186 - Part 6
THE CHRIST

The Following Message Has Been Transcribed For Clarity, Continuity Of Thought, And Punctuation By The LEM Transcribing & Editing Team.

 

Let's show people the love of God and the liberty that is in Christ, because this spirit that says if you won't believe you can't be my friend or if you don't believe it I won't talk to you, or if you don't believe it you are bad, or if you don't believe it you're wrong, this is not the spirit of Christ. This is a spirit of division and Christ is unification he is not division. So in short really what our job is when the Lord opens somebody's ears and it has to be the Lord, there has to, usually in my experience the person will ask me a question and I find that when they ask me a question, their ears are open at least long enough for me to answer, they may close down as soon as I answer it, but when they ask the question, their ears open up long enough for me to answer.

Wait for God to open the door, wait if you can't discern that the spiritual door is open, then tell God maybe you're a little carnal to make it more obvious to you that maybe the person could ask you a question, to give them the information and then drop it, and we've been teaching here for a long time now that it's a big problem for believers to, because all of us who are still pretty carnal and have our areas where everybody is pretty carnal today and it's a big problem that you have trouble telling where the gift or the spirit of God stops, and our carnal mind picks up and runs with the ball. Almost everybody that I know, almost everybody, everybody at some time, has that problem. They'll bring forth a prophecy and they think they're anointed to interpret it, but they're not, it was an anointed prophecy, they were not anointed to interpret it.

They pray for somebody, it's an anointed prayer and then they're going with the counsel, God never told them to counsel, and maybe someone is going to ask you a question, you answer the question and then they're carnal minds just keeps on going, galloping down the street, you know. So I know I'm making it sound funny, but it's not funny, it's not funny. And as we grow up in Christ, God wants us to at least petition him and say, Father help me to not do that. I'm making a joke out of it because it's never fun being criticized or corrected, but it's something you really have to petition the Lord on, to ask him to help us to recognize, I think that everybody here wouldn't do it, they could really, if someone would come up with a blinking sign and said your carnal mind is operating, your carnal mind is operating, I think everybody here would probably shut their mouth, really if I come to you with a blinking red light that said, carnal mind, you would shut up wouldn't you?

You know, make me a sign xxxxxx, she's going to make me a sign, okay. So it's funny but it's not funny because people are getting hurt, people are getting hurt, because they in some measure perceive the anointing, and then they open their mouth and they receive your whole foot as you put it in their mouth, they receive the anointing plus your whole foot, shoe and sock, and they get hurt. Of course God can get them out of it, but they get hurt and then it's not good for you because for you when God matures you into this, it will at some point start to become sin to you, and some point, I don't know when, God will make a judgment that you've had so much teaching that you're capable of discerning it, and for whatever your reason, you're not doing it, at that point you're in trouble with the Lord, and I don't know where that point is, everyone has there own, God will go to each one of you, and in some way witness to you that you're at that point.

If you're young well he'll wink at it, if he wants you to seriously pray about it, because it's very serious and as the doctrine has been coming down here for the last six months at least, this whole creation is moving upward spiritually, and even the heathen know this, I heard this on tv, that the new age coming after the year 2000, it's going to be a spiritual age, even the heathen know that. It's just like saying that there was an ice age, and then all the ice melted and the earth flooded, well if you didn't learn how to swim, you're going to drown in the melted ice.

We're going into a new age, and you've got to get your spiritual legs, if you don't get your spiritual legs, you're going to fall down on your tail. Now I'm not saying God can't get you your spiritual legs if you're a little late, he's well able of doing it, but all of a sudden one morning you wake up and you're finding spiritual enemies out there all over the place, and you haven't learned, you haven't studied, you haven't your lesson, you haven't petitioned the Lord, he could still do it, but I want to tell you I don't like drowning for fifteen years, before someone fishes me out of the water, I'd much rather know how to swim before I go into the water.

This is part 6 of our series on the Christ, and by review I will briefly tell you that the Lord is revealing to us here that there is a difference between the Christ and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the Lord has shown us that Christ is the mind of God in a man. Christ is the mind of God in a man.

The man Jesus of Nazareth had a mind that was Christ, and therefore he was called Jesus the Christ, or Jesus the inchristed one, and that mind was separate from him, it was not joined to him, and who is him, the man Jesus of Nazareth was born of a woman made in the likeness of sinful flesh, he was born with a physical body that was capable of being killed and he was also born of a carnal mind which he inherited from his mother, both of which he took total and complete dominion over, or the Christ mind in him took total and complete dominion over the carnal mind and the physical body which he inherited from his mother, his carnal mind was so suppressed and controlled and overpowered by the Christ mind that it's not even named. He is Jesus the Christ, and when he was crucified on the cross, when his body was crucified on the cross, by wicked men, at the same time or during that six hour period in the realm of the spirit, the Christ mind that was already overpowering the carnal mind which he inherited from his mother, slew that carnal mind, pierced it through, Christ slew the enmity in the flesh of the man Jesus of Nazareth, thus completely joining the two, the carnal mind was no longer overpowered, but was now completely joined to, and the Scripture says crucified to the Christ mind and we are told in the book of Colossians that of the twain, of what twain, did you ever ask the question of what twain? Of the two minds brethren, of the Christ mind and of the carnal mind, he was one man, he made one new man, the creation of God. And our natural example is human sexuality, you take a sperm and you take an ovum, and the two join so completely that they become a zygote, the first cell of the new baby, the man Jesus of Nazareth joined the two minds.

The father raised him from the dead and his physical body was absorbed up into this creation and into the glorification and he became the first cell of the creation of God. Everybody okay? Okay so basically what we're dealing with here are the Scriptures that talk about Christ dying, and it's a big confusion that the Lord is straightening out now, Christ did not die on the cross, the man Jesus of Nazareth died on the cross, and the Christ mind was joined to the carnal mind in the man Jesus, this is the crucifixion of Christ, the Scripture calls it the crucifixion of Christ but for many years we believe that that was the death of Christ, but brethren it was the death of the carnal mind, it was the slaying of the enmity in the flesh of the man Jesus. Everybody okay? We're going to go very slow. Christ did indeed die, when did he die somebody anybody please? When did Christ die? At the fall, at the fall, okay.

That was the fall, there was a creation, his name was Adam and he had a mind in him and that mind was Christ, and the carnal mind arose and slew that immature Christ, he was an immature Christ, the carnal mind slew him, and he died at the beginning of time. But now that he has been raised from the dead, Christ now who was raised from the dead, what, dieth no more, he is now raised from the dead a mature Christ, he'd been raised from the dead in the man Jesus of Nazareth, and he will die no more. I can't redo that whole thing, this is part 6, but he was an immature Christ, at the beginning of time, and if you want to study this further we have 5 other tapes on it.

Okay so this is the issue that we're dealing with here, we have a lot of Scriptures that say Christ died for us, that he would sound like Christ was sacrificed for us, and we're dealing right now with Romans 5:6-11, which have at least two verses in there saying Christ died for us and Christ died for the ungodly and we looked up every word in the Greek and we found out that that's not really what the Scripture is saying that that's what the King James translators thought it said, why? Because they didn't think there was any difference between Christ and the man Jesus of Nazareth. So quite understandably they drew that conclusion. But we have done verse 5, 6 and 7, on a prior tape and we're going to do 8-11 and I will take questions as we go on this specific issue I know it's very difficult, and it's very confusing, let me say it again, Christ did die, he did not die for us, when Christ died, it was a tragedy, when Christ died the creation fell.

The man Jesus of Nazareth died for us and because he died we're going to be raised from the dead, and we're going to see this in these few verses of Romans 5, that we're going to do tonight.

I'm going to show you the distinction, well I'll wait until we get to it, I'm going to show you the distinction, it's right there in Romans 5, and I repeat to you that God is not frivolous, he does not say Christ one time and Jesus another time, and Jesus the Christ another time because he has nothing better to do with his time, God is not frivolous, God is exact. You may have heard there are mathematicians that have put this Bible into a computer, and is a precise work of mathematical exactness. Does anyone have a question before we go any further. Glory to God, I'm going to read you our alternate translations, on verses 5,6, and 7, and I think we did the first half of 8 on the last message, and then we'll go on. Romans 5:5, "The gift of God which is the Holy Ghost is poured out into our carnal minds as an expression of God's love", why? Why would we need such an expression of God's love? Verse 6, "Because in the age of innocence that's before the fall, it was the age of innocence, which is now past, Christ died when he failed to distinguish between good and evil, that's why he died, he couldn't discern between good and evil and he got into trouble, he was an immature creation, which could be likened to a young child, who had received an instruction from his father and disobeyed, he was a creation that had no experiences.

In other words if you tell your child, Johnny don't touch the hot stove, Johnny will not hesitate to touch the hot stove because he really doesn't know what you're talking about and the rebellion which is natural in every child is severely unrestrained in a young child why? Because they no concept whatsoever of the danger that they could be in. They have no idea, they'll go running out and you tell them Johnny don't go running out in the street, it is true that they're disobedient, and they run out in the street, but it's much much more than disobedience, it is a total absence of any comprehension whatsoever that their life is in danger, and this was the condition of the creation at the beginning of time, yes he was disobedient, and he was rebellious, he was all of those things, but he was also very much what? Inexperienced, he was inexperienced.

Verse 6, "Because in the age of innocence which is now past, Christ died when he failed to distinguish between good and evil, he couldn't understand that if he didn't run out in the street it would save his life. And we were cast down because of his inability to distinguish between good and evil, we who are his descendants were cast down to this present evil age with him, where we became ungodly, and it's verse 6. Let me review those key words for you, and in due time Christ died for the ungodly. We looked up those three words in due time, and we found out that there are other translations for those words, but that's what we do here, we go into the Lexicons and we can find twenty or thirty other translations of the same word, and we found out that that phrase could be translated in another age. I should have brought my notes from the last message, in due Christ in the age across from this age, we are now in the age of death, he was in the age of innocence. Christ in that other age died, and fell down to this age, which is called death where his descendants became ungodly, and we have that in great detail on another tape if you want to follow up on that. Therefore the fall has made it difficult for anyone to die to their carnal mind, so that Christ can be fully born in them. Under these present circumstances then how can anyone possibly not only slay their carnal mind which is the enmity in our flesh, it must be slain, but how can anyone do that in our fallen condition, not only do that but also cross over into the next age, which is the life of Christ, brethren we don't have the strength to do it in this fallen condition. Alternate translation, we did the first half of verse 8, but despite the obstacles caused by our condition, the love of God is uniting the parts or the many members of the whole living soul into himself in love and when we did verse 8, we found out that that word commendeth means to be uniting the parts and that's how we got this translation.

But the despite the obstacles of our fallen humanity, the love of God, and what is the love of God somebody? Christ, the love of God in the person of Christ, is uniting the parts of this whole living soul into himself, in love. And that word love it's the agape love, it's in Christ. Going on with verse 8, "In that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us." Well here we go again Christ died for us, well how could you say Sheila that Christ died at the beginning of time, and then he didn't die on the cross but the carnal mind died on the cross. Well we looked up all these words and the word "in" is not in the Greek, the word "that" can be translated "because", the word "while" is not in the Greek, and that word "yet" while we were yet sinners, it's Strong's #2089, and it's speaking about that which went on formally, it's speaking about a different age. "sinners" we all know what that means, now the spelling as I looked up that word "died", and it's not the traditional spelling for the word died. It's an unusual spelling and I went through all the entries in Thayer's Lexicon, and I found a spelling that was very close to it, only one letter off, and sometimes that happens in the translations, and we found that that word can be translated "death", it's talking about, not that Christ died for us, but we're talking about the death of Christ, the death of Christ. So let me give you my alternate translation and if it's necessary we'll talk about it some more.

"Because in that past age, because of the sinners of the past age, Christ death is overshadowing us. Okay let me go back a little in verse 8. While we were yet sinners Christ died for us. That word "for", it can also be translated above over or to overshadow, and Thayer's says right at the beginning of that entry, 5228, he says one who does a thing or something for someone else is conceived of as standing or bending over the one that he is affecting. And what this is saying is that Christ died at the beginning of time and we're still bearing the fruits of it, and we have a Scripture that says in Adam all die and in Christ all are made alive. We all died when the creation died, now let this gets confusing, the name of the creation is Adam, he had a mind in him it was called Christ. When Adam had a mind called Christ, Adam was alive, when Adam's mind died, Adam died, when his mind died, he died, but the death of Adam was not a cessation of existence, it was a transference from an existence called life in which he had all the provisions of the father to an existence called death, he crossed over from the age of innocence to the age of death, which is also, well death is in our hearts, and this world system is hell. He crossed over into this fallen condition, who Adam. When his Christ mind died, he received a new mind and what was the name of his new mind? Carnal, carnal, his new mind's name was carnal, and death, and therefore Adam went from life unto death, he did not cease to exist, and what's really interesting is that the whole church world will teach you that there is a place called hell that when these bodies die we do not cease to exist, we go to another place where there is an existence, and they will tell you that you will exist eternally in torment. And I declare to you that I agree with every word that they're saying, the only difference between us is that I'm suggesting that we were in a high spiritual place when the father stood us up right in the garden and that that high spiritual place was called life and we fell down when Christ was killed, at the fall, and that we fell down into hell, and that we're there now, and that we cannot see the forest for the trees.

And I repeat I'm not knocking anybody, but God has commissioned me to speak the truth and part of speaking the truth is speaking the error that's being preached, I'm not against anybody, I am against their doctrine, but I'm not against anybody, but it's not a hostility, or any form of enmity. I'm trying to bring a correction here. We can't see the forest for the trees. We've been down here in hell for so many thousands of years, and we know that to our mind we're not dead, of course according to God we're dead, because what is the Scriptural definition of death? It's the carnal mind, it's separation from God. But we've been down here for so long that we think that death is the death of this body but it's not true. We died when Christ died at the fall, thousands of years ago and we're down here in hell, and when our body dies it's just the end, our spirit died and our soul is dying and when our body dies it's just the end of the process, but because we're carnal and we have trouble understanding that, and then if you look up in any of the Lexicons or if you speak to any of the preachers they'll tell you well hell is a place under the ground, well you're not under the ground, well yes I am under the ground, because I'm not this body brethren. I am spirit, I am not this body, this is body is a house, the Scripture clearly states that this body is house, it's a garment. I am spirit and you are spirit, and we possess a soul and we live in a body, and my spirit and your spirit brethren is buried under your dead soul, and the name of your dead soul is your carnal mind, and your carnal mind is inside of this body and you better believe you're buried under the ground. He called them walking Sepulchers.

We're dead, even Paul said, if you live in sin you're dead while you yet liveth. We're dead, you gotta get your definitions straight brethren, I've tried to have conversations with several people recently, can't even have a conversation with them, because our definitions don't agree, you can't have any kind of an even godly conversation, if you cannot agree on your definitions, and I said to one man, well can't we get some definitions here, I mean the poor guy was so upset by what I was saying to him he wasn't even willing to sit down and work some definitions with me. He never had heard anything like this, he was freaking out. Brethren we have to agree on some definitions around here. You go to anybody writing up a contract, you go to any lawyer, you go to any businessman, it's the first thing they do is lay out the definitions.

How can we have a conversation, if I say microphone, and it means one thing to me and means something else to you, it can't be, these things can't be. The communication breaks down right there at the grass roots. Okay, so we're in the second half of Romans 5:8, and we're translating it, "Because in the past age, in the past age sinners cries death is overshadowing us. Or the death of Christ from the past age is still, has fallen and followed us into this age. Christ died in the age of innocence, plummeting us down into this age of death, and that's why we're spiritually weak, and that's why it's so hard for us to get out of this condition, and in reality we know that we can't do it, that's why we need a savior, you good works won't get you out of here. And the reality of what Jesus is doing for us, is that he is literally taking a drop the size of a mustard seed, of his spiritual life, of the life of the realm of God's kingdom, and he's planting inside of us with the full intention that it will grow up into a big tree, and utterly overtake and swallow up everything that we are, and we will be absorbed into the kingdom of God which is growing within us, we're not going to be raptured out to Mars, but the life of God has been planted in us, and will grow up into all of our earth and swallow up all of the death which we are, that's from the inside out, it's not from the outside in, but because we are carnal we think it's from the outside, that what's from the outside? That the salvation is coming from the outside, we think that it's coming to the body first, we think that our body is going to be taken out of here to a place of safety, but it's not coming from the outside, it's coming from the inside, and our spirit is being dealt with first, and then our soul and then our body.

It's from the inside out brethren. "Because Christ death in the past age is still affecting us. So before I give you the alternate translation, I would like to tell you that the word, or the words we were, we were yet sinners in the phrase, we were yet sinners is Strong's #5707 and it's merely one of the tenses of the verb to be, the Interlinear translates it "being" which is the present participle, so we see there's a question of the tense, there is a difference of opinion with regard to the tense between the King James translators and Mr. Green who is the translator of Interlinear Text. So we are going to use the present participle, we are going to say being, in our alternate translation. Well first of all let me give you an alternate translation of the second half of Romans 5:8. We being sinners because the death of the imputed Christ in the past age is still overshadowing us. Alternate translation the whole of Romans 5:8, "But the love of God is uniting the members of the whole living soul into himself through the imparted Christ, we being sinners because the death of the imputed Christ in the past age, is overshadowing us." Now I'd like to give you an amplified translation of Romans 5:8, "But since we're sinners, because the death of the imputed Christ in the past age is still overshadowing us, the love of God is uniting the members of the whole living soul into himself through the imparted Christ." Hallelujah, now I added in the words, imparted and imputed Christ because if you look at it in the King James, Paul is just saying Christ and he doesn't distinguish between the imparted or the immature Christ, which was capable of dying, largely because he was inexperienced and the imparted or the mature Christ who dieth no more, why is he dying no more, I'm giving it to you backwards this time, why can't he die anymore Christ? He was raised from the dead and Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more.

Okay because in the resurrection he has what we call an imparted anointing, he has had many experiences, he is grown up from seed, the father has led him through his youth, he's learned how to use the power of God, he's learned how to overcome the enmity in his own flesh and he has slain that enmity and therefore he can't die anymore, he's killed and totally prevailed over his enmity. So I have added in imputed and imparted Christ, because Paul doesn't distinguish between the immature or the mature Christ, this is a deep mystery in the Scripture brethren. This is not milk. Nevertheless despite the obstacles caused by our fallen condition, the love of God is uniting the members of the whole living soul, into himself through the imparted Christ, because the death of the imputed Christ in the past age, we're still dead because of it. We should have said that, because we're still dead because of the death of the imputed Christ in the past age, and the way he's uniting us is that he's giving all of us a piece of his heart. Christ is not divided. If Christ is in you and Christ is in you and Christ is in me we have the same spirit, there will be no division. If everybody in a situation wills and prays to manifest Christ, there will be reconciliation. I don't care how bad the problem is, I don't care what it looks like, where the spirit of God there is reconciliation and God has an answer to every problem. If you will honestly yield up your members to him and be willing to obey him, I don't care how bad the situation looks, if everybody does that, peace will come in the situation, if everybody does what God tells them to do.

And I want to tell you there's no losers in Christ, you don't lose in Christ. If you humble yourself before God and if he does ask you to give something up, if you give it up you'll get it back many fold over, maybe not the next day, I can't promise you that, but you'll get it back many fold over. Why? Because he is limitless as to his resources, he's limitless and he fully intends to complete all of us, to bless all of us beyond our wildest dreams, but first we must come into obedience to him, blessings come after you come into submission in obedience, after he breaks your witchcraft and he breaks you of your ungodly will and your rebellion and brings you into Godly order, there is nothing he wants more than to bless you. So there is also no reason to be envious of anybody, he is limitless in his resources.

I want to tell you I was raised up in a church where there was one woman who really had the pastor, and she hated me and she didn't want to let me do anything in that ministry and she had a couple of friends, so they had everything pretty much all sewed up, except for one area where they simply were not qualified, so he called me. But aside from all that, I went before the Lord and I told the Lord, I will not play this game, I said Lord, I will not play this game, there are so many people in this world that need ministry, either you put me in that pulpit I won't go, let them preach, let them preach every night, I will not fight for this, and look at what he did, not only did he give me a ministry, what a ministry. I'm telling you brethren, don't be envious, resist with all your strength, resist it with all your strength, he's got something wonderful for you, if you'll just work as hard as you can to resist your carnality, if you show him that you're obeying his word, if you're seeking first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, he is limitless in his resources towards you. There's no reason to be carnal, there's no reason to fight for a ministry or for any control over people, there's no reason for it, that's carnal, it's to be resisted.

Okay, I do have one reference for you, indicating that the ages are in our hearts, because what I'm suggesting to you is that the fall of the Christ, when Christ died, that his heart died, or his mind died and that now death reigns in us in the form of our carnal mind and that is Eccl. 3:11, says, "Also he hath set the world or the age in their heart." So whether or not we have the age of life which is Christ, or whether or not we have the age of death which is the carnal mind, that is talking about the condition of our heart, and I would like to comment once again on the fact that Jesus of Nazareth had a carnal mind, it's come to my attention recently that some people get very upset when I say that because they would like to believe that he was absolutely, well he was perfect, they would like to believe that he had nothing at all of what imperfect people have but brethren that's how he identified with us, that was the whole purpose of this whole thing, he was made in the form of sinful flesh, he had a mother who was flawed, he was made after the flesh, after the seed of Israel, I think that's Romans 1, I know it's in Romans, I think it's chapter one. After the flesh, he's after the seed of David, did I say Israel, it's David, after the seed of David.

He had a physical body that was born out of a woman covered with blood and after birth just like everybody else, and he had a carnal mind, which he received from his mother, that was what made him a man. If he didn't have a carnal mind from his mother, he wouldn't have been a man. But the mind of his father, which is Christ, overtook that carnal mind, overpowered it, brought it into submission, crushed it and refused to let it sin, doesn't the book of Revelation say, to he that overcometh the promise is for he who overcometh. Brethren Jesus of Nazareth overcame. What did he overcome, his human heritage, and he overcame it by the power of God and because he did it, we too can do it. Glory to God. Okay things are going fairly smoothly tonight, Romans 5:9, "Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him." Now before we go on, let me point out to you please that in verse 8 the Scripture is speaking about Christ, he's not speaking about Jesus, he's not speaking about Jesus Christ, as a matter of fact, in verse 6 he's talking about Christ, and in verse 8 he's talking about Christ, and in verse 9 he's talking about his, we have a pronoun, his, and I want to suggest to you that Paul is talking about Christ, he's not talking about the man Jesus, he's talking about Christ, it doesn't say Jesus Christ, it says Christ, Christ the mind that was in the man Jesus, that caused him to be enchristed. The reason Jesus was the enchristed one was that his mind, every thought that he thought came forth from the mind called Christ which is the expression of the father, in the mind of a man. Verse 9, "Much more then being now justified by Christ's blood, it doesn't say Jesus of Nazareth's blood, it doesn't say our Lord Jesus Christ's blood, "Much more then now being justified by Christ blood, and I suggest to you that's the imparted Christ, one who's been raised from the dead, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

The life of the flesh is in the blood brethren, I suggest to you that this Scripture is speaking about the spiritual blood of the resurrected Christ. Anybody have a problem with that? The spiritual blood of the resurrected Christ, Christ is spirit brethren, Christ does not have the red blood that flows through the veins of a human body, we're talking about the mind now, Christ is a mind. So when the Scripture says blood it's a mysterious way of saying the life that is in the mind of Christ, and did we not just say that the man Jesus of Nazareth had a mind that was Christ and that every thought without exception that he thought, and everything that he did which was, because everything that we do is a result of our thoughts, came forth from the mind of God being expressed through a man, or being expressed through this soul realm. Now we know that Jesus said, his brothers were concerned he wasn't eating or his family was concerned he wasn't eating, he said I have meat you know not of.

Brethren the mind of Christ has the strength to sustain the life of this body. A mind of Christ in full stature, the mind of Christ raised from the dead is the life of this body, now when the existence is caused by our carnal mind, when we are existing in this realm of death, we need food and water to survive and the life of our existence is the red blood of, or it's blue before it comes to the surface, but the human blood, you know what I'm talking about, the blood that is blue in our veins and red when it hits the air, is keeping us alive.

If you puncture your vein and you slit your wrist and your blood pours out, even though you think that you're born again, saved sanctified and filled with the Holy Ghost, brethren, don't slit my wrist, because I would expect to die. Because this blood that flows through these veins is keeping me alive at this point, why? Because the mind of Christ in me is not yet raised from the dead, he is in the process of, but he is not yet fully raised from the dead, and brethren I declare to you if Christ in me will raise from the dead, you could slit my wrist you hang me on a cross, you could put nails in me, please don't do it, you know if you wanted to try, you could hit me with a car, you puncture me on every level, drain every drop of blood out of my body, and I declare to you that either I'm not sure, either I would function without it, or it would regenerate, one or the other, why? Because the life of the flesh will no longer be this vile fallen blood, but it will be the blood of Christ keeping this flesh alive, and I have it on another tape. There's not a doubt in my mind that if Jesus the Christ had chosen to do so, as he hung there on the cross with his body penetrated by nails, if he wanted to, he could have gotten down off the cross, if every drop of blood had drained out of his body, he would have either lived without it or he would have regenerated it, but he didn't do it, why didn't he do it?

He was raised him up one notch higher and he glorified the whole man, not only his body, the whole man was raised from the dead, spirit, soul, and body and completely combined and integrated so completely that the mind of Christ was no longer separate from the body, but they were as we said earlier, the flesh of the body and the soul was transmuted, it was converted into another substance, and so completely combined with the mind of Christ, that one new substance was produced. Our natural example is salt in water, the salt will dissolve so completely you will have one new substance called salt water. That was what happened to the man Jesus of Nazareth. Okay so let's try and get back to you now.

So we're on verse 9, and I said all that to say this, that the phrase his blood is speaking about the spiritual light of the resurrected Christ, also called the imparted Christ, everybody okay? Much more then being now justified and what is justification? Anybody want to say what justification is? Anybody? Justification, did you want to try? Justification is right standing with God, we are now, all of this in this room are justified before God and that means that he is dealing with us, he is not looking at our sin but dealing with us with a heart of reconciliation, but it does not mean the word justification does not mean that we are without sin, it means that God has received us in our fallen condition and is willing to work with us to clean us up, so that we are without sin, okay but we have a lot of teaching in the church world, that says because we're justified, we're without sin, I had a pastor say that to me three months ago, he said , "you mean you believe you sin?", and I said "yeah", he was shocked.

I really like the man, a very well meaning man, and I prayed that God touched him and I said brother everything that's not of faith is sin, even if you desire an ice cream cone, if doesn't come our of the realm of the spirit, God says it's sin. His mouth fell open, I guess that's what he was taught.

See most people don't question what they're taught they just believe it, only when you come to a meeting like this you question what you're taught, but that's okay, we've got thinking people here, you keep thinking, you keep thinking, don't be parrot that mimics what I say, all you think, because it's not doing you any good to parrot what I say, it's got to be your revelation, it's got to be mixed with your heart, and you've got to get your own show here. So much more then, being now justified by his blood, so how are we justified by Christ blood, brethren it's got to be inside of you for you to be justified by it. We know that Jesus died for the whole world, and that salvation is for whosoever may, whosoever will, but for you to partake of this offer, his blood has got to get inside of you, who's blood, Christ's blood has got to get inside of you, not Jesus Christ blood, but Christ's blood. Now listen to this subtlety, brethren when you receive the Holy Spirit, that is not Christ's blood. The Holy Spirit is the seed of the father and he has come with gifts to bring forth Christ in you.

So when you receive the Holy Spirit, this is just the beginning of the procedure that will save your life how? How are we going to be saved? In childbearing. Brethren you've got to have the baby, it's not enough to get the male seed, you've got to conceive and you've got to bear the child. I didn't say it, Paul said it. Okay. "Much more then, being now that we're justified because Christ has been conceived in us, we shall be saved from wrath through him, now check this out, we're not going to, that's not the salvation of our soul, we're going to be saved from wrath through him, through who? Through Christ. Now wrath brethren comes from God. Wrath is the judgment of God upon this fallen creation. And there is a mediator down here in hell where this wrath is flowing, what's another name for this wrath, does anybody know what form of substance the wrath of God takes in hell? Fire. The fire in hell brethren is God, the fire in hell is God.

We're down here, we are banished from the garden, and are as far away from the life of God as you can get, and God is a son, he's a fire, he's heat, he's life, he's light, and we were banished from the garden, out into darkness, coldness, but there is a fire in hell, everybody knows that, but it's not Satan's fire brethren, it's the fire of God.

But there is a mediator, there's somebody executing the wrath of God upon the inhabitants of hell, what's his name? Satan. Satan is God's servant. We're clearly told in Job 1 that the sons of God came to see the Lord and amongst them was Satan, and the father spoke to him and set him on Job, challenged him and set him on Job.

So the wrath of God is the judgment of God upon the fallen creation and it is found in hell, and it is mediated by Satan. But we're told that we're saved from wrath by Christ. Brethren when Christ is formed in you or is in the process of being formed in you, as you begin to live out of him, you are delivered from the wrath of God, which is present in hell, okay let me try and explain that to you a little. When we live out of our carnal mind brethren, we're under constant judgment, it's not true that you're under grace and you're not under the law, when you're living out of your carnal mind, your carnal mind is under the law, your carnal mind is under wrath, your carnal mind is under the wrath of God which is being executed by Satan every ungodly thought that comes out of you that you don't lay hold of, lay hold of every imagination and cast it down, everyone that gets past you will have a just recompense. Now the difference between you and the sinner in the street, is that that just recompense will not be unto destruction, that just recompense will be unto conviction and repentance and deliverance from that which caused you to the think that ungodly thought which was sin. Why?

Because when you see the wrath of God coming at you, you're going to fall down on your face, and say, "Father in heaven I have sinned, have on mercy on me, what do I do, how do I get out of this?" So if you're sinner out there in the street, and you don't know any better, you just keep on going and it's unto destruction. So when Christ begins to be formed in you, you are delivered from wrath, because you're going to start thinking out of him, you're going to start living out of him, you're going to start implementing the power of his life against what? Against your own carnal mind, which is trying to destroy you with ungodly thoughts which are sin.

So when you choose to live out of Christ, it's not only living out of Christ, but it's waging a warfare against your own carnal mind, wounding it, hurting it, for what purpose brethren, to overpower it. Remember me saying that Jesus was the Christ, even though he had a carnal mind, because that carnal mind was totally overpowered and suppressed by the Christ in him, to the point that he could not sin and because he overcame that carnal mind, the father raised him from the dead. Brethren that's what you're suppose to be doing. When Christ begins to be formed in you that's the beginning of the war. He is the weapons of your warfare, and you start to wound that carnal mind which is a wild ravaging beast, he's not going to wound easy, and you start to put him under foot. So that's how we are saved from wrath, by Christ. Any questions in this area?

COMMENT: Was Satan in the sons of God?

PASTOR VITALE: He was present with them. I believe the Scripture says, "And the sons of God came before the Lord, and Satan with them." Job 1, right at the beginning.

COMMENT: But he has to be within them.

PASTOR VITALE: Oh within them, I didn't understand your question. Oh, yes, Satan is within the minds of man. Brethren this whole creation is within the mind of man, it's our fallen condition that makes us think that spiritual beings whether they're satanic or whether it's Satan, whether they're demons or angels, it's our fallen mind that makes us think they're outside of us. All spiritual life is inside of us. Now we know the Holy Ghost is inside of us, we don't have any problem with that, we know the Holy Ghost speaks out of us when we prophesy or speak in tongues, we don't have any problem with that. Well I declare to you that it's not logical to say that the spirit of God is inside of you, but the spirit of Satan is outside of you.

Spiritual is spiritual, either spirit is inside of you or spirit is outside of you, it doesn't really matter which spirit it is. If I take three women and I'll take two of them and one of them is very tall and one is very short, one is black and one is white, and one has one arm and one has three arms, you know, you're still women, and you're still going to have some basic things in common. There are certain things that can be expected of you. You're all capable of having children, except if someone is not functioning. We all have the same structure, some a little bigger, some a little smaller, do you not know what I'm talking about, spirit is spirit. One spirit can't be inside and the other one outside of you. Spirit is spirit, either it has to be inside or outside of you.

COMMENT: I heard the teaching that the devil is our conscious mind and Satan is our unconscious mind. Am I right?

PASTOR VITALE: Yeah.

COMMENT: I just heard a song on the tv, and I think it was advertising a car, I don't really remember, but it said, she walks like an angel talks like an angel but she's deadly inside.

PASTOR VITALE: Yeah, the whole world knows, it's just the church that doesn't know, it's just the church that thinks the devil is outside, it comes, I guess it's, what it really is it's a combination, it's either a combination or it's one or the other, I guess it's really either a spirit of fear, okay, that people get very frightened when they think Satan could be in their mind, but my answer to that is, brethren he's been your unconscious mind from the day you were born, there's no reason to be frightened now that you're forty years old, he's been there for forty years, you just found out about it, so it's either that, or it's a Pharisitical spirit that makes the person want to believe that they're clean because they got the Holy Ghost or because they go to church every Sunday, and the reality brethren is that we are not clean. The reality is that we are filthy, that the Lord justified us that he has access to the spirit of God, just because he loves us, we certainly don't deserve it, and that this spirit of God is the Holy Spirit of promise and what is the spirit of promise, it is the promise of salvation, and no unclean thing is getting into the kingdom, the only way we are getting into the kingdom is to have the wickedness that we were born with purged out of us and replaced with the righteousness of Christ.

So what we see in this hour is a church world that has received the gifts of the king saying come and be my bride, but you look at the story of Esther, I believe she went through 6 months or 1 year of cleansing and purification before she could meet the king, and that's what the church is suppose to be going through now, although not everybody is doing what they're suppose to be doing, because the teaching isn't really accurate, or we're suppose to be purifying ourselves, in preparation for the king, it's just not true that all that we have to do is go to church every Sunday and then our body is going to die and we're going to go to heaven, it's just not true. You have to get your own witness, you don't have to believe it if you don't want to, but I'm telling you very strongly, pray about it, because it's not true.

God has made a creation and he intends to live in this creation and he intends to appear in this creation, and he intends to be glorified in this creation and I can't find one Scripture that shows my God running from any battle. I saw him burn Sodom and Gomorrah, I saw him lead the Hebrew children into Canaan land and wipe out the idolaters and the heathens, I saw him take Joshua and the Hebrew children, and anointed them to take Jericho.

It is not Scripturally consistent to say that our God is going get us out of here, it's just not Scripturally consistent, I've never seen our God run, you show me one Scripture where he ran, it's just not true, he's going to give us the victory right here, brethren, and the battlefield is your mind. The enemy is your mind that you were born with. Now you have a new mind, he's not condemning you, he wants to give you a new mind and by that new mind, he wants you to take dominion over your mind that is death, what a glorious message.

So if you're hearing this tape, and you've got a real problem with the fact that Satan is in your mind, I encourage you to go before the Lord and ask him if it isn't a spirit of pride, you're having a problem believing that this could be your condition, but it's the condition of the whole world it's not just you. So if you can't receive that, then you might want to ask the Lord why you think that you're better than the whole world, because none is good, brethren, no not one. And if you speak in tongues, and if you dance in the church, not if you preach, not if you play an instrument, none is good, your righteousness is as filthy rags. And you're not fooling anyone but yourself, and I just encourage anybody here on this tape to get before God, because I'm telling you the truth. Okay, so we are on verse 9 of Romans 5, so now that we are justified, we have access to God, even though we're still filthy, why? Because Christ is conceived in us, we shall be saved from the wrath of God that is upon us because we are thinking with our carnal mind, through him, when we transfer into Christ, we have to start living out of him, and thinking out of him.

I ask the Lord all the time, father what are your thoughts in this situation. What do you think, give me godly thoughts, and let me point out to you also, that if you have not received Christ you are not saved from wrath. Brethren you've got to conceive Christ, there's a lot of opposition to this message, but I'm going to preach it until there's no voice left in me. The Holy Spirit will not cut it, you must conceive Christ. There is one primary overriding function of the Holy Spirit and that is to join with your human spirit and begin the process of raising Christ in you from the dead. Our human spirit is one of the bones, or one of the skeletons, one of the bones of the skeleton of Christ, your human spirit is one of the bones that Ezekiel talks about, and the father challenges him and says, Oh son of man, can these bones live again? Prophesy unto these bones. I prophesy to every human spirit in the sound of my voice, live again, in the name of Jesus, rise from the dead. It's time to give up the baby fairy tales brethren, the time is hand whether you believe it or not, these things are coming to pass in the earth, don't you want to be a part of it? Cling to your fairy tales, and that's all you'll have in your arm is a rag doll, when the Lord appears. Hallelujah.

Let's try verse 10. Oh I have an alternate translation, I do have something on the word "wrath", it's Strong's #3709, and Thayer's Lexicon of the Greek language says it's talking about the natural disposition or the disposition of the natural man, temper, character, agitation of the soul, emotions brethren, any form of emotions is directly associated with the carnal mind. The mind of Christ is a rational mind, he's a rational mind, he's not emotion, he thinks rationally. If he sees somebody coming at him with a machine gun, he doesn't respond with fear, all the emotions are in the carnal mind, and they're destructive to you. This word "wrath" also means impulse, desire, violent emotion, but especially anger. Now we know there is a righteous anger, but that's not what this word anger is talking about, this is talking about the anger of the carnal man.

Alternate translation, Rom.5:9, "Much more preferable than being justified at this present time, by the resurrected Christ life then, there's something even better than that, listen to this, much more preferable than being justified now at this present time by the resurrected Christ life, there's something better that our souls shall be saved from God's judgment, upon this fallen creation, because of him. It's better than being justified, it's better than being justified. To be justified lets us stay in this fallen condition and have access to the benefits of God, and we're under a period of grace right now, the Holy Sprit is very gentle with us brethren, very gentle with us, but this grace period is coming to an end. I remember when Bill Britton preached that, he was severely persecuted for it. Brethren the period of grace is coming to a close, and what is the period of grace, will you stay in your fallen condition, will you think with your carnal mind, will you live out of your carnal mind and you still partake of the benefits of Christ, that age is closing out, it's called the church age, and it's coming to an end, and what does that mean? It means that you're going to have to start dealing with your sin because the Lord's not going to tolerate it anymore.

It's time to grow up, he no longer wants you to use the power of his spirit to sing, and there's nothing wrong with singing and dancing, but there's more to it than that. It's like you would say to your little kid, you've got to stop playing games all day, it's time now, you have to start getting into the first and second grade, you have to start growing up and taking responsibility. This age of grace of just singing and dancing is coming to an end, and this age where you go out and give out tracks, and look at everybody else in the world and consider them to be the dirty rotten sinners, it's coming to an end, you've got to start looking at the beam that's in your own eye, you've got to start looking at your heart as the Lord reveals it to you and confess the sin that he shows you, and as he grants you repentance, because you can't repent unless he grants it to you, to repent and work on laying hold of the power of Christ within your own mind and change you. Changing that ungodly behavior for a godly behavior, it's time to work brethren on ourselves, not on the heathens, it's in the church, judgment begins in the house of the Lord, and with the elders thereof.

So there's something better than justification, and that is the deliverance from the wrath that's upon this creation by judging our own souls and living out of Christ. "Much more preferable than being justified at this present time, by the resurrected Christ life, then, our souls shall be saved from God's judgment upon this fallen creation because of him." Just as we shall be saved, the reason I said our soul shall be saved is that salvation is unto the soul, salvation is unto the soul. The whole creation is redeemed, the spirit is resurrected, the soul is saved, glory to God.

Going on with verse 10, "For if when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his son.." Now this is not Christ anymore, check this out, "For if when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his son, much more being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. Okay now verse 9 is talking about Christ, and it's talking about salvation from wrath. Verse 10 is speaking about the son that is the Lord Jesus Christ glorified, and we are saved by his life, we're not saved from wrath, we're saved by his life. So what is that saying, it's saying that through Christ, we are delivered from the wrath of God, we're saved from the wrath of God by the presence of the son, that means the son being our mind, that's talking about the Christ in us becoming the son. Okay we're saved by the life of the son, we're saved by the full birth of the manchild, that's what it's saying, when Christ is conceived we're saved from wrath, when Christ is fully born in us and becomes the son, our whole person is saved by his life.

"For if when we were enemies, when were we enemies? When we were living out of our carnal mind, and if you're still living out of your carnal mind, you're still God's enemy, we were reconciled to God, by the death of his son. That's the Lord Jesus Christ.

We were still enemies but when the Lord Jesus Christ gave up his soul life, we were reconciled to God, and how did the death of the Lord Jesus Christ reconcile us to God? Because when the Lord Jesus Christ gave up his soul life, and the father glorified him and he became pure spirit, he's now pouring out of his spirit upon all flesh and because he's inside of us, and he's causing us to conceive the son, well we're reconciled to God because the spirit of the Lord Jesus Christ is in us, and once he enters in to us, his name changes to what? To the Holy Spirit, and then the Holy Spirit brings forth Christ, so we're reconciled by the Lord Jesus Christ by the male seed of the father, entering in to our heart reconciles us, but we're not saved until the son comes forth in us, we've got to have the baby, we've got to bear the manchild, you're not saved by the Holy Spirit, you're not, it's just not true.

COMMENT: When it takes place will we be pure spirit?

PASTOR VITALE: When the manchild is born? No, the birth of the manchild is the full birth of Christ in us, that's the full resurrection of our human spirit, and we'll still have this kind of a body, okay. At the resurrection of Christ in you, you will be in full stature, and that fully mature Christ in you will be totally overpowering the carnal mind, it will not be able to sin, and this condition will give life to your soul and preserve your body. You will not be able to die unless you agree to it, but you'll still be in a fallen body as xxxx and I were talking this afternoon, which still has to go to the bathroom. I honestly don't know whether Jesus ate when he was in full stature, I don't know whether he needed to eat or not, I don't know, but I know that it's still a body that has, he still had the fallen blood in his veins. So there still had to be some function of this body, I think, but you're not pure spirit until the glorification. At the full birth of the son or at the full resurrection of Christ, I believe our body will be preserved, that means no problems with it. Every disease, any condition that you have will be healed.

COMMENT: What did you mean when you said, they can die if they choose to?

PASTOR VITALE: Well Jesus gave up his soul life, he said no man taketh my life, I lay it down. He agreed that the flesh of the man Jesus of Nazareth would die, if he didn't agree he wouldn't have died. And if you remember in another teaching I know I have it on a recent tape that when, if you look up those words that Jesus sighed and gave up the ghost, and he died, that those words in the Greek indicate that he willfully breathed out of that body, that it was not an involuntary action, that body died when the spiritual life of Christ left it, and he left it by an act of his will, otherwise that body would have never died.

COMMENT: He was fulfilling the will of the father, we no reason for anything like that.

PASTOR VITALE: For us personally, no it's my understanding there's no reason for us to go through that. And then Paul had a similar experience, Paul said, I'm delivered up, because Paul's body couldn't have died either unless he agreed with it, and the reason that it happened with Paul is that he was born out of season, it was not time for a men in full stature to walk on the earth. But for a season he was there, I believe Paul finished out the work that Jesus of Nazareth started, I believe that Paul completed the work, he wrote all of these letters that became the New Testament for us, he was there in Christ stead and when his work was done, he was taken. Okay so let me say it again, we're reconciled by the son's death, it's the death of the Lord Jesus Christ, but for us to be reconciled he's got to get inside of us, and when he gets inside of us his name becomes the Holy Spirit.

And we're saved from wrath when he causes us to receive Christ, when who, the spirit of the Lord Jesus Christ called the Holy Spirit, when he's inside of us, when he causes us to conceive Christ we're saved from wrath, which is the wrath which is upon our carnal thoughts, and the wrath is coming from God, and then our souls are saved from the life of the son when Christ is fully born in us. Everybody okay, look at the progression there, look at the progression, we're reconciled by the Holy Spirit and saved from wrath when we conceive Christ and our soul is saved when Christ if formed, when the manchild is fully born in us. And this teaching in the church that you get the Holy Spirit and that's it until you're raptured, what an abomination, God must surely hate it, it's death, it's death.

Okay verse 10, there's really nothing unusual about those words, let me read it. "For when we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his son." Oh we did that already, "Much more being reconciled we shall be saved by his life, because if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God because of his son's death, much better than being reconciled we shall be saved by his son's life, not Christ's life, but his son's life. The formation of Christ in us saves us from wrath, but it's the fully raised resurrected glorified son of God, the glorified Lord Jesus Christ who is saving our life, what does that mean, it means that if Jesus of Nazareth was not crucified, raised from the dead and that raised from the dead is talking about his whole person not only Christ in him but also the adamic soul and physical body that he inherited from his mother, the whole person of the man Jesus being raised from the dead, and being glorified, who is now pouring out of his spirit upon all flesh, has made is possible for Christ in us to be raised from the dead.

So the glorified Lord Jesus Christ is saving our life how? By raising Christ from the dead in us who is saving us from the wrath of God, which is what? Death.

Verse 11, "And not only so but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ by whom we have now received the atonement." That's a pretty easy verse, I'd just like to comment that the word reconciliation, or the word atonement which means reconciliation is Strong's #2643 and it means adjustment of a difference, or restoration to favor, and I want to suggest to you that Christ in us is making an adjustment and the full birth of the son in us is making an adjustment in our spiritual condition. Does anybody know what the adjustment is? What's being changed? Our moral order is being changed. Right now our moral order is Satan, the carnal mind, and us, and our moral order is being changed to the father Christ and us the man underneath, and that's the adjustment that's being changed.

So we see that we're saved from wrath, we see that our life is saved, and now we see that the atonement has been made and that we are reconciled unto God. Not only so but we also joy, or that means boast in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement. So the atonement is beyond salvation. We're saved by this adjustment, brethren it must happen to you. You can't preach it, it's not an intellectual thing, it's not salvation by doctrine, it's not salvation by doctrine, it has to happen to you. There's a whole church world of people out there that think that they're being saved because of their doctrine. Doctrine can't save you, the life of the son will save you, you must bear the manchild of Revelation 12, you must have your soul judged, your carnal mind has to be cast out into the sea.

We have to be willing to go along with him, but he reads the program, but if nothing is happening to you, I would be very suspicious, I would be petitioning the Lord, because our heart is desperately wicked, and it deceives us at every turn, and sometimes we don't really know what's in our own heart, sometimes our heart does not want to face, does not want to come into our conscious mind, what's really in our heart, our heart doesn't really want to be exposed, what's really in our heart, our heart doesn't want us to be exposed and we're completely blind to it. So if there's no changes coming in my life, I would be real nervous about it, I'd get before the Lord and say Father, is my desperately wicked heart deceiving me and if it is or if there's anything wrong with my heart that I'm not aware of, please help me, I would be on my face before God if I didn't see growth and change in me.

COMMENT: Is it the sin of pride to push in these areas to believe that he's doing this work in us, to presume that he is forming Christ in me. Is ever pride to presume that he is doing this.

PASTOR VITALE: Well I believe that presumption is a sin, that you have to ask him and believe that he's going to answer you, if you're not in a condition where he speaks to you, but of course you hear from him, I think if it was me, I would want many, I don't believe God will ever tire of giving you witnesses and lots of times when it's something personal, and I know that those are the areas where your own heart really gets you, in personal areas, if you're a young woman and you want a husband, or if there's something that you really want, and you think that you've given it to God, and to the best of your knowledge you've said Lord your will and not mine, and you really think you've given it to God, I know because I have personally experienced being deceived by own heart, that only God really knows what's really in there. So when it comes to something like that, God will talk to me if it's him and I'll say, I don't want to hear your audible voice, I don't want to hear these voices, send somebody else, or show it to me in a way that I'm going to know it's you Lord cause I don't believe voices. I talk to him like that, I'm very bold with God, I believe that it's acceptable to him, and I know that personal areas, are areas where people are very vulnerable, I say take your voice and go away, I don't want it, I'll say I'm not believing this, until I hear it from at least two or three sources and I'm convinced it's you and I won't act on it.

I remember when God first started giving one of these revelations it was years ago, I was still in another church, and I was out on my lunch hour, I had a secular job and I was walking down the street in Patchogue and he started talking to me about one of the controversial doctrines in this ministry and I said wow Lord you're going to have to show me that one in the Bible before I believe that, and before I knew I was going and I went into that Country Parson's book store and wound up with a Philips rendition of the New Testament and there it was. Recap Romans 5:5-8, The gift of God which is the Holy Ghost, is poured out into our carnal minds as an expression of God's love, because in the age of innocence, which is now past, Christ died when he failed to distinguish between good and evil and we were cast down to this present evil age with him, and became ungodly. Therefore the fall has made it very difficult for anyone to die to their carnal mind so that Christ can be fully born in them, under these present circumstances then, how can anyone possibly not only slay their carnal mind but also cross over into the life of Christ.

But since we're sinners because the death of the imputed Christ in the past age is still overshadowing us, the love of God is uniting the members of the whole living soul into himself through the imparted Christ.

Much more preferable than being justified at this present time by the resurrected Christ life then, our soul shall be saved from God's judgment upon this fallen creation because of him, because if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God because of his son's death, much better than being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. And I see here that I have a couple of references for you of other Scriptures that sound like Christ died for us, in accordance with the way that the King James translators have translated it, Romans 3:14-15 says, "But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat now walkest thou not charitably, destroy not him with thy meat for whom Christ died." We have the same principle of translation here as we found in Roman's 5:6-8, the Greek word translated "for" can also be translated "across from" and the Greek word translated "died" can also be translated "death". Don't destroy your brother who is across from or in the age across from Christ death, and Christ died in the age of innocence. So the age across from him, is this ungodly age where we're dead. Don't destroy your brother who is across from Christ death or who is in the age across from Christ death, down here where we became ungodly. Don't destroy your brother who is dwelling and existing in this ungodly age despite the fact that he is doing the best that he can to live for God.

Don't you who are already ascending back up into the realm of the spirit, hinder your brother, from doing or engaging in the carnal practices that are the pathway to this ascension, you did them when you were a young Christian and as you walked along the path following Christ, you found yourself ascending into the new age of Christ where there is liberty where you don't have to be concerned about the meat that you eat, and many of the other carnal commandments of the church, don't you go back to your brother, who's still a youngster, on that path, the same path that you path traveled and cause him to stumble because he cannot understand that he will eventually grow out of the rituals that he's engaging in.

Romans 6: 1-11, and the reason I chose these verses, is to contrast for you the difference between the death of Christ and the death of the man Jesus of Nazareth. Now we've talked a lot tonight about the death of the Christ, that the Christ died at the fall, in the age across from this age, in the age of innocence, and now in Romans 6:1-11, we read somewhat about the death of the man Jesus Christ, and then we also there is, I think there is some talk about Christ, it goes back and forth, so I just want to bring some brief comments on that and tie it into this message.

Tape 2

"What shall we say then, shall we continue in sin that grace may abound. Let me get the verse before that, well what Paul is talking about is now that you have Christ is it okay for you to give free reign to sin, and a lot of people in the church are preaching that, well you have Christ you're covered, you're justified, you're reconciled, do your thing it's under the blood and that's not true brethren. God forbid that you should sin. We have been given Christ as a spiritual weapon to resist sin so that sin that's in your carnal mind can be destroyed. You are to rise up in Christ and kill that sin in your mind before it kills you. God forbid, how shall we that are dead to sin live any longer therein. Now this is an imputed death brethren, Paul is saying from the moment Christ is conceived in you and starts to be formed in you, he says, reckon yourself dead. And if you look up that word reckon, it means impute, it means count yourself dead, it means act like your dead, think like you're dead, live like you're dead to sin, but you're not dead, because if you were indeed dead to sin you wouldn't have to count yourself dead to sin.

What he's saying is now that you have the mind of Christ, don't live out of your carnal mind, consider that part of your mind dead, don't use it, that's what he's saying. Verse 3, Know ye not that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death. Now this is interesting, because I looked that up, you know, this is like really like a light exhortation and I didn't really go through every word in the Interlinear, but God told me to look in the Interlinear and the Interlinear says Christ Jesus, the King James translators have reversed this, and they made it Jesus Christ, but the Interlinear says Christ Jesus. And you know I struggled with this verse, I didn't really understand how we could be baptized into Jesus Christ, and it's not Jesus Christ, it's Christ Jesus. Now let me clarify that. Jesus Christ is the resurrected glorified Jesus Christ which is in your heart, he's either the Holy Spirit or Christ is being formed in you, he is now the Spirit of Christ, he's your new unconscious mind, okay, but I didn't see how you could be baptized in him, Christ Jesus is the second generation of Christ and that is the Christ that's being formed in you.

And I could understand how you could be baptized in to Christ Jesus. What that means is take your carnal mind and dunk it under the water of the soul of Christ Jesus. Didn't we speak earlier this evening about the man Jesus of Nazareth who had total totally overshadowed and suppressed his carnal mind, that he totally tread his carnal mind under the feet of Christ in him. Well soul life brethren is typified by water. So to be baptized into Christ Jesus, it means take your carnal mind and put it down under the seat of the Christ mind in you and let your true nature, which is, not your true nature, but your true self which is spirit be totally under the authority of the Christ. Let your carnal mind and your true self, your human spirit be totally under the dominion of the Christ, that's what baptize means, it means full emersion into the mind of Christ.

That means paralyzing your carnal mind. Know ye not, now listen to what Paul was saying, he was saying no you shouldn't be in sin, if you got the carnal mind, that's not an excuse, if you got the Christ mind that's not an excuse to sin, don't you know that as many of you as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death, no no the fact that you've got the mind of Christ doesn't mean that you can go out and sin, because it's under the blood, don't you understand that when Christ was conceived in you and he started to be formed in you that you became into a spiritual condition where your carnal mind has to die like the carnal mind of the man Jesus had to die? Don't you understand? Paul is saying that to have Christ prevail in your mind, your carnal mind must die. That's what he's saying. They were making the same mistakes 2000 years ago as they're making today.

I know someone she says that, Oh it's under the blood, it's under the blood, it's alright don't worry about it, it's under the blood. I know it's not under the blood until you put it under the blood, don't spout these intellectual doctrines at me. Get your sin under the authority of Christ, it's an act of war, it's an assertion of your will in Christ, that is a spiritual warfare that will lay hold of your carnal mind and the sins therein and chain them up, laying hold of every imagination and baptize them in Christ and let me remind you that the Scriptural of baptism roots back to the Hebraic concept of washing of ritualistic washings. Every encounter with uncleanness, the Hebrew under the Mosaic covenant had to wash his hands, wash your clothes, wash your body, they were consistently and continuously involved in ritualistic washings which typified the spiritual washing of our sin filled heart with Christ. Baptism means full emersion.

Going back to the Mosaic law and the Levitical law, wash your clothed, wash your members, wash your mind with the spiritual life of Christ, you have to use it.

If you don't use it, to help yourself stop sinning, you are the unprofitable servant who put his talent under the ground and didn't get any increase, and you're going to lose what you've got, you're going to lose the Christ, you'll abort. Know ye not that so many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death brethren, spiritual baptism into Christ, means the death of your carnal mind, don't tell me that you are thinking in any measure with your carnal mind. You may be in the process of, but you're not baptized, because baptism into Christ is full stature, it's the complete and total overpowering of your carnal mind by Christ.

Remember I've taught you how to keep going back as far as you have to go to find out who the Scripture is talking about? Well verse 21 of Romans 5 is speaking about the Lord Jesus Christ, the glorified Lord Jesus Christ. Verse 3 says, know ye not that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death, meaning the death of the Lord Jesus Christ. Brethren you could not be baptized into Christ Jesus if you weren't baptized into the death of the Lord Jesus Christ. There is no Christ Jesus if the Lord Jesus Christ was not raised from the dead, okay. Let me review for you. The Lord Jesus Christ was raised from the dead, he became pure spirit, he pouring out of his spirit upon all flesh, and he gets inside of you, his name changes to the Holy Spirit and when he causes your human spirit to conceive Christ and Christ rises in full stature, he will baptize your carnal mind with his life. So don't you know that to be baptized into Christ Jesus, you're baptized into the same kind of death that the Lord Jesus Christ experienced.

Brethren you cannot be baptized in Christ unless your carnal mind dies. You see, we see this in the church today, it's being preached that Christ is to be raised from the dead, but it's not being preached that your carnal mind has to die. They're not preaching the judgment of your soul, on the contrary they're denying the judgment of your soul. So Paul is saying, brethren don't you know, that you cannot be baptized into Christ, which is also called the baptism of fire, it's full stature, you cannot experience it without the death of your carnal mind. Okay is everybody alright?

Verse 4, "Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death. Therefore we are buried with the Lord Jesus Christ by the baptism of Christ Jesus in us, unto the death of our carnal mind. Let me say it again. Therefore we, our carnal minds are buried unto death under the resurrected Christ that has been raised from the dead in us, in the same way that the carnal mind of the man Jesus of Nazareth was buried under the Christ which was raised from the dead in him. And let me remind you that we are talking here about an imputed death. Our carnal minds under this condition, the carnal mind of the man Jesus under this condition of being buried into death, because baptism by Christ is a death that paralyzes the carnal mind, he is not completely dead until he is slain in the third stage of resurrection, but we count him dead, because he is rendered powerless, is everybody okay. That like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the father in the man Jesus of Nazareth, even so, we also should walk in the newness of life, that as Christ was raised up, now remember Christ was the mind that was in Jesus of Nazareth, it was separate from him, as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the father, even so we in whom Christ has been conceived, should walk in the newness of the life of Christ that's been conceived in you, that's what Paul is saying, this is a false doctrine that now that you have Christ, everything is under the blood and you can do whatever you want, it's not true.

When Christ is conceived in you, reckon yourself dead to sin, and start walking in the newness of life. Everybody okay? Verse 5, For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, talking about the Lord Jesus Christ, if you have died like he died, brethren the Scripture is not talking about the death of this body, you do not have to be physically crucified, but your carnal mind must be crucified for you to stand up in full stature. Now let me remind you that the crucifixion of your carnal mind is the joining of her to the resurrected Christ in you. Christ's crucifixion is the joining the permanent joining of the mind of Christ to the carnal mind in you. And you cannot be raised from the dead until your carnal mind is slain. Now in so far as your human spirit being resurrected, that is not the death of your carnal mind, it's not the imparted death of your carnal mind, it's the imputed death of your carnal mind. It is the death of your carnal mind which comes by lack of use. You cannot stand up in full stature until your carnal mind becomes useless, powerless, inoperative, inactive, that's the imputed death, counted dead, don't use it, but the actual death of your carnal mind comes when the enmity in your flesh is slain during the crucifixion of Christ which is the glorification.

Is everybody okay? The crucifixion of your carnal mind yeah, that's the slaying of the enmity in the flesh, and that happens at the time of the glorification. So we have an imputed death of the carnal mind and an imparted death of the carnal mind, everybody okay?

Verse 5, "For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, if your carnal mind has died like Jesus of Nazareth's carnal mind died, talking about the imputed death, if your carnal mind is now inactive, because you are walking after the newness of the life of Christ in you, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection." Brethren if your carnal mind is dead, is inoperative, is inactive as the man Jesus of Nazareth was, you shall be resurrected from the dead, they're happening simultaneously, you can't have one without the other. You can't have the resurrection without the death of your carnal mind. Hallelujah.

Verse 6, "Knowing this then, that our old man, who is our old man? The carnal mind, is crucified. Now I had a note on that word with, just a minute let me find it. This word "with" seems to be a translation of the suffix attached to the word crucified. I couldn't find an explanation for it in any of my reference books, but I suggest to you that verse 6 should read as follows, the word "him" is not in there. Verse 6, "Knowing this that our old man is crucified to the body of sin, so that the body of sin might be destroyed, and that henceforth we should not serve sin." Knowing this that our old man, that our carnal mind is crucified to the body of sin. Okay did you understand what I said? The word "him" is not in the Greek, that word "with", there is no word "with" in the Greek, it's just a one letter suffix at the end of the word, I couldn't find out what it means, but I suggest to you that it should be translated "to", knowing this that the old man is crucified to, to whom? The King James translators put in the word "him", not clarifying who him is, and I'm going to suggest to you that the word "him", should be Christ Jesus. "Knowing this that our old man, our carnal mind is crucified to Christ Jesus, why? That the body of sin , which is the carnal mind might be destroyed. So here we have a Scripture indicating that the crucifixion of Christ is clearly not the death of Christ, but the death of the carnal mind.

Verse 6, "Knowing this, that our carnal mind is crucified with Christ, that the body of sin, now you see this gets confusing because first Paul says our old man, and then he says the body of sin, and we know that we've had a lot of teaching here that the Greek word translated body is not speaking about the physical body, but it's speaking about the soul, the soul that is mortal, the soul that is filled with sin. So knowing this that our old man is crucified with Christ, for the purpose that, the sin filled soul, or the wicked city known as Babylon might be destroyed. So here it is in parable form, I know I've been preaching it over these last messages that when Christ was crucified, Christ did not die, but the carnal mind died. Remember me preaching that? Christ was crucified, Christ does not die, but the carnal mind dies. Okay here's your Scripture on it, it's in verse 6, "Knowing this that our old man, that's our old personality is crucified with Christ, for the purpose that the body of sin might be destroyed. The crucifixion of Christ destroys the body of sin, and did not kill Christ, everybody okay? And let me clarify why Paul would say, our old man, at the beginning of verse 6, and the body of sin in the middle of verse 6. Brethren our old man is the complete personality, the body of sin is the carnal mind in that personality. Remember our personality can be either positive or negative, either good or evil. We are the man, we are the old man when our mind is carnal, and we are the new man when our mind is Christ. The key here is that before the glorification, the mind in anyone of us, or the mind in the whole living soul is separate from the personality. The personality is plastic, it is an expression of the mind which is in it, the personality or the man stands, whether he's good or whether he's evil, he exists, it's his mind and his nature that changes. Everybody okay.

Verse 7, "For he that is dead is freed from sin." For him whose carnal mind is dead is freed from sin, but this is a mystery brethren, if you don't have the mind of Christ and your soul dies, your body is going to die too. So for you to be dead and freed from sin, there is an inference here, it's not a reverse inference but it's a hidden inference that you must have Christ. If you didn't have Christ you wouldn't be free from sin, you would be dead. Everybody okay? You got to have a new mind brethren. Verse 8, "Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him." What that's saying is if we in fact died when Christ died at the fall, and we've already established that we died when he died, in Adam all die, in Christ all shall be made alive. Well if we died with him at the fall, when he's raised from the dead, we're going to be raised from the dead too. Okay this is the Scripture, only he who has descended from heaven can ascend unto heaven. If you didn't die with him at the fall brethren, you cannot be raised from the dead with him. So what's that saying is that your physical body did not die with him at the fall, neither did your soul die with him at the fall, brethren only your human spirit died with him at the fall, okay.

So you have to be willing to admit that you died with him at the fall, you have to be able to admit that you died and that you're fallen. You have to be able to believe that he died. That's what this is saying. Now if you in fact died with him, in his loins at the fall, we must believe that we shall also live with him, we too shall be raised from the dead. You know there's a whole element in the church that is preaching that there's no sin, and that the creation didn't fall, and that we didn't die, if you didn't fall brethren, then there's no resurrection, okay.

Verse 9, "Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more, death has no more dominion over him." And we went in to this in great depth in the last message. We know that if we died with him at the fall we're going to live with him again because he's already been raised from the dead in the man Jesus of Nazareth, and having been raised from the dead, he's going to die anymore because now he's an imparted Christ and he's stronger and that Christ in his maturity is stronger than the most mature manifestation of the carnal mind.

Verse 10, "But in that he died, he died unto sin once." And the whole church world tells you, well Jesus died on the cross once and he therefore can't die again, but if you look that up in the Greek, what it's saying, the Greek Interlinear says he died once for all, but as you, it's very tricky, but as you study it in the Greek, the Lord will have to give you your own witness, but the Lord witnessed to me that what he's saying there is that when Christ died at the fall, we all died with him.

And we've been talking about that, we all died with him, we were in his loins, and when he died, he died for everybody, and the Interlinear says, he died at once, he died at the same time for everybody. We all died in him. Pray about it, that's what God told me that it's saying. I'll say it again, the Interlinear says he died once for all. If you look up the Greek word that's translated "once" it can also be translated "at once, at the same time", so what it's saying is we all died in him at the same time, even though we weren't born yet, thousands of years ago, those of us who are living today, we died in the loins of Adam. For in that Christ died, he died unto sin, or he died into sin, that word unto, the Greek word translated "unto" it can also be translated "into", and what it's saying is, he died into sin. When he died, he became sin, when Christ died, he became the carnal mind, he died and he turned into sin. For in that Christ died, he died and became sin and we all died at the same time with him, but in that he liveth now that Christ is raised from the dead, he liveth into God. He's converting into God. Christ died, he converted into sin, and now that he liveth, now that he's raised from the dead, he's converting into the life of God, everybody okay, what a night! (Laughing). Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin. Now I talked about this a little further back, that word reckon, the Greek word translated reckon, it means count yourselves dead unto sin, it doesn't mean that you dead, it's an imputed death, as we talked about it earlier.

Therefore count yourselves dead indeed unto sin, act like your dead unto sin, live like you're dead unto sin. Paul says I know you're not, but don't use your carnal mind, don't use it, don't think with it, don't respond to it, hurt it, wound it, and kill it. Be alive but be alive unto God through Jesus our Lord. Now once again we find the King James translators reversing the order of the two words Jesus Christ, in the Greek it says Christ Jesus, our Lord brethren, the Lord of our carnal mind, and the Lord of our body is Christ Jesus, the one who has been raised from the dead in us. The God of Christ Jesus is our glorified Lord Jesus Christ. But Christ who has been raised from the dead in us, the one who is the son, he is our Lord. So therefore brethren count your carnal minds dead, or count, because your carnal minds are dead, count yourself having died unto sin, and you may recall the teaching that the death of sin or the death of death, because sin exists in this age of death, the death of death, the third death, more likely called and more often called in the Scripture the first resurrection, or the first stage of resurrection, therefore count yourselves to be dead unto sin, count yourself as partaking of the first resurrection and therefore be alive unto God through Christ Jesus, our Lord, and our new mind, without our new mind, without the son having been born in us, there is no resurrection from the dead, our soul shall be saved brethren when we bear the Christ child. When Christ in us is raised from the dead, he shall give life unto our soul, and that is the salvation of our soul, Christ must be raised from the dead, Hallelujah, and God bless you.

03/14/02rs


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