210 - Part 2
CREATION

The Following Message Has Been Transcribed For Clarity, Continuity Of Thought, And Punctuation By The LEM Transcribing & Editing Team.

 

We were in Genesis Thursday night, and He seems to be taking us deeper than we have been before, we have been in Genesis before, we have done these Scriptures before, and we are going to go over what we did Thursday night again in a little more depth, but I would like to start off by, well let me read the verse to you. We are in Genesis 1:1;

GENESIS 1:1-2

1. In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

2. And the earth was without form and void, and darkness was upon the face of the deep, and the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. KJV

We see in the beginning God created the heaven and the earth, and then as the Scriptures go on we find a description of how He did it, but what it does not say in Genesis 1:1 is how the beginning came to be. The Lord has shown us here that the scientist have a theory called the big bang theory, they will tell you that this world and all of the universes came into existence because there was a big bang in outer space, or there was a big bang, whatever they call it and these worlds appeared, and the Lord has shown us that this accurate.

The scientists, they cannot be all wrong, there has to be some validity in what they are finding out, and there was big bang, and that was how these worlds came into existence, the scientists do not have any suggestion as to what caused the big bang, but those of us who have been studying spiritual things have been told that the big bang occurred when the sun separated from the Father. We see in the Scripture it says;

GENESIS 1:1-2

1. In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. KJV

How did this happen, God is Spirit, He is eternal, He is invisible, He has no form or shape, he is invisible substance, and the way, the natural example that the Lord has given us of invisible substance is the invisible man. You may have seen that movie, if you have not, I will give you the description. He was a scientist, this man was a scientist, and he drank a potion that made him invisible, and he thought it was wonderful that one day he could be invisible and the next day he would be visible again, but he became trapped in his invisible condition. Every time he tried to communicate with his wife or people who knew him and loved him, they were becoming very frightened speaking to the air, hearing a voice come out of the air, so this invisible human being put on a jacket, wrapped bandages around his head, put a hat on his head, pants, shoes and socks, and sunglasses, and the people who were speaking to him could not recognize that the substance underneath the bandages was invisible.

There is such a thing as substance that can be invisible, and this is a great mystery, but we are told that it is this invisible substance that is forming the earth which is lying on top of it. Let me give you an example. If you take a glass and you fill it with water, the glass is forming the water. Water has no form or shape, it is unstable, the glass if forming it. This invisible substance is, it is like to be saying, I took this marker and I covered it with earth, the earth has no form of its own, it is that which lies underneath which has the substance. We have a world, we live in a world which at its core is spiritual invisible, and all that we see is that which is on the exterior.

There was the Spirit of God, He was all that there was, there was nothing else but Him, He was invisible, and He was eternal, He was infinite, He had no beginning, and He had no end, and He decided that He wanted to be seen. The way He decided to do it, was that He would a part of His own substance off and build a creation out of it, that He would cover Himself with.

The way the Father, the invisible God decided to be seen, was that He would break a piece of Himself off, and build a creation that would be visible that He would cover Himself with. The way this happened, to begin with He had to create something that could be seen, and our natural type is an atomic explosion. When you have an atomic explosion, there is something, there is a byproduct of that explosion, does anybody know what it is called? The byproduct of an atomic explosion, sometimes they call it, well it is all of these things, they call it acid rain or ash, atomic ash, atomic debris, that is all correct.

God was Spirit, and He just broke a piece of Himself off and propelled it away from Himself, and there was created a big vacuum or a whole between the invisible God and that which He shot away from Himself, the invisible God was Spirit, and that which He shot away from Himself was Spirit. Now we have two sources of Spirit facing one another, and a big hole was created and ashes. The ashes could be seen.

This is the creation of matter. Everything that this world is made out of, matter, is the byproduct of the separation of the son from the Father, it was a byproduct. The Spirit of God is a positive charge and the byproduct is negative. We have a creation here that is both positive and negative, good and evil. Good is positive and the evil is described as negative.

Let me give you another, I am going to do a lot of drawing tonight. So we find the Scripture saying, In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. The heaven and the earth has a beginning and it has an end. God has no beginning and He has no end, so I want to suggest to you that the creation that God made exists within God. God has, He has no limits, I am drawing Him to the end of the white board here because I do not know how to draw eternity for you, but God is infinite in all directions, so hanging in the midst of God, is something called time.

Time has a beginning and an end, and time exists in the midst of God. God is greater in all directions than anything that we could build or anything that has a beginning or an end, God has to be greater than that because God has no beginning and He has no end, He is infinite. Is everybody okay? I am going to take this off. We find the Scripture saying, In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth, in the beginning there was an explosion, God is likened unto His son, He is power, He is energy. Our natural example is our natural sun, there is constant explosions on the surface of the sun, constant gases and energies being emitted from it.

God wanted to reproduce Himself, He shot a piece of Himself across from Himself and He created a realm opposite of Him, both realms were spirit, one was the Father, and the other was the son. In the beginning God created heaven and earth, and the next thing we read is that the earth was without form and it was void. We do not really know what the earth is yet. How do we know what the earth is, we do not get a definition of the earth until verse 10, it says; and God called the dry land earth.

10. And God called the dry land earth...KJV

But in Genesis 1:2, it says;

2. And the earth was without form and void...KJV

I want to suggest to you that the next verses are going to teach us how God formed the earth that He defines as a dry land. This was the condition verse 2 is the condition after the explosion.

2. And the earth was without form and void...KJV

The word void means empty, and the earth was without form and it was empty. I want to suggest to you that what that means is that the earth began with the fallout, because earth we know, earth has substance. You can see it, it is visible, it was the fallout of the explosion, it had no form, that means it was just hanging all over there, scattered anywhere and everywhere. That is what the earth looked like, it was in the form of dust, and I want to suggest to you that the reason the Scripture says it was empty, is that it was God's intention to form this dust into the atoms which are the basic building blocks of creation. If you know anything, we do get into science here, but it is very basic, do not let it threaten you if you are not familiar with this, if you have ever seen an atom, it has a nucleus, and it has orbits going around it. That is the basic building block of the universe, everything in this world, if you break it down to its smallest indivisible particle, that is the form that it is in, it is in the form of an atom.

This earth, it was still in the form of dust, and it had not, each particle of dust had not yet been filled with the center. Each particle of dust if you put it under a microscope, would look like an atom, and this particle of dust, dust was available but that which was in the center was not there. The earth was not formed, it was not in the form of an atom yet, and it was empty. The next verse is, would someone read it to me please, what is the next verse?

2. And the earth was without form and void, and the darkness was upon the face of the deep...KJV

what does that mean? The words keep changing. Let us get some definitions here. I want to suggest to you that the darkness is the condition of that dust, is not earth dark, you cannot see through dust, you cannot see through it. Now remember what we are talking about is the formation of the earth and we are starting out with darkness. Let me say it again, I do not know if I am making this clear. There is a literary principle in the Bible, God makes a statement and then He goes ahead and He proves it.

For example, He might say, And God created the chair, and the chair was made out of metal, and plastic and screws and nuts, He states the whole thing first and then He goes into detail. The Scripture is saying, And God created the heaven and earth, and the earth was in the form of dust, it had no form, and it was empty, it did not have anything of God inside of it, and darkness was upon the face of the deep. What is He talking about, what is the deep?

I mentioned to you that there was a big hole created, did you ever hear of a black hole? We have black holes in space, we have blue holes which I just found out about in the ocean, and we have quicksand and craters opening up in the earth, God is speaking to us through everything, and what they are, it is just a big hole either in space or in the ocean, or in the earth, it just opens up, it seems to have no bottom.

Why did these things occur in nature? Because they are a type of what happened at the beginning of time. The word, the Hebrew word that is translated deep, if you look it up in the Hebrew, it can also be translated abyss or pit, I am going to say to you black hole that happened in space, there was a black hole created, and there was a top of it, you will have to forgive my drawing, I am not an art major, this was the dust out here, dust was flying everywhere, and after that explosion, we had two things, we had the spirit that shot away from the Father, and we had fallout, or dust. The spirit that shot away into the Father, took a different name.

It is just like if a woman has a baby, when that baby departs from her, she gives that baby another name, the son shot away from the Father, and actually, what it did was set up a world opposite of the Father. If you are standing here with me and you shoot away from me, you are now standing opposite of me. When we are talking about the substance of the Father we call it spirit, when we are talking about the substance of the son who is now standing opposite the Father, we give him another name, it is called soul.

In the Scripture, it is a scriptural principle when you take one substance, and you do something to it, you put it in another place, or you change it in some way, its name changes. I just got back from Africa, I saw that principle right there, they have a grain, it is called eba, I may have the wrong name, but after they cook it, the name changes, it is just like saying you have flour, and after you cook it, you have bread, the name changes. Spirit, after it shoots away from the Father, it has a new name, it is called soul.

Now this whole Bible is a parable, we are talking about symbols tonight, the symbols, the spirit is gas, and the symbols for soul is water. When the Father, when the son shot away from the Father, we have three things, the Spirit of the Father, the soul of the son and the fallout, which is dust or darkness.

We find this vacuum formed, this black hole, and it is formed, well let me put to you this way, what is in the hole, does anybody know what is in the hole? The water is in the hole, and we are told that the earth had no form, but I want to suggest to you that the water had a form. The water had a form and the earth was lying over it, and there was a top of the hole, a surface. The Scripture says, and darkness was upon the face or the surface of the deep, or the pit, or the black hole. This darkness of the dust was lying all over it. That is what happened after the explosion.

2. ...and the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. KJV

I am going to have to ask someone to help me read these Scriptures. Start from the top of verse 2 please;

2. And the earth was without form and void, and the darkness was upon the face of the deep, and the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the earth. KJV

Now it says the darkness was upon the face of the deep, the deep is the pit, but the Spirit of God moved on the face of the waters. I want to tell you that the Spirit of God was not interacting with this dust, but the Spirit of God was interacting with the water that was in the dust, or water that was in the pit. I will start this again.

We have a black hole here, this is the pit, now I am going to draw this as a square, and out here is the realm of eternity, and in the realm of eternity is the Spirit of God. The water in the pit, and this is the dust out here. It says the Spirit of God moved, is that the word moved on the face of the waters? Yes, okay. Now this is all water in the pit, but the face of the water means the surface of the water. This is the face of the water up here, and the Spirit of God contacted the water. The Father contacted the son that was in the pit. This is the beginning of the creation.

At the beginning we are told that this son that had just been shot out, he did not really know that he was different from the pit or the fallout, he did not know, but the Father contacted him and moved gently over him and the next thing that happens;

3. And God said, Let there be light...KJV

So God quickened the substance which was the son, and we see a big change coming. We still have the pit here, we have our black hole, but we see something happen to the water, and light started to shoot forth from the water, and this is all darkness out here, so we see the light touching the darkness, this is a light ray. The Spirit of the Father stimulated the spirit of the son and He shot out rays of light and these rays of light are touching the dust, and I want to suggest to you that they are imparting the life giving strength unto this dead dust. That is what is happening.

It is just like saying, it says in another place in the Scripture, God formed the man and he was just lying there, and God breathed the breath of life into him and every cell of his body became invigorated or quickened. That is what we are talking about. This darkness which was in the fallout in the dust is receiving the life or is being invigorated by the life of the son. This is the beginning of the creation.

3....and God saw the light that it was good...KJV

Let me make this point, I mentioned it on Thursday night, but this word God, this word God, it is speaking about the God that is in the pit, I cannot re-teach the whole thing, we have had two messages on it already, but the Spirit of God is the Father, and the God, when we did the study in the original language, we found out that this word God, the Spirit of God is Jehovah, but the word God is Elohim, He is the God that is in humanity, He is the saviour, Jesus Christ that is inside of the heart. God the Father still remains the same, just like when a natural woman has a son or when a man has a son, the woman gives birth to the child, the man has not lost anything, and the woman has not lost anything, but there is an offspring.

God has produced a son and now God is in the creation, but the Father God is still outside of the creation. We are told, read me verse 3 please;

3. And God said, Let there be light, and there was light.

4. And God saw the light that it was good, and God divided the light from the darkness. KJV

At this point, not the Spirit of God, but the God who was in the soul realm now, the God who is typified by the water in the pit, He now knew that He was separate from the darkness. The Spirit of God joined with Him, and gave Him intelligence and gave him strength and gave him life and he knew that he was spirit and that the darkness had no life outside of him. He knew the difference. One of the major messages that we are preaching in this ministry is that in this hour, now that it is possible for God to be growing inside of our own heart, He is challenging us to recognize the difference between thoughts of death and thoughts of life, and thoughts of death come from our carnal mind and thoughts that bring life, come from the mind of God within us.

I want to suggest to you that in this hour, a very similar experience that I just described is happening to men everywhere upon the earth. Brethren if you have not been quickened by the Lord Jesus Christ, the darkness is upon the face of your deep. You have a human spirit that is buried deep inside of you, and it is covered over by darkness, the darkness of your soul, and the darkness of your body, and when the Spirit of God in another man comes to you and if you hear preaching like this what is happening to you is that the Spirit of the Father, the Spirit of God is coming to you and saying unto you, calling unto your human spirit, that spirit that is buried deep in the pit of your own personal soul, the Spirit of God is saying to you, Let there be light.

Lord willing, the human spirit in you which is buried deep in your soul, is going to respond, it is going to hear the voice of the Father. There is a Scripture in the gospel of John which says, And in that day the dead will hear the voice of God and those who hear shall live. The dead human spirit in men today are hearing the voice of God through a preacher saying to them, in different words of course, but spiritually saying to them, Let there be light, God is speaking to this dead creation because the Scriptural definition of death is separation from God. Everybody that has not received the spiritual life of the son, well actually we are all still dead, some of us are in the process of being raised from the dead, but the whole creation is dead, the whole creation is dead, so the Spirit of God is calling to this whole creation right now, He is calling to the human spirit that is dead, that is buried inside of every man, and He is saying, Let there be light, and some of them, the Scripture says, Those that hear will live again, those human spirits that hear and respond to the Father by giving off light. Well how do you give off light? What it means is that there is a response inside of your heart, that is what it means, you shall live again. This is what is happening in this hour.

It says here, that, And God saw the light, this is Elohim, that is God in man, he saw the light and he saw that the light was good, and it does not say it here, but he saw that darkness was not good, and he was able to tell the difference between the darkness and the light. We have a whole world full of people including people in the church today that cannot tell the difference ever between the darkness and the light, or sometimes they cannot tell the difference between the darkness and the light, why?

Because only when you have the light inside of you can you recognize the light inside of someone else. Sometimes the light inside of you is more mature than other times. Sometimes you can tell sometimes, and other people can never tell the difference between a thought or a word or a behavior that comes from the mind of God which is light or a thought or a word or a behavior which comes from the carnal mind which is darkness. We cannot tell the difference until the Spirit of God outside of us contacts the Spirit of God inside of us, quickens Him and He starts to give off rays of light.

It is called a quickening, but we are still dead until the mind of God is fully born in us. Some of us are in the process of being raised from the dead, others have not yet heard the voice of the son of God. Verse 5;

5. And God called the light day, and the darkness He called night, and the evening and the morning were the first day. KJV

I am going to try to keep this from getting too complicated here. Let us go on to verse 6;

6. And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. KJV

Firmament, the word firmament means a spreading out, and the indication in the Hebrew is that the dust of the earth was spread out to cover the invisible water. We have the exact opposite in the world today, we have a seabed which is the frame and it is filled with water. We are talking about spiritual things here, and we see that the dust, I talked about this a little earlier, was spread over the invisible substance, that is what this firmament is, and I will put it on the board for you, so that you can understand it better.

This is what happened, we have a black hole, and we have all of the dust out here, and we see the son of God shedding His light abroad, and He is spuing His light beyond the dust. We see for all intents and purposes a ring being formed, and we see water inside of the pit, this is the firmament, and what is the firmament? The firmament is the dust that is being saturated by this water. It starts out as water in the pit, it is still water when it covers the dust here, and when it get out past the dust, it becomes light. What do we have here. We have water on the inside, saturated dust or mud around it, and then another layer of water. The Scripture says water. You can call it water or you can call it light. This is verse 6;

6. And God said, Let there be a firmament, (let there be a separation of the waters)...KJV

What we see happening here is that God is forming an atom of the whole creation. This is the beginning of it. I am going to take this off of the board, and I am going to show it to you in a circular form which will look more like an atom. This is what it looks like, this is like you are looking from the top looking down, like if you were in an airplane flying over the sea and there was a blue hole in the sea, this is what it is going to look like. This is the top of the pit, this is the face of the deep, there is water in there, surrounding it is the dust that is saturated with the water that was spued out, and we see from the midst of the deep rays of light shooting forth. When it gets out here past the earth, it becomes light. We see the Spirit of God has contacted the son, the son has shot off the rays of his life, it has saturated the dead dust with water quickening it, and it has penetrated beyond the darkness of the earth creating light outside of Himself.

What is happening here is that God is building a creation, the mind of a man, that is what He is building. I know that a lot of people that read this Bible, they say that God is building the world as we see it today, but I want to suggest to you that everything that we see today is an image, it is an image, it is a reflection of the true reality which is in the realm of the spirit. The realm of the spirit is invisible, we cannot see it.

The mind, there is a superior mind in the universe that has the ability to project an image of itself, a type of it is the rainbow. If you see a rainbow in the sky, what has happened is the gases in the universe have passed through the water in the atmosphere, and created an image. That is what we are, well I mean that is what you see. We are not what we look like, we are not what you see, we are spirit. We are spirit, and we have a soul and this exterior that you see, it is just an illusion, that is all that it is, it is not the real us. The problem is that it is so much a part of us that if we get damaged we feel pain, so we think that we are this body, but we are not this body, we are the spiritual person that we are. We are that human spirit that the Spirit of God is going out to and saying, Let there be light, are you in there, can you hear me, I am coming to raise you from the dead. That dead human spirit that is in you, that is your true identity

There was a tragedy back at he beginning of time. We call it the fall, and the creation ceased to live out of their spirit, and began to live out of the flesh, and that is what we are today, we are flesh men, living out of the intelligence and the passions and the lusts of that dust. When the light of God passed through the firmament, invigorating the dust, it was revealed in another place that there was an intelligence in the dust, and he became alive when the life of God passed through him, and that is what we are living out of in this hour, the intelligence that is in the firmament. The Scripture calls it darkness.

We are living out of darkness, and God is coming to everyone that is hearing this message, and He is going to right past your darkness, He is going right past your darkness and He is calling to that human spirit that is deep within you, and He is saying, Arise, arise, and let your light be seen, and let it shine out, arise and meet me and I am going to give you dominion over the intelligence in the firmament, that has brought you into servitude and bondage.

We are joined to the dust in our minds, and he has made slaves out of us, the Scripture teaches that the intelligence in the dust has utterly subjugated us, has enslaved us for what purpose? Because he wants the use of our minds and of our bodies and he has so joined us to him in our minds that we think that the self destructive thoughts that we have are our thoughts, but they are not our thoughts, they are his thoughts, and he uses our bodies and he uses our mind and the result is that he is killing us.

The Scripture says that the relationship between man and this spiritual tyrant who possesses us is that of a pimp to a harlot, that is in the Bible, I did not say it, that is what the Bible says. We are the harlot of that spiritual mind that is using us, using our bodies in a way that is destroying it, if you are drinking yourself to death, if you are shooting drugs up into your body, if you are doing any form of self destructive behavior towards your body, you must ask yourself why you are doing it.

If you are doing any form of self destructive thinking with your mind, why are you doing it? It is because your mind is joined to a spiritual pimp that is using you for his own purposes and the Scripture says we get paid for his hire. The pay is death. Not only is he using us to his benefit, and to our destruction, but when he pays us, we die. There is nothing in it for us at all.

The problem is that we are used to this life, to this way of thinking, and to this body, that we believe that it is us, and when the Spirit of God comes and cries out to us and says, Arise oh ye that are sleeping in the dust of the earth, arise unto righteousness and return unto the Spirit of God, most of us run in fear or refuse to come for whatever reason. God is a faithful God and He has every intention of delivering this entire creation, a man at a time out from our bondage and slavery to this spiritual pimp. That is what he is. This is our condition. Verse 7;

7. And God made the firmament and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament, and it was so.

8. And God called the firmament heaven, and the evening and the morning were the second day. KJV

He called the whole thing heaven, God gave it a name, this whole thing with the water on the inside and the mud on the outside and then the light or the water that was outside of it, He called the whole thing heaven, and you will find in another, well actually in the Hebrew the word is heavens, plural, heavens plural, and that phrase, and the evening and the morning was the same day, if you look it up in the Hebrew what it is really saying is that, and the darkness and the light were both part of the one creation called the heavens. It was darkness and it was light, evening, it is not fully dark yet, but it is not light. Evening is the time between sunset and deep twilight. It is a time that is neither dark nor light, and morning is speaking about the breaking of the day, it is the time when it is fully dark when those rays of light start coming in.

When the Scripture says, And the evening and the morning were the first day, what it means is that this creation was a mixture, there was a mixture of darkness and light, and the two we are told are married together, the darkness is married to the light and God has said to the light, rule in the darkness.

But we had a tragedy at the beginning of time, and the darkness is ruling over the light and that is why we are in the condition that we are in, we die. I am going do one more, I am going to take one more step in this and then I am just going to take questions, because it is very deep. Verse 9;

9. And God said, Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear and it was so. KJV

This is still looking at it as if you were flying over it with an airplane, this is the surface of the pit, there is water in it. This is the firmament. There is water in the firmament. Remember the water shot forth from the center all of the way out, and the dust is saturated with water. Out here, is the light rays, and the whole thing is called heaven, and the Scripture says, Let the waters that are under the heavens be drawn into one place, and I want to suggest to you that the water that is saturating if not flooding this firmament, I am not really sure but it could easily be in a condition likened to the ocean.

If you look at the ocean, the ocean bed is all matted down, it has become mud, there is so much water on it, that the water, all you see is the water and all of the dust has gone to the bottom. Now God says, Let all of the water that is hanging over or saturating this dust, let it go back, let it go back. It is like a river that empties out in to the ocean, let it go back into the pit, let all of the water be gathered, and what is the exact phrase?

9. And God said, Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear and it was so. KJV

Let the waters under the heaven, that means the waters that is in the firmament, and the water that is in the pit, let it be gathered unto one place, I want to suggest to you that it is going to be gathered back into the pit, which is the original place of water. What we see is the water returning to one place, but the benefits that came to the dust from being saturated with the water remain with it, all of the minerals that were in the water, all of the life has now invigorated the dust.

It would be as if I were to flood this carpet, I could come in with a water suction machine and suck all of the water out of it, but the carpet is still wet, there is some measure of that moisture that is in fiber of the carpet that you cannot get out. The whole purpose of this, was that the water of the son's life invigorated the dust, then God called back the water and now He says, Let the dry land appear. The water is pulled back and we now see that with the water drained away, this is called the earth. The dust before it was invigorated was called darkness, the dust particles was darkness, but after the dust particles were saturated with the life of the son, they become earth. We are told, what is the last phrase of that? And the let the dry land appear and it was so.

10. And God called the dry land earth, and the gathering together of the waters called He seas, and God saw that it was good. KJV

We see that we have a formation of the atom of the creation, that which is in center, all of the water is in the center, and we see it is called the seas, and I want to suggest to you when the water came back after saturating the earth, that it brought particles of earth with it, it did not come back pure, it brought back particles of earth with it. We see the water all in one place, but its name changed, because it is not the same water that went out, it is a different water that came back, it has some particles of earth in it, so we see the seas is primarily water with some earth or primarily light with some darkness, and we see that the firmament is primary darkness with some light, and the whole creation, and the evening and the morning was being made, darkness and light becoming one, united together in one area, the light predominating, and in the other area, the darkness predominating, but life now having been given to the entire creation. I do not think I am going to go any further tonight, does anybody have any questions on anything so far, if not I am just going to go with what the Lord gives me.

COMMENT: Is this what is meant by deep calleth unto deep.

PASTOR VITALE: I never really studied that out, but I would suspect that what it means now, if the deep is the place where the spirit is, what it means is, that deep is the pit, that is the soul, soul calls unto soul, but I never studied that Scripture, I would expect that is what it means.

COMMENT: Creation is still spiritual, am I right?

PASTOR VITALE: Still spiritual, yes. I think I started to touch on that. The Bible is a parable, it is written so that it can be taken on many levels, by wherever you are able to understand, God wants you to be reading the Bible and to understand on whatever level you can understand. If you have young children reading the Bible, and you want to teach them that God created the sky that is out there, you can teach them that, because as far as God is concerned, He wants this word inside of your head, so that when the time comes that the Spirit of God comes to you and calls to you and says, Are you in there, at least He has His word inside of you to respond to Him.

Any level that you can believe this Bible on, you believe it. But we have a lot of people out there today who are born with a certain spiritual development or they have it at a very young age, and they have difficulty believing sometimes the childish understanding of the Scripture, so for them God says if you have a spiritually developed mind, and you can understand these deep spiritual truths, come, and drink of the fountain.

I am sure that He has, God has spiritual truth that would blow my mind, that I could not even comprehend. You just go deeper and deeper and deeper and as you go deeper your mind joins more and more with God, and the more that your mind joins with God, eventually as your mind continues to join with God, eventually you come to a point the Scripture says, where you are no longer that person that you were born as, but you become so much one with God in your mind, God joins with you in your mind.

A man and a wife join in their soul, we are told, and also in your flesh, but God joins with your mind. We are told when you join with God to such a point, that you are literally swallowed up by Him that you cease to be, that you cease to be the person that you were born as, and you become Him, you are swallowed up into Him. We are told that Enoch walked with God and Enoch was not.

Some people in the church tell you that he got raptured, but I do not believe he got raptured, and raptured means that his body was taken off of this earth, I do not believe that, I have studied it in the Hebrew, and I believe that what happened was that he communed with God in his mind to such a measure that his carnal mind ceased to exist. Our human identity that we are born with is our carnal identity. Is that not what happened to Jesus. Of course Jesus' body was crucified, but His mind became so much one with God, that, that personality Jesus of Nazareth ceased to exist.

He, when He was raised from the dead, He was not raised from the dead as Jesus of Nazareth, He was raised from the dead as a glorified Spirit who could take on any identity that He wanted. He appeared after His death as Jesus of Nazareth, He appeared as a stranger on the road to Emmaus, He appeared as another unrecognizable man cooking fish, John was the only who recognized Him. He appeared as a ball of light to Paul.

The man Jesus of Nazareth joined with God in His mind to such a degree that His identity as Jesus of Nazareth ceased to exist, and I believe that, that is what happened to Enoch. I do not know what his body looked like, but I am telling you I am waiting for that experience. I just want my carnal mind to cease to exist.

Whatever affect it has on my body, let it have, but all torment is in your mind, all torment is in your mind! Of course you can be tormented in your body, but it starts in your mind. Hell is in your mind, let me tell you. There is torment in your mind and in your emotions. I cannot wait for this carnal mind to be swallowed up by Christ, there is no torment in Christ. When your mind looks like that, your mind is heaven, that is a diagram of a mind which is heaven. Why is it heaven? Because the Spirit of God is dominating the darkness of the earth.

We are a creation that is both darkness and light, and when the light is controlling if you will, or dominating the darkness, we are in heaven, but something went wrong, and the darkness is now controlling and dominating the light, and we are in hell. There are various degrees of hell, some people have more torment than others. It is in the mind, and then it vibrates out from your mind and manifests in your life. The way you think is heaven or hell, and the way you think creates an existence for you that is an expression of your mind.

If you are an extremely negative person, critical, filled with hate, bitterness, a blasphemer, it must affect your body, and if not yours, your son, if not your son, your grandson, because the sins of the fathers are visited upon the children unto the third and fourth generation, tormented in the body, and I have been tormented in my body, I know what I am talking about.

Torment of the body is a manifestation, an expression of torment in the mind. Get your mind straightened out by the power of God, and your body will be straightened out. You know people in the world know this, there are people in the world who do not know Jesus who know that if they can get their mind thinking positive, it can heal their body, it is called holistic healing. I know one woman personally, who had a severe thyroid problem, I think it was hyper, it was going to fast, I may have it backwards, but it was dangerous, it could have ended up in a stroke, and this woman had been into witchcraft for years, and she just refused that thing, and she was healed, and she did not even know the Lord, she got healed. There is healing in witchcraft power.

She just would not, she had a very strong mind, and she had a strong mind plus that inherited, you have to be born with this witchcraft power, it is not likely in my opinion that an individual could develop a witchcraft power to that measure that I just described in one lifetime. It has to be inherited, you have to be born with it, and then you have to develop it in this lifetime.

COMMENT: Is that another way of the sins of the father being visited? Is the witchcraft being passed down from generation to generation.

PASTOR VITALE: Witchcraft is sin and yes it is passed down. When a child is born, see noone has any problem believing that, that child inherits the physical characteristics of the parent, frequently the child looks like the parent, they have the same coloring, they have the same features. Sometimes you look at someone and you say, You look just like your father. Someone just said that tonight, that my daughter looks just like me.

Sometimes we have a problem believing that our personality is carried along the family line. Our body, our physical characteristics are carried along the family line, our personality, did you ever hear anyone say, You are just like your father? Usually it is in a negative way. Your father was a womanizer, you are a womanizer, your father was a drunk, you are a drunk, and sometimes we emphasize it on the children because when they are two years old, we will look at that little boy and will say, Your father was a drunk and you are going to be a drunk too. Guess what? The kid grows up and he is a what? He is a drunk.

COMMENT: People that receive healing by witchcraft, they still receive a curse do they not? They are not blessed.

PASTOR VITALE: No they are not blessed, because God has pronounced judgment on the exercise of illegal spiritual power, so they might get healed, their body might get healed at that moment, but more trouble is coming your way. Witchcraft power can cast out demons also, but the demons come back. When your demons are cast out by the power of God, Lord willing, they are not going to come back.

Hindus cast out demons. All kinds of Santeria casts out demons, you know all kinds of witchcraft power casts out demons.

COMMENT: I think it is interesting that people should know that not all healing comes from God, all miracles are not from God.

PASTOR VITALE: Yeah, no they are not.

COMMENT: You said that in verse 2 where the earth is without form and void, time existed then though right?

PASTOR VITALE: Time existed from the beginning, so the earth is within the realm of time, earth is not infinite, earth is always within the realm of time.

COMMENT: Because you said in the beginning, so that is in the beginning of time, the earth was without form and void, but time existed when there was just, it was just without form.

PASTOR VITALE: At the beginning of time, all we had was the particles, and I did not get to it tonight, but I think I may have touched on it, eventually, each particle would be, to be honest with you, I did have it worked up when that happened but I do not know whether we got to it or not.

COMMENT: Do you know how long the period was when there was no form or void?

PASTOR VITALE: No, but I really doubt that it was just a thousand years, we have a lot of Christians that found the Scripture that says, One day with the Lord is as a thousand years to man, so they assume that each one of these days is just a thousand years and that the earth is only six thousand years old, and unfortunately, we have a lot of well meaning Christians that will fight you, argue with you, down to tooth and nail, to swear that this creation is only 6,000 years old, but I personally think that is very naive to think that each day was limited to a thousand years, it could have been thousands of years.

The word day means time period, time period. I am convinced that the day will come that scientific knowledge is going to jive with what we find in the Scripture, we are going to become more sophisticated in the Scriptures, the scientific knowledge is going to be touched by the Spirit of God and we are going to find out that there is a reconciliation between scientific knowledge and the Scripture, and the two must line up, they have to line up.

We have to make corrections on both sides, and then they have to line up. What I started to say, I do not think I finished my thought. My point is that each one of those particles of dust eventually became infused with a drop of that light of the life of God, and the life, that drop of God's life, became the nucleus, the center of the atom, and that point, the dust or the earth, is that the word? Earth, became filled, became filled with the life of God. Each particle of dust became filled with the life of God and that it became an atom and the dust was surrounding the nucleus of God's life and the whole creation became filled, where we see the word seas, the whole creation at its center became filled with the life of God.

Our natural example, and we talked about this Thursday night, our natural example is the human body, which has blood flowing through its veins, through the veins of the human being and yet every cell of the body, if you pricked your skin, there is blood in every cell of your body. We see a creation whose core is spirit, the very center core typified by the water in the pit, is spirit, and yet that spirit is also flowing through the entire spiritual being in that every drop of dust of our soul and our body also has the life of God in it.

The life of God is completely infused throughout the entire creation.

COMMENT: The water in the pit is the son of God?

PASTOR VITALE: The water in the pit is the son, but I did not say the glorified son.

COMMENT: He was the life that had separated off from God and He is the water that is in the pit.

PASTOR VITALE: Yes, yes, God is Spirit, and when the son shot off from Him, He stood opposite Him and He gets another name, that is soul, that is what soul is, soul is opposite of spirit.

COMMENT: Then water and soul is the same?

PASTOR VITALE: Yes, Jesus said that He is going to be a fountain of living waters coming up from under the earth of our soul, yes. The Spirit of God, now we have been talking about this for a while, that there is one spirit with many administrations, and every time the Spirit of God has a different function, He will have a different name, or if He is in a different place, He will have a different name, well the Spirit of God that is underneath the earth is called water, and the Spirit of God that is underneath the earth but is strewing itself out from that position underneath the earth, when it gets past the earth becomes light, but the Spirit of God that is in eternity is Jehovah, or the Spirit of God Himself, the Father. Each function gives Him a different name.

COMMENT: I am thinking of the Scripture where Jesus said, Out of your belly shall flow rivers of living waters.

PASTOR VITALE: Living waters, so we have water in our pit right now, but it is muddy water, muddy water, it is dirty water. The water, see where the seas are, I said that there are some particles of the earth in it because it was called back from the firmament, but what has happened is that there is more mud, there is more dirt in our water right now than there is water, we got dirty, muddy water, and we have got to get cleaned up.

The way we are getting cleaned up, is that our water is getting what? Getting boiled, it is getting boiled, God is going to separate us from the mud, we are going to, and the dry land is going to appear.

COMMENT: What is the purpose of the dry land appearing?

PASTOR VITALE: The purpose of the dry land appearing is that the creation is both spirit and soul. Now this is the significance, when the dust is saturated in the water, it gives the dust spiritual power, why? Because the water is that life of God. When the dust is dissolved let us say, in the water, it gives spiritual power to the dust. That is how Satan has all of his spiritual power right now.

You may recall I taught it with a few different words, let me try and link it up for you. Back during the summertime we were talking about being brought forth from seed, and we were saying that Satan had to link up with Eve, the human spirit, to get the spiritual power that was in her, or he could have never done, he could have never become the great guy that he has become, he is a powerful entity right now, through his carnal mind.

He can only do it because he succeeded in seducing God's wife, and he got his spiritual authority dissolved in the spiritual water of God's wife. Are you following me?

COMMENT: You said that Eve was the crystals and that Satan is the water.

PASTOR VITALE: No.

COMMENT: Did you not say that the water is the unconscious mind?

PASTOR VITALE: The water is the unconscious mind, I did say Eve was the crystals, but she has spiritual authority, she has spiritual authority. I see what you are saying, I do not know I will have to think about that.

COMMENT: Does the Bible tell us that Eve has this spiritual...

PASTOR VITALE: She had spiritual authority because she is made out of God's life but what is coming to me right now is that God describes different aspects of the creation differently, for different purposes, one example being the winepress in the lake of fire, being the same judgment. The judgment that is coming upon all men, is called the winepress in one Scripture because it is talking about the bringing forth of the wine of God's life, and in another Scripture it is typified by the lake of fire because it is talking about the preservative aspect of the fire of God's life over the whole creation. It is probably something like that. You understand what I am saying, that yes, Satan had to join with Eve's life to get her spiritual authority to be what he is today.

At the moment I will have to think about what you said, but I am sure that, that is the only difference between her being crystals and her being water, we are talking about different functions. Does that make any sense to you? Yeah, okay. I was saying the water is muddy.

COMMENT: The human spirit is the dead Christ.

PASTOR VITALE: The human spirit is the dead Christ, and even though she is dead, there is spiritual authority, there is potential to be raised from the dead in her. Just let me finish this thought, so the water in the pit is muddy, the earth from the sides of the pit has contaminated the water. That water has to be evaporated, we found Scriptures that say that Jesus is boiling our soul as a sin offering and that water has to get boiled off.

Let me just put it on the message what Xxxx is talking about, she is talking about me giving the type of the fallen living soul as the sea, and we had, we found Scriptures that indicated that God was going to boil, Jesus is boiling the sea water, and therefore separating the salt from the water, Eve typifying the life of God that is dissolved in the water of Satan's life, and then as soon as she becomes crystals, salt crystals, separated from the water, she is going to be dissolved in the life of Christ. That is what Xxxx is talking about, and now I just said, that the water in the pit is muddy, and when the water is boiled off, the earth is going to be separated out.

It sounds like a contradiction, but it is talking, we are using different symbols to make different points. If I can figure it out by the time I produce this message, I will put the explanation on here, right now it is not coming to me, I have to think about it.

COMMENT: I know what I was going to say, that the dead human spirit, the dead Christ and the human spirit is the same thing, the human spirit still has power to give life even though it is dead, it is Christ, it is still Christ.

PASTOR VITALE: She has power to give existence, not life, but existence. We are existing, but we are dead.

COMMENT: But it is in a death realm right?

PASTOR VITALE: Yes, she has power to give existence.

COMMENT: But is it still water, the human spirit?

PASTOR VITALE: Is the human spirit still water?

COMMENT: Because it was Christ in the beginning when it became the human spirit, was it still water?

PASTOR VITALE: No, she is a dry bone, the water is gone, she is a dry bone

COMMENT: What was the purpose of the dry land appearing if the water going through the firmament right, and it is making it invigorated, why did he not just leave it that way?

PASTOR VITALE: Why did He not just leave it that way?

COMMENT: Yeah, I do not understand why He caused the dry land to appear because the dry land means the life of the water of the son is gone out of it.

PASTOR VITALE: Oh, I see what you are saying, yeah, okay, well the land, the whole point is, the whole point of that is, that God took spiritual authority away from the land, because the dust was saturated in the water which means they was spiritual authority there. God did not want the dust to have spiritual authority, He just wanted to be invigorated to the point that we would liken it to fertile soil, and the very next Scripture that I decided not to go on with says, and the earth brought forth herbs, grass, and fruit trees. You might say that the life of God flowing through the dust was like fertilizer being added to the dust so that the ground would become fertile and could bring forth the life of God.

COMMENT: You said God is speaking to the dead spirit of man and saying, Let there be light to the human spirit right?

PASTOR VITALE: Did I say that? That is not exactly accurate, okay, the Scripture says that the Spirit of God, what is the exact word, it moved upon the water, is that what it says, moved upon the face of the deep, or moved upon the face of the water, okay the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters, the Hebrew word moved, it means gently hovered, so it is the Spirit of God hovered over the water of the soul realm and stimulated the water in the soul realm to, when you read it in the Hebrew, the word is to throw off light. The Spirit of God stimulated the son, stimulated the soul life to throw off light, to arise from underneath that darkness and do his thing.

COMMENT: And you said that is what He is doing to us today?

PASTOR VITALE: That is what He is doing to us today, and also I thought you might find it interesting, a Scripture was quickened to me when I was doing this, this morning, that the Spirit of God troubled the waters, He troubled the waters, we have a Scripture like that in the New Testament where an angel comes down and troubles the waters. We see the Spirit of God troubling the waters, stirring up the spirit. That is what is happening today, you see, this I believe is the Spirit of Christ in me, preaching okay, but when it hits your heart, when it enters in to your mind it becomes the Holy Spirit, to you.

In my heart it is the Spirit of Christ, but when it gets to you, it becomes the Holy Spirit, and it is the Spirit of God called troubling your waters, troubling stirring up the spirit in you saying, stimulating your human spirit to say, Let there be light, to cause a quickening of life in your own human spirit, that is what this is all about.

COMMENT: All human spirits do not hear?

PASTOR VITALE: It is my understanding of the Scripture that it says in that day, the dead will hear the voice of God, or the voice of the son of God and those that hear...

COMMENT: So those that hear, in other words, some do not hear?

PASTOR VITALE: Well that is what it sounds like to me, some do not hear.

COMMENT: If you hear and respond, then you have life.

PASTOR VITALE: Right you have to hear.

COMMENT: You have to hear it and respond, so why is it that some do not hear, how come some cannot hear, I mean, it is the same thing as this right, the life of the Spirit of God is coming out of those waters so it is not touching all of the dust?

PASTOR VITALE: Well we hear about it in the parable of the soils, if you hear and you do not understand, the birds catch the seed and carry it away, some people hear and understand and they are filled with joy, but there is no root in them and when persecution comes because of the word, they fall away, we have all of these different situations in Jesus' parable of the soils, different reasons.

COMMENT: In the beginning His life coming out of that pit did light every particle then right?

PASTOR VITALE: At the beginning, yeah, but the creation...

COMMENT: We are the particles right?

PASTOR VITALE: We are fallen though, we are fallen and we are buried under a criminal mind. But I think I hear what you are getting at, the whole creation is being raised from the dead. If there is a man here or there who does not hear, he is just like one leaf on this plant, if he does not hear, God will go to someone else, the whole creation is being raised from the dead, we are one creation, many leaves, if you lose one leaf, the person is not going to burn in hell forever, he is just going to live out his life and you know...

COMMENT: Lose his self existence.

PASTOR VITALE: He is going to lose this existence, but the creation from the spiritual root is being raised from the dead, so what you see on the board is happening to the whole creation, so we may have a dead leaf on the plant here or there. To answer your question, the ones who do not hear are the ones who do not understand, because when I went back to the parable of the soils, the one that hears the word and receives it, and falls away because of persecution, would not apply to your question, the question you asked was, who would not hear it. Jesus said, the one who does not understand has it stolen away by the bird. If you hear and you do not understand, that is the one that is not going to respond.

COMMENT: (inaudible)

PASTOR VITALE: I have not studied it, I do now know, but that is what Jesus said. The one who does not understand it, the birds, meaning their carnal mind catch the seed and destroy it. What this means, let me just make this clear, if there is somebody that hears this word and does not understand, do not think that, that is the end of it for you, okay, because with God all things are possible, with God all things are possible. God is controlling everything, there is always another source.

COMMENT: Jesus said, Noone can come to me unless the Father draws him, the Father has to holding that scepter out and drawing you right?

PASTOR VITALE: That is true.

COMMENT: Many are called but few are chosen.

PASTOR VITALE: That is pretty much what I just said, Do not worry if you do not understand, if God is calling you, you will understand at some time in the future, I do not want to discourage anybody, that is hearing the message or anything like that, you do not have to understand everything I am talking about right away, this is very deep stuff that I am talking about, but if God is drawing you, the Father is drawing you, in due season, you will understand, little by little.

COMMENT: I hope I am saying this right, but I think scientists said that our blood is made out of crystalized light. Do you have any understanding or teaching about that?

PASTOR VITALE: I heard it, I have not really studied it, but I heard it. What that means to me if it is true, I have no reason to believe that it is not true, but I have not studied it myself, is that we were light before the fall, we were light, now we are darkness. Is that not a Scripture, that says, you were darkness but now you are light? That is what Paul said, right? It is in the Scripture. We were light, we were light beings, we were not made, right now we are primarily made of the earth, but we were light beings. At the transfiguration, when He was transfigured and He was glistening white, He was shining light, and after the resurrection He appeared to Paul as a ball of light, we were light beings at the beginning of time. What was your question Xxxx? Oh yes crystalized light, so crystal, anything that is crystalized means that, that substance has come into a solid form.

It makes sense to me that the spiritual life of the creation when it fell became crystalized. I have no problem with that, because I found Scriptures that indicate that. When the creation pushed through into this physical world, you see, the creation was not physical, it was visible, but it was not physical, today the creation is visible and physical, but it was not supposed to get to be physical, we were supposed to be visible and spiritual like Jesus was after the resurrection.

This is an addition, it is an added ring to the atom that was never supposed to be, and it is not a good place to be, it is called outer darkness. We found Scriptures that indicated that when Satan pierced through into this realm, he became hard. I remember when I first found that, I was looking up every word in the Hebrew, and I remember where it was, we were doing this study on Behemoth in the book of Job, and I found that Scripture and I said, He pierced through the tree and he became hard. What in the world does that mean? But we became hard, and this is the example, you start with water, when it is steam it is vapor, spirit, then as it starts to cool, it becomes water, okay, and then when it gets hard it become an ice cube, when it gets really cold, it becomes hard. That is what happened to the creation.

We descended and contrary to religious beliefs, hell is not hot, hell is the cold place, it is as far away from God as you can get. Most people can believe that, hell is as far away from God as you can get, well God is the sun, God is heat, God is light, and if hell is as far away from the son as you can get and hell is underneath the ground, it is dark and it is cold and it is damp, and it is yucky. It is not hot, it is cold, so we are down here and we have become hard, we have crystalized, our bodies are crystalized. Jesus after the resurrection, He can pass through walls, we cannot do that, we have become hard like ice cubes. Water when it is vapor can pass through anything, almost anything, I do not know, I guess if the vapor is strong enough, it would even penetrate these plaster walls, especially if it is hot right, it gets in the walls.

COMMENT: When you mentioned rainbow before, it made me think about blood in our veins, we know it is red and we have red and white blood cells, when you look at it, under the skin it is not red, it is blue.

PASTOR VITALE: Well it is blue, it is not red until it hits the air, your blood is blue, when it hits the oxygen it becomes red. You have blue blood, except for Spock, he has green blood, (laughing).

COMMENT: I am amazed at how awesome the ways of God are, the scientists do not even compare with Him, they are just coming into revelation of all He has done, and there is so much more.

PASTOR VITALE: We are an ice cube. We are about to be melted (laughing), we are being melted, these bodies are prison houses, prison houses of hell.

COMMENT: This is a joke, you are probably take it out of the message, but I am just thinking of all these husbands and their wives are frigid, it just came through my mind, you know, cold, and emotion, and how they respond, icebox, cold. There is so many worldly terms that are making sense to me now where before they were just words.

PASTOR VITALE: What is really interesting is that they are probably terms that have been passed down for generations and they probably started with people who were Bible readers, and now we do not even know where they come from. Even the expression your knees knock together from fear, I was amazed when I found that in the Bible, Job said that, he was so frightened that his knees smote one against the other, it is in the Bible. Yeah, his knees smote one against the other.

COMMENT: Belshazzar.

PASTOR VITALE: It may have been, maybe it was not Job, maybe it was Belshazzar.

COMMENT: When you were reading about Behemoth, and where did you find that in the Hebrew?

PASTOR VITALE: It is in the Hebrew, it is on the #18 series when we did that.

COMMENT: In Strong's Concordance?

PASTOR VITALE: No, it is in Gesenius.

COMMENT: Oh, Gesenius, it shows a whole other choice or words?

PASTOR VITALE: A whole other choice of words, and I was praying about what the correct choice of word should be, what it said was, that he pierced through the tree. It said, he pierced through the tree and he became hard. What kind of a crazy thing is this? Right now we are living in the outer realms, we are living out here in outer darkness, in hell, but we are not supposed to be out here, we are supposed to be inside behind a protected wall. We are supposed to be inside of the tree of life. There is a tree, you can also call it, we were just calling it the black hole. Another way we find it later on in the book of Genesis, it is the tree of life, and we are supposed to be inside of it, our spirit is supposed to be, we are supposed to be living out of the tree of life, and we are supposed to be inside of it. Our spirit is supposed to be, we are supposed to be living out of the inside of this tree, but our spirit that is on the inside of the tree, it died, and we are now living, we are now having existence by the spiritual life that is on the exterior, it is called outer darkness, we are living out here, in outer darkness.

Our consciousness is out here, this died, and Satan was inside the tree with us. Satan was inside the tree but he was not dissolved in the water, he was just dry land you see, and he had no spiritual power, but when he seduced Eve, he stole her spiritual power and he pierced through the tree. This outer realm is Satan's territory, he is the prince of the power of the air. When he was inside of the tree, he was under the dominion of Christ, inside of the tree of life, is Christ, and he is not even called Satan over here, he is just called the earth.

Christ was dominating the earth and he could not do anything except what Christ told him to do, but when he seduced Eve and he laid hold of her spiritual power, he found the strength to get away from Christ's dominion and he pierced through the tree and he is now existing in the outer realms, because he could not exist in here, this was where Christ was. We had it another way, let me give it to you the other way. The tree of life is the mind of Christ, the Lord gave us this earlier this year, the tree of life, we are told that there is a tree of life, and then we are told that there is a tree of the knowledge of good and evil, and the way the King James translators translated it, it sounds like there is two trees, it says that the tree of the knowledge of good and evil is in the midst of the garden, no it is in the midst of the tree of life.

The firmament, it was under Christ's dominion, Christ was on top of him, and Christ was underneath him, and this tree of the knowledge of good and evil was right here, it was in the midst of the tree of life and the creation was safe, it was protected, it was defensed. How was it defensed? Because these rays of the life of Christ was outside of it, defending it, but Satan, he got a hold of this spiritual authority and he pierced through the tree, and his world is out here.

COMMENT: Satan is the pestilence in the dust right?

PASTOR VITALE: He is the pestilence in the dust and he has stolen the water, and now he is living out here and the Scripture says that we have fallen in to the pit. That is how the Scripture describes it. We have fallen into the pit, we have fallen into this outer darkness here, we were safe in this place, this is called Eden, the tree of life, Eden, and now we are living outside and our inside, if Christ is not being quickened, our inside is empty. We have got to get back inside of this journey back to God, it is in, we have to go back in to God, He is in here, He is in here, and He is being raised from the dead in you, He is being raised in here, and we have got to go back in.

COMMENT: The enemy and Christ within.

PASTOR VITALE: Everything is within. We have this existence in these outer realms, and the Scripture calls it a lie. This whole existence is a lie, it is not real, it is illusion, it is a picture, it is imaginary, it is imaginary. Our true reality is in our mind, and because we are living in the outer realms, most of us or many of us are not aware of really what goes on in our unconscious mind. Even people in the church, we are not aware of what is going on in our unconscious mind. That is why God is sending the two witness company, to convict of us our sins because even people in the church, we do not even know the sin that is in our mind.

Usually when a member of the two witness company comes to tell us, we attack them and we fight them and accuse them of all kinds of evil, because it is very painful to look into your own heart, nobody wants to see it. The Scripture says, the heart of man is desperately wicked, who could know it. Our defenses have to be torn down so that we can really see ourselves and when we see ourselves, we can confess it as sin and repent and ask God to restore us to this condition. There is no restoration back to the condition of heaven without confessing that we are now hell. We have a whole church world full of people claiming that they are righteous and they are not entering in until they admit that they are just as fallen as the rest of the world.

What they have that the rest of the world does not have is that their human spirit has heard, has been troubled by the Spirit of God, they have been a stirring in their human spirit and some light is starting to flicker, but that dust is in there and it is fallen, the whole creation is fallen. Whoever cannot confess that they are fallen or that there is sin in their mind and in their heart, and not just a general statement, but whoever cannot look at themselves when someone points it out to them and says, Yes that was a sinful thought, if you cannot start to do it, you are not returning back into heaven because no fornicator and no adulterer and no form of spiritual criminal is entering into the kingdom of God.

We have a whole church world full of fallen people, saying that all those people who are doing all of those sins in the natural are not entering in, and they are, but I have got a flash for you, that all of these sins, adultery, fornication, homosexuality, everything, it is a spiritual sin, it is a condition of your mind. Everyone who is dead is guilty of every one of those sins, because everyone of those sins listed in the book of Revelation is a sin that is committed every second of your life by your carnal mind, everybody except the one who is in full stature and to the best of my knowledge, there is only one man that is in full stature, His name is Jesus Christ, and that means no matter how cleaned up your life is, you have a soul and a human spirit, that is committing everyone of those sins with the carnal mind, every second of your life.

The carnal mind is denying it, and you are refusing to let your behavior do it. I was listening to a tape the other day about a meeting that we had here, and one sister was saying, if I lie my sin is just as great as the person who murders you know, and that is not true, it is true that we are all sinners, and we all need a saviour and we all need to be cleaned up, but Jesus clearly said, that each sin will have its just recompense and the greater the sin, the great sin will have many stripes and the lesser sin will have few stripes.

You will reap what you sow in proportion to your wickedness, but it is true that we are all sinners and we all need a saviour. It is not realistic to say that your life is going to have the same, if you tell a little lie because you wanted to protect your pride, that, that lie is going to have the same consequence as you murdering somebody or as you being a homosexual. There are severe penalties for homosexuality, severe curses fall on you. I am not talking about being a compulsive liar, but if you tell a little lie here or there, we are all human at this point. Eventually, I am not excusing it, it is sin, but so long as our nature is sin, we will do these things.

COMMENT: What is the name for a wicked spirit.

PASTOR VITALE: A demon?

COMMENT: Right, how many of those does a person normally have in their spirit, I guess you would say. In the spirit, before he comes to know Christ, or she?

PASTOR VITALE: It depends on the person, see there are curses in this world, but there are blessings in this world, and the person who is raised in a family where they are taught the righteousness of God, it modifies, it controls how many demons they have, you can be a reasonably godly person in this world if you are taught the way of righteousness and you follow it, and you keep the ten commandments, you are not likely to have very many.

If you have gone out and you have yielded to evil in your mind, you know, you could have quite a few, I really do not know how many, but I would not, you know, it is really nothing to be concentrating on. As the Spirit of God starts moving in your life, they will come out.

COMMENT: How?

PASTOR VITALE: How? The power of God forces them out. Sometimes you need hands laid on you, and they need to be commanded out, sometimes they come when you are sitting in a meeting like this, they will come out, I saw a couple of you yawning tonight, people that have not been told, sometimes get embarrassed, but spirits or demons are breath, they are air, they come out through yawns, they come out through belches, they are air, coming out of your body in any way.

If the power of God is coming forth in a meeting like this, it can force them out. Your carnal mind does not want you here. It could be a spirit, it could be your carnal mind, it is your flesh. Praise God.

COMMENT: He could have been hearing Xxxx's thoughts.

PASTOR VITALE: Yes, you may have been hearing Xxxx's thoughts, Xxxx has to go to school tomorrow and I knew that he would be leaving early and you may have heard his thought. He has to go home and get to sleep.

COMMENT: Could it be possible that it registered in his mind on some level.

PASTOR VITALE: Yes, it is very possible. This is a spiritual meeting and you are open, your spirit, we are all spiritually open, you may very well have heard his thought, how does that make you feel? As you get more and more spiritual, as we get more and more spiritual, we begin to not so much that we hear other people's thoughts, but their thoughts register in our mind and as we develop spiritually, one of the exercises that we have to enter into is learning to tell whose thought it is in our mind and whether or not we want to obey it.

I hear other people's thoughts all of the time, and I know that I, well compared to the average human being, I am pretty spiritual, I do not know how spiritual I am compared to Jesus, but compared to the average person, I am pretty spiritual and I get other people's thoughts in my mind all of the time, and if they are not godly thoughts I have to resist them, like you just resisted that thought. You said, No I do not want to go to sleep. Well it was not your thought, it was his thought.

With Xxxx, I could understand it because he is going for job training and it is a very important aspect of his life so he was saying, I better get home and go to sleep, you know my whole life is on the line tomorrow, I got to get up and go for this job training, so it was not an ungodly thing for him, but for you it would, that thought for him was not ungodly but for you it would have been ungodly, but you took the victory, you resisted it. It becomes a whole way of life that when thoughts come into my mind, every thought that comes into my mind, the first thing I do is decide whether or not it is godly, and then I deal with it, I do not automatically respond to thoughts in my mind. All kinds of people's thoughts come into my mind, and I heard people's thoughts within what we say an audible voice a couple of times when people are planning to do me evil, God let me hear their thoughts and I actually heard their voice, but that does not happen to often, but lots of times I get thoughts in my mind and I know it cannot be me.

I know it has to be someone else's thoughts and what that does, is it gives me an opportunity to help them to pray for them. I get a lot of negative thoughts, somebody was suicidal last week, I know it was not me, I am not suicidal, but I got suicide last week, and I rebuked it, and I prayed for the person whoever it was. When you become the spiritual person, you start entering into other people's minds. How do you feel about that, does that make you nervous?

COMMENT: Sad.

PASTOR VITALE: Sad? Why does it make you sad. It is an opportunity to help people.

COMMENT: I think what the Lord was just showing me through this is that, everybody is at different levels and whatever level you are at, you are in connection with someone else that may be at that level, if Satan is really strong in somebody and somebody else has Satan at a certain level, of strength of that darkness, it speaks, and it has a pull for that person, or if they have a large, if they have a lot of Christ matured in them, then the one that is more matured, they have communication, it is like levels. If you are on this level, and somebody decides something, it might pull for you, that you have to decide what you are going to do, are you going to go up a little higher with Christ, or are you going to go with that person.

PASTOR VITALE: That is interesting, because when I perceived suicide, I was in no way tempted to commit suicide, it was just a knowledge that someone that I had a connection with was depressed to the point of suicide, there was no threat at all of me doing it, but what you are saying is when you are on the same level, whatever it is that you hear, it is trying to influence you.

COMMENT: That it actually has that influence. I am taking it just exactly like what has been shown here tonight, there is different levels of it, as we were talking about it, the Lord witnessed to me who it was, I felt the soul of that person.

PASTOR VITALE: Who is that, suicide?

COMMENT: Yeah, I know who it was, I will not put the name on the tape, but I know who it was, but it has to do with the soul, it is like we are one big soul and here we are in the water of this level, different levels. There are different levels of Christ shining through us.

PASTOR VITALE: Right, so there is one level of this form of connection where you could be influenced by someone else's sin, and then another level where you are aware of it and not influenced by it, and that is when you are really in a position to help, because when you are on a level where someone else's sin is influencing you, then you are in danger, you are in danger, but when you overcome to a point where you can perceive it in the spirit without having your soul influenced by it, you are really in a position to help people.

I want to tell you the Scripture says that we should pray without ceasing. I have people just marching through my mind all day long, and I just pray very simply, I just rebuke the enemy and ask God to help them, and I get reports back that this simple little prayer. I will see someone in my mind, and I will just rebuke the devourer and ask God to have mercy and I get a report back that they were set free from some severe bondage. That is when you get into that place in the spirit, you have power to help people.

COMMENT: I know Jesus knew what was in the hearts of men, He knew their thoughts, but the Scripture where it says He was touched by our infirmities. I thought that meant he had compassion for us, but does it mean something even deeper.

PASTOR VITALE: I think so. I think so, my life is very interesting. I suffer a lot, I suffer a lot feeling people's emotions that I am not yet mature enough to take dominion over. That suicide did not hurt me at all, it was just like a flash through my mind, but I feel people's emotions, I have been in torment all week, rebuking it all week, and I could not, it would not go away, I would not let it stop me, but it would not go away, and finally, I found out over many years of this, that when the Lord reveals to me whose feelings I am feeling, it tends to break the yoke. A whole week I was really suffering and I did not find out who it was until yesterday.

This morning I woke up for the first time in almost a whole week, I have woke up feeling refreshed from my sleep, so there is pain involved but it is an overcoming and I believe in God that as I refuse to let these emotions drain me down, that whoever the person is that is suffering that I am dragging them up, and as I get stronger and stronger, it is going to all of these emotions that still have the power to make me suffer, that eventually I will get to the same place with them as I got to with the suicide spirit, that it will be knowledge in my mind without being tormented in the soul.

Then I will really be in a position to help them, because see when I am in a place where I am feeling their torment, a large part of my energy is going into not letting myself be overcome by their depression. I will not let myself be overcome, by their depression, so a lot of my energy is going into them, but when I get to the place where it is just in my spirit and it is not in my soul, that all of my energy can go to help the person. That is a maturing in Christ, I am not there yet.

COMMENT: So, bear ye each other's burden, that is even a deeper meaning of that aspect, rather than just normal help and support.

PASTOR VITALE: Yes, because there is such a thing as an ungodly burden and there is only so much that you can do to help somebody in the flesh, you are not supposed to walk around depressed. If you have a friend who is severely burdened and suicidal, you are not supposed to let them drag you down. This is a big misunderstanding in the church, in the world, it is no glory to God when you lose your job or have your life hurt or hurt other loved ones, to try and help somebody, that is not God. When God sends you to help somebody, He gives you power to help them without having your own life destroyed.

I will tell you this because I have been dealing with troubled people for years now, and when God sends you to a troubled person, every problem in their soul is trying to jump on you and kill you, and bring you right down to where they are. You cannot enter this kind of ministry unless Jesus brings you in, and you have got to build up to it, because this is the real thing, and I am not in any way knocking the casting out of demons, but I want to tell you it is good in its place, but it is kindergarten. This is the real thing, when God sends you to troubled people, and every demon in their soul tries to get on you, every problem that they have tries to reproduce itself in your soul, and you fight it off in your own soul plus you pull them through, that is glorious, but it takes a very spiritually strong person.

Do you know what God told me, do you know remember that Catholic priest that was running Covenant House that went out in absolute disgrace because he a connection with young homosexual prostitute, the Lord spoke to me about him, and he said to me, that, that man was straight, that man was, he had devoted his whole life to that ministry and to the church and to young people and that homosexual prostitute that walked in there, that came in there to stay there, was so demonized that he literally stirred up something in that man that may have been the first time he experienced it, he was overcome by the demons in that demonized young man, and he was a Catholic priest, he did not have Christ, and he went down, he went down in absolute disgrace.

He against his own will, he was seduced by the demons in that kid, he was the victim, the priest was the victim. Sin has power, sin has power, to go in there and try and help highly demonized people like that without having an anointing on you, you are in great danger.

COMMENT: I think of Paul when he said, that he had to watch himself that he not be ensnared.

PASTOR VITALE: Yes, you have to watch all of the time. There is a disproportionate number of prison guards that become criminal, a disproportionate number of attendants in mental institutions that become mentally ill. The spirits get, if you do not have Christ, and even if you have Christ, if you are not trained in this warfare, I want to tell you there are Christians going down every day because they are without understanding. They are not trained in this warfare, you better not enter into this kind of thing because our soul is a harlot, and she gets seduced against our will.

That is the size of it. I saw a movie, it was an excellent movie with Telly Savalas, he was a psychiatrist, and he worked in a mental institution and he was, they loved him because he really loved the people but he identified with the people. Listen to this, there were psychiatrists that just looked at the people as if they were patients and would not get personal with them at all, but he was a psychiatrist that really got in there, he really loved the people, he met them on their own level, he respected them, he saw their humanity in them. What am I saying? He developed soul ties with them, which other psychiatrists did not, and guess what?

He did not think it was ungodly, he met them on their own level, I would not say it was an ungodly soul it, no I would not say that. He was always the doctor, he maintained his position as the doctor, but he treated them with love and compassion and he recognized them as human beings, and a connection formed, and he went insane. The psychiatrist that did not make that personal connection, they were all okay. This stuff is contagious, it is as contagious as a physical disease.

COMMENT: I am thinking of Jesus when He said, I only do what the Father tells me to do, like He did not just go to anyone and everyone, just what the Father spoke to Him to do. I guess in the world they might call someone who tries to help somebody without the right qualifications needed, they would call them an enabler, right?

PASTOR VITALE: Well not necessarily, an enabler helps somebody to continue in their sin, but there are people who go and try to help people out of their sin but they do not have the spiritual weapons to do it, so you are spinning your wheels. Although there are people in the world, I mean there is a strong support system for drug addicts and alcoholics in the world, that it really works.

COMMENT: The bottom line is that psychiatrist did not have the spiritual power, but if he would have had Christ in his being, he could have mixed with that sin and that sin would not have got on him, right?

PASTOR VITALE: Only if he implemented the Christ. It is not enough to have Christ, Christ is a weapon, and we must be trained to use Him as a weapon, to be vigilant, to see the sin coming to seduce us and to stop it. Not many people are trained like in the church. I cannot let it go on the tape, people have got to understand it is not enough to have Christ. Now number one we are not talking about the Holy Spirit for sure, and number two, we are talking about the beginnings of the imparted anointing which is the warrior Christ and we are talking about someone who is trained in this warfare.

I do not recommend that anyone goes to deal with highly demonized people unless Christ has sent you, and you take people in the world that do not know the Lord that are counselors to drug addicts and alcoholics and prostitutes and people that have had severe problems in their lives, they are not as vulnerable as people that are calling themselves Christian. The ones who are Christians are open spiritually, and you could be open spiritually without having your weapon drawn and that is the danger that Christians have.

COMMENT: Are you talking about going to minister to another Christian?

PASTOR VITALE: I am talking about ministering to a highly demonized person. I am talking about a Christian person going to minister to a severely troubled person. Christians are spiritually open, whereas worldly people, counselors and such are not spiritually open. The Christian is more vulnerable than the social worker.

COMMENT: But we want to be able to be like Jesus to be able to sit down and eat with the sinners right?

PASTOR VITALE: Only as Jesus leads you, if you go without His leading, you are looking for trouble.

COMMENT: How do you know for sure, I mean is it not that Christ is at a certain maturity in you, and He tells you when to go and when not to go?

PASTOR VITALE: Yeah, I would not be recommending any Christian go unless they know it is God, and if you do not know that it is God, then you should not go.

COMMENT: ... but God sends the people to you.

PASTOR VITALE: Well you better be praying all of the time, that for God to remove everyone from your life that He has not sent and to give you wisdom to recognize it, and to accept His decisions in your life, and then I would pray very aggressively that anyone that He does not remove that I would believe in Him to protect me from. I would pray very aggressively, I would not fool around with that at all.

COMMENT: Okay, now you are saying it a little different than what I heard from you before that like, you can pierce through to a realm or you just know that the people that are sent to you are from God.

PASTOR VITALE: Well you can, you can, but the question is, are you in that realm or not, and only, I do not know, I would not know unless God told me, I do not know for any individual, if you come to me and ask me to pray for you, God may tell me, and God may not tell me, but I do not know where you are in God.

COMMENT: But if God is in control of my life so strongly that I do not have to...

PASTOR VITALE: You better be praying all of the time, I pray all of the time, God keep me from troubled people that I am trying to help, because if I fall down, how are you going to be glorified in it, I pray all of the time. If I am not strong enough to help this person, get them out of my life because they will not get help, and I will go down. Only bring me people that I am capable of helping. How are you glorified in both of us going down? I pray that way all of the time, without ceasing.

COMMENT: You had mentioned just now something that I took for granted up until now, about how there are different programs for drug dealers and alcoholics and how I heard it myself often said that if through the rooms of other programs who believe in a higher power will say well, I have known people to leave the program and go into a church or a Christian organization of some sort and next thing you know, they are drinking again, because they forgot the stories that were told to them about drugs and alcohol do to you, but they felt that going to a church of some sort would just take over all of that.

PASTOR VITALE: Yeah, it is a big problem in the church today because we have a lot of Christians preaching to exalcoholics, and drug addicts that you do not need that AA, it is not a Christian organization, come into the church, and the anointing in the church today in most instances is not strong enough to keep them, and I have seen broken hearted people. Some people think that God did not love them enough to keep them, and they are broken hearted and then some people are angry at God and become bitter at God, and they do not want anything to do with God, it is a severe problem in the church today, and I will never tell someone to come out of AA, I will never tell anyone to do that.

Go to both places until you are sure that God is calling you out of AA, until you are sure that you are in a church where the anointing is so strong that it can sustain you, go both places, do not do that, do not do that, yeah. No, there is so much error in the church today, it is very sad you know. I have heard stories of sick people coming in and believers taking their medicine away and they are getting very sick, you know. I was very sick for years, and I had a man harass me for years, I was on very heavy vitamins, rebuking me for taking vitamins, I would have gotten very ill if I did not take them. I do not take them now, but at the time I needed them.

We just have a lot of very immature believers in the church going around trying to run people's lives and some people get hurt. My counsel to anyone with AA, or NA, is go to both, go to both until you are absolutely sure that you do not need AA or Na anymore. It has a devastating effect, when I came to the Lord, I was a very sickly person, and I was on a very severe health food diet, and I came into the church, I would not touch a soft drink because if you are a healthy person and you like to drink soda it is okay, but I was not a healthy person and soda is not something that is going to give you health, so I would not touch soda and I would not touch a piece of cake with sugar in it, and I came into the church, and they had a few church dinners and they were drinking soda and eating cake and donuts and said to myself, Well, if they are doing it, I should be able to do it too, and I really backslid in that area, because I saw the people in the church so undisciplined with their diet, and it really hurt me. If it hurt me, what do you think it is going to do to someone who is an alcoholic or narcotics addict, they could really stumble over it.

COMMENT: Getting back to demons, and it has got to be possible but, if you are living in a place where you know mentally as well as physically people are just not living right at all, I am having trouble wording this, but, they are just not living right emotionally or physically, could demons come and attack you if you are fighting off certain...

PASTOR VITALE: Yes, they can.

COMMENT: Then myself, I could take it out on someone who I do not mean to take it out on or...

PASTOR VITALE: You mean lose your temper?

COMMENT: Lose my temper, or pick up a beer, or curse or say something at the wrong time which I do not mean to say but it just comes out, and normally I would not say it?

PASTOR VITALE: Yeah, you could be provoked, definitely.

COMMENT: So then I would be in spiritual warfare with my...

PASTOR VITALE: It would be a spiritual warfare yeah, but you are a very young Christian, I would counsel to start praying, asking the Lord that if He wants you in a more godly place, I am sure that money is factor, you know, just tell Him that you recognize that it is not a godly house that you are living in, and ask Him if He does not have another place for you to stay, ask Him what His answer is for you.

Do not go moving out, do not go moving out, but start praying about it and asking the Lord what He would do for you. He might put a hedge of protection around you right in this house or He might, I do not know what His answer is for you, but He wants you to go before Him and say, Father, I recognize I am in an ungodly place, but I have certain restrictions at this time in my life, probably financial, what is your answer for me? He might give you a wonderful job, I do not know how He would get you out of it, but He wants you to give Him the situation. If you are trying to come out of the world, Xxxx, you are such a young Christian, it is not ideal for you to be surrounded with all of this ungodliness, it is weakening you. It is not an ideal place for you to be. We will just pray for you right now that the Lord help you in this area, whatever His answer for you is.

COMMENT: I know there can transferring of spirits, but you were talking about demonized people before, when somebody comes into your path that is demonized, you can pray for them spiritual warfare right? Without them being there, I mean just on your own, and that is permissible, is that the right word?

PASTOR VITALE: I do not know what you mean by spiritual warfare, we have to be very careful that we do not use spiritual warfare to try to control other people because the control of people is witchcraft. However, there is a difference between us trying to control somebody with our mind and us trying to defend ourselves from somebody's mind. Defending yourself against somebody else's aggressive mind is not witchcraft, that could be done in Christ.

If someone's mind is trying to put a thought in you to drink a beer for example, you have every right to say, I rebuke you, and I break your power over me, and I turn you away from me. That spiritual warfare is acceptable and then you can pray for the person's salvation. Do not let them put their mind in you, you do not have to be controlled by someone else's mind, but when you turn around, and start trying to control them back, then it becomes sin. We really need to be educated in Christ.

COMMENT: If someone you know is plagued by insanity, to rebuke family line curses, insanity and all of that, would that be considered witchcraft?

PASTOR VITALE: It all depends on how you are doing it, if you are doing it from time to time as you feel led to bless the person, it could be God, but if you are doing it on a regular basis because you are afraid of that insanity getting on you, that means you are trying to control them, and that, I do not perceive that to be God, I really do not.

COMMENT: I was just thinking about praying for them, it had nothing to do with no affecting yourself, just praying for them.

PASTOR VITALE: you have to be very careful because there is a fine line where it is witchcraft. What it is, is that you are trying, people who do that, I know that there is a whole element of the church who does that, but it is really witchcraft, to use the name of the Lord to try to force something ungodly in somebody's mind to break, it really has to be God, it is a very fine line, it is very hard for me to explain.

When I see somebody, let me give you an example, that is the only thing I could do, if I see somebody that has a problem, I go before the, the first thing I do, I never take it on myself, I go before the Lord and I say, Father I see this person, I see insanity, would you give me a prayer, that is how I pray, give me a prayer, I say, Lord my heart is turned towards them, give me a prayer, and sometimes He gives me a prayer, and sometimes He does not, and if He does not give me a prayer, I could always pray for them and bless them, but to go after that insanity and pound it and pound it and pound it, as we are taught in old order deliverance, I do not perceive it to be God.

When you say, Lord give me a prayer, if a prayer comes out of the realm of the spirit, it is done, if God does it, it is done. What our job, see we have got our jobs backwards, we have to know that in matters of prayer, we are not male, we are female, and we go before God and we say, Father you are the male, we are the female vessel that your will, will be expressed through, what is your will for this person? Do you think it is possible that God wants someone to remain insane? Well maybe it is His will, how do you know what He is doing? Right exactly, how do you know it is not His will? How do you know that there is not a person who is connected to that insane man that is called to be a son of God that is being tried and tested because of this person's insanity?

The bottom line is that we have a whole church world of people that are taking authority that God never gave them. We are supposed to be executing God's instructions, we are not supposed to be taking it on ourselves, to make decisions about who needs what kind of ministry, and the church is very guilty about this, large numbers of the church are guilty of this, they think they have the wisdom to decide what God would do with somebody and then they start praying along those lines and sometimes people get hurt.

COMMENT: I am just thinking that, that takes a tremendous burden off of the believer.

PASTOR VITALE: Yes.

COMMENT: Because He said His burdens are light.

PASTOR VITALE: Yeah, but the church is not thinking right in many areas, they are just not thinking right. We are the servants of God, and all we can do is say, Father look at that person, would have mercy, would you bless them, would you grant them salvation Father, and sometimes I will say, What would you do for that person, Father look at them, what will you do for them? If He gives me a prayer, He gives me a prayer. If He does not, that is it, because the church has to realize that we do not have any power, all power is with God, and we have no right to initiate power, and when we initiate it, it is witchcraft, and we have to know that, and the church does not know it.

Let us say there is a young girl that is going to church and you know that she is involved in fornication, you do not know the whole story, you do not know her history, you do not know her background, you do not know what God is doing, you see, the church is no longer under the law, it is not enough, in God's eyes, it is not enough to get that young girl out of that man's bed, that does not satisfy God, He wants to deal with the condition of her soul that put her there in the first place.

If you bind and you loose and you rebuke the fornication and she rises up and she gets out of that man's bed, and then you stop binding and loosing and by the time you blink, two months later she is in someone else's bed. What have you accomplished? You have controlled her, you have broken up that relationship, but you have not helped her to stop sinning. Now she is not only fornicating, but she is going from man to man, she is worse off than she was before you started praying for her.

COMMENT: It is always appropriate to say, Father bless that person, always appropriate.

PASTOR VITALE: Always, always, bless them, save their soul, have mercy of them, help them.

COMMENT: What about praying in tongues?

PASTOR VITALE: Well you can if you want to but it is the same thing, it is trying to take control, it is trying to take control. Sometimes I will rebuke the enemy, if I have someone in mind, I will say, bless them, have mercy on them, grant them salvation, and I might also say, I just rebuke the devourer over their life, but it is a one time thing, this concept of putting your will into it, binding and loosing and praying in tongues and praying, putting you will into it, that is what is witchcraft, putting your own will into it, that is where the witchcraft is. The true son has thoughts of life towards the person, thoughts of life, peace, love, joy, salvation, mercy, I do not know if I am reaching you, but it is a very fine line, I am? It is very important.

COMMENT: The taking the kingdom by violence, that just means our own carnal mind?

PASTOR VITALE: the violent take it by force, the violent man is the carnal mind that is trying to take it by force. You know, I know that a lot of Christians say, Well we have to take it by force, no it is the carnal man, it is the carnal man that is trying to take the kingdom of God by force. That is not what God wants us to do. The Kingdom of God suffers violence, and the violent take it by force, and maybe others who are not Christians are trying to capture the power of God by force.

That is not Jesus saying that you are supposed to take it by force. He is saying, Do not do that, that is what the carnal mind does, the carnal mind binds and looses and prays in tongues and puts their will into it, and they will not stop pounding until what their praying comes to pass, but that is not God's way.

COMMENT: What does it mean to keep on knocking?

PASTOR VITALE: Well that is not for someone else that is for yourself.

COMMENT: It always against the carnal mind then.

PASTOR VITALE: To keep on knocking means to knock on the door of the spirit. I knock all of the time, Let me in Lord, I do not like it down here, let me in. We have a whole church minding other people's business, butting into other people's lives, thinking that they know what is best for other people, and praying along those lines, none of these Scriptures apply to that, it is witchcraft, it is a gossip, it is a busybody spirit.

COMMENT: Better a man rule his own spirit than ten cities.

PASTOR VITALE: Look at yourself, look at yourself, look at yourself first, Jesus is clear when He says that. We have a lot of error in the church today, that spirit is witchcraft and busybody and gossip, it is widespread, it is widespread.

COMMENT: Pastor Vitale, would the root of that be a religious spirit?

PASTOR VITALE: A lot of people that have that tendency that are forced to repress it in the world because their relatives will not tolerate it, or if they are a woman, their husband will not tolerate it, they come into the church, and they find free expression for it, because they think it is acceptable, but it is that same wicked spirit that just wants to control other people's lives.

COMMENT: I keep hearing, Let go and let God.

PASTOR VITALE: Yeah. I am a little tired tonight and I think we are going to call it quits. I will take one more question from each of you if you have it. Anybody? Going, going, gone.

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