The Following Message Has Been Transcribed And Edited For
Clarity, Continuity Of Thought, And Punctuation By
The LEM Transcribing & Editing Team.
If you are sick, God does not kill you, He does not make you lose your job. God does not do that, but if you are letting sin reign through your mind unrestrained He will let the god of this world bring a just recompense, and then when you find out what you did to that guy, what it feels like to happen to you, you will repent and God will restore you. But He is not killing you, He is not torturing you, and He is not sending you into poverty because you have made a mistake.
He is giving you an experience that might be uncomfortable especially if you have pride, which we all do. You may have some uncomfortable experiences that will result in your not doing that to your brother in the future. This is NOT true, but let us assume God gives you a car accident because you were offensive to me, you insulted me, and God gives you a car accident. How would you know what you did wrong? God's ultimate purpose is to teach you that you did something ungodly, so what good is a car accident or going into poverty? How is this going to accomplish God's goal in your life? It is not.
What He will do is send somebody to mistreat you just like you mistreated me. That is what He is going to do. You will say, "Oh my goodness, Father that is what she must have felt like. Please forgive me and help me not to do this again."
There is a young woman that I ministered to, and she is moving very deeply into God, and every time she abuses me in any way, within 24 hours, she goes to work, and it happens to her at work. She says, "I was accused of something I did not do today." She had just accused me falsely. This is the Judgment Seat of Christ. Not car accidents, not disaster, but learning experiences.
She had enfolded into herself the double portion of the Lord, because her sins required the double shot of penicillin, that her moral evil shall be pardoned. That is speaking about Satan now. The sin that results from her union with Satan. It is not the inequity, it is sin. This Hebrew word translated "pardon" is Strong's #7521, and it means to satisfy your debt and is rooted back to a Hebrew word that means "salvation."
Our New Testament reference would be, "You are complete in Christ." The pardon of sin is not a human pardon. You can hurt me, and you say you are sorry and it does not mean anything. When I say "Do not worry about it," it does not mean a thing. When God pardons you, the fruit that has been produced by that sin is ripped out, and that part of your fallen nature which has produced that sin is covered over with Christ.
This ability to sin is perceived as a lack. Christ moves in and fills you up, satisfies that which is lacking so that you do not do it any more. The true forgiveness of sins is a revisiting of your condition, a renovation of your condition, which changes you so that you do not do it any more.
If God's forgiveness of sins is such that you can go out and do it again, you will be back in the Roman Catholic Church. You sin, he forgives you, and you sin again. God is not a Roman Catholic priest. He is a priest. Neither is He a priest of the Old Covenant that you have to bring an animal for Him to sacrifice for you. It was the same principle. He is a priest after the order of Melchizedek. When He forgives you, brethren, He fixes you.
You may be screaming and yelling when He is fixing you. It is never pleasant, but He fixes you so that you do not do it any more. If you find out there is something wrong with one of your organs, and you go to a doctor, he fixes you. If you need surgery, it is not always pleasant. You do not scream and yell. You go and you get your operation, but everyone screams and yells when God wants to fix them.
You know why they scream and yell? Because we have been lied to. We have been told this is automatic. We have been told not to expect it. We have been told that from the minute you say "Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior" everything is okay, and it is a lie. If you believe it, you have bought a lie, and every time a chastening comes upon you, you think Satan is after you.
It is funny, I admit, but there is a sad side to it. I know a man who was a mighty man of God, and he started to go off, and the Lord started to correct him, and every time the Lord corrected him he declared it was the demons, and to this day he will not receive a correction. Everything that happens to him, everything that turns him away from any purpose that he has, he declares that it is the demons, and he has lost a great deal. He has lost his anointing, his ministry is drying up, and he still cannot see that something is wrong. All he can see is that something is wrong. He believes that the witches got him.
Look, brethren, if you are really serving God, if you are where He wants you to be, not if you THINK you are serving Him, but if you are where He put you, and you are being faithful to what He has given you, no demon or witch can get you. That does not mean you should go out and tempt God, but I want to tell you something. If you see your life shrinking, and shrinking, and shrinking, if you see your ministry shrinking, and shrinking, and shrinking you had better start repenting, because the witches are getting you.
Sometimes, God lets you go under heavy chastisement, and it is Him. I was under a severe chastisement for years, but I want to explain to you that it was necessary, because when I came to the Lord I was not the nicest person. I tell you the truth, I was not the nicest person, and I had heavy, heavy witchcraft on my family line, and there was a lot of sin in my mind so God let a severe chastening come upon me. I think it almost killed me. I came real close to it.
If it looks like you are losing everything, it does not have to be the witches. What you have to do is examine yourself. Is your mind in a condition of repentance? Are you crying out to God for deliverance from some hardship in your life? Are you on your knees repenting of your sins, saying, "Father, if I have taken a wrong turn correct me? I do not know why this grief is coming upon me. I do not know what I did, but I am sorry. Save me, do not let me be destroyed." If that is truly your heart, then you must believe that the chastening is of the Lord. To the best of my knowledge, the man I told you about justifies every sin he does and says that the witches are getting him.
You have to see this fine line. I went through a severe chastening, and I almost did, in fact, die but it was not just physical. It was an emotional chastening. I lost a great deal in my life, but it has indeed produced the peaceable fruit of righteousness in me. If the chastening is of God, then do not push against the pricks as there is only one way to go and that is through.
You cannot go back. There is no going back. I want to make that clear. This is your test. If it looks like everything is overtaking you, are you truly in a deep condition of confession of sin and repentance toward God? If you are, hang on to the horns of the altar, and I declare unto you no witch can get you. What is happening to you is that your branches are being pruned, and He is cutting. A lot of it is inherited wickedness, a lot of it is because of sin in this lifetime. He is ripping it out of you. He is pruning your plant, and He is bringing forth Christ in you. If you deceive yourself, if you listen to what I am saying, and you deceive yourself, and you are not really honest before God saying, "Father, if I did something, if this is not a pruning of the plant, but if this is unto destruction have mercy on me, I really do not know what I did wrong."
I had heavy witchcraft on my background. I became ill at 11 years old, and I must have spent at least 20 years of my life crying out to God, saying "I do not know what I did but I am sorry." I prayed this prayer for at least 20 years before the Lord revealed Himself to me. "God, I do not know what I did, but I am sorry. Have mercy on me," and He had mercy on me. Do not let anyone take my words as a snare unto you. If you are being chastened severely, then if God has made a judgement that you require that, then praise God for it, but do not justify your sins.
Here is an Alternate Translation on this starting with Verse 1. "Take vengeance on Satan and the carnal mind, my people, speak to the carnal mind which has subjected you, and tell her that I have fenced her in and brought her to an end, and that the double portion of God's strength has taken hold of Himself and covered over the sins of the whole Living Soul."
I would like to call to your attention that word "subjected." "Speak to the carnal mind which has subjected you." I refer you back to Romans 8, Verse 20. I see a distinct tie-in between that verse and these two verses. It always excites me when God does this, because He specifically put me in Isaiah 40. I had no idea that it was a second witness to Romans 8:20, and every time He does this I get excited, because it is just another witness that He is so involved and directing what I am doing, so I thank God for that.
COMMENT: Romans 20 says that the mind was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by Him who has done so in hope. You have made us see there is something wrong about that translation. From what you have said, I hear you saying that it is actually Satan who subjected man to vanity. I have always believed that Satan was the reason for that subjection, that God actually subjected man to vanity; otherwise, I do not see any reason why God would want to bring forth a right without a wrong. I believe God has knowledge of everything, He is a good and perfect God, He is excellent. Are you saying that it might have gotten God by surprise, the fall of man? It is like God knew what was going to happen. It is like He allowed it to happen because of what He wants to do.
PASTOR VITALE: I hear what you are saying. Let me tell you what I think you are saying so you can correct me if I have misunderstood you. You are more inclined to believe that it was the will of God that man fell. I do not see it that way. Let me make a few more comments on it. Yes, God knew, but God also knew that Adam had the opportunity to overcome, and God did not plan it that way. I cannot honestly say that God planned it that way; although, I am sure that He knew that the man would not take the victory. God, in His righteousness, equipped the man to not fall.
This teaching is in the church that God did it, that He subjected the man, but what that says to me is that God is an unrighteous God. Why would God subject humanity to thousands of years of what we know the history of man to be? That is saying something about God that disturbs me, and I know the teachings in the church.
It is a very fine line from what you are saying and from what I am saying, but what I am saying is that, yes, God knew, but He knew in His righteousness. In His righteousness, He knew that He made a provision for Adam to overcome. He did everything that He could have done for Adam to overcome, and then because the man was not going to be a robot, the test came. It was the weakness in Adam that caused the fall. It was not a weakness in God. For me to believe that God deliberately subjected us thusly would say to me that my God was unrighteous, that it was a weakness in God.
This is a doctrine that is very wide spread through the church today. It is subtlety making God unrighteous. It is a subtle attack upon the integrity of our God, and we have to be very careful, because this thought that says God was unrighteous is a manifestation of pride, and it is the manifestation of pride which appeared in Job who sat there in all of his torment and said, "I do not deserve this."
We must understand that there is such a thing as reverse inference. If I declare that I did not deserve any of the severe chastening that I just mentioned to you then I am, therefore, declaring without saying the words that the person chastening me was unrighteous. I just exhort you, whoever is hearing this tape, to be very careful to ask God to help you to recognize this manifestation of pride which is saying, without saying the words, that man is innocent, and God is unrighteous.
I have seen this spirit, it is a manifestation of a spirit. I have seen it expand. There are ministries today preaching that there was no fall, that there is no sin. It is a big movement in the church, and they are boldly saying that man is without sin, and there was no fall, and God just did this to us. If you analyze what is being said, it is that man is innocent and God is some tyrant. The biggest problem with this, as you pray about this conversation, if this is in fact a manifestation of pride, the pride of man, it can interfere with the job that God is desiring to do in you to bring forth this Savior, this mighty warrior to defeat your carnal mind and raise you from the dead.
It is not a question of who is right, you or me. That is not even the issue, but for your sake, if what I am telling you is true, and you are continuing to embrace this doctrine the result of that will be a hindrance to the resurrection of the dead in you.
COMMENT: From what you have said, can we then say that it was deliberate of God to have created man to be good, not perfect, can we say that?
PASTOR VITALE: I think we are disagreeing on the definition of words. I do not know what "good" means to you. What it means to me is that man was made good, he was made as complete as he could be, but this is what was missing. That righteous mind of Christ that was in him, to make the creation perfect, had to put down roots deep into the earth of the soul and wrap around that Satanic influence, that uncleanness in the earth, and bind it up so completely so that it could not get out. That was something that God could not do for the man. That was something that the man had to do for himself, that finishing touch that would join the mind of Christ to the moral uncleanness in the creation.
The creation was good, and yes God deliberately just made it good and not perfect, because if he made it perfect from the beginning then man would have been a robot. He said to the man, "I have done as much as I am going to do for you. I have given you a handicap, I have given you dominion over the sin, now let us see you bind that thing up and finish the creation." It is as if you take your one-year old child and set him on his feet, he has to walk.
COMMENT: Some people in our meetings have access to the Greek and Hebrew and all that. Some of us do not, and when people come forth and say certain things that this actually mean certain things in the Greek, there could be a bit of confusion as to what to believe. Do you eventually see the possibility, in the future, of another Bible? There is King James. Before King James there was something. Now, after King James there has been all the versions. We agree that some of the versions were done by scholars which causes a mixture of the writing. Do you see the possibility of a finer, alternate, Bible which would give us a true and perfect picture. I know it would take a lot of spiritual, divine work, and I do not think it will happen at this time of imperfection. Because if people gather themselves together and say they want to correct everything, there will, of course, be some carnality. Do you see the possibility of God, moving by His Spirit, to influence some people to come up with a finer, perfect, Bible that has everything perfect without any controversy at all?
PASTOR VITALE: A perfect Bible with no controversy at all is the revealed Sons of God, the Spiritual, Living Epistles.
To answer your question on a more human level, I do not believe that God is wiping out the King James or any of the other Bibles, and I will give you a very good reason why. What I am preaching is the Spirit of the Word, the Spirit of the Word, and it is not likely that a man in whom Christ is not being formed will be able to have any understanding at all of what I am talking about, and the Bible, as it is written, is a parable, and it is an excellent book, a good book.
People can pick up that book and this King James, just like it is, and they can have tremendous benefit to their life by reading the Proverbs or the New Testament. They can receive the Holy Ghost. They can have wonderful experiences through that Bible, and it is a parable so that the youngest child can understand it. I do not think God is about to do any ditching of this Bible.
We are told in the Book of Hebrews, "If the Lord permit, let us go on to perfection." I do hope, and I know that it is the hope of some of the people here that someday God will let me put all of these alternate translations together, but it will not be an ultimate Bible, and I would not call it a Bible that would replace anything that we have, but just like when you are a young child and you are 7 years old and learning how to read, your book says "See Jane run." "See the cat." I do not read books like that any more, but I read books that use the same alphabet and sometimes I have a word "cat." I would not expect this Bible to disappear until such time as every human being on the face of the earth is in full stature, and then I do not know what God will do with it, but this letter will be fully expressed through the lives of people. I hope I answered your question.
Before you leave I would like for you to let me pray for you. I believe you are a little distressed at the message, maybe it is not in your conscious mind, and that is all right. I want you all to understand that every one of your carnal minds is under attack in this kind of message. Every one of your carnal minds is being ripped by the Spirit of Christ. If there is a little response there, it is a good thing. I want you all to understand that the power of God that flows at a meeting like this is like a knife cutting people's hearts out, and it is really important that you understand this.
I am aware that a lot of people do not understand it, and they will leave a meeting like this, and you have to realize that this is war. The Spirit of Christ is ripping your carnal mind out, and He is doing it by the foolishness of preaching, so I have been around these kinds of things for a long time, and sometimes I see things that others cannot see, but it is nothing at all to be concerned about or embarrassed about.
Actually, it is a good thing because it means that the power that is coming forth here has attacked your carnal mind. It is a good thing. Try to think with your Christ mind and not with your carnal mind. It is a good thing. We want those carnal minds ripped up out of us, and that is God's intention by having you in a meeting like this. It is not just a question of learning doctrine, but it is a question of having Christ arise in you, and to have Christ arise in you, your carnal mind has to be weakened.
We have found several scriptures indicating that the carnal mind must be weakened because Christ, when He comes into you, He comes in, in the form of a mustard seed, He is the least of all the seeds, and then He has to get into the ground, and if the ground is not plowed, and broken up, and nice and soft there is no way that seed is going to sprout.
Glory to God. To whatever measure your carnal mind has been attacked, I give God glory for it. I just want you to know that this has been happening to me for years. I sit here and preach this, and then there is always somebody that does not know that they are bleeding. Just a few weeks ago, there was a young woman, and I said, "I want to pray for you, you are bleeding, your carnal mind, blood is just pouring out of it. What is going to happen to you is that if we do not pray for you, you are going to start going about your life in a week from now, and you are going to have a reaction, a stress reaction in your life, however it manifests for you."
The tendency of the believer is to not recognize what it is. If I took a knife and cut your arm, you would see that you were bleeding, but a wound in the soul, in the emotions of the carnal mind, somehow it is typical that it does not register what is happened to you, but I have some form of Spiritual eyes, because I have been doing this for so long. I think that you have been touched, it is a good thing so I want to finish killing it. If you are willing, I will be glad to pray for you.
Let me give you the rest of this testimony, hopefully, as an encouragement to you. This woman who I said the same thing to her that I said to you, and she could not see it either, but she submitted to the prayer. Xxxx and I prayed for her, and we saw her a couple of weeks later, and she said that within two weeks after that experience she became aware that she could tell the difference between Christ and her carnal mind. She was very excited.
Christ and the carnal mind, they are one. It is like the skin and the flesh underneath it, so when this blood comes it means a separation is taking place. You cannot distinguish between your Christ mind and the carnal mind unless some measure of separation takes place, and that separation, the scripture clearly describes, is a cutting with a knife. I hope that is what is happening to you, and I hope that you have the same experience. She was very excited, just two weeks later, that she was really entering into this experience.
COMMENT: You spoke about the devil. What I understand is that the devil has been made a just recompense for every iniquity committed. (much of the comments not understandable).
PASTOR VITALE: Yes, God made a good creation hoping that the man would take the victory, but in the event that he did not, there was a provision for redemption, and as far as the Greek and Hebrew language, that is exactly correct. We must rely on the Spirit.
I have spent not only hours, but I have spent years digging into the other languages, and you are entering into my labor, and now you have the opportunity to try the spirit on it, and you should try the spirit on what I teach you as well as you try it on the King James. You should not just believe what I teach you. You are supposed to listen and meditate on it and pray about it, because if you just believed everything that I told you, it cannot do you any good until it starts to grow in you. It has to grow in you.
You should pray without hesitation that the Lord not let anything cleave unto you that is not of His Spirit. I will pray that prayer for you. I want the truth as much as you do. I pray that prayer for all of us here, that nothing should cleave unto us but that which is of God. I pray that every work that I spoke is the truth of God, and His Spirit should cleave unto you.
Pray these prayers, having faith in God that He will witness it to you by the Spirit. Even people who have the books do not have the time or the gift of delving into the scriptures. There are many people in the United States who have access to the books that went out and bought all the books and after a couple of months they just gave up. It is a gift. Not everybody can sit 6, 10, 15 hours in front of these books. It is not human. God is doing it through me. Even if you had access to the books, very few people...I have been anointed of God for this specific purpose. You partake of my labor, and all you have to do is pray about it.
Getting back to your first point on the forgiveness of sins. Once you repent, the sin has to be worked out of you. It does not just go away once you repent, and what usually happens is that the Lord will have someone come into your life to do pretty much what you have done. Let us say the sin is anger. Without meaning to do it, anger has gotten the best of you, and you inflicted anger upon your mother, your father, your wife, it just comes out and that is abuse. Anger is abuse.
From the day you repent, at any point thereafter, God is likely to bring people into your life that will have the same kind of manifestation toward you - anger. The Lord will challenge you to forgive them for it, you will have to work on your own anger, and as soon as you start getting some control over it, someone will come into your life, someone you cannot get away from, a relative or an employee or something, and you will have to forgive them and have to not get angry back at them because if anger is a problem you will find that...If you have a weakness to erupt in anger and someone comes to you in anger, it will stimulate your sin, and you stand there screaming at each other.
God is going to let this happen to you and let it continue to happen to you until you overcome, until you overcome your anger, until you do not respond when an angry person comes to you, and until you can forgive it and have mercy on the angry person.
The tendency of fallen man is to say, "I have overcome this anger. What do I need you in my life for. I am not an angry person anymore. I do not want this angry person in my life," but God wants you to have mercy on the person who is afflicted with what He has delivered you from. He wants you to forgive them, and He wants you to work with them, and help them to overcome. That could go on for a long time.
God is glorious, because once He delivers you from it, He will give you such grace when you are dealing with someone who has that affliction. You will just feel His glory on you.
God does not deliver you to send you out to do your own thing. When God delivers you, you are called into His service. If you are delivered from anger, you better believe you have a whole line of angry people waiting for you. I tell you the truth. Whatever God delivers you from, you have a whole line of people waiting for you to help them, to give them your testimony and forgive them when they do it to you.
God is incredible. He does not just pluck it out of you and let you go fishing.
COMMENT: I want you to speak more on Spiritual warfare, on sickness. When you talk about the carnal mind and the mind of Christ, what kind of weapons can we use against the carnal mind, and when do we pray, and when do we speak directly to the carnal mind? Concerning sickness, when do we pray for healing, and when do we speak to the sickness?
PASTOR VITALE: The words that we say in this warfare really are not very significant. What is significant is that we are in a condition of mind which is opposing that carnal mind. I find it necessary to say words, because it helps me to oppose the carnal mind, but the carnal mind really does not care what you say.