263 - 1 Part

The Following Message Has Been Transcribed For
Clarity, Continuity Of Thought, And Punctuation By
 The LEM Transcribing & Editing Team.


            I feel the Lord is breaking -- He said He is breaking our pride some more.

Well, you know what that means.

            Yeah. Because He cannot use a vessel that has pride.

You know what that means. With the first group here, we had a word similar to that. I said, everyone that wants deliverance from pride, come for prayer. The whole group ran to the front. Within one month, everybody had bounced out of the ministry except only one person. When God says --


-- He is breaking your pride, it means trouble, brethren. It means trouble.

            Praise You, Jesus.

And you must take the victory in Christ. You must humble yourself and do what is right, no matter how painful it is, what is right in the eyes of the Lord, not what is right in your eyes. So, beware: With a word like that, severe trial is coming upon you, and there is a -- more than a 60 to 80 percent chance that your conflict will be with me.

            Praise You, Jesus.

I told everybody that; nobody believed me. What happened [?after that?], I told them, and they were out of here.

            Thank You, Lord.

            Every one of them?

Every one of them. Rita is the only one that carried over, but she left, and she came back, every one of them, the whole first group.

            I could just see it. It is like -- it looks like a pillow --


            -- like a cloud or something, and the pride is this big, poofy cloud. [UNINTELLIGIBLE] and it is like it is underneath the personality. I see it. It is, like, the base factor of the personality. And when a person thinks they have got it down and they are really humbled before the Lord and they are doing the right thing, it is popping up over in this corner, and it is popping up over in this corner. And they think they have got it down, but it pops up over in this corner. That is what it --


            -- the picture I am getting.


            So we think that we are there, but we are not, but it keeps coming up, and it has to be dealt with.

And what happens is God will deliberately arrange a trial that will stimulate your pride. You think -- well, it is. It is down in your bottomless pit, and God deliberately lets a trial come upon you that will cause it to rise up and overtake the Christ in you. And the chances are really high --


-- that your trial is going to be with me.


Praise the Lord.


I just pray for victory for everybody. What?

            That is really His love letting it happen so that we [CROSSTALK]

That is His love because we think we have got it under control, but, you see, He does not want us to have it under control. Well, let me -- He wants it under control, temporarily. It is a Band-Aid. It has got to come out. It has got to be destroyed. Excuse me. And our normal human reaction --

            [?Praise Jesus?].

-- is to press it down, so God puts so much pressure on us in the trial that we cannot hold it down, and it is literally forced to the surface, and we are exposed. Sin in us is exposed, and what will we do about it? And if sin is exposed in you, what will you do about it? What will I do about it if sin is exposed in me? What will I do about it? What will you do about it? The testing is continuous. It is continuous.

            Thank you, Lord.


            Oh, I have seen it -- what it is. It is fat. That is what I am looking at. I said it looked like a pillow. It is fat.


            It is sin.


            It is fat, and it is -- we think we have got it under control, but it is the fat. It is the sin, and it is popping up in different areas where we cannot see it, and it is coming through, and it is contaminating the Christ. So [CROSSTALK]

            [CROSSTALK] in the Scripture. I thought it meant something good.

Well, [UNINTELLIGIBLE] -- it is not unusual for the same word to have different meanings in different contexts. For example, the word white --                     


-- means righteousness. White linen is the righteousness of the saints, but we also found out that white typifies Satan.

            [?Does it?]?

Yes, the lack of color. When we are talking about the animal life, the color red means life and goodness, red in the cheeks, OK. But whiteness, in the animal life, means paleness and death, which is Satan, OK. So the s- -- one thing -- it will mean one -- any concept or word you lay hold of, it will mean one thing in the realm of the spirit and another thing in the realm of the soul and the exact opposite. [UNINTELLIGIBLE] like the [UNINTELLIGIBLE] -- the color green, for example, means life and trees and grass, but if you see green on a piece of meat, you better not cook it because you could die. So it usually means the exact opposite. The same thing means the exact opposite from the soul realm to the spirit realm.

            What a maze, huh?


            Amazing grace.

So, you see, let me just caution you. See, once again, the issue -- if you do come in conflict with me, which is very likely, the issue is not whether or not I am right or wrong. The Lord is looking to see your reaction to the test, and if I am wrong, He is the one -- you do have a recourse; you definitely have a recourse, your prayer closet. But He must correct me, so the issue is not whether or not I am right or wrong; the issue is how I treat you and how you treat me. And if any one of us messes up and loses it, how quickly will you apologize and make it right? That is what is happening here, OK, so just keep it in mind because I told you two years ago. I came back from the convention in Connecticut, and I came back with a prophecy to everyone. You were not here, but basically to the five of us here. I came back with a prophecy, that God is raising up a powerful ministry here and that we are the eldership. He is the foundation, and we are the apostles of this particular expression of His life, and as soon as we get it together, He is going to start bringing people in.

Now He has shown what He is doing to me much more clearly. Those -- you that have been here, you know how hard it is to stay in this ministry, that the anointing is intense; it exposes sin. Satan rises up, brings conflict. It is very, very hard to stay in this ministry. Satan will do anything he can to get you out, and we all know how many people have been washed away, but this group has stuck, OK. Now the way He just showed it to me while Rita was playing is this: Apparently, we are a very strong group that He has put together here. We have -- I have conflicted with every one of you, and you have all conflicted with me, and we have taken the victory time [?after time here?]. We have worked it out in Christ, and He has been glorified in us, OK.

Now when we get to the point -- and I do not know what it is. I do not have the exact details, but He has it. When the Lord says that we have pulled it together to a certain degree -- that is His standard; I am not even sure what it is, OK. Now this does not mean that we will never have conflict again. We will probably always have conflict so long as we are in our humanity. But when God makes a judgment that we have pulled it together, all five of us -- and that means all five of us. That means not four and not three and not four and a half, but all five of us have to be making it with every other one, not just me with the four of you. But all five of us has to be make- -- each of us has to be making it with each of the other four. Every time there is a conflict, the victory must be taken. We must submit to one another. Christ must be submitted to.

And when God says we arrive at the place, whatever that [?hallmark?] is, that He is going to start bringing the people in because, when the people come in, they are going to be demonized people. And as in accordance with the message that we are in right now, they will be coming in with their carnal minds trying to shake the rock that this ministry is founded on. They will be coming in with division. Their carnal minds will be operating. Their thoughts will be manifesting in our minds, their hatreds, their jealousies, their envies, their resentments, their rebellion, their pride will be registering in our hearts. And if we are not fighting this warfare and if we do not know that it is not us but it is them and we are not willing to fight it both in the spirit and in conf- -- in godly confrontation when necessary, if we are not doing it, they are not going to stay, and they might even bring down the whole ministry.

So we are in training right now to be unshakable in Christ so that the others, who desperately need this ministry, [?are highly?] -- this ministry is called to minister to highly demonized people, severely troubled people, and I am not putting anybody down, people that have not been helped by the anointing that is in the professing church. We have drugs addicts and alcoholics and mentally ill people with a lot of demons in their minds that are going to be coming in and trying to get to us and divide us and pull us apart and wreck everything that God has done here. And, therefore, God is not letting them come in until we are ready, and a large part of our readiness is our deliverance from sin. The more sin that we have, the more vulnerable we are for someone's demon to hook onto us and manifest through us, seduce us to agree with their ungodly thought. And then, all of a sudden, we are filled with rebellion; all of a sudden, we are filled with pride; all of a sudden, we are filled with envy; all of a sudden, we cannot stand that sister. And that is the way it works, so we are getting cleaned up, and God has a lot of people that are going to get helped, but the foundation has to be in place.

[AUDIO CUTS OUT] that are destined to receive their help from Christ here, OK, not that [INAUDIBLE] but that the Lord has named judgment that He will answer their prayer with this ministry. That is [?the way He works through me?], so there is a big trial coming. When this rage rises up at this ministry, that is -- it is probably right around the corner. We should know by now that whenever God pours out an anointing like this, it is rest and relaxation before the trial. It is happened so many times. Although, to tell you the truth, I did not think about it until someone came forth with the word. You came forth with the word, but every time He pours out an anointing like this, it is usually to heal us [?and maybe?] before the onslaught comes.

Now, remember, when it comes, it comes in here with division. It comes in, and it tries to set us one against the other, OK, number one. If you can withstand that, fine. If you cannot withstand it, if the pressure is so great that you manifest or that I manifest or that anybody manifests, then we have to deal with the manifestation. And the mani- -- the dealing of the manifestation has to be in order. At the first sign of bickering, withdraw; withdraw; withdraw. If you are losing it, if you are arguing, withdraw. Do not engage in worldly arguments. Now that is not to say not to engage in a confrontation in which Christ is in control, but if you cannot tell the difference, tell God you need to know the difference, OK.

But, remember, the bottom line is to stay in order. No matter what happens, stay in order; submit yourself to God; withdraw from bickering; withdraw from character assassination; withdraw from attacks. If you cannot -- if the confrontation is not in Christ, withdraw, OK. God is going to keep us. I bless all of you. [INAUDIBLE] I am sorry.

            [INAUDIBLE] that His mind, the mind of Christ [INAUDIBLE]

Would you put this on the message for us?

            You said this realm of appearance is in the mind of fallen Adam, as we perceive things right now. Before the fall, righteous Adam, how could all the trees and all the animals be upon the Earth before he was even formed, before the mind of Christ was placed in him? Like, it is, sort of, like, putting the cart before the horse.

What makes you think they were all here before the mind of Christ was placed in him?

            Because the Scriptures speak about how the Lord did this on the first day, the second day, the third day, and it was all done until the sixth day when He created man.

OK. That is a good question. I will try to answer it. I think, I should be able to give you some light, although I am sure this is not the ultimate answer. Genesis 2:5, "And every plant of the f-" -- well, let us go back to 4. "These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens, and every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew."

So what does this mean? It means that everything was made in the mind of God. It was an image; it was a thought. The Bible says it was an imagination that took form in the mind of a superior being called the Lord God Jehovah, OK. So everything that you see in the Earth started out as an idea. It -- and because Jehovah is alive, when He has a thought, as far as the Lord is concerned, it already exists. But it is still -- it is alive in the mind of God, and then it goes from His mind, which is the realm of the spirit; it appears in the realm of the soul.

And there is another Scripture, but I -- offhand, I -- it is right here somewhere, but I do not want to take the time for look -- to look for it. It says, "And a shoot appeared," so the whole creation was a living thought in the mind of God, and then, one day, one spiritual day, we do not -- at one point in time, in the soul realm, excuse me, there appeared one shoot, the beginning of the transition of the whole creation, which was in the mind of God, to in- -- into and to appear in the realm of the soul. Can you hear that? OK.

The realm of the soul is not this world; this world is physical. The realm of the soul is mind. It was -- the idea originally was formed in the -- in -- I -- if I said the mind of God, that was a poor choice of words. It was conceived within the Spirit of Jehovah. Jehovah is not a mind; He is a Spirit. Then it transferred into mind, which is the soul realm.

And if you look at the book that we recently published where it has the Alternate Translation of Daniel 8, it says, "And the vision of the Garden of Eden was in Adam's mind," so what am I saying? Let me back up. The creation originally was a thought within the Spirit of God. It then took form in the mind of the soul, which God created, and the nothing man, who was soul, had the authority in Christ to produce an image of a world, which is called the Garden of Eden. Three stages of the appearance of the creation, spirit, soul and image. Do you understand what I am saying? OK.

And this creation is taking, probably, billions of years. Probably, the scientists are very right as to how long it is taking to form this creation. And modern man and the church is stumbling because, yes, the Scripture says one day to God is as a 1,000 years to man, but I suggest to you -- and I would not argue with anyone over this, but you can pray about this if you want, that every one of the six -- seven days -- well, God rested on the seventh day. Every one of the six days of creation was not of equal duration. It was not of equal duration. Let me show you this on the board. I do not want to break her guitar. Rita, I am afraid I am going to knock this over. I do not know whether we will go back to the music or not. I am just trying to [?lead?] into the Spirit, OK.

Now I hope that, if you have a religious spirit -- Celia, are you stepping on that cord, honey?


OK. Anyone that has a religious spirit and feels that you cannot take any information from science, I suggest to you that you put it before the Lord because we can learn from science. I can learn from science --


-- because I do not have all knowledge yet. But I -- what I do have is a mind which is influenced by the mind of Christ, and what does that mean? It means that when I hear something, when I get a piece of information from science or from any other field of knowledge that has come down through the mind of man, the influence of the mind of Christ in my life quickens to me, whether or not it may be true or whether or not it is not likely that it is true. So I have ne- -- I have felt in my heart for many years that the creation is much more than 6,000 years old, but I did not really have -- I mean, I would not argue with anybody about it, but I did not even have anything that I had learned from science to base it on until about six months ago.

God showed me a movie that was made by a physicist. I think, it was on TV, and he explained that our universe is an ever-expanding universe, and it expands not straight up and down. The universe is a cone, and it started at one point. Anybody know the name of the point? What was the name of the point?


No, the universe started.

            Was it the spiritual [?Son?sun?]?

Yes, it was the spiritual [?Son?sun?]. The Scripture says, "And a shoot appeared."

            [?The whole?] universe.


            [?Is that called?] universe, [?you are saying?]?

The universe began with a point, and He is an ever-increasing -- He is the universe. In the beginning was the Word. Without the Word, nothing was made, OK, and the universe is an ever-increasing universe, and it is increasing like this.

            The scientists do not say [INAUDIBLE]

[?Well?], they do not know where the point came from. They claim they do not know where the point came from, OK. So we know here that just about everything the Lord does and everything spiritual can be expressed geometrically; we learned that here. So the geometric form that symbolizes the universe is a cone, so we see that if we divide this expanding universe into days or into segments, we see that day one is smaller than day two, which is smaller than day three because the universe is expanding. Can you see this?

Now I am of the opinion, not being anything near a scientist -- I am sure if we had a scientist here, they could explain this to you better than I am doing right now. I cannot give you the explanation right now, but somehow this must be backwards because -- and we know that the soul realm is always the mirror image of the realm of the spirit because I believe that day one must be the longest day, OK. Day one must be the longest day. That is my opinion. All this remains day two, OK. And, of course, we know that there are seven days. I did not leave enough room on the board to write it. So somehow this has to be reversed. I just do not know how to do it. Does anybody not know what I am talking about? I just do not know how to do it. So each day of the seven days of creation is not of equal duration.

            So you are saying it took longer to make whatever was made on the sixth day. It took longer to make that than it took to make light. Like, light was made the first day. It took longer to make man on the sixth day.

No, I am saying that it should -- in my opinion, it is reversed, that the longest day was the day one. The longest time period was required to make the light, and as we approach the seventh day -- now this t- -- this is -- we are in the sixth day. Man is being made in the sixth day, and, I believe, this is the shortest day.

            The time is getting shorter.

The time is getting shorter. It is speeding up. Knowledge is increasing, that this sixth day is the shortest day. But the seventh day is the day that we will -- no, the se- -- now the seventh day is the day that will have no end, you know. I may have it backwards. I do stumble with this, you know. It is a condition of the carnal mind. Sometimes I get my left and right mixed up --


-- OK, or my soul and spirit mixed up.

            In the natural, light travels very quickly, right? Light is really fast.

Well, maybe I am wrong, you know.

            So I just wondered if that anything to do with it.

No. I could be wrong, you know. Maybe that is why the cone looks this way. Maybe I have it backwards. Maybe day one is the shortest day. I -- it is very possible. I do not know. I know if we had a physicist here and they just heard this little bit that I said, they would be able to clear this up, but you have to bear with me. I am the one that God raised up to teach this.


And I do not have all the knowledge.

            It comes back to the seventh day to Christ. It -- you know, it will be the formation of Christ on the seventh day, which will be the point, right. If it is going from the way you say, six days, and then the seventh day would be down to the point again, right?

[?I do not know?].

            So it will be perhaps --

You are assuming it is a circle, but [UNINTELLIGIBLE] -- this is a cone.

            Oh, I am just saying the --


            OK [CROSSTALK]

            -- first day is -- you are saying is up there, the reverse, right?


            So if you go -- you are going through to the seventh day, you would be right back to the point. Is that the poi- -- is that what would happen?

No. It --

            [?Would it be ?] [CROSSTALK]

Yeah, no. It does not work like that. I am in over my head, so I am not going to go any further. I cannot do any more for you than I am doing with this geometry, but I will tell you this, that I just may be wrong, you know. It is very possible that the first day is the shortest day, but it -- what I would like to point out to you before we go on is this cone. Please, look at the formation of the cone. This is the top of the cone, and, of course, this cone is typifying the black hole or the pit that creation fell into. The Scripture calls it the b- -- the abyss. It says, "And darkness was on the face of the deep," or the abyss. Darkness lay on the surface. Water was in the pit, and light appeared, and the darkness that was on top of the cone fell down into the cone and polluted the water. The water of the soul realm was polluted by the darkness that was on the surface. The darkness got inside, so this is -- these are some of the things the Lord has been showing us. But to answer your question, OK -- did I answer your question? OK.

Everything that starts with the mind of God, everything that starts with spirit has to work its way out into the visible world. And if you ever get around to listening to the Revelation messages, you will see that that point is really hit home in the Revelation messages and that a lot of those Scriptures in Revelation that sound like they are being repeated, what is really happening is that the Lord is saying this is how it started. It started in the realm of the spirit. It started in the consciousness. I do not want to say the mind of God, so I will say it started in the consciousness of God, and the next stage was that it ap- -- God's idea or God's imagination appeared in the mind which is in the soul, which is in man, OK.

And we do not find too many Scriptures that speak about that image of this world or of this body. There are very few Scriptures that deal with the body or with this world because this world is just an -- it is not real. It is only real to us because we are trapped down here, but it is a shadow; it is not real. So most of the -- most -- especially when you get into deep spiritual things, the Scripture is either speaking about the event which is originating in spirit or the event which is now appearing in the soul. It very rarely speaks about this outer realm, very rare.

            I thought God was spirit and mind by your definition.

By my definition, yes, God is mind that is appearing in the soul. Mind is the appearance of God in the soul.

            [INAUDIBLE] He has no mind?

No, I am sure that He has a mind, but I am trying -- He has a thought process, OK. By our definition of mind, He does not have a mind. What do you mean by mind? You probably mean, Sheila, are you saying God does not think? That is what you are saying, OK. No, God thinks, but, by definition, mind is the offspring of the union of spirit and soul, and that mind lives in the soul, OK. So mind is the Son and Spirit is the Father, and they are in two different places that are opposite one another. Let me put that on the board for you.

Spirit and soul are opposite one another. They are opposite one another; they are confronting one another; they are facing one another. Soul is the mirror image of what is in here. The truth is in the spirit, and it is invisible, but when it projects outward, an image of it appears. God thinks man, and in the soul realm we have a man. You see, this is how angels and demons, probably billions of them, fit inside of us, inside of our small little head, because spirit is just thought. But when that spirit penetrates outward into the soul, an image appears. Yeah?

            Do you know how we us- -- we pray a prayer for God to send his angels to watch over us and keep a hedge around us and protect us. If they are really within the spirit of us, then why do we pray as if we are praying for them on the outside to protect us from outside things?

Because we do not know the truth, but God honors our prayers. You see, God does not say to us, now, you fool, there is no angel outside of you; it is only inside of you. So, therefore, I am not God the answer your prayer. God does not do that. He says, I -- God says, I honor your faith. You do not understand these spiritual things. I hear that you are asking for protection, and therefore I will protect you even though you are all mixed up as to where your protection is coming from. I am still going to protect you. And the angels are Christ wherever He is appearing. So when God sends angels to protect us, what He is doing is He is stirring up Christ in the faithful everywhere to pray for you. Did you ever pray for someone and not know what you are praying for? Did you ever -- did the Spirit ever move upon you to pray in tongues and you have no idea what for?


Well, it may not be for you. God may be stirring up Christ in you to pray for someone who is crying out for God on the other side of the world. That is who the angels are. Believe it or not, that is who the angels are, Christ in the people.


Yeah. Can you just hold it one minute? Did I answer your question?

            I just have one more comment.


            Usually, you know, we pray, like, send your warring angels with a -- with flaming swords, and also the Bible talks of Michael and Gabriel, and it -- being that there is a Michael and Gabriel, I thought maybe that there were angels other than Christ.

If you recall the teaching this morning, that as the Spirit of Jehovah changes its function or changes the place where He is manifesting, He changes His name. He is Jehovah in the pure realm of the spirit. He is the Spirit of Christ when He enters into the mind of a man. He is Christ Jesus when He is a mind formed in the man. Well, in the same manner, Gabriel and Michael are both Christ in different functions. Gabriel is Christ the messenger, OK. Michael is Christ the warrior, OK, and all of humanity and the church who are not in full stature are Christ Jesus, the second generation, not quite a full-grown man. So we see that the Lord Jesus Christ, manifesting sometimes as Gabriel and sometimes as Michael, is the head angel or the archangel, and all of us in whom Christ is being raised up from seed, we are the angels that are responsible to the archangel. You do not have to believe it, but do you understand what I said?

            Yeah, I understand it.

OK. You do not have to believe it. Praise the Lord.

            [CROSSTALK] on this subject. You just said that that is how thousands of angels or demons or whatever could fit inside of us, so there must be something more.

OK. This doctrine that is coming forth is so hair-splitting. Sometimes I do not express myself exactly right, OK, so let me say that again. Christ is not divided, OK.

            All right.

Christ is not divided, so, technically speaking, Christ Jesus being raised up in all of us is only one Christ Jesus, but the fact remains that He is manifesting through you, and He is manifesting through me. So in this temporary condition of our immaturity, there are many angels, Christ in you and Christ in me and Christ in everybody else, but the end of it all will be the Christ will be undivided, and God is reconciling the whole creation into one manifestation of a unified Christ. Can you hear that?

            Yeah. I just got a revelation when you said that, and it always confirms it with a Scripture. Is that why Paul said to entertain strangers because you could be entertaining angels unaware?

Yes. OK, now the demons are divided. The carnal mind is divided, but -- so in our -- within us is the Christ Jesus that is being raised up in us, and when -- we had a whole teaching this morning. God gave a demonstration this morning of the ability in Christ to perceive other people's thoughts. Did you realize what He did this morning, that He demonstrated that it is true, that in Christ we know what other people are thinking? Did you understand that? OK. So when we are in Christ [UNINTELLIGIBLE] -- we had a negative thought this morning. It was the carnal mind, but sometimes maybe I would hear a communication from a son, OK. So that means, if Mary is praying in Christ and I hear her prayer, that means Christ Jesus m- -- the angel in me is in me, and the angel that is in Mary is in me because I am hearing her prayer. And sometimes I feel people's feelings, so that means her angel is in her, and her angel is in me. We are all mixed up in the realm of the spirit. Can you hear that?

            I hear it.

OK. Yet everybody does have their own individual demons, OK, because the demons are the product of an incestuous union between our carnal mind and our human spirit, OK, so we do have our own personal demons. And we do have our own manifestation of the carnal mind, the -- Satan is divided, definitely. Nevertheless, in this same manner, when I become spiritual enough, this morning, I perceived someone else's carnal mind. I do not particularly think that was a demon this morning. I think, we perceived that woman's --


Yeah. We perceived her carnal mind. It was her whole personality that was condemning us here. It was not -- that was not a demon, and it was not cast-out-able, you see. If that problem that we confronted this morning was a demon that could be cast out, there really would have been no reason to execute judgment. We would have just cast it out.


OK, but that was not a demon. That was the whole personality of this woman, and God determined that she would be rebuked, that she might live and not die.

            And it was a specific thought [CROSSTALK]

It was a spec- -- yes, it was a specific thought, but --


-- a thought only becomes a demon when it basically separates out from your personality at large. Maybe it is an unconscious thought. Maybe you are not aware of it. I do not have all the details, but this -- what we dealt with this morning, it was probably more than a thought. I think, it was a prayer. I think, it was. It was too strong. It was a s- -- I think, prayers have been going out, you know, to bring correction. It was just too strong, OK. But the lines are very fine when I tell you it is a demon, it is a personality, it is a carnal mind. The lines are very fine, and I do not really have it down 100 percent pat myself, so you are going to have to roll with me.

            If Jesus is obt- -- if Jesus obtained a better name than the angels, OK, and He is over the angels and then man is created lower than the angels, who are the angels?

OK. Jesus is the archangel. He is the Lord Jesus Christ who overcame the world and is glorified. Everyone in whom Christ is being formed, Christ are the angels, and man is the soul, which we are. We are soul and spirit. We are soul, and Christ, the mind of Christ, is the angel, and the soul is our emotions. It is just like saying you are a man who has a heart and lungs and a liver, but I do not say Jimmy Liver or Jimmy Heart. You are just one man, but for the purposes of understanding, the Lord is breaking down our spiritual nature and saying you are spirit; you are soul; you are mind, OK. D- -- I did not answer your question?

            No, you did. I was just going to say, [?well, then?] the sons are angels then.


            And the ones that are -- do not have the Son in them are just men.

No, they are evil angels.

            They are evil.

They are evil angels, Revelation 12, amen. The spiritual man is an angel. If your spiritual man is operating out of your carnal mind, you are an evil angel, and if your spiritual man is operating out of Christ, you are a good angel. Everybody's spiritual man is an angel. We are both spirit and soul, or, more accurately speaking, mor- -- we are mind and soul. If Chri- -- if the -- if our mind is Christ, then the spirit of Christ, which is spirit, dwells within us, and we are truly spirit, soul and mind. But if our mind is carnal, the spirit in the mind -- the spirit in the carnal mind is Satan, which is really soul. She is really not a spirit, Satan; she is a liar. So if all we have is the carnal mind, we are mind and soul. If we have the mind of Christ, we are spirit, soul and mind, OK. Everybody OK?


See, if we are just soul, we are lacking. You have a question?

            There have been times that I -- when I said to the children, the grandchildren, when they were leaving, I said, put the -- I will put the angels around your car as you are going back home. Is that wrong to say it in that sense, or should I -- is there one angel, or is there more than one angel?

Well, that is a nice thing to say to children. It gives them peace. But if you would like to be more accurate, I think, a more accurate -- you see, I do not think that offends the Lord. I do not think it offends Him, and it is nice for children. But a more accurate prayer -- because that really was a prayer. You were praying for their safety. A more accurate prayer is Godspeed. May the Lord Jesus Christ and all His heavenly hosts accompany on your way home. Do you kno- --

            [?Who is the?] heavenly host?

The heavenly host is the Christ in everyone that He is manifesting. You see, this is a great mystery, but the Christ in you and the Christ in me has activities that we do not know about. He has spiritual activities. He is rooted in our soul, and He has activities that are independent of our awareness.

            So are you telling me that -- and He is not trapped inside this body?

No, He is not.

            Oh, I thought [CROSSTALK]

He is not. He is rooted in this personality. His roots are here, but both Christ and the carnal mind -- well, the carnal mind, depending on how much witchcraft is in your heredity and Christ, depending on how mature He is, has a life that we cannot see. And I have heard several testimonies just recently that I shared with you. I will tell you them again. One man, he was ministering somewhere in the Middle East where Christians are not at all welcome, and he was being rejected by Muslims, severely, in the Middle East. [?Over?] one month, two Muslim men of great renowned converted and came to him with this testimony that they were driving their car down an Arabic street, and he materialized on the seat. This minister, this pastor, Christian pastor, materialized on the seat next to them and said whatever he said, but the man had such a profound spiritual experience that it resulted in his conversion. So he called up the minister to talk to him about it, and the minister had no idea whatsoever of what the man was talking about.

So the question is what was the nature of this spiritual experience by which this pastor materialized on the front seat of a car next to this Muslim who was resisting the Lord? Who was it? What was it? Was it some angel from outside in the world who just decided to take the form of this pastor? Is that what happened? I suggest to you no.

            That does not make sense.

No. I suggest to you that this pastor had a spiritual gift because I doubted that it was the imparted anointing based on what I heard about the man. Well, if it was the imparted anointing, the man would have been aware of it. As we mature in the Son, we will ha- -- be having experiences where we will be materializing to minister to people and to help them and the teach them. We will be out of our body, and it will be our soul man materializing, looking just like our body, and we will know about it because the Father tells the Son everything that He is doing, but the servant, He does not tell, OK. So, I believe, it was the -- it was a manifestation of God. I cannot get into the details right now, whether it was Christ or [UNINTELLIGIBLE] -- but it was a manifestation of Jesus Christ coming out of the heart of this minister who was serving God full-time, who had given his life to God. This manifestation of the life of God in him vibrated of his mind and did this supernatural act which resulted in a conversion of a resistant Muslim without this minister's having any knowledge of it whatsoever.

            Is that -- does the person have to have the Holy Ghost to do that?

I do not know. My opinion is I would think so, but I do not know. I would think so.

            So what does this do to the whole teaching that Christ is trapped in humanity? [CROSSTALK]

Christ is not trapped.

            But, I mean, the human spirit -- well, you know, [?when?] you said --

The dead human spirit is trapped in humanity.

            [CROSSTALK] trapped [CROSSTALK]

Oh, this would have to be a [?quicken?].


That He has to have these experiences that are not lovely. Well, the only -- I would really have to think about what you are saying. The only thing that is coming to me right now is this, that what you are talking about is Christ rising from the dead --


-- in an imparted sense, permanently rising from the dead and taking dominion over the whole creation. This experience of this man's soul materializing without his knowledge is an impart experience of an immature Christ who is in humanity but has not completely risen from the dead yet. We call it an imputed anointing.

            [?But you said?] Christ can leave at will [CROSSTALK]

It depends. When the Christ that is not fully mature is imparted yet not in full stature, He has to be at a particular level of maturity to do that, OK. But there is such a thing as a gift. Everything that the imparted Christ can do when He matures to that stage we see appearing in other men as a gift, where they do not have to be mature to have that experience. My opinion is that this was a gift in this man, that God gave Him -- why? Because God wanted to do this work through him. He did not even know about it. He did not even know it was happening.

            But still is that not a great honor to be used like that?

I would think so. Yes, it is a great honor.

            [?It was?] a gift.

Yes. Anything that God gives you is a great honor. Anything --

            [CROSSTALK] I wish that would happen. I wish that would [?happen?] [INAUDIBLE] I do not know why it has not happened with us, with [INAUDIBLE] where we are and all we have experienced and all we have learned. How come we do not have this experience?

Because the gifts are dying in us. The gifts are fading away, and there is an in-between wilderness experience where the gifts w- -- where the gifts are less and less. But in due season, the reality will be here, and we will be doing that --


-- with knowledge. We will be doing that with awareness.

            What about the men that agreed to go somewhere and knew that they went somewhere for five weeks but then come back in their body, and they have -- and they went out of the realm of time and everything, and they knew that they went? Did they have an imparted Christ that -- in them at that time? How did they do that and know it?

I really cannot answer your question except to say that the Lord can do anything that He wants. The Lord can do anything that He wants. It is possible, I guess. If -- I have not heard testimonies like that. If you have heard testimonies like that, then, I guess, it is possible to have an experience as a result of a gift which God lets you remember. He can do anything that He wants, but the difference between the gift -- the major difference between the gift and the imparted anointing -- the gift and the state of being, the major difference is that when you have an imparted anointing which is so mature that you could do this, you can do it at will. You do it at will. If it is a gift, you only go when you are sent, OK. That is the major difference. I cannot heal you unless healing flows through me, so in f- -- insofar as the area of healing, my anointing is still imputed. I cannot decide whether or not to heal you. My state of being is not healing. When you touch me, you do not automatically get healed. See, when Jesus --


When they touched Him, he got healed, right. The anointing was His state of being, OK. Now this anointing is within me, but it is not mature enough that when you touch me you can believe that you are healed. I do not have that. I have -- you have to ask permission. God has to agree to do it.


I am still under tutors and governors. I do not make these decisions. Nevertheless, on another level, on an impart level, if you touch me with your heart, you can get healed. If you dare to get -- I -- there is a lot of fire in me, you know. If you dare to get close enough to me, sometimes you get burnt, but if you dare to get close enough to me, the Christ in me could touch you. You could touch Him, and although it -- the result will not be similar to what happened to Jesus. First of all, the woman's physical body was healed, and, second of all, she was healed instantly.

What is happening in this hour -- and it is happening here, and it is happening in my life. Whether it is happening in your life or not, I do not know. You have to ask God, but it is happening in my life. If you get close enough to me, the anointing that is on me will get on you. If you dare -- OK, just one second. If you dare to abide the fire because it burns when you get close to me, it -- your sins are exposed; you get burnt. And depending on how rebellious and proud you are, it could be very painful being close to me because I do not take dishonesty, and I do not take disorderliness, and I do not take sin from people. You cannot play games with me. I am going to tell you right off in righteousness. Do not play games with me. Let your yea be yea, and let your nay be nay. Say what you are thinking; do not beat around the bush with me.

So I am a very hard person to be around. If you are a person who is passive who does not communicate well, who is -- who cannot assert themselves, I am -- it is going to be painful being around me. But the result of the relationship will be that you will mature, and you will cease from being -- these are not godly qualities, to be passive and negative and indirect, you know. So --


-- if you can hear what I am saying, the fruit of our relationship is not instant, and it may or may not be physical, depending on the Lord. But everyone that has ever hung around me for any length of time has matured and shown tremendous amounts of fruit. So that is a sign that Christ is in me to a measure. I am not in full stature, but He is in there. There is life in me, and if you touch me long enough and hard enough and consistently enough, that -- the seed of that life will get on you, and I believe that with all my heart, if you can bear the stress of it. Yeah. I am sorry to do this, but --


-- we need you on the message.

            Oh, because this was [INAUDIBLE]


            I do not know. The way you said that, I am just asking you, do -- I thought that -- see, I do not want to say that. I feel that is pri- -- that is a proud statement. It is -- I do not know. Are we allowed to do that? I mean --

To do what?

            To speak that we have what you are able to do what you did and if people are around you? You know, you were talking about yourself a lot there, and it just seemed to me that -- you see, nothing that -- it is -- you see, I do not want to -- I did not want to put this on a microphone. It is nothing that you have. It is only Jesus that does it, so all the glory goes to Jesus. Do you believe that?


            Because it just seemed, the way you were saying it, if anyone else heard that, they would think that you was lifting yourself up, that you were being puffed up.

OK. This is the difference between the Son and the servant, you see. Pride is a spirit. If you are speaking the truth, you cannot be in pride. Either the spirit is Christ, or the spirit is truth. And in this area of my life, I am Christ. I am becoming Christ, and one day I will be 100 percent Christ. So to say to you that if you hang around me long enough, what is in me will get on you, that is the truth. It is the truth, and the truth cannot be pride because pride is a lie. See, He is me, and I am Him, but not -- we are not completely joined yet, and it is nothing that I do. If you have a relationship with me, it is going to rub off on you, and that is the truth, and it will be a good rubbing off if you can abide the fire. That is the truth.

            [CROSSTALK] Nigeria [INAUDIBLE]

Yeah. That is the truth.

            Oh, boy.

It is the truth.


You see, Christ is a dynamo.

            [INAUDIBLE] I have experienced it. I have to say it is true.

It is true.

            And this is why I go in and out because I go in, and I get so far, and the fire burns me hard enough until I finally just manifest, and I cannot take it anymore. And then I go back [CROSSTALK]

            It just seems like you are the only one that h- -- and that there is no one else in the world that has this measure of Christ.

Did I say that?

            No, you did not. But the way you say things through this ministry and how God is going to do it through this firstfruits company and like it is all here. [INAUDIBLE]

Well, it may be someplace else. If you listen to all the messages, you will hear me say that, that it may be someplace else. I do not know anyone else right now. I really do not, but it very well may be someplace else. But if it is not anyplace else, it will be. It is going to the whole world.  And what is happening to you, and I told you this yesterday, is that the authority which is in Christ is intimidating you, OK.

Now let me clarify something else for you. If I were to say, if you come here, I can heal you, OK, that would be pride, but I am not saying that. What I am saying is that my state of being is moving into Christ to such a measure that, if you hang around me, that Christ in me will affect you. That is what I said, that it is not a gift, but it is that part of me, which is becoming Christ, will affect you, and that is true. And people's carnal minds get very upset over that because they do not want to be corrected, and they do not want the fire, and they do not want to be shown up for what they are, but it is the truth. So you pray about that, OK.

See, now you cannot expect someone that God has raised up as a leader to go around making themselves weak. What would you do with a weak leader? What would -- why would you even want to be around me if it did not change your life? You should not want to be here if it did not change your life. And if it is true that being around me is changing your life, why cannot I talk about it? Because it is threatening you. That is why.

            [INAUDIBLE] the apostles or with Jesus because so much [INAUDIBLE]

Definitely. And remember that Jesus works -- or that the Lord Jehovah is increasing His kingdom, is magnifying His kingdom, through cuttings. He is increasing Himself by first raising up one leader and then having other people cleave unto that leader, and, eventually, it has to be rising up all over the world. But why cannot I say to you I do not know any other place like this? It may be there, but I do not know them. That is the truth. Why cannot I say that? Why do I have to lie about it and hide about it and make myself some weak lily-livered person? The apostles of God are strong, OK. So the authority is very -- the authority which is in Christ is very threatening to the carnal mind, and that is what you are up against right now, and the carnal mind wants to bring it down. Praise God. Jesus.

You did not offend me, but you stand s- -- consider yourself corrected, OK. It is -- you ha- -- feel free to be honest, and if it was on your heart, you are free to express yourself here, you know. But you were manifesting, OK, and I responded to your manifestation. You were manifesting pride, as a matter of fact. You were manifesting what you accused me of, OK. Does anybody -- is there anybody here, OK, that would like to contribute to this conversation? If God has something for you to say to Jimmy, please say it so that there would be a second witness for him. Anybody here? Would anybody like to expound on a discernment of what you discerned in him or what you perceived in him or what you thought of this event? Would anybody like to speak?

            A couple of things. First of all, I think, I have gone through the same thing that Jimmy has gone through. You know, at one time we thought that, and, we would -- you know, we just had to get it rebuked and praise God.


            Then the other thing was, is not it something? God just really just came out with pride when she got the word, and here it is, right away, manifesting?


            Very good, Celia.

[INAUDIBLE] is it on?

            [?It is still on?].

            Glory to God.

Is it on? [CROSSTALK]

            It is on, yeah.

[INAUDIBLE] anybody else have anything to say?

            I saw a little bit of anger from L- -- like, it was like something just rolling up from Leviathan, you know.                 

            [?I will?] confess, but [?I just?] --


            -- [?discerned it?] myself.     


            All right.

            I -- to be honest, I became jealous.


            Oh, OK.

Praise God.

            I was jealous because, you know -- that you have this authority, and I am not really there, at this point of my life, and I w- -- I wanted it, and I coveted it.

You will get it [CROSSTALK] everybody, you see. Can I have that microphone back, please? Praise God. Congratulations. God bless you for being able to confess that.


God bless you, yes. You see --

            May we all confess of our jealousies like that.

Yes, hallelujah.


I had something really positive to say to you, and Satan stole it right out of my mind. I just -- put that off.

You see, Bill Britton, who was, as far as I know, the first preacher to pu- -- really go out and preach this sonship message and print all the literature that he printed, was continuously accused of having a false doctrine because he was misunderstood to be saying that this power and authority to the believer is just for a few. And I even read some letters that were written to him, which were in a very wrong spirit saying, who do you think you are that this power and authority is for you and not for anybody else? And Bill Britton, who is a very humble man, if you ever have read his writings, a very humble man, he wrote back, and he said, brother, it is for everybody. And I say unto you, what is on me, it is for you too. It is for everybody, but, you see, you cannot tell me or anyone that has it that I have to wait for you to get it for me to have it. Each man in his own order, OK, but it is for everybody. It is for you too. That is what you are doing here, that this authority should be raised up in you also.

Now how could I teach you? If God has made a judgment that He wants to give you this kind of authority through a -- as a cutting through me, OK, it is already in me, and He wants it to be grafted into you, OK, how is He going to do it if I do not have the authority? So that means, for a season, you have to sit on your pride and abide the fact that I have the authority, and you do not until it appears in you too, OK.

            [?Praise?] [INAUDIBLE]

Praise the Lord. So -- but that was wonderful that you could confess that. I really admire you --


-- and bless you for it. That was wonderful. That is how we are going to make it, OK. That is how we are going to make it, and that was very brave doing that in front of a whole group. It is not easy, but God will bless you for it, and, believe me, He wants us to be manifesting authority more than we want it because the truth of the matter is that we want it for selfish purposes because our carnal mind wants to have power and authority --

            And it wants to be glorified.

-- and wants to be glorified. But the truth is that this kind of power and authority will not appear in you until He breaks the pride of man and the witchcraft power of the saints, you see. So when you -- in your heart, when you desire it and I say so be it unto you, watch out because severe --


-- correction is already upon you.


Praise the Lord, right.

            -- judgment falls, right.

            But [?if it corrects?], you are a son.


            Well, you know, it --

Praise the Lord.

            Within me --

Just talk into it loud.

            It is within me. I know, but whenever I try to manifest it outwardly, everyone around me shoots me down, you know.

Well, that is what you just tried to do to me, but you failed.

            When you are trying to minister to --


            -- somebody else upstate or something, you get shot down.


OK. This is what happens. Wherever the true authority of Christ is appearing, the carnal minds of men will try to kill Him, OK. Now I hear that a lot from someone who goes to --


-- who comes to this ministry. I hear that a lot. They are not acknowledging my authority. They are trying to control me. Every -- not necessarily people here, people [?in the?] -- yeah.


You are the one that says it.

            -- shot down all the time [CROSSTALK]

All the time, OK. People in the supermarket --  -- yeah.


You are the one that says it.

            -- shot down all the time [CROSSTALK]

All the time, OK. People in the supermarket --


-- you know, people in the diner. And I tell Rita all the time, and I tell you if you have the ears to hear it, if you can believe me, I am telling you the truth, that I went through the same thing, that I was absolutely crushed before the moth. As Christ -- at the time in my life when Christ was much less mature than I am now, the carnal mind perceives you and rises up to kill the Christ in you before you get any stronger. And I was being killed, and it was a severe trial that went on for years with me, and little by little, the Lord told me and taught me how to take the victory without sinning, you see.

I did not receive the attack that came from you, but I corrected you in Christ. Now, listen, I corrected you in Christ, and that means that you will experience growth from this. Now if I had manifested the carnal mind towards you, it would have been death to you and sin unto me. So we must all learn how to come against the attack of the carnal mind in righteousness, in a righteous correction, and righteous correction is in truth, you see, and it is not in softness or in weakness. Yes?

            I have to stress that this is probably going to happen not only with me but with a lot of others growing up because we are -- it is po- -- I believe, it is going to be possible that a lot of people are going to get jealous and envious of each other as we are growing up.

Well, the Scripture says that they offered up Jesus for envy, and this is absolutely true, and this is the major reason or one of the major reasons why, until we are stronger, our groups are so small. I believe, I mentioned this this weekend also, and we had it in the message today. The carnal minds of the sons of God, which are laced with pride and witchcraft, are so powerful, especially when they are in large numbers, that they can severely damage a son who is not in full stature. And I -- there is not a doubt in my mind that one of the major reasons, if not the major reason, why this ministry is still so small is that I must be prepared to handle the onslaught before God will let it come against me, and that is the truth.

And I want to tell you that, when God gives you authority, you have to rule, and you have to stay on top of people's carnal minds in righteousness. And the biggest problem is that most people do not know what they are doing. They do not know what they are doing. They do not know that they are manifesting towards you. They do not know that they are hurting you. They are just being what they are, but you must be what you are, a son of God. And you are here to manifest righteousness, and you are here to bring correction in righteousness so that they too might come up to where you are. The Scripture clearly states, if you do not beat your child, you hate him. And if this is truly Christ manifesting in me and I did not correct you, I would have hated you and [?have had?] to answer to God.

I will tell you a funny story, brethren, you know. Rita has trouble believing it, that there was a time when I was overrun all the time by the carnal minds of men. Because, right now, I -- to her and maybe to you, I appear very strong, but I know I am not strong enough until I am in full stature. I know that, but, I guess, I appear very strong to you, but I was not always this strong. It is a continuous growth. When I first started up this ministry, when God first gave me this ministry, I was so a- -- naïve in this area as to the wickedness that are in the hearts of men, I thought everybody in the group was my friend. Well, you are my friend. You have to understand that there is a separation between the person and their carnal mind until that person is completely given over to their carnal mind. I was very naïve. I did not know that it is very common for congregations to rise up against the pastor and blaspheme them and condemn them. And if they could do it, they would kick them out. I have heard accounts of congregations rising up and firing a pastor in a denomination and things like that. Congregations do not appoint the pastor; the Lord appoints the pastor. But in a denomination, the congregation and the people in the congregation that have the money sometimes pull all the strings, but that is not a church raised up by Christ.

Well, I did not know anything like this. I was very naïve. I had no training. I did not train under a pastor. God just raised me up out of nowhere, and I have learned on the go. Everything He has taught me, I have learned on the go. Well, I had no idea to know that I had to watch out for the carnal minds of the members of my congregation. All I knew was that I was half dead. I was working a full-time job in Manhattan, traveling five hours a day and sacrificing my whole life to study and teach for no -- there was no financial remuneration at all, and the -- and I was just being obedient to God. I had no idea that I had to watch out for the carnal minds of people.

Well, one of the members of my congregation came to visit me here, had a very nice smile on his face, and his voice was very soft, and I thought he was my friend. And he sat down on that couch, and he came to tell me for my -- that, for my own good, he came to tell me that I was severe -- manifesting a severe manifestation of pride and mind control and that I was abusing the whole group and that I was making them afraid, and he had a few other nice things to tell me, and he finally left. He stayed for an hour, completely rebuked me and put me in my place, and he left, and I fell apart. I was so upset I did not know what to do.

But at the time, I still had a relationship with that church over there, and I went running over there for deliverance, and I got deliverance. And when I came back, the Lord told me what had happened, that I had been attacked by the carnal mind of one of the most prominent members of my congregation and that none of it was true, that, in fact, everything that he had told me was true of himself and that he was manifesting a strong jezebel spirit and trying to control me. Try- -- there is always someone trying to control the pastor.

Now if there is not an individual trying to control, who is completely given over to attempting to control the pastor, there are aspects of people's personalities that are always trying to control the pastor. It is a part of our fallen condition that, if we do not have hold of that aspect of our carnal mind, it will try to control the one in whom Christ is ruling. That is the way it is. What goes up must come down. The sun rises in the east; it goes down in the west. The mind of Christ appears; the Son of God appears. Wherever there is a carnal mind who is not under the control of Christ, jezebel will rise up out of that carnal mind and try to control the pastor.

Now you -- every one of you, including me, has to get our carnal mind and our jezebel and our rebellion under control. So when you have someone in your congregation that does not have their jezebel under control, the person, most of the time, does not know what they are doing, but jezebel is rising up to control the pastor. So I had to repent because I, Christ in me, had submitted to this spirit of jezebel in the congregation. I was brand new; I had no training whatsoever to run a ministry. And the Lord gave me a message for them, and that was the first time I ever rebuked a congregation. And I went into the next meeting, and I preached the message that God gave me, and I rebuked them all, and they all were squirming in their seats. And the Lord made it right because I repented, and I did what He told me.

And I had to learn that, in a position of leadership, you must maintain your position, or that carnal mind will rise up and strip your clothes off and send you packing. And you will lose everything that you have in Christ, but even worse than that, you will be found an unfaithful servant before the Lord. You lose your ministry. That is like a policeman having his gun taken away from him.


You have to rule, and I want to tell every one of you here, if you yield to something in you that will not respect me, OK, you will not be respected when God brings you into your ministry. I tell you the truth. Now that is not forever. But if there are moments that you have disrespected me, and whether I am right or wrong has nothing to do with it, when you come into your ministry, expect to experience disrespect. Do you hear me? I am telling you this is how it works. I am telling you the truth.


I am telling you the truth. Absolutely, and you could ask Rita; she has disrespected me, walked out of here and been disrespected within two hours. Is that true?



Absolutely true. Everything she does to me --

            [?It is the truth?].

-- in less than 24 hours --


-- it happens to her, sometimes in two or three hours. She calls me up or comes in the house, ah! What is the matter? Rita, you just did that to me. Oh, yeah. You just did that same thing to me.

            You just said before, if you do not beat your son, you hate him, [?in a?] spiritual thing, that you are to beat our carnal minds but not beat physically.


            Remember the part in the Old Testament, he took part of somebody's hair and banged it against the wall or something like that, physical things?

No. It is a spiritual whipping.


It is -- it -- and even that, please, I -- well, let me put this on the message, that no one should misunderstand my word. It is a spiritual whipping. It is a rising up of Christ to put down the attack because that was an attack, OK. That wa- -- now, you see, for the carnal mind to attack, it does not have to be yelling, it does not have to be shouting, it does not have to be physical, but it is a spiritual attack that was challenging the authority that the Lord gave me, OK. It was an attack, OK. If you do not put down the attack -- if I did not put down the attack, as far as God was concerned, His blood is on my hands. Every thing, every unpleasant thing that he would reap for his sin against me would be my fault because right now I have just forgiven his sins, you see. I rebuked him; I showed him the error of his ways. The Lord confirmed it to him, and he confessed what it was, and now there is really no reason for him to go out and have some kind of an unpleasant judgment fall upon him because I executed the judgment on him, a gentle judgment in mercy. If I did not do it, he would have come up against something much more painful in the world, and that is the way it works.

It is the same thing I told my daughter all the time, and I tell mothers and fathers all the time. Beat your children; paddle your children; correct your children because if you do not do it when they are young and under your authority, God will do it with a spiritual whipping when they are adults, and the spiritual whipping is much more painful than anything a child can experience at the hands of a loving parent who is going to hug them and kiss them after the discipline is all over. The spiritual whipping is very painful. So even you, you are all sons. You have people under you. Whoever God sends you to, if you bring the correction right on the spot and if God witnesses it and the person repents, you have saved that person from some unpleasant experience that could be hurtful to them.

And this is the righteousness which is in Christ, and we are here to correct the world, and the world does not like it. Just as in this message that we are preaching, in "Elijah the Man," Israel does not want their sins exposed. They do not want to give up their idols, and neither do they want to be told what to do or corrected by anyone who calls himself a son of God. We will not have this man to rule over us, so you be weak, and you sit down, and you do not tell me the truth, and you let me do whatever I want, and that is what the carnal mind is saying. And I tell you --


-- the truth. Look at what Herod did to John the Baptist, and you can -- it -- you can almost predict it to a tee that whatever a carnal mind is accusing you of, that that is what they are manifesting. If they are accusing you of envy, they are envious. If they are accusing you of pride, they are proud. If they are accusing you of control, they are trying to control you. It is the condition of the fallen mind, and we, the sons of God, are called to bring this correction to all of humanity. And as we bring the correction and as the people respond to the correction, they will be absorbed into the sons of God’s company until everyone upon the Earth is a son of God. And when there is no one left to correct, we will all be glorified. So there is no elite class in heaven; there is a caste or a class structure in heaven, temporarily, because God has an order. He has generals, and He has captains, and He has lieutenants, and He has privates only until the whole creation has matured and Christ is appearing in the whole. It is a temporary, transitional government, but it is very real.

And [?the?] reason we have not seen much of it in the church to date is that God's government is based upon righteousness and holiness, and for someone to manifest true authority in Christ, they themselves must be under judgment for sin. I tell you the truth. If you are not looking upon your own sins and confessing them and dealing with them and if you have not proc- -- moved in this procedure to a large measure, the Lord is not sending you to correct anybody; He is not. You may be correcting people, and it is not Christ. But if it is truly Christ in you bringing this correction, which correction results in the life of Christ being imparted to the other person, for you to be in that office, you must be deeply engaged in the judgment of your own soul. Christ does not send sin-filled people to point out sin in other people. Christ does not send someone filled with pride to point out pride in somebody else. You see, for me to have said to you that was pride, and envy is under pride. Pride is a [INAUDIBLE] [AUDIO CUTS OUT]

[INAUDIBLE] it was pride manifesting in me, whether it was or not [AUDIO CUTS OUT] [INAUDIBLE] judgment would have fallen on the two of us. God [?is not to send?] [AUDIO CUTS OUT] filled with pride to correct someone who is manifesting pride. He does not do it. He sends the person who is overcome in a particular area, not parti- -- not necessarily completely free, but at least has a grip on that sin in them, that every time that sin tries to manifest, they are beating it up. He will send someone like that to someone with pride and say, I have overcome it, and, therefore, I am qualified to tell you that that is pride in you. So that is why we see such a mild manifestation [?of?] correction in the church today because most of the fivefold ministry has never been under judgment. They are just as filled with sin as the people in the congregation.

So they teach, and they w- -- they teach, basically; that is what the ministry today does. Whatever message God is -- gives them, they teach on faith. Their teaching is valuable. It is not the hidden manna, but it is valuable. They teach on faith in God; they teach on righteousness; they teach the gospel of the cross. The fivefold ministry today is valuable, but there is very little correction coming forth because they are not qualified. Their judgment has not been accomplished or even begun, and God is too righteous to send an unrighteous man to judge you; He will not do it.

Now if you are having a problem, if someone is deep in sin and that sin is really contaminating their life, God will raise up someone of great faith and give them a temporary cloak of righteousness and send them to you to point out a sin. It is possible because God loves you so much that He wants you to know what you are doing wrong, but it would be an isolated incident. We talked about this earlier, in the category of a gift. But to be in a condition which the Son is in, which is rising in me, and I keep telling you I do not, at any time, that I am not in full stature. But what you are seeing in me, what is arising in me is a state of being which corrects sin because of the measure to which I have already judged my own soul. I do not need a cloak of righteousness; righteousness is upon me. Can you hear it? OK.

            In the Scripture where Paul says, "Follow me, and I follow Christ," now in the light that we are learning that all the Scriptures that we think we had an understanding of, we really do not, is there something deeper behind that? Were they saying f- -- was Paul saying follow me as I walk in my flesh, or was he talking about doctrines?

I do not think he meant doctrine, although doctrine would be included. I think, he was saying, so long as Christ is manifesting through me, follow me, and I say the same thing to you. As long as Christ is my head, follow me, but when Christ stops being my head, run for the hills. Now that does not mean if I do one thing wrong or if I have one lapse or one bad moment because I can do something wrong, and I can have a lapse, and Christ could still be my head. So do not look at my sins; do not look at my mistakes, but continuously try the spirit, and ask the Lord if He is still my head. And so long as Christ is my head, follow me because, when He is my head, I have got good things for you here. See, some carnal people look at a ministry like this, and they say, well, who does she think she is? She does not answer to anybody. You have no idea what you are talking about if you think that. I answer to the God of the universe. [?Speak up?].

            John 5:26 and 27 says, "For as the Father has life in Himself; so hath He given to the Son to have life in Himself; and hath given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of man."

            What Scripture verse is that?

            That is John 5:26 and 27.

Amen. All judgment is in the Son. You see, judgment is not in the Holy Ghost, so the preachers filled with the Holy Ghost or preachers, like the Baptists, that have great faith -- the Baptists have been a great blessing to this nation and to the world. They are people of great faith, but there is -- judgment is not in faith; judgment is not in the Holy Ghost; judgment is not those which speak in tongues. Judgment is given unto the Son, those in whom Christ is appearing. And as soon as Christ begins to appear in you, He begins to judge you, so what the Lord is saying, judgment is given unto those who have been judged. Amen.

            I just heard that Scripture, "Humble yourself under the mighty hand of God, and He shall lift you up."

Amen. Thank you for that witness.

            It is not considered envy in any form to want to comprehend and understand the deep things of God, the mysteries of God.

No, that is not envy. But envy is a spirit, OK. Now we could have two people that are both sitting side by side, and it -- when you look at them with your carnal mind, they both want to understand the deep things of God. In one of them, it is a humble spirit that just wants to know God. But in the other person, it is a spirit of pride and greed that wants to possess the things of God so that they can use it to make themselves a great one.

            Oh, like Simon the Magician?



But on the surface, you see two people sitting on the couch, and they look exactly the same, but the motives that they have for wanting to learn are different. So I pray frequently that the Lord be the author of my motives, that everything I do, I should do with the heart of God, for His purposes because He is the only valuable thing in this whole world. Anything else could be lost at the snap of a finger. We all know that with [UNINTELLIGIBLE] -- what is happening in this country. Possessions can be lost; relationships can be lost; husbands can be lost; children can be lost.


Sudden destruction. He is the only thing. The Lord Jesus Christ, He is the only thing and the only one that abideth forever. He cannot be lost, so seek the one that can meet your every need. Make Him first in everything that you do, and that is wisdom. The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. Not to -- that does not mean to be afraid of Him; it means the respect of the Lord, which includes this acknowledgement that He is really the only thing that matters. If you do not have the Lord, nothing that you have is worth anything. You can be bankrupted emotionally, spiritually and financially and possession-wise in a second. Can you imagine? Seek ye the Lord, brethren. He is the only valuable in the world; He is a pearl of great price.

            Before you spoke about Bill Britton, [?how?] he was brought into a [?relation of?] the sons of God, yet the Lord took him. I thought, if the Lord allows you to see it, He brings you into it. Like, He does not hold something out to you without giving it to you.

I believe, Bill Britton manifested great authority. I spoke to Bill Britton on the telephone. There was an awesome manifestation of authority on that man; I felt it through the telephone, the righteousness of God. You get what you preach. By and large, you get what you preach. Bill Britton did not have the message of perfection. He still believed in Hell; he still believed in the rapture. But I believe that he got or he received from God what he preached. I am telling you I was touched in the phone call, and God told me to call him, and --

            Why does he still believe in the rapture if he believes in the so- -- manifestation of the sons of God?

Well, I may be wrong about the rapture. He st- -- he --


He did believe in the --


OK, but for a long time, he believed in the ra- --


Yeah. Because our -- the mind of Christ is being built into us, and it is possible to have a contradiction in your mind. If you listen to my early messages, you know, you will see the difference from now to six years ago because Christ is being built in me. It is an evolution; it is an unfolding revelation; it is an ongoing increase in authority.

            Probably six years from now, it will be something all the way --


            -- [?you know?] --

Yes. Yet there is no reason to reject the other messages. It is just if you hear little incon- -- the message is consistent. I have listened to old messages. The message is consistent with some minor differences in my -- in the understanding of the technicalities of it, you know, but the basic message is sound. Yeah?

            Jude 14 and 15 says, "And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of His saints, to    execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which godly sinner -- ungodly sinners have spoken against Him."

Amen. It is certainly not going on in the church today, OK. And, again, the reason why, I am not condemning the ministry. They cannot execute judgment until they are judged. That is why judgment begins at the house of the Lord and at the elders thereof. OK, now the carnal mind says, well, judgment is beginning at the elders thereof because those wicked elders, it is their time to get it. No, they are the ones that are suppose- -- they have to get their judgment so everyone else can get judged because the judgments of God are merciful. The world is crying for the judgments of God, that we should be set free from the bondages that are upon us. So God judges the elders first so that they could judge everybody else. He does not judge the children first so that they could judge the elders. God has an order: The elder judges the younger, and it goes down and down and down. Praise God. What a wonderful day that we are living in.

            Yeah, I know.

It is very exciting. It is wonderful.

            All of God's judgments are unto correction.

Yes. That is why to say that somebody died in a plane crash or had a car accident and to say that that is God's judgment on you, that is not -- I cannot receive that. God's judgment is the reaping and sowing judgment. God's judgment teaches you, even for an extreme case. For example, let us say you do something vicious, and you deliberately get somebody fired, and then you turn around, and you get fired. I believe that if your relationship with God is sound, you will have another job like that because God knows that you need a job, but you had to experience what it was like. You had to experience what you did to that other person, but it does not mean God is not going to give you another job. It does not mean that He is going to kill you; it does not mean He is going to bankrupt you. What you do, you experience what you did to that other person, and, Lord willing, you learn from the discomfort and the pain, and you stop doing it. That is what judgment is all about. So if He wrecks your car or if He blows up your plane, now what kind of correction is there in that? That is just pointless punishment. That is what -- that is Satan's judgment. God does not do that.

            Will He allow though to -- will He allow it to break your pride though?

The- -- well, yes. He will allow it, but, you know, you have to have spiritual eyes. If God takes your car away -- I believe, with all my heart, that God was in that, Rita, that --

            [?She knows what I am talking about?].

Yeah, that, you know, you were running all --


-- over the place, not even --


-- only to break your pride. I do not even think God would wreck your car to break your pride. I think, the reason God let that happen to you -- and you have said things to me yourself that would witness to this, so I know God is going to call it to your memory because you have a good memory, is you just would not sit down and get close to Him. You were running, running, running. You had that car, and you were running here, and you were running there. And you were out every day, and you had plans to go to college. You were going to do this, and you were going to do that, and that was not what He had for you. What He had for you was to come deeper into the kingdom, and I am sure I would go so far as to say that the Lord spoke to you, many a time. I guess, you did not hear Him, but that He spoke to you over and over again, and He said, Rita, do not do that. Do not go out this day. Stay home and listen to a message. Settle down, I want to talk to you. Slow down. I am sure He was telling you that, and you did not hear Him, so He wrecked your car, and now you have more time for the Lord. Now, of course, it is breaking your pride also, but in my opinion, the primary reason that you lost your car was that God wanted you to spend more time with Him than you were spending, and you -- either you could not hear Him, or you just outright refused to do it, and that is my opinion, for whatever it is worth, and it is worth a lot because it is the truth.

            And what about now then? He -- is this Him that then that f- -- totally filled up my life, or did I just grab for the more hours and full-time hours at work?

Oh, well, I do not know. D- -- I do not perceive anything ungodly in what you are doing right now.

            Most of my time is filled up, and I do not [UNINTELLIGIBLE] -- have any time.

Yeah. But you listen to messages when you work. Do you not listen to messages when you work? You listen to messages when you work, but when you take your car and you take a friend and you spend a day in the city, you do not h- -- you are not listening to messages when you are walking all over Manhattan and Chi- -- and I am not criticizing you. J- -- this is just how I see it. When you are walking over China Town and Manhattan and you are running here to North Port and [UNINTELLIGIBLE] -- you are not listening to messages. There is no room for God in that at all. Amen. It is the truth.

            Yeah. But that was not that much that I did that. Most [CROSSTALK]

Well, I am -- do not -- I am not the one that did it to you, OK. God did it to you, OK.

            Yeah. But when I am thinking about it logically, I did not do that that much.

Yeah. Well, I do not have the full counsel of God --


I do not have the full counsel of God in my mind, but I know that is what He told me. So I may not have the exact details to report to you, but that is what He told me, that you were using the car for activities that were keeping you away from Him. So if you want more details, you would have to ask Him, but I real- -- I believe that He told me that.

            Yeah. Because, I think, I do remember -- I cannot remember, but those trips that I am thinking about was not that much, but I do remember that it was in my mind to -- out of loneliness, to get my car. I had the access to get my car, go somewhere --


            -- when I should have slowed down and waited on the Lord and spent more time with Him alone.

And e- -- and beyond that, even at the very least to say, Lord, what would You like me to do? You see, the point is that you were running your own life, and you were not even asking Him --


-- Lord, what to do. You were just doing your own thing.


So --

            There were times I think that happened, yeah.

So maybe He wanted to stop you from doing your own thing. Maybe He -- it would not have bothered Him at all if you had a car if you had just said, Lord, is it OK? But you were just running your own show, and He had to do that to get your attention. He will restore. He will re- -- He restores everything He takes away.

            Yeah. I was going to ask you on the reaping and sowing judgments. I had done a lot of bad thing in my early Christianity, and now that I am doing well in the Lord and Jesus gave me that spirit ability to sow good seeds now, how long will I have to reap from the bad seeds that I sowed in early -- in my early Christianity?

Well, every case is individual, but it could be a while, but let me encourage you. You have two things happening in your life at once. You are so- -- you are reaping the bad for what you have sown, and that reaping is in your natural life. Well, in my case, it was physical illness. You -- God bless you, you seem to be healthy. So whatever it is to you, unhappy experiences, however it manifesting in your life, it is in your soul life, OK. But, simultaneously, at the same time, your spiritual life is ascending, so the Lord has not left you comfortless, OK. Do you hear what I am saying? So you may be uncomfortable in your soul life, and other people hearing this message, there may be a temporary season of infirmity, but you are not comfortless while you are reaping what you sowed. He is giving you and increasing in the Spirit at the same time.

And then you reach a point where the judgment just hits bottom. It just goes as far as it is going to go, and then you start coming up again, and now you are reaping good things, both in the spirit and in the soul realm, and then things just get better and better and better.

            If you ask the Lord to forgive you of them things, them bad seeds, and you repent, is there a possibility that you can get the mercy of the Lord and just -- and He will tear down them seeds for you so you would not reap?

Well, let me tell you this. There is a purpose in reaping what you sow, and the purpose is to change your heart. If, however it happens, that condition of heart which made you do wicked things has been dealt with and ripped out of you, then there is no reason to receive the judgment. But to the best of my knowledge, the only way the root, the spiritual root of the bad things that we did, is ripped out of us, is by receiving the judgment. That is my understanding, and that is why we must reap what we sow, not because God is a vindictive God like you hear it preached sometimes. Well, Jesus had the sh- -- His blood had to be shed, and because blood was shed and God wanted blood -- God is not like that. The purpose that you are reaping what you are sowing is that it is going to change your heart so that you become incapable of ever doing it again. So as long as you are capable of still doing that wickedness, the judgment will fall on you until its purpose in you is accomplished.

            Well, I will tell you, I -- being saved six years, I had a horrible six years. It has just been Hell, and just now in my life am I starting to do better [CROSSTALK]

This is not something that everybody likes to hear, but it is something that people need to hear, that we can reap these judgments for years, and nobody ever told me that. My life was horrendous for the first 10 or 11 or even 12 years. I lose track of the time. My life was horrendous, and a lot of people condemned me, saying something must be wrong with me that I was still having all of these problems. My life first really started turning around three years ago. Now I have start- -- I hit bottom, and my life started turning around. But the truth is that the church needs to know that, depending on the severity of your sin, and my sin was very great, but depending on the severity of your sin, that is how long you are going to have to reap hardness for the Lord to change your heart over. And it was a -- for me, it was somewhere between 10 and 13 years. I can figure it out, but right now I have lost track of the time.

And nobody likes to hear that, and, I think, if I had heard that when I was a young Christian, I would have been very upset. But, I think, it is better to hear this, that it is typical to sow what you reap for all these years, than to think that God has forsaken you and that God has forgotten you and that there is no hope of Him ever delivering you. At least, if you hear this word, you might not be happy to hear that it could be six years or 10 years, depending on the severity of your original sin. At least, you know that -- although you may be unhappy that it is taking that long, at least, you know that you are within normalcy, and you should hold onto the horns of the altar because deliverance will surely come. It is not that God does not love you, or it is not that God has rejected you. It is that this is the way that it works.

Now let me say this again. This is really important. The judgment -- the reaping and sowing is not punishment for punishment's sake. If it was punishment for punishment's sake, well, then God could give you a pardon and forget about it, but it is not punishment for punishment's sake. It is the procedure which rips sin out of your heart and gives you the mind of Christ in its place; it gives you a new heart. So, therefore, the love of God would never rescind the judgment until it has accomplished its purpose in you.

            So God is not punishing us?

The Scripture calls it punishment, but God is righteous; God is love. God is so wonderful that even His punishment is not the punishment of man. You see, it is punishment. God calls it punishment, but it is not punishment as man knows punishment.

            It is child training.

Yes, exactly.

            Is there a difference between the wrath of God and the judgments of God?

Yes. The wrath of God is the condemnation that fell upon humanity when Adam rebelled against God and was put out of the garden. It is a blanket judgment that is unto destruction, and this judgment is mediated by Satan and -- because we fell down to Hell, and Satan is the god of Hell, so every sin that we commit, Satan has a legal about from God to bring destruction unto us. And the wrath of God is unto death, but the judgment of God is unto life. The judgments of God, which is mediated by Christ Jesus sitting on the throne of your heart, is the merciful judgment that brings correction, that we have been talking about earlier tonight. The judgments of God bring correction. It is only mediated by the Son. The judgment must be given by the Son. It brings correction; it drops the seed of Christ and results in the resurrection of the dead. The wrath of God wipes you out, kills you.

            The wrath of God is the blanket what, you said?

It is the blanket condemnation of God upon fallen mankind with no opportunity, really, to repent within that judgment. You see, with the righteous or with the judgment seat of Christ, the Lord brings a correction and tells you what you are doing wrong so that -- not only that you reap what you sow but that you have an opportunity to change. Now when you are under the wrath of God, for example, let us say there is a family where all three members of the family are dying of cancer. That is a judgment, OK, but there is no explanation to anyone, even the head of the family, why the family is being wiped out. They are just being wiped out. And the only hope in this world, under that condemnation, would be a general repentance, which would bring a reconciliation to the Lord Jesus Christ. But the judgment of Christ is a specific repentance whereby -- you see, whereby the Lord Jesus Christ would say to you, look, it is this sin of bitterness or whatever it is that has produced this cancer in you. You need a new heart, and I am willing to give you the new heart so that you could be healed permanently. Do you see the difference? Yeah.

So the -- let me just say it again. The wrath of God gives no explanation as to why this is happening to you. So even if you had any ability within yourself, whatsoever, to change, you -- there is just no understanding as to why this is happening to you. But in the judgment seat of Christ, you are given specific correction and specific instruction as to not only what your sin is but how to change, and we are right back to square one. That is the ministry of the sons, bringing correction, not just telling you what you are doing wrong, but instructing you in righteousness so that you should know what to do in its place. When you stop -- when you leave off from performing a sin, you have to know what to do in its place, so it is not enough to tell someone, that is wrong; you have to stop doing it. You have to tell them what they should be doing, instruction in righteousness. This is all in the ministry of the Son.

            Why does the wrath of God come down, you know, and to who?

The wrath of God is on -- upon all of humanity. It fell upon Adam. "As in Adam all die."

            And why make a separation for the sons? Why does the wrath not come down on the sons?

The wrath of God --

            [?You know?]?

-- does come down on the sons. The wrath of God is on the whole creation. What happens is that, when you are moving in Christ, your savior, Christ Jesus, lays hold of that judgment that is righteously falling on you. Satan has executed that judgment on you because you deserve it, but Christ Jesus puts up His hand and intercepts the ball and says this judgment will not be unto death. You see, there is a sin unto death, OK. Christ Jesus says this judgment will be unto life. I am going to let it happen to you. I am going to let you experience it. I am going to bring it to confession and repentance. I am going to give you My Christ, and I am going to raise you from the dead.

So we see that the judgment seat of Christ begins with the judgment known as the wrath of God, and the only difference between the wrath of God and the judgment seat of Christ is the result of that judgment. The result of the wrath of God is destruction, and the result of the judgment seat of Christ is life, but it is basically the same events happening to you.

            What is a sin unto death?

The sin unto death is the sin of man that has not been confessed and offered up to the Lord Jesus Christ so that His judgment can switch over from destruction unto the judgment seat of Christ. You see, you have to admit you are guilty, you see. So if you have sin in you and you are a Christian and you think that you do not have to confess your sins or you do not want to see your sins or you -- however it wor- -- you know what I am talking about. You just will not deal with your sin. That is a sin unto death because without confession and repentance, there is nothing that even the Lord Jesus Christ can do for you. So the sin unto death is really -- excuse me, it is really a manifestation of pride that will not let you enter into the procedure that the Lord Jesus Christ has laid out to avoid death.

            So that is when the wrath of God comes down on you, right?

The wrath of God is falling on everybody, but if you do not confess your sins, the Lord Jesus Christ is not intercepting it. It is no- -- see, when the Lord Jesus Christ intercedes, it is no longer unto destruction, but it is unto life. If you do not admit that you are in sin, then the Lord Jesus Christ will not intercede for you, and the wrath of God is unto destruction. So the sin unto death is really pride.


            [AUDIO CUTS OUT] [?more?], which is probably very basic, and I should know it, but I do not. My understanding, the mind is thoughts which are spirit, and you explain the spirit and the mind are two different things and that the mind is the union of a spirit -- the offspring of spirit and soul. So my question is, is mind not spirit because mind is just a bunch of spirit?

Well, that is true. Mind is spirit, and that is in the new book, if you get a chance to read it. It is in there. Mind is -- the way the Lord gave it to me to write in the book is that mind is spirit and soul but functions as spirit, OK. Mind is spirit and soul but functions as spirit. That is just like saying the kingdom of the two heavens is the mind of Christ and the carnal mind, but the carnal mind is in total submission to the mind of Christ, so it is just like there is just the mind of Christ. Can you hear that?


OK. It is spirit. It functions as spirit.

            So the carnal mind is made up of a bunch of thoughts or spirits that are generated out of the spirit of Satan, right?

Well, not quite because we are told in Romans -- I think, it is Romans 8:5, if I am not mistaken, that that which is born of the flesh, that which the flesh fathers, that which Satan fathers is flesh because Satan is really soul. She is acting in a spirit role, but she is not spirit. She does not have the goods, so when soul beget- -- joins with soul and begets a mind, that mind is really not spirit; it is soul. And that is why Paul calls it -- soul is flesh, and that is why it is called the carnal mind. Carnal means flesh. The carnal mind is the mind which is born of a soul father and a soul mother, and she is a perversion. But she is functioning as spirit, but she does not have the goods.

And the natural example that we have given in this ministry is a sort of -- a woman who is, sort of, dependent, whose husband dies and leaves her with 10 kids, and she becomes the head of the household. She is doing a terrible job of running the family, but there is just no man around. So she is the head of the family, but everybody is messed up and dying and on drugs and alcohol because she just did not make it in the role of authority. That is the carnal mind. That is Satan and the carnal. [UNINTELLIGIBLE] -- they are functioning as spirit. They are doing a terrible job, and the whole creation is dying.

            So then the thoughts in the carnal mind are not really spirit, so then the demons, which are the thoughts -- demons are not really spirit.

Following through on what you are saying, no, they are soul.

            They are souls.

They are soul, but there is an element of spirit in there. Can -- does anybody know why? OK. Now we have a soul.


The human spirit.


Yeah, right. The element of spirit that is in the carnal mind and in the demons is the human spirit, so there is some measure of spirit. But w- -- let me put it to you this way. The mind of Christ is soul and spirit but functioning as sprit, but the mind of the flesh is soul and spirit, but it is functioning as soul. It is not -- you cannot call it spirit.

            So then if we -- what is it then that we are casting out? I mean, we are calling it spirit of this or spirit of that with discernment, but if it is not really spirit, then we are incorrect. What are we casting out?

Well, Jesus di- -- never said they were spirits. He called them [?daimonia?]. He called them demons.

            Demons, so demons --


            -- are not r- -- well, what are evil spirits then? [?He?] does mention --

Well --

            -- evils spirits.

Yeah. Well, that is very in- -- what you just said is very interesting because I always wondered why Jesus called the demons demons and not spirit, and this might be the answer. The demons are spirit and soul but functioning as soul, and He just gave them another name. Do you hear what I am saying? He called them demons.

            [CROSSTALK] soul joined with soul. Is that right?

The demons -- well, let us start at the beginning. The carnal mind is the offspring of the soul that God created f- -- a- -- who had joined to another part of the same soul. It is a lesbian, incestuous union which has produced the perverse child, the carnal mind. If -- there is some element of spirit in there because of the human spirit, which is the reproductive organ of the soul, OK. Now demons are the product of the carnal mind, OK, and the harlot, Eve. So our human spirit has joined illegally with Satan and produced the fruit of the carnal mind. And then she commits incest with her own offspring and has another offspring or another generation of offspring which we call demons, and they act like spirits, but they are really soul. The mind of Christ acts like spirit and is spirit, OK.

            And now what is the difference between demons and the term evils spirits in the Bible?

I do not know. It co- -- it [UNINTELLIGIBLE] -- probably depending on their function. If you look up evil spirits, I would be curious to know if it says demons or not, but I do think, in the Greek, if you look it up, sometimes Jesus says demons. And I do not know if you looked up the term every time if the Greek word would be [?daimonia?] or He ever ca- -- I think, sometimes He calls them spirits, so I do not know. But my gue- -- my educated guess would be depending on their function, that if they are functioning as spirit, under certain circumstances, Jesus would call them spirits because they are acting like spirits, OK. Now the -- a more specific difference, I do not know, but it has to exist. He just has not told me yet. Jesus does not give different names for no reason. So I would say to you that there has to be a category of offspring of the carnal mind and Eve that He calls demons and then another category of offspring of the carnal mind and Eve that He calls evil spirits, and maybe this is going to be a part of the new revelation that He promised to be bringing into this ministry. If He gives me the answer, I will pass it onto you. It is a good question. Praise the Lord.

            [CROSSTALK] Christ. It is the -- it is also the joining of a soul and a spirit, the offspring of that, of the Father and Eve, right?


            So, again, is the mind of Christ made up of thoughts, and are those thoughts spirit?

Yes. The answer is yes.

            So this time it is legitimate; it is spirit. The thoughts are sprit.


            It is generated from the Lord Jesus Christ, that -- the unconscious mind.

Right. Jesus said, "My words are spirit, and My words are life." Yes, and if it is Christ speaking through you, your words are spirit, and your words are life.

            So now if it was a pure -- say a pure thought that came from the unconscious mind of the Lord Jesus Christ and it was spoken through the mind of Christ in you, then it comes directly from heaven, right?

Mm-hmm. Heaven is the mind of Christ, yes.

            And that is just the pure word of Chri- -- of God, right?

Well, I am not sure what your question is there.

            The pure thought of God, if you are speaking it directly.

Oh, I see what you are saying. Well, we have to be careful because, in this hour, you know, we are really not all that raised up yet. It could be a pure thought. It could be a 99 percent pure thought. It could be a 95 percent pure thought. There is always the possibility, which happens much to frequently, I regret to say, is that a pure word of Christ comes through, and your carnal mind just grabs hold of it and just -- did you ever see kids hanging on to the back of a fire truck? That is what your carnal mind does, OK. And we have experienced that. It is one of the things that we are working on in this ministry that -- basically, Rita and are the only ones that are doing it right now, but we are trying to point out to you, to the other people here, when a true word of the Lord comes forth and is followed right up by a word out of your carnal mind, we are pointing it out to you so that you can start to recognize it yourself because we have a mixture here. So it is very common, and the carnal mind will do it whenever it can. It will -- as soon as Christ moves through you, the carnal mind gets right in there so close behind it that if you cannot hear the difference, it comes in on the shirttails of your Christ's words. So it is very po- -- I am not sure what you are getting at, but it is possible to have the word polluted in this hour --


-- very much.

            -- I would like to know if -- I think, I would like to know what the soul -- what part does the soul really have in this? That -- if the spirit of the Father is the Spirit and the Lord Jesus Christ is spirit and that is one spirit, but then in the mind, that is more than one spirit. That is several thoughts, right?

No. The Scripture says --


-- the mind of Christ is not divided. It is one thought --


-- wherever He is manifesting, yeah. Wherever He is manifesting, it is the same thought.

            So then what does the soul have to do with it? Because the spirit originally joined with the soul, but where does the soul appear? The spirit was spirit before, but the mind of Christ is still spirit expressing totally the spirit, so where is the soul?

Oh, I see what you are saying. It is -- the -- where is the soul? The soul is the container for the spirit, and the mind is the structure in the soul that the spirit dwells in, and what the soul is doing is giving structure to the invisible spirit.


It is giving structure to the invisible spirit. The soul provides materials that lets the spirit appear, both visibly because the soul has an appearance, I am told, not that unlike our physical bodies, although different. We know Jesus appeared. And also the mind of Christ is a person- -- along the lines of personality, OK. I do not have the -- do not hold me to these words. I am still working on them myself, OK. I believe, personality is more than mind, but I am very tired right now, and this is all that is coming to me. That mind is appearing in a -- a mind appears in a visible realm. Spirit is in an invisible realm. Mind is appearing in the soul realm, so we see spirit appearing. For spirit to appear, it has to be in the soul realm, and, for whatever God's reason, He desires to appear, OK. So the mind is the structure. He is appearing, OK. His thought is appearing.

            And the soul is in the realm of appearance.

And the souls is in the -- well, the soul is in the visible -- is in -- right, in the realm -- now the realm of appearance is on two levels. Right now, we have a spiritual, visible world, a realm, and we have a physical, visible realm. This physical, visible realm is coming down; it is a perversion; it is Satan's world. But there is a spiritual, visible world in the soul realm where the mind -- where the thoughts of God take form and structure.


OK, so that is basically the difference. I hope I answered your question

            [CROSSTALK] also correct, that the soul would ex- -- that the mind of -- the soul is an expression for the mind, or [CROSSTALK]

The soul is -- well, actually, the mind is a -- is within the soul.

            [?Let me put it this way?]. The soul is an expression for the spirit?

Yes. The spirit expresses itself through the soul. In order for a visible image to appear -- see, spirit wants to appear. In order for a visible image to appear, spirit must pierce through soul. If you want a natural example, light pierces through water, the water in the atmosphere, and we see a rainbow. The way God has set it up, for spirit to appear, which is what He wants to do, there has to be a soul for Him to pierce through. And when He gets to the other side, He takes form. That is the way He set it up.

            So you are saying the light being the Father and the rain being the soul realm, and the appearance would be the mind? The rainbow would be the mind, is that what you mean [INAUDIBLE]?

Would the rainbow be the mind? I am not going to answer that now because I am very tired, but it is a good question, OK. I never quite thought of it phrased that way. The only way I could phrase it, my understanding right now, is that the spirit pierced through the mind and the soul, and an image of a world appears. No, I guess, that was not correct then, OK. First, the Spirit joins with the soul and begets the mind, OK, and this is the realm of the soul. It is not the image of a world, OK. It is the rea- -- it is the realm of thought, OK. It is the realm of thought. For the image of a world to appear, the Spirit pierces through the mind and through the soul, comes out on the other side, and a world appears. That is the way it is working, OK.

So now let me clarify this right now, that there is such a thing as the image of a thought, OK. The thought appears on two levels. I am having trouble explaining this, Father. Please, help me. Let me back up and give you this example. In past studies that we have done, in the Book of Daniel and in the Book of Revelation, the Lord has shown us that the thoughts of God, as they appear in the realm of the spirit, are so almost undecipherable to our humanity that we could never ever understand them. They are symbols that mean nothing to us at all. So for the Lord to give us His thoughts, that we should understand them, these thoughts have to pierce into the realm of the soul. And we have found that when they come into the realm of the soul, they still need to be deciphered, but, at least, some people who are spiritual can understand the communication of the Lord as it is appearing in the soul. But when the communication of the Lord comes into the world that is formed, OK, then everybody can understand it.

So what I am trying to say to you, I am having a lot of trouble getting it out, is that the mind is a structure that is not quite as clear as this world system. Like, I see you sitting there; I know you are a woman, OK. If God wanted to give me the thought of a woman, OK, it is not as clear when that thought of God appears in my mind, OK. Sometimes I can get an image of somebody, and it will not be the woman that God is talking about. It comes out as another woman. Do you know what I am talking about? The thoughts of God, when they pierce through into my mind, is a thought that has taken structure. I can understand it, but it is not as clear as when it appears in this realm of appearance, but the mind is a structure, OK. That is all I have for you right now. I am really very tired. I probably would do better if I was not this tired.

But this is basically the -- one of the primary messages of the book that we just got out, and it is -- I believe, it is the beginning of the new revelation that the Lord has promised us in 1994. And so I want to drop it right now because I cannot do any better a job at explaining it right now, but I am sure that the Lord will bring it forth. So I suggest that you read the book, and we will just go with it, and I know God will give us the understanding.


The fact is that, in this hour, what God is saying to the church is the battle is on. And the carnal mind and the mind of Christ is everywhere that you look, so I am not searching for it. I am the vessel through which God -- I am the mind through which God is communicating to the church, and His message to the church in this hour is the carnal mind and Christ and full stature and the conflict involved in it, OK.

            It just seems like we hear the carnal mind so much, over and over. We must say it 1,000 -- 5,000 times a day.

It is the word of the Lord in this hour. When God was first bringing forth the Holy Ghost, everything was the Holy Ghost. When God -- when f- -- the Lord was bringing forth faith, everything was faith. When the Lord was bringing forth deliverance, everything was deliverance. It is the message that God is hitting home in this hour. I know the church that I was raised up in, the pastor in that church was severely criticized because all that he preached was deliverance. And there was some people that rose up in the congregation, and they thought that he should be preaching other things. And they were praying and praying and praying for God to be teaching -- giving him other things to preach. And they left the ministry after praying for a few months, and they left with a critical spirit. My personal opinion is God did not move them out.

And within a year that man was preaching sonship, and it was the most glorious year out of my whole five years in the church. We had the whole counsel of God. We had an incredible praise service, testimony service; the music was great; the people were anointed; we had teaching on sonship, demons cast out, healing. We had the whole counsel of God with the most incredible anointing, and these people missed the whole thing because they rose up in pride and criticized the pastor, and they told him that his ministry was not balanced. But the truth of the matter is that an individual ministry is not balanced. The ministry of Christ is balanced across the board. The whole counsel of God is available in the whole broad spectrum of churches that God has made available to His people.

So in this hour, the message here is the carnal mind and Christ and the battle which results in perfection. That is the message here, so for someone to say that this message is unbalanced, that is not true. If you need to hear about the Holy Ghost, you need to be in another church because the emphasis here is full stature. Do you understand?

            Yeah. Well, I like this particular realm of counsel of God in my life, but I will tell you the truth. I could never be in this particular thing 100 percent. I need to have my other side of the cake -- my other piece of the cake on the other side.

Well, then --


-- you go where you need, but I really suggest that you check it out and that you do not go where you need but you go where God wants you, you see.

            Oh, yeah.

You see, you go where God wants you.

            Yeah, most definitely.

OK. So if God is putting an emphasis in your life, what is this all about? I am talking to him.

            I am sorry. I thought you were finished [CROSSTALK]

I am talking to him. [CROSSTALK] OK. You go where God sends you, and you take what God gives you, you see, so this is the same manifestation of pride that I just gave you a testimony, which must have been for you. It must have been because God knew what you were thinking, you see. And the truth of the matter is that the reason that you are saying you need the balanced ministry is that this -- the anointing is attacking you and starting to tear you d- -- tear down your carnal mind, and your carnal mind wants to get up and run. You have had quite a dose this week, and you have had a big dose, and your carnal mind has been under a severe, severe attack, and the Lord is all over you tonight. And this is the second manifestation of pride, which was prophesied, OK.


OK. It is the second manifestation of pride, that what you just said was, well, I could not take a steady diet of this, you know. But --

            How could anybody?

It is hard, but by the grace of God, you could do it. But the end of it is full stature, which especially a man like you, who has the problem that he has, you need Christ to be formed in you. You do not need the Holy Ghost; you do not need grace; you do not need all of this weak little stuff. You need the strong meat that is going to raise up Christ in you that is going to give you a new mind that is going to save your life. But I really feel that you are under a severe pressure right now. I want you to know that, that the Lord is all over you, and He is pressing on you very hard, and you are manifesting. So would you like us -- would you let us pray for you?


You are manifesting, James, OK.


Do you understand?


And do you understand that that is the grace --


-- of God, that whatever He has for you believe he leaves, He wants to give you, and that nobody could abide under this fire for any length of time without having deliverance because you look like you are in torment right now. Let us pray for him.

            [CROSSTALK] I just wanted to see that Scripture because he wanted to know why we are dealing on carnal mind, so --


            -- I just wanted to see. It was in Romans 8:7.

Yeah, not now, Celia.

            Oh, I am sorry.

            I read it though.

            Oh, you did? Good.

            Yeah. The carnal mind [INAUDIBLE]




            Well, there is time, you know, when they went out to fight in a battle that, you know -- and there is a time for rest.

Here you go, James.

            You know what I mean? Like, you -- time for rest, and you do need the meat, but you know, there are string beans and fruit and stuff.

Take what God gives you, James, and everybody come pray for him.

            And --

[SPEAKING IN TONGUES] God has to control your life. You cannot be controlling your own life.


You are manifesting now. I just rebuke this manifestation. Fear, I curse you. In the name of Jesus, fear and pride. I bring you down in the authority of the Lord Jesus. Rend your heart and not your garment.


[CROSSTALK] rend your heart. Well, I know, rend your heart means, like, rip your carnal mind --


-- and His garment would be the soul. In other words, do not receive the correction in your soul. It has to be in your heart. In other words, do not feel the emotional pain. You see, he is in torment right now [INAUDIBLE] let your -- let the ungodliness be ripped out of your heart. Do not just take the distress in your soul.

            That is what that means?

That is what it sounds like to me. Lord, I just pray forth that you bring whatever deliverance you have for James tonight. You brought him down, Lord, from Albany. Do not let him go back manifesting like this. I just pray that you bring forth the deliverance, Lord.



You are going up and down between your carnal mind and Christ, and right now [?you are in?] your carnal mind, and you are really running. You are really running. You want to run real bad. Bring forth the deliverance, Lord.


            [INAUDIBLE] dark for six months of the year. It seems like there is some kind of a curse.

[?A great big?] curse, in the name of Jesus. You see [INAUDIBLE] in the spirit, and there is a big ripping and a tearing going on in [?your heart?].


            I have Swedish in my [CROSSTALK]

[CROSSTALK] Swedish?

            I did not know, really, what it was. I know his name was [INAUDIBLE] think that way, but he said [INAUDIBLE], so --

            Supposedly, the Swedish was on my mother's side, Irish on my father's.


            You know what I just saw? I saw, like, a head tourniquet with a jewel in the middle.

A head tourniquet, what is that?

            A he- -- some kind of wrapping around the head --


            -- with a jewel in the middle of it.


            You know those things that Indi- -- I think the Indians --


            -- or the Arabs wear and there is a jewel in the middle of them?



            It goes over the head. I do not know why I saw that.

I saw a big ripping and a tearing, and something -- a big hole opened up in your heart, and something, like, punched its way out of your heart. So it looks like it is your new man just really damaged your carnal mind severely.

            Yeah? [CROSSTALK]

Yeah. He damaged your carnal mind.

            Praise God.

            That is good.

            [INAUDIBLE] really good.


Yeah. Do you unders- -- is everybody finished? Is anybody still in prayer?



It is important that you understand that you were manifesting. Do you understand that you were getting all upset and that you were getting fearful? And I never perceived the envy on you, but if you thought it was envy, that is OK. I perceived pride and fear, and you really wanted to just get up and run out of here because the power of God was on you with such power, that he must -- you must have been experiencing some kind of emotional pain, and --

            Well, I did not think of running out.

You did not?

            Not this evening.


            This morning.

You wanted to leave this morning?

            But not leave the house. You know, I was not going to run out. I was just thinking of, like, goi- -- getting out of the meeting for just a little bit to get a --


            -- breather and --


            -- maybe go to another room and then come back.


            But I did not go. It was not powerful [CROSSTALK] just a little bit. But this evening, I did not feel like running out the door or nothing.

No. Well, it w- -- there was something. It was in your mind. You wanted to run from the ministry, OK, and that is because there was so much power on you that it must have been causing you some kind of distress, and, I think, it was frightening you a little bit, which is normal. It is normal, so I would just like you to leave with that understanding that that is typical here, that the -- there is a very powerful anointing here that attacks the carnal minds of men, and sometimes, you know, it makes them want to flee from the ministry. Sometimes it makes them turn against the ministry and criticize it or whatever. It is a form of self-defense.

            [?Self-?] --

As the power of God comes upon you --


-- you rise up and attack the ministry or attack me, so I just want you -- I do not want to get into any long discussion; I just want to give you information that you should know that the power of God is all over you, jimmy, and He is doing a deep, deep work in you.


OK, amen.

            That is blessing, yeah.

And that sometimes the result is that your carnal mind rises up and retaliates by putting thoughts in your mind against the ministry or against me or whatever, so we do not know what is going to happen when you go out of here, and I would like to prepare you as much as possible because, you see --


-- the Lord is fighting for your life, and this is no game, and the carnal mind has had you for a long time.


And he does not want to let you go.

            That is true.



So I do not have anything else to say to you other than that. If I could leave you with a knowledge and an understanding that the power of God came on you with such strength --


-- that it stirred up your carnal mind [?in a?] measure of enmity.


If I could just leave you with that, I would be satisfied, OK, and that the Lord is going to fight for you, and He is going to bring down what manifested tonight, and it what prophesied that it would be pride, and pride was revealed.




And that the Lord loves you and that He is fighting to save your life and to convert your heart so that you could not ever go back on drugs again.


And it is all good.

            [?Even?] I believe God is doing that, yeah.

And that there may be some distress. I do not really know what is going to happen to you, but there may be some distress and that I pray that if any form of distress upon you, that the Lord should bring this conversation back to your mind and should help you to cast down all of the imaginations and fight this battle. And [CROSSTALK]

            And resist fear and pride too, right?

Resist fear and pride, and take the victory over them.

07/11/15 – Transcribed by VerbalFusion

07/17/15 – 1st Edit CAS/BP

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Pastor Vitale's Bio

Sheila R. Vitale is the founding teacher and pastor of Living Epistles Ministries and Christ-Centered Kabbalah. In that capacity, she expounds upon the Torah (Scripture) and teaches Scripture through a unique Judeo-Christian lens.

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