The Following Message Has Been Transcribed For
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Well, this has been quite a week. On top of everything else my back has just gone out, but I don't care. Victory is wonderful. Praise God. It has been fierce. This battle has been fierce. Joseph got his nose caught, but he is not too sure what happened to him yet. I keep telling him it was a spiritual battle, but the Lord delivered him out of all his destructions. We prayed for him last night, and I saw that thing turn away. There are just a few little threads hanging on today, but I believe it is over. If not by tomorrow, then in the next couple of days it is going to get less and less.
And you were bad tonight.
COMMENT: I was bad.
PASTOR VITALE: Praise God. You know what that means? It means your Pharisee is coming down, and what you really feel is coming out.
COMMENT: I did it in the wrong spirit.
PASTOR VITALE: I know you did it in the wrong spirit, but listen to what I'm saying. All you Pharisees, by your own power....if you are a Pharisee raise your hand. All these Pharisees. You are trying to restrain on some level, either full consciousness or in some level of unconsciousness you know that you have wickedness in your heart. Why? Because every human being on the face of the earth has wickedness in their heart. So all of you Pharisees are trying to restrain that wickedness by your own strength, and so long as you try to restrain that wickedness by your own strength God cannot deal with it. What God wants to do with it is rip it out of you, but the Pharisee which is your carnal mind wants to press it down and deny that it is there. So your own attempt to press down your own sin is hindering the work of Jesus Christ who wants to expose it and rip it out, and for whatever His reasons His rules are that before He rips it out it has to be exposed. So all of our Phariseeism works against the liberating force of Jesus Christ in our life, and it is not something that we have control over. We have been doing it all of our lives. Our mothers did it, our great grandmothers did it, our grandmothers did it. It is an automatic reaction to white-wash our sin. Why? Because ever since we were a little baby we were told "that's not nice Johnny, don't do that." Sometimes we are told if you do it you are going to get a spanking. It is way back here in the back of our heads. Not that you should go out and do every evil thing that comes into your mind, but at the very least it asks "please don't do that, please." It has to appear in your mind. You have to say, "Lord it is there in my mind, I see it, it stinks, I hate it, it is sin, please rip it out of me."
You, I know personally, because I have been working with you for almost two years. Everyone's Pharisee isn't exactly the same. Your Pharisee white-washes it and completely, up until now, blinded you so that you could not even say, "it stinks, purge it out of me." All you had was some vague feeling that something was wrong in your life, but you didn't know what it was. So I am not happy that you manifested in a wrong spirit, but God has promised that all things should work for your good because you love the Lord, and your true nature must be exposed. The way that it works is you lose control. I told someone not too long ago, "you are holding back a whole wicked aspect of your personality by sheer will power, and the whole time that you are doing that you are praying to God to help you." Watch out, because there is about to be an explosion in your life, and the whole thing's going to fall apart. Does anyone not know what I just said?
I got a phone call a couple of weeks ago. She said, "guess what?" "There was a big explosion in my life, and it all fell apart." And I said, hallelujah. The Lord cannot help you when you are putting all these restraints on your own sin because at the same time what you are really saying, whether you know it or not, it could be unconscious, it could be conscious or it could be any place in between the two, it could be semi-conscious, whether you know it or not what you are saying to the Lord is, "I want let you see my sins." That's what you are saying. The Lord is saying, "let it all hang out, I want to kill it." And the Pharisee in us is saying, "it is not there, it cannot possibly be in me. I've gone to church every Sunday for 140 years, and I could not possibly have murder in my heart." Did I make myself clear?
So, rejoice because all things work for your good as long as you are truly seeking God for help. He's the one that's making you lose control. OK? So it is not a good thing, and, of course, you know that you need to repent, that if you mistreated your husband....I am sure you have already done that, but try to see it as a step along the pathway by which God will bring you to, in a Godly way, deal with the problems in your marriage. It has to get out. So, you just repent and you go on. You cannot wallow in condemnation. We are in a warfare, we are in a warfare, and there is too minds in us, and the carnal mind would be....you see, if it can't get you to sin well then he will agree to your denial that the sin is....if he can't get you to sin in your behavior then he will be happy to let you sin in your mind, but when you start acknowledging that there is sin in your mind and submitting your mind to Christ to root it out that guy gets mad. I'm telling you that guy gets mad, and we are going to see in the message tonight that Satan has authority over every human being on the face of the earth. He can manipulate the minds of people to do what ever he wants with one exception. And that is those people who are really moving in Christ, have submitted themselves to God. Now you don't have to be a born-again Christian. You can be a nominal Christian who has a revelation of sin, and the closest relationship that the Lord has permitted you to have with them, crying out to God for help, and He will keep you, but the more that has been given to you the more that's required of you. Is that not a Scripture?
So those of us who are in a ministry like this a great deal is required, but everybody is in a war. I believe it, I believe that not only the nominal Christian that goes to church every Sunday but has a revelation of sin and righteousness and is clinging unto the Lord for help, not only them, but I believe even people that aren't what you would call living a Christian life but somehow from a series of circumstances in their life they have a revelation of righteousness. Now, I am not talking about Satan worshipers. I am talking about people that are just pursuing their life. Some people have the law of God written on their hearts. They just know when something is not right. They just know it is not right, and God is honoring that, you see. Why? Because righteousness is Christ, and they might not think they have a relationship with Christ, but if they are truly hungering and seeking for righteousness they have a revelation of Christ. Can anybody not understand what I am saying? That is why all the Pharisees in the church world are getting ready for one big shock because there are people who have the law of God written on their heart all over the world. Some of them are Hindus, some of them are Buddhists. I am not talking about Satan worshipers. I am talking about average people that may have a religion that's not Christian, but they are seeking righteousness with all of their heart. They have a revelation of righteousness in their heart. They know that it is right to do certain things, and it is just wrong to do certain things, and they are living it as best they can. And when their turn comes, when this new move of God covers the earth, every one of those people is going to find out the name of their righteousness.
See, they know righteousness. It is the spirit that's in their heart. They just don't know His name, and they may not have even have read His book, but His spirit is in their heart. You cannot seek or desire righteousness if His spirit is not in your heart. Paul clearly says that some people have the law of God written upon their hearts. And how does that affect all the Christians in the church that are sinners? It makes them ashamed that the ones who know the name of righteousness, the ones who have this book but aren't living right, the fact that some guy in some pagan religion knows what's right because it is written in his heart, makes ashamed the Christian church. I've seen it, I've personally witnessed it. Does anyone not know what I'm talking about? Don't be condemned.
COMMENT: I badgered him, I just put him on.
PASTOR VITALE: What did he do? You have to get an accurate perspective of this. There is a problem in your marriage, right? It is never one person's fault. It is both people's fault. Not that it was right that you badgered him. It wasn't right that you badgered him, but I can't let you be an enabler here. He had to do something to provoke you. Do you understand what I'm saying?
COMMENT: I felt that I'm right, and I don't know if I should feel that I'm right.
PASTOR VITALE: Well, maybe you are right.
COMMENT: Maybe if I explain the situation you might enlighten me.
PASTOR VITALE: If you want to.
COMMENT: Well, my son was over and we were all kidding around, and he said something about "oh you could take it out of your allowance." So I said, I don't get an allowance, and I said, the only money I get is from you children, and my husband got furious.
PASTOR VITALE: The truth hurts.
COMMENT: He said, "you get everything you need." I said, "I don't get an allowance." So he said, "you don't need an allowance, I get everything that you need, you just got new pants, you're getting $200 to go away," and he went berserk, screaming, yelling. And I said, "all I said was that you don't give me an allowance, that's all I said." And he kept on going and screaming. He was saying this in front of my son. He said, "then I won't give you anything." And I said, "Oh really." So I don't know whether I should feel that I'm right or that I'm wrong. Do you know what I mean? Because I felt that it wasn't in the right spirit.
PASTOR VITALE: You were right, but you did it in the wrong way. Your anger is very understandable, but you expressed it in the wrong way. But look at it this way, for years you have been unable to express your anger. What's happening to you is that you are making an over-correction, and I'm firmly convinced that in cases like this I just don't see it happening....it is rare, I have personally never seen it happen any other way, that before a person can learn to communicate a legitimate or an illegitimate grieving in a Godly spirit they have to start communicating it, and for some one who has pent up their emotions....how long you married? 35 years? 36 years. For someone who has pent up their hurt and their anger for 36 years, as God brings forth your emotions, because you have to express your feelings, but we must all learn to express them in a Godly manner. And as the Lord pulls this out of you it is coming forth like a water geyser that just is breaking through the earth. You know a water geyser that just zooms, and then it sort of just calms down. I've never seen it happen any other way. Your anger for 36 years is being propelled out. Does anybody not understand what I'm saying. It is not right what she did, you are not supposed to yell at your husband, you are not supposed to yell at anybody, but we are all human, and we all have varying degrees of problems, and as long as you recognize that it is wrong what you have done and as long as you repent of what you have done, and as long as you are asking the Lord to continue to work with you on this problem there is now no more condemnation in Christ Jesus. But it doesn't feel good. What usually works for me because I know exactly what you are talking about, I've been there, and what usually works for me is that I just cry out to God, and I tell him, Lord I've repented and I've confessed this sin....see all of this pain is in your carnal mind. This pain is not in Christ, and a natural example is if you were to cut your arm.
Let me start that over again. Let's say you are having a wonderful experience, you really felt good and happy, and all of a sudden a missile came and gave you a big slash on your arm. All of your joy would disappear, and all of your attention would turn toward the pain which needed ministry. So what has happened to you is sin did come forth in you, OK? And it wounded the Christ mind in you, and pushed it down, and your emotions right now are all the carnal mind, and you are feeling terrible pain. Now, I want to say it again, I don't think I made it clear. It was Christ who brought this wound to the surface. All of these years the wound was there, but you had pushed it down so far, you were in such denial you did not even know the wound was there, and now all of a sudden Christ has ripped the veil off of it, and you are feeling the pain. I want to tell you that the only thing that's going to help you as far as I know is that Christ has to come back up because when Christ is prevailing in you, you know the story, it is either Christ or your carnal mind prevailing in your mind and in your emotions at any one time, and you cannot be upset, you cannot be hurt, you cannot be bitter, you cannot be in a bad mood when Christ is at the top of your mind and your emotions. Does anybody not know what I'm talking about?
So the answer to every problem that we have is the same thing, Christ has got to come up again. If you are in distress Christ is down under the feet of your carnal mind, and it doesn't matter what your problem is if you are hurting it is because Christ is down underneath your carnal mind. Christ has to come up again, doesn't matter what your problem is. It is the same answer, same remedy for everybody, Christ has to rise again. So the question is, how do we get Him to rise again? Everybody has to pretty much find out, it is a personal thing, it is not the same in everybody, and I know that He rises in me when I get into a deep study. But sometimes I can't even study. Sometimes if I am really down I could be studying for two hours before He rises. Sometimes I don't have two hours so another thing that I do is that I just pray. I just pray. I won't leave Him alone. I say, Father, I repent, I confess this sin and I repent, and You said, there is now no more condemnation in Christ Jesus, please let your mind arise in me because the pain is intense. I want to tell you that He is so faithful, He is so faithful. Let me pray for you.
COMMENT: I just felt...., and I know it is wrong, but I had no remorse, I guess I felt I wasn't sorry that I did it. Do you know what I mean? And that bothered me, and I said, Lord I can't even cry over this situation. I was happy that it happened because it was almost like I struck back, and the feeling that I had was awful. It was just so strong.
PASTOR VITALE: Oh no, it had to come out. Christ flushed it out of you because you have been dealing with this problem in an ungodly manner for 36 years. Somebody else would have been sick over it. That kind of thing, in some instances, produces physical illness. Repressing that kind of rage. See, he needs to know how you feel. I am all for writing letters. Since you were screaming at each other, and he probably wasn't hearing anything that you were saying I would recommend that you write him a letter as soon as you get over this. Do it in the right spirit, and explain to him that you need more than money, that you understand that he thinks that all you need is money, but you want him to know that there is something besides money that you need. There are probably many things besides money that you need, but the thing that you need in this issue is that you need to feel some measure of independence, some small amount of money that you can say that is your own. Even if you want to buy him a present, you have no money to buy him a present, and that it makes you feel bad having money meted out to you like you are a child, and that you feel that you need to have something that you could call your own. He has to hear that, and if you said it during this fight I'm sure he wasn't listening. So, I highly recommend that you write him a letter, a letter that he could look at and read it over and over and over again. See, words especially in the heat of anger....he doesn't even remember anything that he said.
COMMENT: He didn't say much. He just kept saying....all I said was, I don't have an allowance.
PASTOR VITALE: You have to start communicating. If you want to write him a letter, if you want me to look it over before you give it to him I will help you. He has got to hear what you have to say. See, you cannot even fault him before the Lord if he doesn't really understand what you are saying. You see? Before God is going to deal with him as a cruel husband, which I am not saying that he is, before God declares any man a cruel husband it is the woman's obligation to communicate her needs to him. God will only deal with a man as a cruel husband when the Lord makes a judgment that this man really understands what this woman is saying and just refuses. You realize that I am talking about some small thing that really makes no difference to any human being. I'm not talking about some major purchase or anything like that. The Lord is not going to deal with him until you have done all that you can do to express to him how you feel. I've been preaching this for a long time, not only with husbands and wives, but with all relationships including parents to children. God doesn't usually move....now God is sovereign, He can do anything He wants, but He does have patterns that we can understand. God does not usually move until the person involved has exhausted every human possibility to straighten this problem out. When the person that's seeking Him, who ever the Christian is, has done everything that the Scripture says to do, and everything that Godly counseling says to do, and the other person, it doesn't have to be a husband, it can be a wife, it can be anybody, it could be parents and children, friends, cousins, uncles, the Lord won't move supernaturally until the individual petitioning Him as done everything possible and scriptural to make this thing work. Right now He is working on you two communicating....say it face to face, and if you can't say it face to face then you write a letter. It is really almost impossible to have a healthy human relationship without communication. If you are angry at somebody for something, or if you feel that they did something that they should not have done you have no legitimate complaint as far as the Lord is concerned until you tell them. You must give them a chance to say, I'm sorry, I didn't realize that you felt that way, and I won't do it again. You must give them a chance.
So let me pray for you. I want to get on with the meeting. I just want to leave you with this, there is no condemnation in this. OK? And you are going to be fine, and you are going to start communicating, probably God is going to give you a whole new marriage. You are going to be like honeymooners again by the time He gets finished with you. You will both be like limp rags, you will be on your honeymoon like limp rags, He's going to beat you both up, but this has got to stop. It doesn't glorify God, and you realize, of course, that the reason he won't give you an allowance is that he's afraid of what you are going to do with the money. You understand that.
COMMENT: I know.
PASTOR VITALE: That it is true that he buys you everything that you need, but what frightens him is your independence so you understand that? Yes. It is true that he gives you everything that you need.
COMMENT: I went through this with my husband years ago, and my sister-in-law came to live with me, she's retired, and when she was living with us my husband said, she gets $70.00 a month. I told him, I really don't get a dime from you, I get the food money and yet you see fit to give to your sister-in-law, but you choose not to give to me.
PASTOR VITALE: But he had her social security check, did he not?
PASTOR VITALE: So he thought he was giving her her own money. I'm sure that he felt, well, what am I getting, a couple of hundred dollars a month, and I'm her guardian, and I'm giving her back $70.00 of her own money. You weren't contributing anything to the household.
COMMENT: Yes, I was because I worked at the business, I did all the paperwork, I did all those things, I did all that work, but I am saying that I did contribute, but what I am saying is that he saw fit to give to her and not to me, and that was an eye opener for him, and also my son happened to be there and he said, dad what are you pulling? So I think this is going to be a breakthrough. It is just his mind has to be lifted up.
PASTOR VITALE: But now I want your mind to lift up. I am not defending your husband, but I want you to understand how he thought. That he was receiving cash income in the house for his sister, and he gave her back a generous amount. I don't agree with what he was thinking, but a lot of men have this problem. Yes, you did all the paperwork, you contributed services, but you brought no cash into the household. Now, I'm not justifying what he said. I personally don't agree with him. I want you to understand my point, I'm not defending anybody. We are into communication here, OK? This is a big problem with husbands, and it is a big problem with employers, OK? I used to work for a law firm, and they had two categories of employees. One that generated income, and one that did not generate income. What does that mean? If you were a lawyer or if you were a paralegal, and for everything that you did they billed for every hour that you worked, they paid you $20.00, and they billed the client $50.00. They were very generous to people like that, but if you were an employee that did not generate income, that you time was not billed out, but they had to take out of their profits and pay you, it didn't matter if you were a secretary or a book keeper or a messenger, it didn't matter, you were in this category, they had a word for it, I can't recall it, and you did not generate income, and you were not treated as well as the people whose time was billable. I'm not saying whether it is right or whether it is wrong, I'm just trying to ask you to understand the other side of it because it is part of communication.
COMMENT: That's not true because when I did in order to get pocket money and have gas money and things I did go to work, and then he wanted to know why I wasn't contributing to the house, and I said that I went to work so that I would have money to tithe to the Lord and....so there was.....
PASTOR VITALE: No, it is not the same thing, it is not the same thing. I'm not on his side. I want you to see clearly with your mind. OK?
COMMENT: It was a control issue, it was a control issue.
PASTOR VITALE: Now, we are talking about you. I don't think you understand what I'm saying. OK? You were not contributing cash into the household. This was how his mind was going. His sister was bringing probably $300 a month into the household, it didn't come out of his pocket what he gave her, but what he gave you would have come out of his pocket. Can you at least understand what I'm saying?
COMMENT: ....he was thinking that in his mind, not our mind. I'm not saying he is not generous....
PASTOR VITALE: I understand. You are crossing over two issues. I want you to understand. It is really important because there is bitterness in marriages here, and what dissolves the bitterness is understanding how the other person thinks. You don't have to agree with them but just to understand how they think. In his mind whatever he gave you came out of his pocket.
COMMENT: That's the whole issue. He gives to himself. Well, he smoked $20 a week in cigarettes, and I didn't smoke.
PASTOR VITALE: There is another issue. Right now we are comparing you to Kathleen. You see, I've heard this story 5 times so what that says to me is that there is a hurt in your heart over this.
COMMENT: That was several years ago.
PASTOR VITALE: You are talking about it.
COMMENT: I'm telling you that's what happened to me years ago, but he had to acknowledge in his heart that he did think it was proper for her to have money in her pocket.
PASTOR VITALE: I'm talking about you now. It is time for us all to start looking in ourselves. Can you just say that you understand what I'm saying, what his thinking was with regard to Kathleen? Let's not cross over issues here, that she was an asset that was producing income and that you were a deficit, and he had to take it out of his pocket to give to you. Can you just understand that? I'm not saying it was right or wrong. Can you understand that it wasn't a man who was getting $300 a month from Kathleen and $300 a month from Mary and giving Kathleen $70 and giving Mary $7? It is not the same thing.
COMMENT: But Sheila, his mother was also living, and I had 24-hour care for her, but he was getting whatever social security or something like that, but that all went into the household bills. I was doing all of the work that generated that, but I got nothing for it. Can you understand that? Because I'm just going along. That thought bothered me before....
PASTOR VITALE: You are crossing the issues over, so I'm going to stop you because I have a good message for you tonight, but I want to pray for you, and I want to tell you that you cross over issues in your mind, and I've been telling you this for years. It is nothing new. Everybody here does it. I'm dealing with everybody on this issue, and if you want to be a Son of God it is just really important that our mind gets cleared up, and that we keep our eyes on one issue at a time, and that we understand the issue. So I want to pray for you along that line that the Lord clear up your mind, OK?
COMMENT: Could I just ask a question? What would be her stand, what would be her position in this whole situation, what rule would she take?
PASTOR VITALE: I happen to agree with her that if she is doing all of this work that she is entitled to something, but this is the issue as I see it. We want better marriages, we want communication marriages, and you can't improve your marriage if you don't see the other person's side, and it is possible to see the other person's side and say, "I disagree with you." But when I take to you, Mary, I don't hear you acknowledging that you at least understand how he was thinking. I think it was wrong.
COMMENT: I know it was wrong. I think it was a one way street, and I told him that. I actually had a need because I needed money to tithe, and I didn't have it, and when the need came....
PASTOR VITALE: Let me try it one more time. I have a long message tonight. Do you understand that it is not the same thing, it is not as if he were collecting $300 a month from Kathleen and $300 a month from you, and giving Kathleen $70 and giving you $7? Can you tell me yes or no, do you understand that it is not the same thing?
COMMENT: No, I don't.
PASTOR VITALE: OK. That all I want to know. You don't understand what I'm saying. I'm going to pray for you, and then I'm going to preach. Father, I just tear down these walls, tear them down. Let them communication come forth. I rebuke condemnation. I bless this marriage. I bless this marriage, Lord. I just tear down every obstacle to a Godly union on every level between them, Lord. Bless them and bring communication. In the name of Jesus. Amen.
COMMENT: My husband has come to quite an understanding over the years, and I actually enjoy the battles now that he is able to see. His conscious level has raised.
PASTOR VITALE: That's wonderful, but in this ministry now, the end time ministry of Christ, it is time for all of us to look at ourselves and since none of us are perfect there has to be something that we contribute to every problem. So I'm not saying your husband is right or that he was right in the ways that he hurt you. I'm not ministering to him. I have nothing to do with him, but I have something to do with you, and right now what I'm working on or one of the things that I'm working with you on is helping you to see issues clearly, and I want to tell you that doesn't mean I'm saying anything....I'm not even making a judgment who is right or wrong. I'm just working with you on seeing issues clearly. I'm going to pray for you. Raise up oh you bones, live again I say. In the name of Jesus let Christ arise and put all wrong and confused thinking under foot. I break curses of mind control and confusion and pride and everything hindering a clear understanding of issues. In the name of Jesus let the power of God go forth and melt and tear down and bring healing and let Christ arise. Let the Sun of Righteousness arise, and let her eyes be clearly...in the name of Jesus. I break these curses, flush out and clear up in the name of Jesus. Amen
Think clearly. Everybody should think clearly.