, the heaven roll back like a scroll?
PASTOR VITALE: It is in Revelation and I believe it is in Isaiah, it is in the prophets also. She just rolled back until you could not see anything back in Eden. All you had was Nod. We found in the book of Daniel that Christ, at the beginning of time (who is typified by a ram in Daniel 8) could no longer sustain because it was His superior mind projecting the land of the Garden of Eden. When the carnal mind knocked him down, it broke his strength. He could no longer sustain the image of Eden. The carnal mind overtook Him. We found Scriptures that say, She went beyond Eden and she covered over the garden of Eden.
This world, that we live in now, is lying on top of Eden. What is about to happen, in the very near future, is a superior mind is coming into this world. It is the mind of Christ and very soon it is going to appear in a company of men who are going to be thinking with the mind of Christ. A big crack is going to appear in this world. Hallelujah, glory to God.
We read about this in Revelation 9. Remember, the carnal mind sees the Scripture backwards. The carnal Church tells you that the locusts of Revelation 9 (which are coming up from under the earth) are demons, not the sons of God. They are coming back from underneath the earth. There is going to be a big earthquake and Eden is going to start to appear. It is going to roll back this world like a scroll and Nod is going to disappear. It is going to be Eden again.
COMMENTS: I was saying you had the dream the night before last night.
PASTOR VITALE: You were going to a world that was underneath the surface. Now the carnal mind says, Heaven is up there somewhere, but remember our carnal mind has everything backwards. It is underneath or behind, heaven is behind. Satan cannot uncover this world over with her spiritual filth.
COMMENTS: What I saw was that was transferring from one beach to another. You went down under and you went down under the earth, and you found Eden on the other side. Eden is your new unconscious mind, which is Christ, is that not correct Sheila? You transfer from that carnal mind (the other beach) and you went down under and you transferred over and went into the new unconscious mind of Christ.
COMMENTS: You want to know who is in that dream?
COMMENTS: XXXX, you know not XXXX that is XXXX.
PASTOR VITALE: Let me tell you why I am laughing, most of the time the person you see in the dream is that person. The reason I am laughing is he said that he is a little retarded. That is how God sees the human race. That is why I am laughing. I believe his presence in your dream was the Lord saying to you, The rest of the retarded humanity is coming with you. You know that little retarded girl who comes to the meeting sometimes, XXXX. She has been in several of my dreams. Her mother was in a dream and I just know that she is typifying the retarded creation. Her mother does not get insulted but that is what he meant in your dream.
COMMENTS: You think so?
PASTOR VITALE: I believe that
COMMENTS: I feel there is more to that dream. There is more meaning to that dream because he told Abraham that, Your seed will be as the sands of the seashore. The whole creation is that sand. The sea is the whole creation and He is telling you that you are picked out and you went through many seas. You know what I am saying? You made it through to the other side.
COMMENTS: It was like a ground in the beach.
COMMENTS: A big hole and I swam down in there.
COMMENTS: You came through like a crowd of the creation. That is what I am seeing in that. Not only did He pick you out, but you went through and you made it to the other side, which was the new unconscious mind of Christ. Do you bear witness to that?
PASTOR VITALE: Yes, I do. We found Scriptures where the Lord showed us that sand is rock that has been ground up very fine. We are who the rock is. Who is the rock? Jesus and Christ was formed in the beginning of time but His bones where broken by the carnal mind. He was ground into sand by the human spirits of men, together forming the sands of the sea. Out of all the ground of sand, you are probably typifying the whole company of people that are going to survive and make it through into Christ. I put it on the board. You see Christ is underneath the carnal mind and body.
COMMENTS: I have to make sure that I remember that.
PASTOR VITALE: Yes, He is the inward parts. Did you understand what I said? I would like to go over that with you. I think you got very upset when I said that His bones were broken at the beginning of time. I will want to go over that with you. Could you just read that? Let us do one thing at a time.
COMMENTS: So what do you want me to read the whole chapter?
PASTOR VITALE: No, no it is just the first few verses about the locusts.
COMMENTS:Revelation 9:1-2. And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit. And he opened up the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of the great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit. (KJV)
PASTOR VITALE: So, it is Jesus who has the keys. These keys let the sons of God out. The son that was darkened, was the son of the carnal mind. The locust that arose from underneath the earth were the sons of God coming up from underneath the carnal mind.
COMMENTS: The smoke what was the smoke?
PASTOR VITALE: I do not remember, I have a message on it.
COMMENTS: So what you are telling me is that he is chosen.
PASTOR VITALE: I think so yes.
COMMENTS: Yes that is what I am getting. From that, the message is very deep and it has to be something about the voice that told him to go on in. I will like to know who that voice was. It is probably the Father, right?
PASTOR VITALE: There was a voice that said, Go on in?
COMMENTS: Yes, he said somebody told him to, Go on in it is good in there. In the unconscious mind Christ. Who could it have been?
PASTOR VITALE: Well it has to be the voice of the Father but probably speaking through men. I think in the dream he typified the whole company of believers - what they are going through.
COMMENTS: Then he said, You will see all kinds of beautiful things. In that sea, he went under water, and saw all these kinds of beautiful fish. What does that mean?
PASTOR VITALE: Well, Jesus likened us to fish.
COMMENTS: Okay, that is really a beautiful dream - all full of color and everything. Which means we are showing the image of Christ right?
PASTOR VITALE: Yes, color means, The Christ.
COMMENTS: Because when the light rays shine through, our soul is water right, or our spirit?
PASTOR VITALE: Our soul is water.
COMMENTS: Our soul is water and when the spirit, which is light, shines through the water of the soul, it makes colors?
PASTOR VITALE: Colors and imagery. There is a sweet spirit here. All this started with me trying to comment on God being on the inside and outside of us. Basically what I was trying to say to you XXXX, was this creation, as we see it now, is really the female seed of God. He is bringing his man forth from within us. A lot of people cannot see Christ in the whole creation. They call it, Pantheism. They say it is not God because God is just a man.
What they do not understand is, this whole creation is made out of the substance of God, but it is female. It is female and He is coming and bringing forth his man child. The male manifestation of Christ will just be in men. He is in the whole creation, but it is a fallen manifestation of Him. I agree with you that He is on the inside and outside. However, the inside is the male part of Him and the outside is the female part of Him.
We have a scripture I think it is in Isaiah or one of the prophets where it says, Never has this been seen before that a woman shall compass about a man. It is the spiritual man, Christ, surrounded by the woman, outside giving form to His spiritual substance, which is inside.
Right now we have a female creation where there is no man inside of her. There is no man in the midst of her. That is why we are falling down and man has all the problems - because the man has not appeared in their mind to give them the strength that they need.
I know that you believe in the female deity but all I could tell you is what I believe. We are exchanging ideas here tonight.
I know that there are a lot of female deities. I found that when you come to study the deep truth of Christianity, what the Father is saying is, God is male and when He comes, all of the gods must bow their knees to Him.
That is my understanding of it. You said you were doing some kinds of spells (or whatever it was that you said), and all of this spiritual power, that you have found in the female deity. The Father is saying to you, I want to give you spiritual power but you have to worship me, now that I have come into your life. He will say this to anybody. Now that I have come into your life I am challenging you to understand that I am the God that is greatest out of all of the gods and come to me and I will show you things that you have never seen before.
COMMENTS: I can understand exactly what you are saying and everything that you teach. However, it is very hard to let go of the hard-heartedness when your heart is really turned into stone towards the Christian Church because of the psychological abuse that you have gone through. So it is going to be very hard for me to actually let go and understand that and be able to piece that together. I am still putting up a lot of walls because they did a very good job of damaging me.
PASTOR VITALE: I understand. I am not pressuring you to do anything. I am just telling you what I think. First of all, the religious Church that you see is just that, they are fallen people who are religious. God is a spirit and no matter what mistakes people say about Him, He is still who He is. If you have been hurt, you have been hurt by men that have been using His name in vain. He is still God and He loves you. He wants you to have the very best that you can have because He loves you. If, when you are ready to leave, you will like for me to pray for you. I will be glad to pray for you, if you want prayer. If you do not want it, it is fine. Okay?
COMMENTS: You were saying to him that this world system is female, right? You were explaining that to him?
PASTOR VITALE: Yes
COMMENTS: And you understood that right?
PASTOR VITALE: He understands what I am saying, we do not know whether or not he agrees with me but he understands what I am saying.
Is everyone okay on this issue? I just want to go over Christ bones being broken.
PASTOR VITALE: No, when you were reading it I decided I do not want to get into that whole thing now. I want to go over this Christ bones being broken.
You know a lot of things that I say initially are very shocking. If you stop to think about it (or if I put it in another terms for you) you will remember Scripture that says.... the reason why I am using that expression that his bones where broken is that, that is the expression that we found the Scripture to use in the Daniel 8.
Before we did this we looked at every word in the Hebrew. Before we did that in Daniel 8 I remember reading in the prophets. The prophet talks a lot about bones, one series of Scriptures the prophet talks about taking the bones and chopping them up and boiling them in the kettle. Are you familiar with those Scriptures? It is in the prophets somewhere. I never knew what the prophets were talking about. Chop up the bones and boil them in the ...... and I just never meant anything to me until we did this series in Daniel 8. The Lord revealed to us that His way of expressing what is happening in our authority, gives you an understanding of what it means. I will try to put it in other words so that you can relate it to Scriptures that you know okay?
PASTOR VITALE: He said that at the beginning of time He made a creation and in this creation was the Father, the creation was female. You know the name Adam is not a man's name. If you look it up in the Hebrew, it is not a man's name. All that it means is that the creation was made out of the earth which was red. That is all that it means. The creation, in relationship to the Father, was female. The Father joined with His creation and brought forth a manifestation (or revelation) of the Father in the earth, through the creation - this dirt that He put together. God breathed the breathe of life into him and the man became a living soul. He was earth through which the Father was revealed. Can you say, Amen, to that? Are you okay?
COMMENTS: He was dust.
PASTOR VITALE: He was dust, and the breath of life was breathed into him which is typified by water.
COMMENTS: He became a living soul.
PASTOR VITALE: He became a living soul because of the breath of life. That is the Father, okay? He breathed into the creation and the creation became a manifestation of the son. The son is called, Christ.
PASTOR VITALE: Right, but the Father in the earth is called, Christ. It was not the only begotten son. The breath of life was breath into the earth.
COMMENTS: But we follow Christ within.
PASTOR VITALE: Right. It was Christ being revealed through the dirt, but He was not the begotten son. Now what does that mean? The Scripture tells us in Daniel 8 that this was the creation at the beginning and He was a ram which was a fully mature male sheep. He was not brought forth from seed. He was not born as a baby and grew up. He was formed - a fully matured ram. There was present in the dust, a pestilence, the name of the pestilence was, Satan, the unconscious part of the carnal mind. Okay?
PASTOR VITALE: He was in the earth from the beginning. He was a pestilence - a spiritual pestilence in the earth. However, none of these elements were woven together. They were all just hanging there in the creation. Now this man, Adam, who was revealing Christ (let me move this down here, Satan, the unconscious part of the carnal mind, was down here) and God took the man and one of his sides. I know the Scriptures says, Rib. However, if you look it up, the Hebrew really said, He took one of his sides and made it into spiritual female parts and then brought it back to the man. I want to suggest to you that, that was Eve. There are all these elements of the creation but they are not attached.
COMMENTS: Was this how He created Eve?
PASTOR VITALE: Well the Scriptures say He put Adam to sleep, took one of his ribs, and He made the woman.
PASTOR VITALE: Then He brought her back to the man. If you look that up in the Hebrew it says, He put her back inside of the man.
COMMENTS: Are you trying to say that Eve was inside Adam?
PASTOR VITALE: Yes. However, they did not look like us. It was a spiritual creation. She was his fertile parts and we are told further on in Genesis that He said, Eve was the mother of all living.
COMMENTS: I have never heard that before.
PASTOR VITALE: Everything I am telling you, you never heard before. Now further on in Genesis the Scripture says, Eve is the mother of all living. Jesus said, I am the God of the living and not the God of the dead. He is the God of all spirits. Let me finish what I am saying, then we can go back. Eve was Adam's fertile part.
When the Father was being revealed through Adam, the creation was called, Christ. I do not want to confuse you. I am trying to make this as easy as I can for you.
COMMENTS: Do you know, that you know, that this is true?
PASTOR VITALE: I have been studying for years XXXX.
COMMENTS: You know what it is?
COMMENTS: I know this is true He has witnessed it to me.
COMMENTS: He has witnessed it to you?
PASTOR VITALE: God will give you Scriptures. We will call him, Righteous Adam, as opposed to fallen adam okay?
PASTOR VITALE: Righteous Adam is a manifestation of Christ, but he is not the begotten son of the New Testament. So we will call him, Righteous Adam and God gave him fertile parts. Now God's whole purpose is to bring forth a son from seed. What Seed means is, He wants to weave all these elements of the creation together.
COMMENTS: So He did not know Adam was going to fall?
PASTOR VITALE: Oh I think God knew everything.
COMMENTS: Was His plan to bring the Christ child in anyway?
PASTOR VITALE: Yes. This was His plan before the fall. The Father said to Adam (Genesis is a parable) Guard the garden. If you look the word, Guard up, in the Hebrew, Keep the garden, means, Guard the garden. Where is the garden? It is a place where things grow, and where the Christ child was supposed to come forth from seed - a spiritual garden. The Father said to Adam, Guard the garden. Do not let anyone bring forth life, do not let Satan get into this garden and bring forth her offspring. Why? It was the Father's intension to get into the fertile parts of the creation and bring forth Christ from seed. Are you following me?
COMMENTS: But He did it right?
PASTOR VITALE: He did it in Jesus Christ but Satan, the unconscious part of the carnal mind, got in there. Adam did not guard the garden and Satan, the unconscious part of the carnal mind, got in there and brought forth her offspring which is the carnal mind. We found in Daniel 8 that when this carnal mind came forth. It was stronger than righteous Adam alone. The reason that it was stronger was, this female seed of God, (although she cannot do anything by herself, she has to have a male attached to her and an offspring) has spiritual strength. When Satan, the unconscious part of the carnal mind, joined with her, she brought forth an offspring.
COMMENTS: Eve from the garden?
PASTOR VITALE: Right.
COMMENTS: ..... was she separate from Adam?
PASTOR VITALE: Right, she really was not.
COMMENTS: Are you saying she was in Adam?
PASTOR VITALE: She was in Adam.
COMMENTS: So she fell in Adam?
PASTOR VITALE: She was the one that really fell because Paul told us that the man was not deceived. He was supposed to be protecting her. She fell but Adam was supposed to be protecting her. He did not do the job. The man was not deceived the woman was deceived. She thought this was the Father coming to her but it was Satan, the unconscious part of the carnal mind.
COMMENTS: So how was she deceived? How did Adam let that happen?
PASTOR VITALE: The reason that, that happen was, Adam was good but he was not perfect. He heard what Satan, the unconscious part of the carnal mind, was saying to Eve, You can be like God. Adam said, That does not sound like such a bad idea.
COMMENT: Was Eve Adam's soul?
PASTOR VITALE: Was Eve Adam's soul? I guess you can say that she was female. Yes. Female is soul and spirit is male.
COMMENTS: So Adam was the spirit and Eve is soul in one.
PASTOR VITALE: Yes.
COMMENTS: I get that part now and I am not offended.
PASTOR VITALE: The whole point here is that Eve had life in her. If you think about human sexuality, the egg that comes from the woman has life and the sperm that comes from the man has life.
PASTOR VITALE: In human sexuality, the two joined together in conception and they join so completely that they become one cell - the first cell of the new baby.
COMMENTS: Right, so Eve was deceived by Satan, the unconscious part of the carnal mind?
PASTOR VITALE: Yes, she received Satan, the unconscious part of the carnal mind, as a lover, thinking that it was the Father. Adam failed to stop it because he liked the idea of being a god.
COMMENTS: Really? I agree.
PASTOR VITALE: The point that I am trying to make here with regard to the carnal mind breaking the Christ bones.... not the Christ that was brought forth from seed, but the Christ that was at the beginning of time who was formed - a fully grown male ram was not brought forth from seed....
PASTOR VITALE: I am trying to make a point that Eve had spiritual authority. When Satan, the unconscious part of the carnal mind, joined with Eve and brought forth the offspring this was a double portion of spiritual authority which was stronger than Adam alone.
COMMENTS: What happened to Adam then?
PASTOR VITALE: The carnal mind (which we find in Daniel 8) rose up and smote righteous Adam. This is certified in Daniel 8. First there was a ram, and then all of the sudden there was a goat. The goat ran with great anger against the ram and killed him.
COMMENTS: Then what happened?
PASTOR VITALE: The carnal mind broke righteous Adam's bones. What are his bones? What does this mean? It means, there was a formation of a temporary (immature) formation of Christ at the beginning of the creation that was not joined. They were not woven together, and were not brought forth from seed. They were just placed there. Satan, the unconscious part of the carnal mind, got in, fertilized the Eve, got the double portion of spiritual authority, knocked out the formation of the Christ, and took over the creation.
COMMENTS: What I am hearing, you say, Seed, and you said, woven together. What is this seed?
PASTOR VITALE: Let me try again. Listen, I am going to try again, I know it is difficult. It took me a while. I am going to show it to you.
At the beginning of time, we had an immature manifestation of Christ, we had Eve, and we had Satan, the unconscious part of the carnal mind ,and they were not joined. If they were woven together Satan, the unconscious part of the carnal mind, would not have been able to fertilize Eve. However, they were not woven together. That is how Satan, the unconscious part of the carnal mind, got out to be brought forth from the seed. That is what happened.
PASTOR VITALE: It binds Satan, the unconscious part of the carnal mind. Satan, the unconscious part of the carnal mind, is the warp of the garment. She is the father of the carnal mind. She goes this way and Jesus of Nazareth came and he bound up Satan this way.
COMMENTS: By weaving through Him?
PASTOR VITALE: By weaving through Him.
COMMENTS: When the sons of God have the mind of Christ weaving through their carnal mind, then that carnal mind is totally bound to the will of Christ. It is subdued, so there is no possible way that, that body can die then. When it was loose it had power to kill us. I still will want to know more about the seed.
PASTOR VITALE: I do not know what else to tell you but I do have two messages on it called, The Incorruptible Seed.
COMMENTS: The seed that is formed by spirit and soul by interweaving, makes the seed? Is that what you are saying?
PASTOR VITALE: I see what you do not understand, I have got you.
PASTOR VITALE: Yes, the seed which is the first cell of the creation of God. Jesus Christ is the seed. Jesus Christ (a lot of people do not understand this) but, Jesus said many times, I am the son of man, I am the son of God. Carnal Christians say, Well I guess He was just was not sure what He was talking about. You know one minute He was saying He is the son of man, the next minute He was saying He is the son of God. I guess He was just confused.
No. What He was saying was, My Father is God and my mother is humanity. By the weaving together of the mind of Christ (his father's mind) and the carnal mind (His mother) there was an offspring - Christ the seed, the first cell. He said, I am the beginning of the creation of God. That seed ascended on high and became pure spirit. In this hour He is pouring out of his spirit and a drop of the Him in you and a drop of him in you. A drop of the seed is in you. He is going to bind that seed together with your carnal mind.
COMMENTS: When He ascended into spirit it was necessary to drop the seed as he ascended into spirit?
PASTOR VITALE: Yes, because, if He was a human man (if He remained the way He was before the crucifixion) He could have done the job, but only to one man at a time. He was very restricted. Let me just put this on the message, and for these two gentlemen here. By giving up his life He said, If a corn of wheat fall into the ground and it shall bring forth a great harvest. So what He meant was, He could have lived for ever as the man, Jesus of Nazareth, but He fell into the ground. He died. Now He is in a glorified form for the whole creation at once. He gave up His life as the man, Jesus of Nazareth, to become the mind of the many members of the body of Christ. He is just a spirit, He is pure spirit. He is doing in our body and souls what He did in the man, Jesus of Nazareth.
COMMENTS: Is the drop of his seed a drop of his mind?
PASTOR VITALE: Yes
COMMENTS: Is that in every single individual soul there is human spirit?
PASTOR VITALE: No
COMMENTS: Who does it reside in, those that have received the Holy Spirit?
PASTOR VITALE: The seed, the drop of the seed?
COMMENTS: The drop of the seed is it in all creation?
PASTOR VITALE: No
COMMENTS: Or it is only in those that have received the Holy Spirit?
PASTOR VITALE: Yes. That is His seed. The seed is the Holy Spirit. He is in the earth today as the male seed coming to female humanity to fertilize her to bring forth the son in the individual - to bring forth Christ in the mind of the individual - to engrave the image of the Father on the minds of men.
COMMENTS: Is that the same spirit that raised Christ from the dead?
PASTOR VITALE: No
PASTOR VITALE: Well it is the same spirit but different administration - the Holy Spirit.
COMMENTS: It does not have the power to make alive, this is the same spirit that dwells in Christ. The raised Christ from the dead is embedded in you, it will give power, it will quicken your mortal body. Is it that spirit?
PASTOR VITALE: Right. You tell me one person that has the Holy Spirit, that has had their mortal body quickened. I do not know anybody and that is because it is not the function of the Holy Spirit to quicken your mortal body.
COMMENTS: So that is a different spirit?
PASTOR VITALE: It is the same spirit but different administration. The spirit that raised Christ from the dead is the Spirit of Christ.
PASTOR VITALE: Let me just put this on the board. I may ask you to stop because I am trying to keep it at beginner's meeting. XXXX gives me a run for my money with her questions.
COMMENTS: How do you obtain this?
PASTOR VITALE: What is that? All this knowledge?
COMMENTS: Yes. I do not know. Why does it have to be so complicated? You know what I am saying? What is it going to do to our salvation if you had explained the way? Well I guess it is essential. Is it essential?
PASTOR VITALE: It is essential. I will tell you why. If you want Christ to appear in you, this is the food. Do you know the word is food? We eat the word, it is bread. If you want Christ to appear in you, He is in your heart. He starts out as a mustard seed and this is the food that He needs to grow up to full stature.
PASTOR VITALE: Yes. If you wanted to stay with the Holy Spirit - it is up to the Lord whether He will let you do it or not. But I know if you are called He fully intends to bring forth His son. For His son to come forth He is going to have this spiritual food. You cannot feed the spiritual fetus carnal food. It is going to die or it will not grow.
PASTOR VITALE: So this is the spiritual food.
PASTOR VITALE: It is essential, if you want to rise up in the spiritual power and authority of Christ.
PASTOR VITALE: Which is the double portion beyond the Holy Spirit. Okay?
COMMENTS: Right, right, Okay
PASTOR VITALE: I just want to show you the Holy Spirit and the Spirit of Christ. This is the carnal mind of men, Satan is our unconscious mind and she has adulterously joined in union with Eve. They have an offspring which is the carnal mind. Eve is in adultery with Satan, the unconscious part of the carnal mind, and she is also in adultery with the carnal mind. The offspring of the adultery of Eve and the carnal mind are demons or iniquity. Now the Holy Spirit comes in from out here in another man. No? Talk to me.
COMMENTS: No because demons are fallen angels and you just cannot give birth to demons like that in your mind. They are angels that fell from their first estate.
PASTOR VITALE: Who said so? It is not in there. The Bible does not say that. I know that, that is what they teach, but it is no true.
COMMENTS: You mean you are trying to say that what happened in the beginning of time with Satan and Eve being deceived in the garden attributes to demons being in people today?
PASTOR VITALE: Let me explain this to you. Demons are a product of the fallen mind of men just like the fruit of the spirit come forth. When Christ is fallen through you, when you are yielding to your carnal mind, you are producing demons.
COMMENTS: Fruits of the flesh?
PASTOR VITALE: Fruits of the flesh. That is what demons are they are the fruits of the flesh.
COMMENTS: .... the demons?
PASTOR VITALE: It can be, however it does not have to be. The carnal mind has all this wickedness in it. Depending on the degree to which you yield to the wickedness of the carnal mind, that is the degree to which you may or may not have demons. They are born in your own mind. They are the fruit of the carnal mind. You do not have to believe. Just take it slow, you are getting a heavy dose. I think I am going to answer this question and maybe we are going to call it quit. I do not want XXXX to get sick on all this heavy food.
COMMENTS: No. I just cannot walk in my Christian walk and in my life thinking that there are demons in my mind.
PASTOR VITALE: Why not?
COMMENTS: I am sanctified filled with the Holy Ghost.
PASTOR VITALE: You have that is the promise. Jesus has promised you that you will be sanctified. What does sanctification mean? We do not even know what sanctification means. When the Holy Spirit comes to us, we are fallen men and everything that that Bible says is a promise. It has to happen to you. It has to grow up in you and happen to you.
COMMENTS: We are sealed with the promise right?
PASTOR VITALE: We are sealed with the promise.
COMMENTS: We are seal until the day of redemption.
PASTOR VITALE: You are sealed.
COMMENTS: That means that when I am sealed no demons can come in anymore.
PASTOR VITALE: They are already there before the Holy Spirit sealed you.
COMMENTS: No when the Holy Spirit comes in....
COMMENTS: What does seal until the day of redemption mean? Sealed by the Holy Ghost?
PASTOR VITALE: It means that there is a mark on you when the Holy Spirit comes to you. He marks your soul. It is a promise. He comes to you with the promise of salvation, with the promise of sanctification, and then He starts doing the job. What is happening in the Church today is, we have many people in the Church standing up and saying, I already have it and Jesus said I come to heal the blind. However, if you tell me that you see there is nothing I can do for you. We have the whole Church saying, I have these promises and there is nothing you can do for me. They are blocking the ministry that is going to make the promises a reality in their lives. That is what the Pharisees did. Jesus said, You shut up the kingdom of heave, and you do not enter in yourself, and you do not let your disciples enter in.
COMMENTS: They are entering in .....
PASTOR VITALE: Jesus has come to do a work in you, in the whole Church, He loves everybody. He has come to do this work to finish the work of the Father to make us in the image of the Father. The Church is fully geared to wage war against the son of God. They are fighting against His work in them.
COMMENTS: You were saying to me yesterday that He felt sorry for me if I go round thinking that I have a bunch of demons in my mind and curses on my life? He said that it is a big lie.
PASTOR VITALE: Why is it sad? I think it is wonderful. I told you I almost died. I was in the hospital for three months and I really thought that God was going to let me die. I could not believe that I got that sick and then He did not heal me. I thought I was going to die. The doctor came into my room and said, You need an operation and you are going to be okay. I did not say, That is disgusting that I need an operation, I said Thank God for the operation. Jesus is coming to the Church and saying, Look you are fallen and this is your condition. I am the great physician I have come to heal you. Large portions of the Church are saying, I do not need your healing. They are denying themselves the promises of God.
COMMENTS: Not only that.
PASTOR VITALE: This is for XXXX, let him talk.
COMMENTS: When Jesus came up to the mad man in.... he commanded the demons to go into the pigs. The man was clothed and in his right mind. He went as a testimony (back to his people) of what God has done for him. When God saves somebody He delivers them from the demons. He saves them, they are clothed, and they are in their right mind that they may serve God.
PASTOR VITALE: How did you backslide unto drugs?
COMMENTS: Out of my own lust.
PASTOR VITALE: How are there people in Church that wind up in King's Park?
COMMENTS: Well, I will answer you first question. When lust comes forth it gives birth to sin and sin, in its full state, gives birth to death. What happened was, I was led away by my own lust and wanted to get high again. Instead of being obedient to God, I followed my own lust in my flesh. I had a choice at that time. I could have been obedient to God, but I chose out of my own free will, to get high again. This opened the door for a whole bunch more demons to come into my life.
PASTOR VITALE: I want to give you something to think about. I want to tell you how what you just said sounded to me like what we talked about it earlier. I just heard you say that Jesus was not strong enough to keep you, I heard you say that your God stood by and saw you spiral downward into drugs because you had lust, and He refused to help you.
COMMENTS: No I did not say that.
PASTOR VITALE: No, that is what you said. That is what your words meant to me. Why did Jesus not help you? Why did He not stop you?
OMMENTS: I will like to ask the same question too.
PASTOR VITALE: Well here is the answer. Listen. In the grace of God, listen to me.
COMMENTS: Yes, go ahead.
PASTOR VITALE: First of all, Jesus did not command the demons to go into the pig. They asked for permission and He gave permission. As far as the gathering.... goes what Jesus did at that time, He is not doing in the Church today. He is about to start doing it again very soon, but it He is not doing it today. Also, let me give you another example. The woman that was in adultery when He said, Go and sin no more. Why did He deliver her out of the judgment of the law which would have meant stoning her to death? He had the spiritual authority to touch her heart and fix her so that she will not sin anymore. There are all kinds of books written about what Jesus wrote in the dirt, ... said, and He wrote in the dirt. Are you familiar with that Scripture?
PASTOR VITALE: All kinds of books are written on it. Did you know what He did?
PASTOR VITALE: He wrote in the earth of her heart, and changed her image from adulterous to Christ. He said to her, You do not have to be stoned to death because I have just given you the ability to stop committing adultery.
COMMENTS: Praise God.
PASTOR VITALE: Why will He not do that for you?
COMMENTS: Why did He take my pastor from drugs? Deliver him on the first day he got save? My pastor can stand up boldly with his microphone and say, I am here to tell you that from the day I accepted Jesus Christ I never backslid and I will never go back to drugs. When I heard him say that, I remembered how I went back to drugs about three times. At that point I was like, Oh Lord I am just not good enough.
PASTOR VITALE: I was waiting for you to stop talking to ask you this question and you just said it yourself. XXXX this message that is being preached today does good for a lot of people but for people like you, it condemns you.
COMMENTS: Why did he get delivered though? Why did he not go back?
PASTOR VITALE: Not everyone is the same. Not everyone is coming from the same place. I know he was on drugs, but there is a combination of many factors. Apparently the degree of power that is in the Church today was enough for him. However, it was not strong enough for you.
COMMENTS: Did God fix his heart?
PASTOR VITALE: I do not know. It is possible that he was called to the ministry but I do not know. I do know this, apparently you need a stronger dose of power. You are fighting this with every strength. God has brought you here because the power that you need is in this word - the power to keep you. The Scripture says, He who is strong enough to keep you from falling. Are you familiar with that Scripture?
PASTOR VITALE: Why was He not strong enough to keep you from fallen XXXX? Because you are rotten, no good, dirty sinner and God hates you?
COMMENTS: Yes, because the pastor preached a message. He said that some people are born in the church, they come to church, and they can never get the victory over sin because they are liken unto Balaam, Balak, and who is the other one in Jude?
PASTOR VITALE: Analak and Balaam. Let me tell you something XXXX, listen to me.
COMMENTS: A child of the flesh, they never can get in the spirit. They are just put into the Church with tares to grow up with the Church and then they be burned.
PASTOR VITALE: Well let me tell you something, I do not condemn you. I do not condemn you. I see in you a man that Jesus loves very much. However, because of your life.... We are all born with a measure of curses, problems, and weaknesses. That is what a curse is, it is a weakness. People get bent all heavy shape with this words. A curse affects the way you think. It affects your emotions. What ever happened to you, the measure of power in the Church it did not keep you. The Lord has heard your cry. In this hour a greater anointing is just starting to appear in the Church.
Soon it is going to be available for everybody. Right now it is just starting. He loves you so much He got you to this stronger anointing first. You are amongst the first to come to it. So when I say, The ministry here, I do not mean, Me. It is the spiritual ministry that the Father has placed here, His spirit, and a measure of the word. He wants to get it inside of you. I was talking to XXXX just a little while ago. I said that the man is inside of the woman and spiritually we are all female in relationship to Christ.
PASTOR VITALE: He wants to put His very life inside of you as a new foundation that will keep you from falling.
COMMENTS: The only way I am going to get the victory over sin is by getting the life of Christ in me?
PASTOR VITALE: Yes. Let me say something else to you that is true. There is a lot of people in the Church today that have not backslidden like you have backslidden.
PASTOR VITALE: I am not saying anything about your pastor. I am not putting anything on anybody. The judgments of God are coming upon them that are standing and condemning people that have done everything that they could do and could not make it. Not to burn them in hell forever. The judgments of God are merciful. That is a spirit of pride to say, I did it, I made it and if you do not you are a tare. We have already entered into the season.
COMMENTS: He will scream that all over the pulpit.
PASTOR VITALE: Well may God have mercy upon his soul because the hour of his judgment is at hand.
COMMENTS: I used to walk out of there wanting to commit suicide saying, Who am I, I am a tare, I might as well die. Then I will go and get drugs and get high again.
PASTOR VITALE: Listen to what I am saying, listen very carefully. There is no condemnation to those who are now in Christ Jesus. I am not condemning your pastor. I will not condemn him anymore than I will condemn you. Ask yourself this question, What was the fruit of what he preached to me?
COMMENTS: To me he worked death in me.
PASTOR VITALE: He killed you.
COMMENTS: Yes, but, to the ones that never fell, they were lifted up and they were like praise God.
PASTOR VITALE: What lifted them up? Pride lifted them up.
COMMENTS: Yes, I think XXXX has got himself....
PASTOR VITALE: Now listen very carefully. Most of the Church is waiting for judgment to fall upon the heathen.
PASTOR VITALE: It is not coming on the heathen, it is coming on the Church.
COMMENTS: Oh Jesus have mercy.
PASTOR VITALE: Let's keep this in context. The judgments of God are merciful.
PASTOR VITALE: It is a correction. The judgment, the tribulation, it is a correction coming from God to His Church. The Scripture says, If he does not chasten you, you are a bastard. The correction of God is coming to the people who are His, but lifted up in pride. My Bible says that the day is coming real soon that you are going to be standing on this glorious foundation that He has already started to build in you. This people that have been standing on the foundation of pride (which is sinking sand) are going to be begging you to feed them. They will be asking you, What have you got, I want it too? because they cannot continue. This ministry that is in the Church today....
COMMENTS: This is making me feel good.
PASTOR VITALE: It is killing God's people.
PASTOR VITALE: It has got to come down.
COMMENTS: You are hundred percent right, I cannot dispute it.
PASTOR VITALE: It is coming down.
COMMENTS: I see it. I see it all in the Church world. I know so many people that were just like me that are out there right now. They need help, they need help too and you are right, it is pride.
PASTOR VITALE: He killed you. The thought of his ministry was death. Not only death to you, but death to all the people that said, Amen I am a wheat. The judgment for pride is already heading in their direction.
COMMENTS: Jesus they were like.... amen. If I had the victory from day one which I did for like a period (of about seven months).... I used to scream, Amen, real loud and, Hallelujah true, to all that. The first day that I went back, (when I came back to church and heard that message) I could not lift up my hand and say, Hallelujah, anymore. I did not have the victory like they did. Well I did in my first seven months in my walk with God. You know what I mean?
PASTOR VITALE: Look, this is the way it works. God requires everybody to do the best they can. However, if your best is way down here and XXXX best is way up here you are both going to get the same reward. If you go to the Lord and say, Well I am going to do as much as XXXX does and I want the reward, He is not going to give it to you. Everybody is required to do the best they can, but that is all He requires from you. It is your best. If all you could do is this much, He is going to meet you right where you are. You are going to get the same wage as the person that is very strong and who went through without ever backsliding. All He wants from each individual is a heart that is turned towards Him that is not lifted up in pride. One that is willing to say, I am a sinner and I need help.
COMMENTS: God gave me a Scripture the other day. It made me feel like I was that one person that used to beat his chest before God and say, I am such a wretched sinner Lord forgive me. If my heart is like that then God will meet me right?
PASTOR VITALE: He is going to meet you right where you are. That does not mean He is not going to let you have bad experiences. The people that are called to come through first go through terrible experiences. He does not call them first because they are better, but for whatever reason, God chose them to strengthen them first. Then they can go back and pull all the others out. You would not want to know what I have been through in my lifetime. They go through terrible experiences why? It works compassion for the desperate. God is not going to send a minister, to the desperate, who is incapable of having compassion on them.
PASTOR VITALE: So the people that God called to the spiritual ministry usually go through an awful lot.
COMMENTS: That kind of message will make you say, Okay, I am going to live holy for God and I am going to do my best to live holy for God.
PASTOR VITALE: You cannot do it. You see, we found a Scripture in the book of Job if you want it I will look for it, it is in there. It is in the book of Job and Job says to the Lord, Why are you doing this to me. Why are you letting all this fall upon me? All you had to do is say to me, Job you have sinned. Job said, And I will have stopped doing it. The Father said to Job, And who do you think you are? You could not have stopped if you wanted to. We found it in the book of Job.
We cannot stop sinning. We need the foundation of Christ to be internalized in us so we can build on that foundation. Not build works of hay and stumble, but build works of gold that will cause us to ascend into heaven. We cannot do it ourselves. Yet the whole Church is full of people who think they have done it themselves. When the hour of tribulation comes upon them you are going find out that they are standing on a foundation of sand - a foundation of their own works.
PASTOR VITALE: They are going to come to you and (this is typified in the book of Genesis where Joseph's brothers are coming to him to buy grain) are going to have to repent. Whoever is being hurt by this people, by the grace of God, they are going to have to forgive them, and minister to them what God has built into us. The Church has killed a lot of people, they did not mean to. They are doing the best they can, but they have done it.
COMMENTS: I know, I think God is going to round up this people too, who are still alive in these last days.
PASTOR VITALE: Oh yes! He is already starting out to do it. The big problem we have today is, the Church that is in power - that is visible (the Church that everybody recognizes as The Church) is preaching this message of death. I am not telling you that they are terrible people. They think they are doing the right thing. However, they are preaching this message of death. When the message of life comes forth, they are going around telling all these desperate people.... (I hope you do not mind calling you desperate. I am not saying that it as an insult to you. However, to me you are desperate at the thought of backsliding again that you will not arise this time). Is that not true, do you not have that fear in your heart?
COMMENTS: Yes I feel that God showed me that if I was to backslide again it might be it. I might die.
PASTOR VITALE: All these people out there like you, that are in this desperate condition (who have failed to survive under their own works, strength, or pride) are saying to these people, Do not listen to this message of life. A lot of them are not coming in. They are going to die. For whatever reason, they could not overcome the headship that is in the Church today, which is shutting up the kingdom of God. They will not go in themselves nor let the others go in.
There is a small group in this hour. The qualification is someone whose heart is really turned towards God and just saying, Help me. That is the best prayer I ever heard - Jesus help.... Whoever is crying out like He is bringing them in against their will – because they are so scared. This doctrine is the exact opposite of everything that the Church is preaching. I told you, What you are feeling is perfectly understandable. Everyone that God calls here goes through this and all I can do is pray. God shows me that He is calling somebody and I will bless them, and ask for God's will to be done in their lives. It seems to have a really strong hold on you. He is pulling you in.
COMMENTS: I feel, after tonight, that I am closer to the truth than I have ever been. I am not following a false truth you know. What I have received I know it is from the spirit. Have you received anything from the spirit lately XXXX? It is really good is it not? The other people cannot understand it if you try and tell it to them.
COMMENTS: The spirit of ....
COMMENTS: .... pride and carnal mind.
PASTOR VITALE: They have refused to believe that what they have been taught may be wrong. The really sad part is, most of these people never got this word in their own heart. They are repeating what other men have taught them.
COMMENTS: They are hurting other people....
PASTOR VITALE: They are hurting themselves, they are hurting other people, and they do not get their own word. They are just repeating another man's words. If this is Jesus in me speaking, and I believe it is, then my words are spirit, and life, and they are entering into your hearts. They are rooting there and going to grow in your heart. This doctrine is going to come forth from seed in you. You are not going to be repeating my words - that is what XXXX is experiencing now. She is not repeating my words. My words are rooted in her heart. She has her own experience and her own ministry. So whoever she is ministering to, she is not out there repeating Sheila. She is doing her own thing.
COMMENTS: It does not come out the exact same way....
PASTOR VITALE: No
COMMENTS: I just bear witness to what you say to get this deep doctrine to get this revelation in order for the Christ to fully mature in us, so that the Garden of Eden can appear.
PASTOR VITALE: Yes
COMMENTS: That is why it is been hidden from this age down to the ages. It was not the time yet. I think all those other churches down there with all that carnal doctrine (even though it has shut up the kingdom) God was behind it all because He was shutting up the kingdom until the time. Even the Pharisees, He is behind the whole thing. He has allowed it all because He shut it up until the time that it will be revealed. This is the hour that it is starting to be revealed.
PASTOR VITALE: Yes, this is the hour. It is very exciting.
COMMENTS: When there are enough sons of God in full stature, this world's system is going to change. It is going to change because the power of their minds is going to change. The vision is actually going to change. Our carnal mind does have a lot of power again in this appearance.
PASTOR VITALE: It is not our conscious mind, it is the unconscious mind which is....
COMMENTS: Scientists say that we do not even use two thirds of our mind. What I am wondering right there - if that is the unconscious mind. We are only using our conscious mind, being only a third of our minds that we are using right now, and that our unconscious mind is totally overlaid. It is pure heaven and it is overlaid by the carnal mind. Actually the new unconscious mind is Christ and it is the Garden of Eden.
PASTOR VITALE: The Christ, who is begotten of seed (not the Holy Spirit) - the offspring in you of the male seed (which is the Holy Spirit) and the female seed (which is the human spirit), join in the double portion and bring forth the son in you. When this happens, that is the mind when it is in full stature. That is going to change the vision. That is going to project the new vision.
Let me just say this, we are all kings and priests. The Bible says we are kings and priests. However, priests are not strong enough to sustain a vision. Only a high priest can sustain a vision and Jesus is the high priest. We are priests now so why can we not change it now? It has to be Jesus in full stature. It has to be the high priest. So it is not our individual carnal mind that is doing it. It is the cooperate carnal mind that existed at the beginning of time.
COMMENTS: When Adam fell in the beginning, his mind was so full and so strongly full of Satan, the unconscious part of the carnal mind. Satan, the unconscious part of the carnal mind, was the high priest?
PASTOR VITALE: No the carnal mind is the high priest.
COMMENTS: The carnal mind is the high priest? Okay it was Satan, the unconscious part of the carnal mind, in Eve having that spiritual communication.
PASTOR VITALE: Yes and their offspring was the high priest. The offspring at the beginning of time, just like you heard me teach: We are the second generation of Christ that Jesus of Nazareth was the first generation of Chris, and He is glorified. We are the second generation of Christ. Amen? Can you say amen?
PASTOR VITALE: The carnal mind that was formed at the beginning of time when Satan, the unconscious part of the carnal mind, fertilized Eve, became pure spirit, and has generated all, as we (fallen man) are the second generation of the carnal mind. It is the first generation of the carnal mind, that is our unconscious mind, that is the high priest producing this world system.
COMMENTS: So that is the unconscious mind that has the power to make something appear?
PASTOR VITALE: Right. It is the cooperate unconscious mind. It is not anyone individual.
COMMENTS: Satan, the unconscious mind, is causing this clash and this world system to appear the way it is now. Whereas, the new unconscious mind of Christ will cause the Garden of Eden to appear.
PASTOR VITALE: Yes.
COMMENTS: And these bodies will change at that time or....?
PASTOR VITALE: I just have to correct you because we want to get it exactly right okay? It is really the carnal mind, but just as Jesus returned to the Father and now to a spirit, the carnal mind, from the beginning of time, returned to his Father (who is Satan, the unconscious part of the carnal mind). He became pure spirit. You can say it is Satan and the unconscious mind, but it is really the first generation of the carnal mind that is doing it. The carnal mind is the high priest that serves the god Satan, the unconscious part of the carnal mind. Christ is the high priest that serves the God Jehovah.
COMMENTS: So the carnal mind is made up of the conscious mind and the unconscious mind?
PASTOR VITALE: Well what is confusing here is that there are two generations of the carnal mind. Just like Jesus is returned to pure Spirit and becomes our own unconscious mind, the carnal mind (the first generation of the carnal mind) has returned to pure spirit. This is unconscious mind to the fallen men.
COMMENTS: Okay, the new unconscious mind is Jesus Christ?
PASTOR VITALE: Yes.
COMMENTS: The conscious mind is Christ Jesus.
PASTOR VITALE: Christ Jesus, yes.
COMMENTS: So the unconscious mind of Christ Jesus, the second generation of Christ, will they have the power to change the vision of the world? Do they have the power to change, or is it Jesus Christ?
PASTOR VITALE: It is Jesus Christ and it is Jesus Christ being revealed through a many membered company. However, it is the one mind of Jesus Christ being revealed through many men. We are the priests that serve Him. He is always going to be pre-eminent. Jesus Christ will always be higher than us just as Jesus said, I and my Father are one but my Father is greater than I. We will be saying, I and Christ Jesus are one but Jesus Christ is greater than I. He will always be greater than us. So we will be Jesus Christ to His pure spirit that will project the image of Eden, but it will be done through our minds.
COMMENTS: Is the Garden of Eden and heaven the same thing?
PASTOR VITALE: Yes.
COMMENTS: The kingdom of God?
COMMENTS: And the new Jerusalem?
PASTOR VITALE: Let me slow down here.
COMMENTS: The kingdom of God, the New Jerusalem, the Garden of Eden, and Heaven, are all the same?
PASTOR VITALE: No, let me take them one at a time. I said, Yes, too quickly. There is more than one heaven. There is the heaven that is higher than all the heavens, which is the Spirit of God that hovered over the world at the beginning of time. That was not the Garden of Eden. It was the heaven of the Spirit of the Father, remember?
COMMENTS: What is spiritually moving over the waters, is that the waters of the soul?
PASTOR VITALE: Everything is getting out of hand and I am getting very tired. I do not like to tell you the wrong thing. Let me just tell you what I have to say. There is more than one heaven. The highest heaven is the pure Spirit of God that is not being revealed in the earth. The heaven beneath it is the Spirit of God being revealed in the earth. The Spirit of God, when it is revealed in the earth.... what is the earth? Men is the earth so the Spirit of God (the pure spirit being revealed in the earth) is the unconscious mind of a man. It is the unconscious mind of a man.
PASTOR VITALE: Yes, the subconscious mind of a man, the unconscious mind of a man.
COMMENTS: Same thing unconscious, subconscious?
PASTOR VITALE: Yes same thing. The kingdom of God is soul typified by a city. We are cities for spiritual life. Jesus clearly said that. The city, the great Babylon, is the city that we are dwelling in today. It is the carnal mind and we are going to get a new city which is called, New Jerusalem, which is the mind of Christ. The New Jerusalem is the mind of Christ.
COMMENTS: And that will come down out of heaven?
PASTOR VITALE: Come down out of heaven. Come down out of the glorified Jesus Christ.
COMMENTS: Into us?
PASTOR VITALE: Into us. It will be our new mind, the mind of Christ, which is soul.
COMMENTS: When people (the company of people) grow into full stature, then as that appears in their mind then the world as they see it, will change?
PASTOR VITALE: Yes. I do not know how quickly it is going to happen. I do not have any of the details.
COMMENTS: That is why it says, We see through a glass.
PASTOR VITALE: Right
COMMENTS: Then we do not know for sure yet?
PASTOR VITALE: Well I know what is going to happen. I just do not know how fast it is going to happen. I do not know if it is going to be twenty people with the mind of Christ, and the world is going to change, I do not know.
COMMENTS: It is the kind of questions that you were asking me in the car and you said you were.... outward realm and you were saying, I have questions that I want to ask you. I said I do not know what is going to happen that outward realm changes as we see it. You made a remark and you said, Well because for instance that car with the fumes coming out it....
PASTOR VITALE: I do not know how long it is going to take to effect the change. The only thing that I could tell you for sure is that the kingdom is coming first in men's minds. At some point what is in the minds of this company of men will be revealed in the earth. I do not have any more information than that.
COMMENTS: Then eventually the saints will come down and join us? At one point or the other the saints, like Paul and Peter, are going to come back with Jesus Christ?
PASTOR VITALE: Well they are going to be in the earth again.
COMMENTS: They are going to appear in the earth?
PASTOR VITALE: They are going to appear with Christ in the earth. Yes.
COMMENTS: That is in coming of Jesus.
PASTOR VITALE: Well Jesus is coming in us right now. Remember now, they are going to appear as his childhood. Remember when Jesus appeared in the mount of transfiguration? We say Elijah and Moses?
PASTOR VITALE: The Father was telling, I think it was Peter, James and John, this deep spiritual truth that I am telling you now. He was saying, Look Moses and Elijah is a part of this man Jesus, but they are inside of him. The Lord just let it happen in a vision to show Peter, James and John, they are a part of everything and that Jesus was in full stature. The experiences of these men in Christ, are a part of him.
I do not have any more information. I know that it is going to be wonderful, and much better that anything that we can experience in this earth, in these fallen bodies, and in this fallen mind. Whatever experience we experience for Christ is going to be with Christ as He appears in his maturity. Okay?
COMMENTS: I do not understand about, for instance, somebody who has not lived out their life full of spiritual revelation, but full of wickedness, their soul was wicked in that soul. I know that it said in the word, The soul that sins dies.
I know that the soul is going to die and anybody soul, even though they lived a righteous life in Christ, if that soul was not perfected, it still had sin in it and that soul dies also. So taking for instance the one that has a really wicked soul that died compared to the one had the soul that was living it ninety seven percent at a time in Christ and it still died.
PASTOR VITALE: Yes because it was not time for the resurrection of the dead. The resurrection of the dead (the one that was raised from the dead) was the one who was brought forth from seed. Jesus Christ of Nazareth wove the mind of Christ together with the carnal mind, and the Father raised Him from the dead. These men Enoch or the other one, I forget who it was, did not weave the mind of Christ in them together with the carnal mind. What they did was by, the authority of the mind of Christ, controlled their carnal mind to the point that they did not sin. They did not weave the two together. Jesus is the only begotten son of God. He is the seed.
COMMENTS: I said earlier something about the sons in full stature because their minds are going to be weaved together. They are going to have control over that carnal mind and it is not going to be able to kill them.
PASTOR VITALE: No. It is going to be paralyzed.
COMMENTS: Are saying some might have the authority of Christ even though their minds were not weaved together, they have control over the carnal mind. How did they get that?
PASTOR VITALE: That was the condition of the creation at the beginning. Did you remember I had it on the board? I am too tired to get up. I had it on the board. It was righteous Adam and there was Christ and there was Satan, the unconscious part of the carnal mind. Righteous Adam, which was an immature manifestation of Christ, had complete control over the carnal mind but they were not woven together. If they were woven together Satan, the unconscious part of the carnal mind, would never have fertilized Eve, and the creation could never have fallen.
COMMENTS: Right, right.
PASTOR VITALE: So these men were in the same condition as Adam at the beginning of time, but it was not permanent.
COMMENTS: How did Enoch do that? How did he get authority like that and Satan was not let out in him?
PASTOR VITALE: God gave it to him.
COMMENTS: Elijah too? What does it mean that Elijah was taken up in the chariot?
PASTOR VITALE: XXXX that is all for tonight. I will answer that another time.
COMMENTS: I have intelligence enough to seek God about ....
PASTOR VITALE: God is so good.
COMMENTS: There is a high intelligence here tonight and I feel it is directed by Christ.
PASTOR VITALE: There is a really sweet anointing here now.
COMMENTS: I thank God for the ability to follow.... and really receiving it a lot of it make sense.
PASTOR VITALE: God is giving you a miracle. You are a miracle. Most people float in here and then they float out. They float in for a couple of years before they come in because they cannot take it. A lot of people sleep through the whole meeting they cannot take it they go to sleep.
PASTOR VITALE: Well this is exciting what God is doing. I believe that this doctrine was available to.... This is just really exciting. I cannot wait to see it yield in people's life you know. People do not know this word in their intellect. The people in whom Christ is the foundation, is the spiritual person. I have the same power to teach, same as everyone else, some of them happen to.... When peter said to them....
COMMENTS: There is no appearance at the soul in the glorified body of Christ.
PASTOR VITALE: Let me answer this. This is the difference, only what you do for Christ counts. Every experience that we have in our lifetime.... First of all, let me say this. Nobody is living ninety seven percent for Jesus, the whole creation, including me, is very carnal. Believe me, I will not be as sick and as often as I am if I was living ninety seven percent for Christ. You can only live to the degree that the Lord grants you permission to live for Christ, at a particular time in your life. When I compare myself to the rest of the Church I think I am very spiritual. I tell you without hesitation, there is no way that I am living ninety seven percent for Christ or I would not be sick. Paul never got sick. When the snake bit him he threw it off. I do not think anybody today is living ninety seven percent for Christ.
COMMENTS: I did not mention....
PASTOR VITALE: Does that answer your question? I am getting tired I am going to have to end it because these questions are very deep and they are just draining everything out of me. I really do not like to tell you a mistake, or tell you something that is wrong. I really do not like to do that. Everything we do for Christ will be carried into the mature Christ as a childhood experience. If there is a person out there that has never had any experience with Christ at all, there will be no memory of that personality whatsoever when the Christ appears in his mature condition on the earth. The people who are sinners or who have had some experiences in Christ (whatever Christ has experienced through them) will be a memory in the mature Christ. Now let me clarify that it is going to be a memory of a high spiritual order. I do not know exactly what it is going to be, but I know that I think back of my memories of childhood and I know that my childhood made me what I am. This memory in Christ is going to be a much higher spiritual order. It is going to be glorious for us but more information than that, I do not have for you.
Let me say it one more time, only that which Christ has experienced through us is going to go on. Everything that is being of the carnal mind is going to be forgotten and fade away. Did I answer your question?
COMMENTS: Yes pretty much. I did not mention personalities, but I do think that Paul.... Is he not going to appear in the glorified body? I know that his spirit is going to appear.
PASTOR VITALE: There is only one glorified body.
COMMENTS: So is Hitler's cause the true substance of his spirit was the Father.
PASTOR VITALE: Hitler is gone.
COMMENTS: Hitler's personality is gone his past personality gone.
PASTOR VITALE: Paul's personality is not gone. It has been swallowed up and will appear as part of the matured Christ. Just as Jesus said, If you can receive that man John the Baptist that that is the spirit of Elijah appearing in this man John the Baptist if you can receive it receive it. If you cannot receive it please do not persecute the preacher just pray about it.
COMMENTS: I thought swallowed up meant that, that personality is not seen anymore only Christ is seen.
PASTOR VITALE: Ask me again.
COMMENTS: Like for instance, when Christ grows up in us, our own personality will be swallowed up by Christ and that personality is not seen anymore only Christ.
PASTOR VITALE: That is true.
COMMENTS: In other words, how are we going to see Paul's personality we are only going to see Christ?
PASTOR VITALE: Just as Elijah's personality was seen again in the man John the Baptist. It is going to be appearing somewhere.
COMMENTS: John the Baptist, Elijah, Peter, and Isaiah are going to appear somewhere.
PASTOR VITALE: They are going to appear somewhere, but it is going to be the Christ that was in them. I see where you are coming from. Jesus did not say, That is the man Elijah, because if I say to you, The man Elija,h I am talking about the man's personality. Jesus did not say, That is the man Elijah. He said, That is the spirit of Elijah. Jesus also said, The Father is the God of the living, He is not the God of the dead. He is the God of the spirit.
PASTOR VITALE: He said, That is the spirit of Elijah. So Paul's spirit will be seen not Paul's personality.
COMMENTS: So we will be able to walk up and talk to Paul's spirit?
PASTOR VITALE: No.
COMMENTS: So he is not going to be an individual?
PASTOR VITALE: You are talking about his personality. You are stumbling over the difference, and I think everybody is tired. You are stumbling over the difference between spirit and personality.
COMMENTS: So we will not be able to walk up to Paul.
PASTOR VITALE: And say, How are you? No. The only reality is Christ. That within us which is Christ will go on, but He is all there is. It is Him in us that will go on. Let me just tell you this.
COMMENTS: That is deep.
PASTOR VITALE: Yes, let me just tell you this. How was this spirit of Elijah upon John the Baptist? Well look at what John the Baptist did. What did Elijah do? What did John the Baptist do? They were both sold out to God. They were both holy men of God. They were both separated from the world, rebuked the king, and persecuted for righteousness sake. It was the manifestation of Christ that appeared through Elijah that was once again appearing through the man John the Baptist. The personality is just dust. We are Christ and this is very difficult.
COMMENTS: So it is a different personality, a different body but it is the spirit of Elijah.
PASTOR VITALE: It is the spirit of Christ.
COMMENTS: What happened to the ones who never saw death like Enoch and Elijah.
PASTOR VITALE: It does say, Them that.... That is not taught properly. One more thing that will add to your problem. They died, they died, the Scripture does not say that.
COMMENTS: It says that they were taken into heaven.
PASTOR VITALE: It says, He did not taste death. If you study it in the original language it was not saying that. What you thought it is saying is, oh God this is the last question okay? When you look it up, I think that it is in the Greek. It says that it did not taste death, when you look it up in the Greek what it is saying is that.... First of all, what is death, what is death? The carnal mind is death. He says, He did not taste death it means He did not have a union with death. It means He did not commit adultery with the carnal mind, that is what it means. When you look the Scriptures up about Enoch in the Hebrew what he is saying was he was a natural man. He had a carnal mind, a relationship with Christ, and he walked with God. He was so much in Christ that he was not. He ceased to be Enoch and he became a manifestation of Christ in the earth. That is the Old Testament Scripture. The New Testament Scripture that says, He did not taste death. What it means if you study it in the Greek is, He did not partake of the carnal mind. It does not mean his body never died.
COMMENTS: What you said earlier, is that when we stop? When the carnal mind has no control over us then these bodies will not die anymore? When we are in full stature they cannot die.
PASTOR VITALE: They cannot die, Jesus said, No man can take my life but I lay it down.
COMMENTS: If we lay it down, so we will not be able to be killed - only if we choose to lay down our life?
PASTOR VITALE: Yes.
COMMENTS: So are you saying that Enoch laid down his life then?
PASTOR VITALE: Yes, because it was not time. Jesus was the first man to be raised from the dead.
COMMENTS: Alright, and Elijah too then. I thought you were telling me that Enoch did die because the wages of sin is death.
PASTOR VITALE: He did not die but he laid down his life.
COMMENTS: He laid down his life that is different.
PASTOR VITALE: Yes it was not time for the resurrection of the dead. The resurrection of the dead (the one that was raised from the dead) was the one who was brought forth from seed. Jesus Christ of Nazareth wove the mind of Christ together with the carnal mind and the Father raised him from the dead. These men did not. Enoch or the other one, I forget who it was, did not weave the mind of Christ in them together with the carnal mind. What they did was, by the authority of the mind of Christ, controlled their carnal mind to the point that they did not sin. They did not weave the two together. Jesus is the only begotten son of God he is the seed.
PASTOR VITALE: I always cover my tail. Well it is just the Lord.
COMMENTS: I said earlier something about the descend in full stature because their minds are going to be weaved together. They are going to have control over that carnal mind, and it is not going to be able to kill them.
PASTOR VITALE: No, it is going to be paralyzed.
COMMENTS: What you are saying is somehow through the authority of Christ. Even though their minds were not weaved together, they had control over the carnal mind. How did they get that?
PASTOR VITALE: That was the condition of the creation at the beginning. Did you remember I had it on the board? I am too tired to get up. I had it on the board it was righteous Adam and there was Christ and there was Satan, the unconscious part of the carnal mind. Righteous Adam which was an immature manifestation of Christ had complete control over the carnal mind but they were not woven together. If they were woven together Satan, the unconscious part of the carnal mind, could have never fertilized Eve, and the creation could have never fallen.
COMMENTS: Right, right.
PASTOR VITALE: These men were in the same condition as Adam in the beginning of time but it was not permanent.
COMMENTS: How did Enoch do that? How did he get authority like that and Satan was let out in him? How did he do that?
PASTOR VITALE: The Lord gave it to him.
COMMENTS: And Elijah too? What does it mean that Elijah was taken up in the chariot?
PASTOR VITALE: XXXX that is all for tonight.
COMMENTS: Ah okay.
PASTOR VITALE: Ask me again and I will answer you at another time.
COMMENTS: I have intelligence enough to keep up with....I am naturally intelligent but anyone else could have a hard time with it.
PASTOR VITALE: Everybody has a hard time with it.
COMMENTS: Everybody does one way or another because this is.
PASTOR VITALE: God is so good.
COMMENTS: There is a high intelligence here tonight and I feel it is direct to Christ....
PASTOR VITALE: There is a really sweet anointing here.
COMMENTS: This is like.....
COMMENTS: I thank God for the ability to follow him all the way and really receiving him a lot of it makes sense.
PASTOR VITALE: God has given you a miracle, you are a miracle. Most people float in here and float out, and they float in and out for a couple of years before they come and they cannot take it. A lot of people sleep through the whole meeting, they cannot take it they go to sleep.
COMMENTS: .... I just write and take notes during the meeting
PASTOR VITALE: Well this is exciting what God is doing. I believe that this doctrine was available to the apostle. I believe it was during the dark ages but for the modern Church this is just really exciting.... I cannot wait to see this word revealed in people's lives. I cannot wait. I believe that.... ordinary people, are not people who know this word with their intellect. People who Christ is their foundation is a spiritual person. I have the same powers that Jesus had. With some, that has not been able to take away doing drugs....