268 - Part 6

Part 6 of 10 Parts


The Following Message Has Been Transcribed For
Clarity, Continuity Of Thought, And Punctuation By
 The LEM Transcribing & Editing Team.


Well, let -- I -- let me -- I know we are supposed to just be commenting on Jesus' words in this series, but I feel verses 41 to 43 -- I am going to comment on it just to -- that we can get the flavor of what He is saying here.

"The Jews then murmured at Jesus, because Jesus said, I am the" -- wait a minute. I think, I gave t- -- nope, that is right. "The Jews then murmured at Jesus, because He said, I am the bread which came down from heaven. And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How is it then that He saith, I came down from heaven?"

So we see here Jesus speaking about spiritual things to the Pharisees and the Pharisees not understanding a word that He is saying, and instead of confessing, Jesus, I just do not know what you are talking about. Would you tell me again? Would you explain it to me again? Instead of that murmured against Him, and they thought evil in their hearts, and this is the sin of pride, brethren.

Now what we are doing in this ministry is exposing sin. There is no condemnation in it because the exposure of your sin is going to save your life. The Scripture clearly states that until the man of sin in you is revealed, Christ cannot appear in you, so exhort you to ask the Lord to help you with your pride because it is embarrassing and it is hurtful to have your sins exposed, but there is just no other way to go. Most of us cannot recognize the operation of pride. We might say I confess the sin of pride, but to have it pointed out in the way you think can be embarrassing, but it is not even worth the embarrassment because your whole -- you have got a whole new life coming to you as your sins are exposed. So I just pray that God helps all of us. It is never pleasant; it is not pleasant for me either.

So we see the Pharisees responding with pride instead of a- -- instead of with a godly response, which would be I do not understand a word that You said. I guess I do not have the knowledge that you have. I guess I do not know. I guess I am not as smart as I would like to be. Would you please teach me? Instead of doing that, they are saying what is wrong with that guy. There must be something wrong with that guy; He is always talking in circles. He is talking, and He does not talk straight. He is out to confuse me. He must have some evil motive for speaking about things that I cannot understand. He must have pride. He wants to get it over on me. He wants to get off on an ego trip, none of which is true.

So this is the operation of pride, and every man has pride; even Jesus had pride. There was one exception between Him and us, H- -- does anyone know what that exception was? What condition was His pride in?


Yeah, OK [UNINTELLIGIBLE] -- both are correct. He was chained up in the bottomless pit, brain-dead, absolutely, non-functioning. So we are all challenged to lay hold of our carnal mind and every sin that is in it, the major one being pride followed closely by rebellion, and chain that thing up, and get it down in the bottomless pit. What does that mean? Well, before you can chain up your pride and your rebellion, you have to be able to see it. You cannot -- if you go out hunting, you cannot catch a deer if you cannot see the deer. And even worse, if you do not know what a deer looks like, [?there?] no way -- there is no way you are ever going to catch a deer if you are shooting at an owl or a rabbit because no one taught you what the deer looked like.

So you come to a meeting like this, and you pray a lot, and God teaches you, either directly or through a teacher, to recognize the operation of pride as he manifests in the way you think, in the things you say and in the way you feel. The world calls it attitudes and emotions. So in order for us to chain up attitudes and emotions which are devastating and destructive to our life -- why? Because God curses sin. That is the spiritual why. The practical why is you are destroying your life; you are ruining your relationships; you are getting yourself fired from your jobs, and you yourself are absolutely miserable because you did not want to lose that job, neither did you want to lose that relationship. And nobody wants to be cursed fi- -- by God, so it is to your benefit to learn, to recognize the operation of pride and rebellion and whatever other sin is growing out of that in the way you think, in the way you feel and in the things that you say. And when I speak about the things that you say, I am not necessarily talking about your words because your words can be faultless, but the spirit that is speaking the words can be sin.

Now in the army, it is very common for an enlisted man or a lesser officer, if that is the correct word, who has ought against his senior officer to say something like, yes, sir, with a very sarcastic tone, from what I understand, that is acceptable in the army. They -- because the army brass knows that you have to get your hostility out somehow, so as long as you say the right word, that is acceptable to them. But it is not acceptable to the Lord. See, to say the right words with the wrong spirit is not acceptable to the Lord because an attitude is a spirit, and if it is a spirit that is hostile, it is a criminal spirit as far as God is concerned.

So one of the things we are learning here is to recognize sin in ourself. Why? So it can be exposed. Why? So that Christ can arise and kill it. Why? Because when Christ arises and kills it, we are going to rise from the dead, and we are going to come up above the torment in our life and enter into a relationship with God of peace and contentment and total satisfaction. So, brethren, the Lord is calling us in this hour to work with Him to expose the man of sin so that He can bless us, OK.

So we see the Pharisees manifesting pride in response to Jesus' clear, spiritual communication, "I am the bread from heaven, and I have the power to save your life," and the Pharisees says who does He think He is. Would you listen to what this guy has to say? Now, brethren, this is very important that you can hear this because if it is a human man saying things like this and what he is saying to is -- he cannot fulfill, it is a manifestation of pride, OK, and it is a lie. But when the man saying it to you is speaking it out of the godhead in Him and it is the truth and He has the power to do it, it is not pride because pride is a spirit, and truth is a spirit. So every word that is spoken by every man is either the spirit of pride or the spirit of truth. Now if the man is speaking the truth and you think evil of the truth, you have, first of all, sinned against a righteous man, and you have deprived yourself of His power to impart righteousness to you, and you have proven yourself to be a carnal man who is ignorant of spiritual things.

[?OK, and I?] -- just in case there is anybody here questioning this, I want you all to know that I have been using words like ignorant and foolish for several weeks now. I have been using them a lot. This is not me. When I sit here in a meeting like this, preaching like this, Christ is up in me, and for Him to be using these words consistently, over and over, over the last few weeks, I -- if you cannot believe this, at least pray about it. This must be in somebody's mind because I am answering somebody's mind. This is not Sheila. This is Christ speaking to you, and if you are offended, it is your pride that is offended. And I have been saying it for all these weeks: If you are foolish, if you are ignorant, all you have to do is say, Jesus, I desire wisdom; I desire to be wise; I do not want to be foolish and ignorant. But to be foolish and ignorant and say how dare she call me foolish and ignorant and stay ignorant is ignorant.

So examine yourself, brethren, and if the Lord is pressing your buttons -- because that is what He is doing. And we will see in the -- in this chapter and chapter 6 and in chapter 7, there are some excellent examples of Jesus doing things that most men would say God would never, ever do that, but Jesus presses your buttons. Why would Jesus press your buttons, anybody? Why would Jesus press your buttons?

            To correct you.

Well, that is true, but before the correction must come the exposure of the sin, to expose your sin. Why? Because all you stiff-necked people, your sin is buried deep down under your soul. You do not want to admit that you have sin; you do not want anyone to know it, so He provokes you. I am telling you the truth. God [UNINTELLIGIBLE] -- has a couple of major ways that He will get all you stiff-necked people to see your own sins. If you walk out of here mad or if you get mad at me while I am preaching, you are manifesting. You need to know that you are manifesting. He wants you to see your sin, and the Christ has -- and the Christ in me has been very provocative towards you these last few weeks by calling you foolish and ignorant. So if it is irrita- -- if I am irritating you, if you are walking out of here saying, if she says that one more time, I am going to get up and wa- -- if that is your reaction, you are manifesting pride.

So do the wise thing; prove yourself wise and not ignorant. Do not get mad at me; beat up on your own pride. The Lord is challenging you to be translated from foolishness to wisdom. And what is wisdom? Side with Christ wherever He is manifesting. Side with Christ. Self-defense is always foolishness and ignorance, so translate over, brethren, and ask God to help you. And it is not easy, so if you are having a tough time, be kind to yourself because I remember those days when I used to fall down on my knees and beg God to get me past that manifestation of pride before I did something I would be sorry for.

You know what I did once? I had the moving men -- this woman in the office was really giving me a hard -- she was a superior. She was really giving me a hard time, and I had the moving men fill her office with file cabinets, and then they left, and there was no way to get the file cabinets out of her office, and I had to answer for that. I was foolish, but I got my licks in. But I remember there were times in my life that I fell down on my knees and said, Lord, if you do not help me with this manifestation of pride, I am going to open my big mouth, and I am going to lose this job.

So I have been through it too. That is why I am sitting up here, because I have been through it, and I have taken the victory. I prevailed, so do not come against me; come against your own carnal mind. That is what you are supposed to be doing. You are supposed to be in a war against the carnal mind. You are not supposed to be a carnal mind in a war against Christ; you have got it backwards. So if you are not on the side of Christ, if you examine yourself and you find out that you have not been on the side of Christ but that you have been the enemy of Christ, all you have to do from this very second, from this very moment, is to confess it as sin and repent and ask God to help you and start all over again from this second. You start new; you start fresh. Jesus provokes you. It is in the Scripture.

So we see the Pharisees acting like Pharisees, and they said who is this guy that He dares to say I am the bread of heaven? "I am the bread which came down from heaven." Is this not the natural man, Jesus, "the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How is it then that He saith, I came down from heaven?" So they are murmuring against the very Christ because they could not see Him; all they saw was a human being. And we are told in another place that the Jews stumbled at Jesus' flesh. We are told very carefully that the -- when the Christ appears in the earth, we will have to discern Him by the Spirit of Christ. We will not be able to recognize Him by looking at His flesh; He must be spiritually discerned. So the Pharisees proved themselves to be ignorant men in their -- by their response to His statements. Their response was carnal.

And Jesus responded to them by saying, verse 43, "Murmur not amongst yourselves." And now look at Jesus' response. He did not get mad at them; He is answering their question. And I -- we have talked about this before: Christ answers your questions. He does not get mad at you, OK. Even if you are in sin, He is long-suffering. He has much patience. He answers your questions. He explains it over, and He explains it over, and He explains it over, and He suffers long with you when you are in your ignorance. When you come against Him, He rebukes you, but if you are just murmuring in your ignorance, He teaches you, and this is what He says.

Verse 44, "No man can come to Me, except the Father which hath sent Me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day." Well, that does not sound like what they teach in the church to me. All I ever hear is have you made a decision for Christ? Have you decided to lay it down and serve God? The word draw, it is Strong's 1670, and it means to drag off, caveman style by the hair, you know, to draw by inward power, to lead or to impel. My Bible says, "No man can come to Me," Jesus speaking, "except the Father which has sent Me drags him." Now I do not know about you, but when reverse inference is applied to this phrase, it says to me most, if not all, men will not come unless You drag them. And is not catching fishes in a net dragging men?

So what is going on with all these people running up to the altar when these altar calls come in in the existing professing church? I want to tell you it is not a true call. It is a call that says I will meet your need; come and get help; come and get loaves; come and get fishes; come and get blessed. And some people have a spir- -- it is a true spiritual response, but it is not the response to the true message because when God really calls you and you get a vision of the trials and tribulations you are going to have to go through, when you get a vision of what it is like to really be a Christian, when you hear the Scripture of -- that -- where Jesus is saying they hated Me first, and they are sure to hate you, and they persecuted Me, and they are sure to persecute you, and he who has given up lands and children -- and what is the other one, wealth?


Lands, children, finances, he --

            Wives, children [CROSSTALK]  

Wives, children and lands shall receive a hundredfold with --


-- persecutions. They are not running up to the altar; they are running down the street, and He is running after them and grabbing them by their hair and dragging them back. I personally do not know anybody that has run into the battle at the beginning. I am running into it now because I know there is no -- the -- everything is burnt behind me. But everyone is running and screaming and yelling and trying to get away from the true call of Christ on their life because no one wants pain; they want Cadillacs and mansions with Italian dinners. Do you know that carnal Christians think the mansions are for them? No, we are the mansions, and we are in bad shape. We are in much need of repair, and it hurts when that hammer and chisel hits you, OK.

We are still in verse 44. Jesus said, "No man can come to Me, except the Father drags him here: and I will raise him up at the last day." I have two Scriptures for you, if you will recall the principle of usage. Brethren, you can look up in the Greek lexicons and look up any word and find many definitions of that word, and one of -- a strong tool to finding out how this word -- what this word means in this sentence is to see how it is been used in other Scriptures. So I have two Scriptures for you indicating that this Hebrew word translated draw is not speaking about asking nicely.

Acts 21:30 says, "And all the city was moved, and the people ran together: and they took Paul, and drew him out of the temple: and forthwith the doors were shut." Now if you are familiar with that Scripture, they tried to stone him after that. They drew him or they dragged him out of the temple, and they would have killed him if the Greek army -- or was it the G- -- well, if the Roman army did not save him, and they saved him by arresting him. Does anybody kn- -- is anyone familiar with that story? The Roman soldier said what is this problem here? You are a Jew; they are a Jew. Why are they trying to kill you? And Paul said, anybody? What did Paul say, anybody? Because of the resurrection of the dead am I persecuted by my own people. In other words he said I believe in the resurrection of the dead, and they think that I am a blasphemer, so they are trying to kill me. So they dragged him out of the temple, fully intending to kill him.

James 2:6, "But ye have despised the poor. Do not rich men oppress you, and draw you or drag you before the judgment seats?" James saying you have despised the poor, and you have honored the rich man. But does the rich man not drag you to court against your will? Who goes to court? Who wants -- do you want to be sued by somebody? So f- -- to be dragged, forcibly dragged, to court, to be sued against your will.

And this Scripture in John 6:44 clearly says nobody answers the true call of the Lord of their own will or accord; they just do not. They have to be dragged. They do answer the preliminary call, which is not the real thing. They answer the preliminary call which imparts the Holy Ghost to them. No one is coming to the real thing by themselves, believe me. They hop in a boat along with Jonah.

"And I will raise him up at the last day." You know, one of these translations for the Greek word raise means to be born, and I suggest to you there are two meanings to this. If the Lord has a preferable meaning, I do not know what it is. He has not told me yet, unless it comes out now, unless it comes out of the realm of the spirit as I am talking to you. And I will cause him to be born in the last day. Well, we can say that he is going to be born again, that he will be born as a spirit man in the last day --


-- that the kingdom of God will be born in him and he will enter into life. Or if he is somebody who has passed out of this world system, I believe he will born into the -- his spirit will appear in this world system again. That is what Jesus is saying. "No man can come to me, except the Father which has sent Me drag him: and I will raise him up." I will cause him to be born into this -- into the kingdom of God at the last day.

Verse 45, "It is written in the prophets, And they shall all be taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto Me." The Greek word translated heard means understand. Every man that has understood and hath learned -- the Greek word translated learned means use and practice, by use and practice. Every man that has learned of the Father -- this is not speaking about an intellectual learning. It is speaking about experience, everyone that has learned of the Father by use and practice. You may have heard it preached here that there is no way to get faith except to find yourself in need and experience the saving power of the Lord Jesus Christ. I [UNINTELLIGIBLE] -- I can hear testimonies for 20 years about God's ability to provide my finances if He brings me into a faith walk, and there is no way that I am going to have the faith for a faith walk until I find myself in financial need and see the Lord come through. So to learn of the Father by experience, that is what this Scripture is talking about.

And no matter what area He is building your faith in, whether He is building your faith to get you out of jail or that He is building your faith to heal you from disease, whether it is finances, whether He is building your faith to deliver you in a bad marriage, whatever it is, it is good to hear testimonies. It is excellent to hear testimonies, but you have to have your personal experience. You must experiencing -- you must experience the saving power of the Lord Jesus Christ for you to really have that faith built in you; there is no other way you are going to get it.

"It is written in the prophets, And they shall all be taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard or understood, and hath had experience of the Father, cometh unto Me." Now this is not an ideal translation, "cometh unto Me." The Greek word translated unto can also be translated into, and I want to suggest to you that that word cometh -- well, if -- what the phrase is saying, "cometh into Me," it is saying becomes like Me, becomes Christ. If you have understood what the Father had to say and you have had experience with the Father, the end result of it is you are going to come into Me; you are going to come into Christ; you are going to be converted in to Christ. And is that not what the experience known as full stature is all about? It is being converted into Christ.

And this is how you become converted into Christ: You must be taught of God. Now some people think, to be taught of God, you have to get visitations directly from the Spirit of God, but that is not true. Jesus said do not honor the teaching of any man. What He is talking about is that you should not be taught by someone's carnal mind; that is what He is talking about. Go to a teacher; learn from a teacher that is sent of God. How do you recognize a teacher sent of God? You ask God to direct you to a teacher sent of God, and you pray continuously. When you find him, if this teacher is not of God, get me out of here. Deliver me, and place me under the instruction of a God-sent teacher. You pray it continuously. Deliver me from myself, Lord. Deliver me from my own destructions. Let me be only where You want me to be.

So if you are taught of God because you are under a God-sent teacher, that means you will hear the Father because Jesus said t- -- when the disciples came to Him and said I want to see the Father, and Jesus said, after all this time, you do not know that when you look at Me you see the Father? After all this time of sitting in this ministry, you do not know that the teaching coming down here is of the Father? When you hear the words of the Father and you then experience what is being taught here, you shall be converted into Christ. You hear the word preached. Then you walk out of here. You have your own personal relationship with the Father. He brings experiences into your life that makes this word real unto you, and Christ begins to grow in your heart. And as Christ grows in your heart, He crushes your carnal mind, and you begin a process of being converted or translated from carnal unto Christ, from death unto life.

So coming to a ministry like this is not just a p- -- the -- a passing of an evening. It is an experience that will result in your conversion, not conversion in word, but a conversion as a spiritual reality. A lot of Christians say they are converted when they stop drinking. They say they are converted when they stop taking drugs. They are converted when they stop committing [UNINTELLIGIBLE] -- continuous program of adultery, that they are converted. That is not conversion, brethren. That is your carnal man being reformed. If you were an alcoholic and now you are not an alcoholic or if you drank and now you do not drink, all that means is that your carnal man has been reformed. For you to be converted, you must get a new heart. To be converted means to abandon your carnal mind and begin to live out of your mind of Christ, which is a whole new mind. That is what conversion is.

Verse 46, "Not that any man hath seen the Father, save He which is of God, but He has seen the Father." He is saying no man has seen the Father except He which is of God, except He which is born of God. No man has seen the Father, only the one who was born of God, only the one who has -- whose Father is God. So if your Father is God -- how do you know your Father is God? What do you have that indicates that your Father is God?

            The Spirit?

What or who is the Son of God? What is the Son of God? The mind, OK. When you have the mind of Christ, you have been born of God, and you will know the Father. Only the Son knows the Father. If you are in your carnal mind, you will never recognize the Father. Jesus said to Peter, "Who am I?" And Peter said, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God," and Jesus said, "Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah." You could never have known that of your carnal mind. It must have been the Father in you that told you it was Me.

So, of course, the Scripture that I just quoted was Peter recognizing the Christ. In verse 46, we are speaking about no man seeing the Father except the one which has Christ; He has seen the Father, perceived the Father, understood the Father, been with the Father, experienced the Father. And the Hebrew word -- the Greek word translated seen means to perceive with the mind. The Father cannot be seen with the natural eye.

Verse 47, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on Me hath everlasting life." We have talked about this before. The correct translation is, "He who believeth into Me," and the way you believe into Christ is that your human spirit, which is joined to Satan and your carnal mind, must desire Christ with such an intensity that -- now, remember, spirit can vibrate out from you; the occult people call it an aura. They will see your spirit around you, OK. Your spirit, which is held captive by the carnal mind and Satan at this time, must vibrate out from you and penetrate into Christ.

So when you believeth into Christ, you have everlasting life. Why? Because Christ is the age [UNINTELLIGIBLE] -- the translation everlasting life, it really means age-abiding life, the life of the age which is the greatest of all the ages. To have that kind of life, your spirit must enter into it because age-abiding life is in Christ. So if you have a carnal mind and you have the Christ mind and your spirit is dwelling 95 percent in your carnal mind, you do not have age-abiding life, but by believing, by desiring, by hoping, by praying for, you are reaching out to Christ, and your spirit is being drained out of the carnal mind and entering into Christ. And then at some point it is called the catching up. Your spirit that is d- -- abiding largely in Christ is just completely sucked out of your carnal mind, and your carnal mind comes down with a crash. The Bible says Babylon is fallen, is fallen. It is the end of your carnal mind and your bondage and your servitude to Satan.

Verse 48, Jesus said, "I am that bread of life. Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and they are dead." Now let me tell you this upfront: I am going to point out to you, over the next few verses, that the English word eat is translated -- when you see all the occasions over the next few verses, that the English word eat is translated from two different Greek words, both of them translated eat. And I am going to suggest to you that this is a hidden place in the Scripture where we are told about the imputed and the imparted anointing, the imputed anointing meaning to have the Holy Ghost, OK. The way it is going to come forth is it is going to say the Holy Ghost covers you. The word is translated eat, but it really means to cover over you, and the second Heb- -- Greek word that is translated eat means to actually crunch and chew up and digest, and it is only when the life of God is crunched and chewed up and digested by you -- which is the imparted anointing known as Christ in you, the hope of glory. It is only when He gets inside of you, when He is growing out of you, that you are promised eternal life. There is no promise -- and I am going to go over it word-by-word with you. There is no promise of eternal life to the man who is covered over by the Lord Jesus Christ, which is the Holy Ghost.

Holy Ghost is nice; it is good to have the Holy Ghost, brings good things into your life, but eternal life is not one of the things He brings into your life. He brings gifts; He will heal you; He will deliver you; He will help you with your problems. But He does not have the authority to give you age-abiding life. If you want to live forever, you have to lay hold of that Holy Ghost and believe with such an intensity that that Holy Ghost becomes joined to your spirit so that that life, which is in the Holy Ghost, can start to grow in you. It is a spiritual plant. It has to grow in your soul. If it is not growing out of your soul, you are going to pass out of this world system.

Everything that you hear from me in these meetings, the -- it can be a blessing to you. My words can be a blessing to you, can bring comfort to your soul, and my prayers can help you with problems, but what is coming forth out of Christ here, it has got to penetrate you heart. It has got to implant itself in you so that it can reproduce itself in you. What I can do for you is limited. If you do not have Christ growing in you right now or if He is growing in you and He is very immature, I can help you; I can bless you; I can [?insist?assist?] you; I can strengthen you. But the day is going to come that, if He is not growing out of your soul, there is going to be nothing I could do for you.

So right now we are under a period of grace. God is saying I have allotted a certain amount of time. If you apply yourself and if your heart is right in this allotted period of time, the living word that is coming forth in this ministry should be able to implant itself in your heart. But if you are fooling around -- and I do not even know; God knows. He knows what is in your heart. If your heart is not right, it is not going to happen to you.

And when the allotted time comes and it seals off and the door closes, if Christ is not growing in your heart, you are going to find yourself with nothing. If God says the end of the time period that I have allowed you to sit under this kind of teaching is over and He moves you out and the seed has not implanted itself, [?you are got?] -- you are not going to have Christ. You have got to get it while the rain is falling. You have got to get it while it is available. It is not going to be available forever. This was one of the hardest lessons I learned in Christ: You have got to get it while God is giving it because there is a beginning of the time that He g- -- that He offers it to you, and there is an end of the time that He offers it to you. And if you did not get it, you missed it.

"Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead." That is verse 49. Well, I did not write that down, but obviously this is the word that means -- I guess, there are three different words that are translated eat, three different Greek words translated eat. This is -- I must have put it in another place. This is the word -- well, I guess I did not put down the number for you, but this is the word that means to eat natural food. They ate the manna, and all it did was cover them over. What does that mean? All it did was sustain their existence for a season; it was a Band-Aid. They ate the manna, and the manna was miraculous. That manna was given to them; it was miraculous. But it was a form of food that only sustained their human life for a season.

Jesus said in verse 51, "But I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread," meaning His own spiritual life, "he shall live forever or for the life of the ages: and the bread that I will give is My flesh, which I will give for the life of the world." Now the interlinear says live and not die; the King James says live forever. If any man eat of this bread, he shall live forever. But the Greek says he shall live and not die. You may recall that there are three Greek words that can be translated die. The Greek word used here is apothnesko, which means to die unconverted, apothnesko. So if you eat this bread from heaven, you shall not die with a lack of conversion.

Now there is the death of death; let us not forget that. Everybody is going to die. Either you are going to die converted and be converted as a result of it, or you will die unconverted and just pass out of this world. If you are going to be converted, your carnal mind must die, and if the conversion is successful, you will have the new mind of Christ, and that mind will give life to your soul and preserve your flesh. So Jesus says, if you do not eat of Me, you will die unconverted, which means you just pass out of this world.

"For I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of the bread, he shall live and not die unconverted: and the bread that I will give is My flesh" He is speaking about His soul now. The flesh is His soul, "which I will give for the life of the world." Bread is His soul. The Greek word translated world is cosmos. Some of you might know there is three Greek words translated soul. He gives for the life of the cosmos. The cosmos could be this whole world system that we live in, including the star system, the Milky Way. Also each individual is a cosmos.

So what Jesus is saying -- He is saying that when He gave up His soul life -- the Scripture says He sacrificed His soul life. He did not have to die; He could have lived forever in the condition that He was in. But He agreed to die so that He could be converted into a form which was spirit, whereby He could be poured out like rain upon all of the souls of humanity, and He is saving your cosmos, and He is saving my cosmos, and He is saving the whole creation. How? What specifically is He doing that is going to save our lives, anybody? He is giving us a new mind, a mind that is without sin, that is in the righteous image of the Father because there is a judgment for sin, brethren, and that judgment is death.

So with the mind that we have now, we can never, ever be redeemed because the mind is filled with sin and, in fact, is sin itself. And the Lord, being a righteous God, will always judge sin, therefore He is giving us Himself as our new mind so that we can become sinless, and therefore He will not have to judge us anymore. That is what He is doing. So He is giving His flesh. He is giving up His s- -- Jesus the Christ gave up His soul life so that He could be glorified, so that He could give Himself for the world.

Now look at the carnality of the Jews here, verse 52, "How can this man give us His flesh to eat?" And this Greek word translated eat, Thayer says, can also be translated traveling cloak used for protection against stormy weather. I double-checked this, and I triple checked this. Do I have the number for you hear? I guess I did not put down the number, but the word is translated eat, and what it me- -- it can be translated eat, but it means a traveling cloak to protect you against the storm, which is what the Holy Spirit is. It layers over you. It does not become a part of you. It is not growing out of you. It is a temporary salvation. It is a Band-Aid; it will keep you and sustain you in this lifetime.

"Then Jesus said unto them," verse 53, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except you eat the flesh of the Son of man" -- I think I messed up my note. Could you put that on pause for a minute? I think I messed up my [AUDIO CUTS OUT]

OK. Let me point this out to you. First of all, the word eat in verse 52, it does mean -- it can be translated eat, OK, but it also can be translated a traveling cloak. And Jesus gave the spiritual application to it, but the Pharisees could not pick it up. They gave the carnal interpretation to it. Jesus said, in verse 51, that if any -- He said, "I am the bread from heaven." He is speaking about spiritual things. "If any man eat of this bread, he shall live forever: and the bread that I will give us my flesh," so He is talking about spiritual things. When Jesus is talking about spiritual things, you are supposed to take the spiritual translation of the word. So the Pharisees thought He meant that -- He meant cannibalism, that they wanted Him to actually eat their flesh. But He was using the spiritual application of this word, and He was saying the man who covers Himself with My life, the man who takes Me on as a protection. He said, "I will give My life for the world." I do not know why I am hav- -- put that on pause again, please. I [UNINTELLIGIBLE] [AUDIO CUTS OUT]

I may have gotten these words mixed up in my notes, so I am just going to go on to verse 53, "Verily, verily," Jesus said, "Except you eat or cover yourself with the flesh of the Son of man and drink His blood, you have no life in you." OK. Now He is not saying you are going to live for the life of the ages. Listen, I am sorry I messed that up. This is what He is saying: Either you have life in you, or you have the life of the ages. If you have the Holy Ghost, you have life in you. The Holy Ghost is life; He lives inside of you. If you have life in you, OK, you have the Holy Ghost, but to live for the life of the ages, you must chew Him up and eat Him, and He must be growing in you. You must have Christ Jesus to have the life of the ages.

So backing up to verse 51 where He says, "If any man eat of this bread, he shall live forever," so that Greek word translated eat, it must mean to crunch up and swallow down because, to live forever, you have to become one with that life which is put in you when you have the Holy Ghost. "And the bread that I will give is My flesh." That is His soul, "which I will give for the life of the world," OK.

Verse 53, "And then Jesus said to them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except you eat the" -- [UNINTELLIGIBLE] -- "Except you cover yourself with the flesh of the Son of man and drink His blood, you will not have life in you," and that is the Holy Ghost, the life in you. Verse 54, "Whoso eateth My flesh, and drinketh My blood, hath eternal life or the life of the ages." That is the different word translated eat, which is Strong's 5176, and it means to partake, to gnaw, to crunch, to chew, raw vegetables, nuts or fruits.

So when He talks about eating My flesh, He is talking about His soul life, which is the Lord Jesus Christ or the Holy Ghost. When He talks about partaking of His life, He is talking about chewing Him up, and He is no longer talking about Himself as flesh; He is now talking about Himself as nuts and vegetables, talking about His spirit life, OK. He talks about eating His flesh li- -- He talks about covering Himself over with His flesh s- -- or soul life, but His spiritual life has to be digested as nuts or raw vegetables. Can you hear what I am saying? I am having a little trouble bringing this forth. You cover Himself with what was His human life and is now glorified, but His spiritual life is described as nuts and vegetables, not animal life, and must be digested. Can you hear it? OK.

Verse 54, so, "Whoso eateth My flesh, and drinketh My blood, hath eternal life." That is talking about ingesting, and the interlinear s- -- changes the word from eat to partake, "partake of His life, has life; and I will raise him up. I will cause him to be born in the last day." Verse 55, "For My flesh is meat indeed, and My blood is drink indeed," and  verse 56, "He that eateth My flesh, and drinketh My blood, dwelleth in Me, and I in him."

The Greek word translated dwelleth means to continue to be present, and it means to not perish. And I suggest to you that is the imparted anointing, so the word in verse 56 is -- the Greek word translated eat is 5176, and it does not mean -- it is not the word that says eat; it is the word that says partake. So when you partake of His flesh, when you chew it up and you take of the spiritual aspect of that flesh and drink it down, you get the imparted anointing, and He will not leave you, and you will not perish.

Verse 57, "As the living Father has sent Me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth Me or he that partaketh of Me or he who ingests Me, even ha- -- he shall live by or through Me." Now let me expound on that a little, verse 57, " As the living Father has sent Me, and I live by the Father" -- how does the man Jesus live by the Father? He lives by the Father because the Father brought forth His mind in Him. Jesus the Christ lives by or because of the Father because He has the Father's mind.

This is just another way of saying what I have been preaching here for a long time. Our existence is not sustained by Christ in this hour; our existence is sustained by the carnal mind. We live because of the carnal mind; that is why our father is the devil. We because of the carnal mind, but Jesus did not live because of the carnal mind. He lived because the Father brought forth His mind in the man Jesus, and that mind, the Son of the living God, was the king of the man, Jesus of Nazareth. The carnal mind was not sustaining His existence; Christ was sustaining His existence. That is what He is talking about in verse 57.

And please note, also, that the Scripture says, "As the living Father." You know, I never noticed that before, "As the living Father." Well, if there is a living Father, then there must be a --

            Dead father.

A dead father.


Who [?the?] dead father?

            The devil.

The devil.


If your daddy is the devil, he is dead, and if he is dead, you dead too, never saw that before. As the living Father has sent me, and I live because the Father has birthed His mind in Me or begotten His mind in Me: so he that eateth or partaketh or ingests Me, even that man shall live because I shall beget the mind of the Father in him," and that is a promise that we do not have yet. I have the mind of Christ growing in me. I think everybody here has the mind of Christ. We have the kingdom of God growing in us, but the sitting queen has not yet been beheaded off of our soul. She has to be cut off; we are going to be guillotined. She must be unseated so that Christ can sit down as the sitting king, and the Scripture says, "He -- I saw Him, and He was sitting down at the right hand of the Father." He has to be sitting on our soul; our soul is a throne. Jesus.

Verse 58, "This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: but he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever." So we see in verse 58, the first word translated eat is the word that really means to eat, and it means they covered themselves or they fed themselves or they sustained themselves temporarily with manna, and therefore they are dead, apothnesko. They died unconverted. But he that eateth -- here that different Greek word, he that partaketh of this bread, meaning the spiritual life of Jesus, shall live forever. If you partake of His soul life, it covers you temporarily.

If you partake of His spiritual life, you live forever because He who is joined to the Lord is one spirit. So with the Holy Ghost, you partake of His soul life, but with the -- with Christ Jesus growing out of you, you partake of His spiritual life, and eternal life is in the spiritual life of the Son. There is no eternal life in the soul life of the Son, and the soul life of the Son is the glorified Lord Jesus Christ, whom we know as the Holy Ghost. There it is, clear as a bell. If you have ears to hear, hear it.

And I am going to say it again because there is someone that is sure to twist my words or misunderstand me. The Holy Ghost is good. You should get the Holy Ghost. You should take everything that comes from God, but do not stop there. Look, brethren, if you hit 5 years old, you do not want to spend the rest of your life as 5 years old; you want to become an adult, Lord willing, and partake of human adulthood and all the good things involved. And who wants to be 5 years old all your life? You have to keep on going. OK.

We are now up to verse -- well, they are still murmuring at Him in verse 61. These Pharisees, they never stop murmuring. They do not like what He said. Carnal men tend to dislike what spiritual men say. It distresses them; it upsets them; it causes grief to their carnal mind; it makes them uncomfortable. And because they are carnally minded men, they just assume that there is something wrong with that guy over there. Why? Because he is making me uncomfortable. There cannot possibly be something wrong with me, so there is got to be something wrong with him. These are the thoughts of th- -- carnally minded man. I know I am OK, so there must be something wrong with him.

So Jesus, knowing what they were saying, said to them: Does this offend you that I am telling you that I have the ability to give you eternal life, that you have to partake of My life, that your life cannot keep your own soul alive? Pride. Does this offend you? Does this stir up your pride, that you need Me?

I remind you of another Scripture where Jesus is telling us about the reaction of the carnally-minded man saying we shall not have this man to rule over us. You are more likely to hear it around the church circles as it is just me and the Lord; I do not need any of the authorities He has raised up. You hurt my feelings; you wounded me; you offended me; you made a mistake. And I do not need you, and I do not need your meetings, and I do not need your teaching. It is just me and God. Oh, really? It is just you and God until that stick comes down across your back, and He is going to put you right back under an authority because you are filled with pride and rebellion, and you need to be corrected and taught.

And God teaches through men. God has an order; He does not teach every individual. He sits you down in companies on the grass. He has a fivefold ministry. And we are having a big problem in our public schools today: Kids are graduating, and they cannot read and write because they cannot sit in the chair and learn. There is no discipline or a minimum of discipline in the school. There is a discipline problem in the school. Well, guess what? First in the natural and then in the spiritual. There is a discipline problem in God's church, and His children do not want to sit down and learn, so they are out there in the world getting booted around for a few years until they are ready to sit down under an authority because their pride makes them want to be a chief honcho and a teacher when they cannot even read. They want to show you how much they know. God knows how much you know. Knowledge is not the be-all, end-all.

You have to learn how to submit and how to get along with your brethren, how to submit one to the other, how to function in a group. You cannot make it in this world on academics alone. I am telling you, you could be a brilliant genius. You can have a law degree and five other degrees, and if you cannot learn how to function in a corporation or in a law firm, if you cannot submit to the partner that has a greater authority than you do. If you do not know how to treat a secretary or a young associate lawyer, you may not be able to find yourself a job or a practice. Your brains are not enough. You cannot be an animal in this world; you have to be socialized. And the man that is less brilliant than you are but who has the social skills will make it before the brilliant person. If you are brilliant and you cannot sit in your chair and learn, maybe you will never get your degree.

You have to be socialized; it is more important than your brains. A socialized child who is taught to endure, to apply themself, to study can go much further than a brilliant child who has emotional problems because he is rebellious and cannot function in society. You just cannot be beating people up continuously. You must work with people; you have to live with people; you have to function and interact and submit to the -- the what is best for the group. You cannot be doing what is best for yourself all the time. You have to give it up so that the group prospers, so that the group is healthy, so that the group survives. [AUDIO CUTS OUT]

-- [INAUDIBLE] [?asked?] the Pharisees in verse 61, is what I am saying offending you, that I am of a higher spiritual order than you are, that you need Me? That really bothers your pride, Pharisees. You thought you were the be-all, end-all, and you are thinking who do I think I am. Well, guess what? I have something even more shocking to tell you. If this offends you, how in the world will you react to Me telling you that the Son of man, verse 62, shall ascend up to where He was before?

Now if you recall our teaching on the Son of man, I think it was on the last message. The Son of man, anybody want to try that? Who is the Son of man?

            [INAUDIBLE] the emphasis being on the Son means that He is male, and so His Father has to be God.

Excellent, that is it, OK. If His Father was not God, He would be the daughter of man. So Jesus is saying to the Pharisees, if what I just told you, that you have to partake of My life, that I have a life that is actually superior to yours, if that offends you, what are you going to say when I tell you that I am the Son of man, that Fa- -- My -- see, the Pharisees knew that that meant that His Father was God, and we are told in another place that they were very offended that Jesus was saying His Father was God. They are saying, who do you think you are to say your Father is God?

So Jesus is saying, what are you going to say when I tell you My daddy is God, and because My daddy is God, I am ascending up to the high spiritual realm, where I was in the past age. The King James says before, but if you look that up in the Greek, He is really saying in the previous age, the age before the fall. He is talking about perfection. He says, you are not going to like that. If you do not like the first thing I said, if you do not like Me telling you that I have the power to give you eternal life, what are you going to say when you hear that I am ascending back up to where man was before the fall?

Verse 63, and He goes on to teach them, "It is the spirit that makes alive." The Greek word translated quickeneth means to make alive. "It is the spirit that makes alive; the flesh or the soul life profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and therefore there is life in them." The soul life or the flesh profiteth nothing, but the words that I speak to you, they are spirit, and they have the power to penetrate your soul; they have the power to implant themselves into you and reproduce themselves in your soul, and they have the power to give you life.

Now I would like to point out to you something controversial here. He is not clarifying whose soul life He is talking about in verse 63 where He says the flesh or the soul life profiteth nothing. It is the spirit that quickeneth. And I want to suggest to you that He is even going back to the previous verses where we found out that He is saying the Holy Spirit -- well, that is not a good translation. It says profiteth nothing. He is not saying that the Holy Spirit has no value, but what He is saying is that the Holy Spirit cannot give you eternal life. That is what He is saying. The flesh -- even the flesh of the Lord Jesus Christ cannot give you eternal life; it is Christ Jesus, Christ in you, the hope of glory, that gives you eternal life.

So I suggest to you there is a hidden message to the church in there. Even though Jesus is speaking to the Pharisees and He is telling them your flesh or your carnal mind profiteth nothing, it is the Spirit of God that gives life, but I am telling you there is a double meaning there. If you recall the last message, we found out that Jesus not only speaks in parables, but He also speaks in double entendres. He speaks with double meaning. I suggest to you that there is a double meaning there. Even the soul life of the Lord Jesus Christ is only a temporary Band-Aid. You have got to digest Him and swallow Him down. You have got to have the imparted anointing. The Son must be being reproduced in you if you want to enter into eternal life.

And He says the words that I speak, they are not My soul life; they are are out of My Spirit. They are right out of the mind of Christ, and they are life because they have the power to engraft to you and produce or reproduce that life in you. Verse 64, "But there are some of you that do not believe." And we are told, "For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should" -- well, the King James says who should betray Him, but the Greek says who was already betraying Him. Jesus knew the thoughts of men. He knew what men were thinking. He knew what they were thinking in their conscious mind, and He knew what they were thinking in their unconscious mind. He knew who were receiving the truth of His words. He knew who did not believe, and He knew who had it in their heart to betray Him. Some of them were plotting to betray Him. Some of them He just knew had the potential to betray Him. He knew what was in every man's heart.

And I want to tell you, brethren, that I have prayed for years, and I still pray that God permit me to be a vessel of honor, that I would rather be persecuted than be used to bring down a man of God. And I want to tell you that every single one of us has the potential to be used to bring down the man of God, and if you do not think that is true, you are making a big mistake. And you need to know that it is true so that you can pray the appropriate prayer if you desire to pray it, that you would rather be the persecuted one than the one used to be Judas because every one of us is capable of it.

And I remind you, when Jesus told His disciples the one who puts the sop -- puts the bread in the sop with Me, he is the one who betrays Me. And all the disciples said to Him, Lord, is it I? They all knew that they were capable of betraying the innocent blood, so if you do not think that you are capable of it, you are at a great disadvantage. If you do not think you are capable of it, you will not pray properly. And, conversely, as Christ begins to come forth in you, if you do not believe that the people that you minister to and the people that you love and the people that you are laying down your life for have the potential to betray you, you are a foolish teacher. By the time you are a teacher, you need to know; you need to have a little more wisdom than that. You need to know that everyone you are ministering to has the potential to betray you.

Why do you need to know that? Is it t- -- is it for self-preservation? No, it is not for self-preservation. You need to know it so that you can pray them through. You need to know it so that you can forgive their sins. You need to know it so that you can minister the life of God to them as the Lord Jesus Christ shows it to you. Because no matter how many times they betray you, no matter how many times they bring you down, no matter what they do to you, if you area faith- -- truly a faithful servant of God, you will rise every single time. You will rise; you will rise again.

So Jesus knew what was in the heart of men. He knew that it was going to be Judas. Now [UNINTELLIGIBLE] -- in Jesus' case, He said He only lost one because that was the fulfillment of the Scriptures, and it had to be, but I am believing God in this New Covenant that everyone that is truly training up to be a Son under Christ can be prayed through by the head that God places over them. And until God tells me otherwise, that is what I am believing, and it is the job of the minister to be discerning your sin so that we can forgive your sin, so that we can pray you through. Discern your sin; forgive your sin, and instruct you in righteousness so that you can live and not die.

Verse 64, "But there are some of you that do not believe" -- OK, we did that already. Verse 65, "And then Jesus said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto Me, except it were given unto him by My Father." No man can make a decision for Christ. You can run up to 16 million altars and have 16 million men of God lay hands on you; you have nothing to say about whether or not you are coming unto Christ, OK. You do have something to say about whether or not you come unto the Holy Ghost, but you cannot translate yourself into Christ if you desire it, neither can you run away from being translated into Christ if the Father has called you. You have nothing to say about it.

Now I want to point out a deep meaning here in verse 65. Jesus said, and this is why I said to you no man can come unto the Father except [UNINTELLIGIBLE] -- come unto Me, except it were given unto him by the Father. What does He mean? He is going back to verse 64 where He says, for Jesus knew from the beginning who were they that were in unbelief and who were they that would betray Him, and I want to suggest to you that it was every single one of them. Therefore, Jesus said, no man can come unto the Father -- or come unto Me, except the Father draw him because you are all a bunch of dirty, rotten sinners.

So what a nerve, running around saying I made a decision for Christ. You fool, who do you think you are? Confess your pride, and repent quickly, for judgment is already headed in your direction. My Bible says that judgment will come and that it is starting with the church and the elders thereof. You think you have made a decision for Christ; you have made yourself the master, and you have made him your servant, your sugar daddy, gift-giver, Cadillac and new house.

I knew somebody once. She prayed, and she prayed, and she prayed, and she prayed, and she prayed. She thought she was entitled to a house because she was a Christian, and she got the house. I am not quite sure God gave it to her, but she got the house, and then she got mad because the people that lived across the street had a furnished house, and her house was not furnished. And it just went on and on and on and on, and we see it all over the church today, Christians that are really little white witches running around, casting their spells, trying to make God give them what they want Him to give them. But Jesus said I came not to do My own will, but I came to do the will of the one who sent Me.

Now you will get everything you pray for when your -- what you want lines up with the will of God, and if what you want does not line up with the will of God, you are into witchcraft. When you are putting your will into that prayer, it is a psychic prayer, and you shall be corrected in due season when the Lord gets around to it. Do not be delivered because judgment does not fall from God as quick as lightning; He will get around to you.

You know, years ago when they used to have corporal punishment in the schools or even in families, when they used to have corporal punishment, the father or the schoolmaster would say, well, now you just go in that room, and you sit there. I will be there in about an hour, and for what you did, it is 40 paddles or 20 paddles, and you would have to just sit around waiting for that corporal punishment, knowing that it was coming. Well, do not be a fool thinking that God is not going to chastise you for your witchcraft; He is coming. He will get there sooner or later. He will get there fast enough.

So verse 65, Jesus is saying, "No man can come unto Me." No man can be converted into Christ unless he is given permission by the Father. In another place in the Book of Hebrews, it says, well, if the Lord permit, let us go on to perfection, if the Lord permit. Stop making fools out of yourselves, all you spiritual women and children. You have no power. God is just winking at you because He thinks you are cute at 3 years old, but you are about to be 13 real soon, and that is the age of manhood, and He is not winking anymore. He is coming, looking for your behind.

Verse 66, "From that time many of His disciples went back, and walked no more with Him." Verse 67, "Then said Jesus unto the 12, Will ye also go away?" Please note the two different English words which are translations of two different Greek words. The disciples went back and walked with Him no more, but Jesus said to the 12 or to the apostles, "Will you also go away?" Jesus said one thing to the disciples, and He said something else to the apostles. He said to the disciples who did not know any better; He said to the disciples who were weak; He said to the disciples who had the Band-Aid covering of Christ that they walked away. They went another way, and they did not walk His path anymore. But to the apostles whom He had given power over sicknesses and devils, to the apostles who had Christ being formed in them, He said to them, "Will you" -- the Greek word means will you go away, Strong's 5217, implying choice. And another translation of that word is -- that word can imply departing from life.

So the apo- -- what we are told here is that the apostles had Christ in them, so when you have Christ in you, to go away from the Lord is to die spiritually, but the disciples did not have the life of Christ, so they just want on another path. It is much more serious to take a path apart from Jesus when you are just a disciple, when you have the Holy Ghost. It is much more serious to depart from Him when you have Christ being formed in you. The Lord calls that spiritual death. Now, of course, when you have Christ being formed in you, you are a Son, so if you try to get away, He is probably going after you. He does not go after -- He is not likely to go after you when you have the Holy Ghost because you are not a Son, and He does not correct you if you are not a Son. He lets you go.

Verse 68, "Then Simon Peter answered Him saying, Lord, to whom shall we go? Thou hast the words of eternal life." The Greek word translated words means the spoken words, saying no one else is teaching what You are teaching. To whom shall we go? "And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answered them, Have I not chosen you 12, and one of you is a devil?" Just one second.

Verse -- back in verse 69, "And we believe and are sure that thou art the Christ." The Greek word translated sure means that we believe this because of the experiences we have had with you; it is not an intellectual believing. We have experienced the power of Your resurrect- -- well, He was not resurrected yet. We have experienced the power of Your life, so we are therefore sure that You are the Son of God. That was what Peter said, and Jesus said, "Have I not chosen you 12, and one of you is a devil?" Now that word is not demon; that word is not daimonia; it is devil. And what that means, brethren, it is very simple, is that this man was living out of his carnal mind. Judas Iscariot was living out of his carnal mind. Now I do not know whether it means, for whatever reason, Christ was not formed in this man, in Judas, or whether Christ was formed in him, but he was still living out of his carnal mind. I do not know what it means, but when Jesus called him a devil, what that says to me is he was a carnal man. He was one of the 12 apostles, but he was not Christ; he was a carnal man. The devil is the carnal man. The devil is the carnal mind; that is who he is.


OK. You know, God caught me up to a very high place the other day, and what I am going to tell you is probably going to sound very funny to you. And I knew that as I was saying it -- Rita was there. I knew that as I was saying it, it sounded very funny, but I do not even know if Rita really entered into what I was saying, but I knew that it was Christ in me, and I was just in a very high place. We were sitting in a bagel store, looking out through the window, and it came to me that even the f- -- existing fivefold ministry is preaching lies about the devil. They are preaching he is this red guy; they are telling you he is one man. He is -- and they will tell you clearly he is not omnipotent; he is not everywhere. He is only in one place; he is a single individual. And they have all kinds of stories about how he operates through his demons, and he is red, and he has horns, and he has a tail.

And I looked out the plate glass window, and I said even the fivefold ministry is preaching these doctrines of demons, but I know who Satan is. There he goes. There was a man walking down the street. There he goes; it is Satan. I know what he looks like. There is another one; there he goes. He is all dressed up in a $400 suit, carrying an attaché case, but that is Satan. There he goes; there is another one. The secret is out. And Rita said that is just a little old lady. I said that is a little old lady Satan. That is what we are, but we are being adopted, you see.

We are Satan because our father is Satan, but we are being adopted by the Father God, and our name shall be erased from Satan. The name Satan shall be erased, and a new name -- we are told in the Book of Revelation a new name is being given unto us, Christ, but right now every person you see walking down the street is a manifestation of Satan. I do not care what kind of clothes they are wearing; I do not care what kind of makeup they have on; I do not care how nice their hair looks; I do not care if they are wearing deodorant; I do not care if they are rich; I do not care if they are educated; I do not care who or what they are; I do not care what kind of human credentials they have. They are the offspring of Satan, the daughter of Babylon. I do not care how many good works they have done; every one of them has the potential to kill Christ.

Now when I say kill Christ -- I do not want someone catching me on this -- what I mean is to come against Him and kill a manifestation of Christ Jesus that is still a seedling, every human being alive, including the men in whom Christ Jesus is growing. Why? Because we are all murderers. How do I know that? Jesus said it. He said your father was a murderer from the beginning, and every man who has a carnal mind which is not brain-dead is a poten- -- is a murderer. We murder with our thoughts every day.

Well, I co- -- I have more prepared, but I just feel that this has just been a big strain on all of you. I do not know whether it is because the anointing has been so thick

            Yeah. The -- what you said about knowing who is going to -- about Judas Iscariot. He betrayed Jesus, but you s- -- it is neither for self-preservation that Jesus knew that he was going to betray Him. I know that, neither is it for -- to save His life because He said it would be better for a millstone to be tied around His neck and cast into the sea. He did not pray for Him or anything, so I am just curious to know what was the reason that Jesus knew. I mean, if I think about it hard enough, I guess, I could figure it out, but I would like to know what you have to say about it.

Jesus said that the only reason that He lost Judas Iscariot was that the Scripture should be fulfilled, and that is why He did not pray for him. Jesus knew because He knew all things. The Lord says He does not do anything except He tells His prophets. Jesus knew the whole story about what would happen to Him.

            So then that could also happen to the sons of God today?

I --

            [CROSSTALK] you would just know because they know.

Well, yeah. I have -- I am -- I move in that to a large degree. I do not have -- obviously, I am not in full stature, and I am not where Jesus was, but I have a lot of knowledge.

            And so --

I know all kinds of things that I never tell people.

            And it is not for -- necessarily for to pray for them all the time.

Well, [?it?] [CROSSTALK]

            That is what I am saying.


            Could it be the same situation where it is not for self-preservation or it is not to pray for the- -- for -- and pull them through; it is just that you know.


            It could happen [CROSSTALK]

Well, it -- yes, some things I just know, but lots of times, I know so -- the Lord wants me to pray. Almost every knowledge He gives me, I eventually wind up praying about. The only reason Jesus did not pray for Judas was that the Lor- -- it was the Lord's intention that he -- that Judas should betray Him.

So it is possible that some people could come through the life of a son who are not called and are going to pass out of this world, and yet they were brought in and just, completely, they betrayed them or were used of Satan?

Well, I do not have any personal word from the Lord on that, but until I hear otherwise, I do not receive that. I believe that this is the New Covenant and that God is full well able to bring everybody through. What happened with Judas was that at that time, it was necessary that Jesus be betrayed and physically crucified. In this hour, it is not necessary that the sons be physically crucified. And there is spiritual betrayal. Now I have been betrayed by a lot of people [AUDIO CUTS OUT] -- and but what has [INAUDIBLE] [AUDIO CUTS OUT] been the result of the betrayal, I have grown. I matured, and as far as the other people are concerned, well, you cannot always tell what God is doing with them. You know, sometimes He puts people on the back burner for five or 10 years. You cannot be drawing conclusions that they are punished and they are never going to come back again. You really should not be thinking like that unless God tells you, you know.

So I have been betrayed by a lot of people, but look at what it has done. It has made me what I am today. I would not be what I was today if I was not betrayed and if I did not overcome by the power of Christ, if I did not forgive them and go on with my walk with the Lord. But [UNINTELLIGIBLE] -- because I know what your question is, and I want to make this very clear to you that this is my opinion. I have not heard from the Lord on this, but it is my opinion that I do not care what it is you do or how bad you mess up, in this hour, it is no longer necessarily to betray a son of God to the point that he has to be given over to the authorities. And I believe that everyone that Christ is appearing in is going to come through, and I -- that is what I believe, and I am not going to believe anything else unless I get a personal word from the Lord, which I have not gotten, so I do not care what you have done, and I do not care how Satan has used you to try an upcoming son, OK. You may have been a vessel of dishonor in that once circumstance, but you are a vessel of honor in another circumstance, and I believe that the end of you is that y- -- is that wickedness is going to be swallowed up in you. And that -- I take that position, and I am not going to waver on it at this point.

            [INAUDIBLE] that is what you feel.

That is what I believe.

            Like, if I was a son and somebody came through my life and tried me and say did -- you know, betray me or something severe and now is gone and I never see that person again and they -- is the end result because they were -- if I was a son in touch with my life and that there was life given to them even though they betrayed me and they were out of my life now, will they still  [UNINTELLIGIBLE] -- the end result will be, to them, salvation?

Well, I do not know. You know, like, there are some people in my mind that I think about a lot, and one person I have in particular, it was the first person to betray me. I did not know I had to be betrayed then, so it was a big shock. When I am betrayed now, it is really nothing bi- -- no big deal for me because that is just the way of life. But this was the first person that ever betrayed me, and we were very close, and I recall when it happened. They bounced out of the ministry, OK, and as far as I know, right now, they are leading a -- you know, a carnal life. They are Christians. They go to church. They are not in a deep ministry like this, but God did not kill them, you know. He did not destroy them or do any -- He did not burn them up, and they are living their life.

And I recall that there was a prophecy to this person, that they would be amongst the first to ascend, and I think about it a lot. And I am just trying to understand the ways of God, and that is not easy to understand the ways of God. So the only explanation that I have right now in my heart is that the first to ascend, the people who are -- who God calls the first group to ascend -- people could be ascending for 20 or 30 years and still be a part of the firstfruits company. We have to get out of our carnality. To think that the firstfruits company will be standing up within a week, that is being carnal; it is being spiritually naïve. So we could see this firstfruits company coming forth for 20 or 30 years, and so maybe He is going to do whatever He is going to do with them.

I know the person that I have in mind, they have done a lot of wickedness to a lot of people and not just me, you know. They hurt a lot of people, people that love God, you know. It is dangerous to do -- to be -- do dirty things to people that love God, like steal their business from them and steal the -- you know [UNINTELLIGIBLE] -- a man that has a family and a child to support, and to rob him of his interest at a business [UNINTELLIGIBLE] -- I mean, they have done serious stuff, you know. People who were -- Christians who were in a deep ministry like that, and I do not see any judgment falling on them that I know of, so it is God's business, you know. But they are not -- I mean, He did not kill them. They are -- and not they are out of the church. They still have a relationship with Him, so that means restoration is always possible in God's timing.

And the way it looks to me right now is that, in the right team, you know, He will bring them to repentance --


-- and they will have to make restitution to that other person. [UNINTELLIGIBLE] they did not steal my money, but they really ruined a family man; they really ruined him. And they are going to have to make up for it, however God tells them to do it, you know. The -- I -- there is a lot that I have to- -- I tell you all the time my weakest area is in understanding how God determines what someone's judgment will be. I have a very low margin of being able to foresee it. I just -- my mind just -- I am just not there in that area, you know. I cannot figure Him out, so I have stopped trying, and I just know that I have to be very careful. If somebody hurts me or somebody does damage to me, that it is God's business. That is His relationship with that person.


-- that my work is to forgive them and to go on. You know, I have enough --


-- trouble taking care of myself. I do not have to worry about what God decides His punishments is for that person. I have enough problems; I do not have to worry about that, you know.

            So what it sounds like is that -- if I heard you right, that if they come into your life and they are a vessel of dishonor and they just pass through your life and they go on somewhere with their life, that -- because you forgave them, even though you may never see them again, s- -- the Son will come forth in them at some point, or they will find salvation.

I see what you are saying, OK. I do not --

            If they were the vessel of dishonor --


            -- but they will be a vessel of honor later.

Well, not --

            That is what I am [CROSSTALK]

-- necessarily, OK. Let me clarify it for you. I see what you are asking me, OK. For example, if somebody betrays some- -- if somebody is in a deep ministry like this -- and what do I mean? That they are judging their own soul, that they are submitting to the correction, and they are going on with the process that is going to bring forth Christ in them. And they slip; they mess up, and they betray somebody. They hurt someone that is doing good to them, OK, but they do not bounce out of the ministry. They still stay in a place in Christ where they repent, and they are judging their own soul, and they go on. A person in that category, as far as I am concerned, they are just going to -- you just confess it and repent. There is no condemnation in Christ Jesus, and you go on, OK. That is one category of person.

The person that I was talking about is in another category because I saw God strip them of their anointing. I want to tell you it is an awesome thing to see God strip somebody of their anointing, to see somebody who could teach this message, sit in a meeting like this and cry because they could not understand what I was saying. They lost their mental power to understand what I was saying. To see somebody that prophesied in this ministry almost every service, could not bring forth a prophecy. They went from a spiritual elder to a [UNINTELLIGIBLE] -- to a -- like, a kindergarten disciple inside of a week. I want to tell you it is very frightening.

You see, God is not really judging His people yet; He still treats us like we are babies. But the kind of judgment we are going to see upon people that the Lord calls spiritual elders -- it is Hi- -- not my judgment; it is His judgment. It strikes fear in your heart. I want to tell you it -- I -- it struck fear in my heart, and I have seen it happen to a couple of people, but the -- with this one person, it was just awesome because they were really up there. They were teaching here, OK. Now this person bounce- -- I did not throw them out of the ministry, you know. God stripped them, and they left, and He moved them right out of the state, completely out of the area. And I do not about them; I do not know what God is going to do with them, except that there was that prophecy that they would be amongst the first to ascend. Now if it was not for that prophecy, I do not know whether God would save them or not. I do not know. They might be amongst the carnal church that just finished out their life in this world and passed on. I do not know. I really do not have a fully grasp of it, but what I do know --


-- is that He is not burning anybody in Hell forever.


-- and that the people -- this is a great contradiction. It looks to the carnal mind, that this person that I am talking about, that God has not judged them in any way. Well, He only judges you if you are a son, but He stripped that person of their anointing. Christ aborted in them. They sat right in this meeting, and Christ brought forth two witness- -- the Lord brought forth two witnesses that Christ was aborting in that person, one last warning, brought forth a -- gave a dream to that person's relative that Christ was aborting in them. And they still would not repent, and Christ aborted in them, so they are not being chastened because they are not a son. Christ died in them. Do you see the difference?


So I really [UNINTELLIGIBLE] -- as I said, it is my weakest area. I do not know. [CROSSTALK]

            Yeah. That seems like another category of what you were --


            -- saying about abortion. But I guess the -- I had the thought real clear, like, it is [UNINTELLIGIBLE] -- the question of whether the person that is manifesting Satan to the other person or the vessel of dishonor, is it for the purpose of perfecting the son solely sometimes, or is that the one that was the vessel of dishonor will also, through the experience -- if it is a passing experience and you do not see that son anymore, do they change later on in their years? Is it also for them, or is it just that some pass through this life being vessels of  dishonor?

Yeah. That is true.

            That is what I am asking.

Yeah, that is true.

            What is true?

That some people just pass through this life; they are vessels of dishonor.

            And they pass through this life.

And they pass through, you know. They --

            And they just try to sons?

Yeah. They -- there are --


-- some people that fit into that category, yeah.

            All right.

That is true.


To the best of my knowledge, that is true. How do I know that? Because I have heard of cases of people that have been used by Satan to betray men of God, and then they die, you know. And they are not saved; they are taken, just taken out of this world. So that is how I draw that conclusion, OK. [INAUDIBLE] [AUDIO CUTS OUT]

            -- then others come into the life of a son and be a vessel of dishonor, and they get stung by the son, right?


            And then they d- -- they cannot help but change.

Right. So who knows what God is going to do? I think most of you have heard my testimony about that witch that tried to kill me down in Harlem, and I did not die. And three years later, I asked the Lord whatever happened to him. Just out of curiosity I said, Lord, I would really like to know what happened to this man. Did You kill him? You know, what did You do to him? And shortly after I prayed that prayer, the Lord brought me on an evangelistic trip into Brooklyn, and there was that witch praising God in Brooklyn. And I do not have a good memory for faces, so I walked up the aisle, and I looked at him, and I really was not sure. I thought it was him, but I was not sure, and he turned around, and he gave me this big smile. He remembered me, you know, and I said, oh, wow. Lord, You are just too much, man. You never know what God is going to do.

            I just realized that I did not have the right definition of a vessel of honor or dishonor. To me, a vessel of dishonor was just someone chosen by God to do a lowly work. [INAUDIBLE]


            Cure the lepers in Calcutta or whatever.


            I never thought of it as -- I thought of it as a work, like, a dishonorable work. I used to pray, Lord, I do not care if You use me as a vessel of honor or dishonor.

Oh, take back that prayer.


Take back that prayer.

            I take back that prayer, Father. I really thought it had to do with serving God in a lowly place or a high place, as He saw fit, whatever it was that pleased Him.

Oh, no. That is not what it means, no. A vessel of dishonor dishonors God, you know. You can have a lowly job and be a vessel of honor. If your job is scrubbing the floors, if you do that job unto the Lord, that is a honorable job. It is -- labor is honorable, you know.

            Oh, I see, that was [CROSSTALK]

Yeah. Rita, OK. A vessel -- to be a vessel of dishonor is to try the Christ. You could talk if you want. Just please use the microphone. It is not fair to the people listening to the message that your voice comes out so low on the message. It is just not fair. It should not be; there is no reason for it. OK, Celia.

            Can you explain again what did Jesus have to -- it seemed like He so quickly put His carnal mind into the pit, chained it, you know. What did He have -- I know He was born with the Spirit of the Father, right?


            But what else did He -- is that why He had the power to do that so fast? I mean, you said that He had the Spirit of the Father. He had the teachings. Is that what gave Him the ability, or how did He do it so quickly? I mean, it is taking a lifetime for us to do this it seems.    

Well, it took Him a lifetime too. He was 30 years old when He did it.


He was a 30-year-old man who had been burned into a religious, Jewish family whose formal education started at 3 years old, so He had 27 years of training --


-- before He put His carnal mind down in the pit. And aside from the 27 years of training, He did not have the problems that most of us called to full stature have in that He ca- -- He was an Israelite who was born out of a line of holy people. And the curses were at a minimum; the inherited curses were an absolute minimum. Now --


Well, that is what the genealogies say. He came down --

            That makes a big difference.

That makes a big difference --


-- that the inherited curses were at an absolute minimum.

            So we are over -- we are getting delivered from our family line curses that enable our carnal mind to just continue --


            -- living.

Plus our own sin [UNINTELLIGIBLE] -- I mean, I do not believe He was engaged in any behavioral sin. I do not believe He ever fornicated. I do not believe He ever stole.

            Oh, right.

You know --


I do not believe He -- you know, I believe [CROSSTALK]

            It was just in His mind, that He overcame His mind.

It was just the sin in His mind, right.


I do not believe He did any behavioral sin, so He was at a -- way ahead of us. He had a great advantage over us today, especially those of us that were not raised in the church. You probably are the only one here that was raised in the church, you know, and most of us have had some be- -- [AUDIO CUTS OUT] I think it is on.

            Catholic mostly, right?

Yeah. I do not know.


I just know that most of the people that I see called to this ministry, they are first generation spirit-filled Christian, and we have done our thing before the Lord called us, you know, so it makes a big difference. And you are just second generation, right? Your mother was the first. Well, your father was never a Christian, OK.


And your mother, sh- -- was she first generation or second generation?

            She is second generation.

Yeah, but on your father's side --

            And who knows before that. I do not know about my great-grand- -- [CROSSTALK]

Right. And on your father's side, you know, he wa- -- he sti- -- you know, he is still not -- does not know the Lord. Jesus came out of many generations --

            On both sides [CROSSTALK]

-- on both sides of His family --


-- of people who kept the law of God.


So His curses were an absolute minimum.

            So there is a lot of things, yeah. Because even if you are brought up strict and in a Christian home, you still have the curses that are --

They go back 10 generations. You are accountable for 10 generations back.



            -- doctrines that are in there wrong, and they have to be straightened out. Maybe Jesus did not have any doctrines that were off.

No, the Jews had false doctrine.

            I am sure [?He did?].

The Jews had false doctrine.

            Oh, so He --

But they did not have --

            -- had to deal w- -- as a child, with hearing false doctrine then.



But what He did not have was the behavioral sin. He was -- as far as I know, He was perfect insofar as the keeping of the Mosaic laws. So that was counted unto Him as righteousness, and He did not have the sin in His soul. He did not have all these demons that we all need to be cast out of us; He did not have that. He was as pure as a man could be without the New Covenant, so -- and it took Him 27 years.

            So He did not have any demons?

Oh, I do not know about that. I think He must have had a few demons, you know.


So why, in the movies of Jesus' life, the writers and producers who have read the Bible, and some of these men we all know are good writers in some of these Christian movies that you see of Jesus, then how is it that they do not show sin, or are their minds just -- they do not go into it. Like, they -- the way that you teach this doctrine about Jesus. Do you --

Because most of them --

            They show such a good man, and He would touch somebody, and they would get up and drink a glass of milk and the whole nine.



            They do not show that sin in His mind that you see.

All of the writings about Jesus are after He ascended to full stature. There is very little told about Him before that because there is very little about it in the Scripture

            And because you have studied the history of Jesus to some fashion or another, you can come -- you can draw this conclusion that He --

I believe that He was not born perfect, OK. He was not born perfect. He was born a human being just like you and me, but He had something that we do not -- we did not have at birth; He was born with the Spirit of God. He was in a very similar condition to what we are in now, not the same but similar in that He had a carnal mind that He inherited from His mother, plus the mind of Christ that He got from His Father, God, and that the mind of Christ brought the carnal mind -- we are told in the Book of Romans, the mind of Christ that He got from His Father brought the carnal mind that He inherited from His mother into submission, and it brought -- it was the spirit of holiness in Him, which He got from His Father, that brought that carnal mind into submission. And He was caught up into the first stage of the resurrection. He overcame His carnal mind, and that is not commonly preached.

            This is be- -- this was before He was 30?

At 30 years old.

            Before [UNINTELLIGIBLE] -- all of that you just said was before He --

Was 30, yes.

            Right. So in Romans, there is a part in which they talk about Him before He reaches this age of 30?

In Romans?


You would have to show me the Scripture. I do not think so, but --

            I am asking you, so I am wrong.



There is very little spoken about Him in the Scripture before He was 30.

            Just like in the movie, right?

In which movie?

            Any of the movies you see Christ in.

They really do not talk about it.

            They show Him when He is 30.

Yeah. They show Him when He is acting as the Son of God, when He has become the Son of God. That is what all the movies and the books show Him as.

            So what does a regular church believe that He was before.

They believe He was born perfect.



See, the Bible refers to that holy thing that was in Mary's womb, so the carnal church thinks that that holy thing was the whole baby.


But what we are preaching here is that that holy thing was the Son of God, the mind of Christ, but the flesh part of Him was inherited from His mother who was a fallen woman.


            They do. On those movies, they do show -- and in the scenes, they show the baby with the aura of light around the head and everything, and it is like it is perfect, you know.


            And then the b- -- as a bo- -- 12-year-old boy, they show Him as perfect too and just full of love and light, you know. But He wa- -- He did have a strong anointing on Him, I think, even at birth, if He had the Spirit of the Father in Him, right? But He was not perfect. They showed Him as perfect --

Well --

            -- just like Mary too. You know, it is -- it must be Catholic origin.

It is Catholic because the Catholics say that Mary was perfect, you know, and she [UNINTELLIGIBLE] -- they have to have a reason for Him being perfect, so they say that Mary was perfect, but Mary was not perfect, you know. So, you know, their doctrine -- as far as I am concerned, the church doctrine does not make any sense. This doctrine makes a lot of sense because if He was born perfect, what happened to all the sin that He inherited from His mother, you know? But it is a deep teaching, you know; they cannot deal with it.

            Even so, to hear you say that Jesus had a couple of demons, it --

It is shocking.

            -- throws me, yeah. It is shocking because when I think of Jesus, I just think --


            -- what? The Lord had a few demons. You have got to be kidding me.

Jesus the man. You see, you have to --

            Jesus the man, before He came into full stature.

You have to check out your names. Right.


You have to check out --


-- your names. Jesus the man -- I mean, I think everybody has one or two demons. You have to recognize the difference between Jesus and Christ. We have a whole series on that, if you recall. There is a difference. [UNINTELLIGIBLE] -- when you read in the Scripture, Jesus, it is talking about the man. When you talk about Christ, it is talking about the Son of God, OK. Jesus the Christ is Jesus the man after He became the Son of God, you see, so it gets a little complicated, but God can help you with it. But He was just a man, you see.

And when I taught that series on the Christ, I will tell you -- I will repeat what I said to you then. Your first reaction is shock because that is just your religious -- not just you, anybody. That is just your religious spirit coming up, that you are shocked.


But if you stop to think about it, it is a glorious message because He was a natural man, and He overcame His carnal mind by the power of God, and if He did it, the promise is that we are going to do it too.

            It makes --

It is hope for us.


Let me just add this in, please, because it is appropriate at this point. And I would also like to point out that the church has it backwards because they would be shocked at what I am saying now, that He was not born perfect, but they will tell you, without realizing what they are doing, that He was imperfect after He became the Son of God. And this is how they tell you, by inference, that He was imperfect: They tell you that this man who they call Christ was down on His knees, begging God to get off the cross in the garden. And I declare to you that no Son of God would be down on His knees begging the Father to get Him off the cross. And when we looked up every word in the Greek, we found out that that is not what He was doing in the Garden of Gethsemane. So I declare to you that the church, without realizing what they are doing -- it is just their false doctrine. They are saying that Jesus was perfect at birth and imperfect after birth.

And another thing, another part of their false doctrine is that they say Jesus, hanging on the cross, said, Father, why have You forsaken Me? But He was the Son of God who knew everything. He knew the Father did not forsake Him, and also to say, Father, why have You forsaken Me, is accusing God of forsaking Him. So the church, by their doctrine, implies that this man, who they are telling you is Christ, was acting like a carnal, imperfect man, so they just got it all mi- -- if you stop to think about it, they have got it all mixed up. Yeah?

            So do not -- why is it, in some churches, you will -- like, I asked someone once, a Ca- -- I wise being a wise, you know, and I knew the answer, but I asked it again. They say, well, why do you have Jesus? Because in my church, in the African Methodist church I grew up in, every Sunday morning the guy was on the cross, and you s- -- was nailed to the cross every -- you know, you could see this big, 12-foot white guy hanging like that. It was scary, you know. But I would ask. I would say, well, He is dead. Why is He on the cross? And then someone would say [UNINTELLIGIBLE] you know, they would say things like, He is -- they would not say He rose from the dead. That was never said.


            You know, it was like, well, He is dead -- no, this is what they would say to me, [?Mary?] [UNINTELLIGIBLE] never forget her. She is a big wom- -- big-boned woman, tall, big, black woman. She would say to me -- I would say, Ms. Mary, why is He still up there, you know, if He died? And she would say He is up there so we remember our sins. That is true, I mean, you know, when you think about it, I mean, right, a little bit?

Well, He is not up there. It is not true; it is a lie.


But He is not up there.


He rose from the --


Yeah, well, it does not really mean that, and He is not up there. He is alive. He is not dead, you know; He is alive. So it is just -- you know --


Yeah. You just have to -- you know, they are just in darkness insofar as doctrine goes because the Lord is implementing His salvation over a 2- -- you know, 2,000 or more year period, and while people are waiting for the fullness to come in, they just go through periods where they only have little pieces of His salvation.


Give that man the microphone.

            Why are they paying these ministers such nice salaries and to live wi- -- in a connection with the church, and you have got these educated people going to the m- -- well, [UNINTELLIGIBLE] [?that is why?]. They are in darkness.

Yeah, it is the professing church, you know. They are -- it is religiou- -- the religious systems of man, you know. God is in it, but it is the religious system of man.

            We do not have any knowledge at all about Jesus as a person, and I guess maybe the Lord does not want us to have it.

No, we are not supposed to have it because our personality does not count.


And the only thing -- the only part of us that is going to survive is th- -- what we do for Christ.

            The only thing is --

The Christ in us is all that matters.

            -- knowing -- that is true. But I -- just knowing that it -- from what you teach, I mean, it is not clear in the word too. It is not too clear.

What is that?

            That He was not perfect, you know.

No, it ha- --


It is a deep truth.

            So --

It has to be dug out.

            -- knowing this truth gives me the hope of attaining it because before I did not think it was attainable. I mean, you know [CROSSTALK]


            And that is what they taught us. Well, you will never be perfect on earth, you know. We just live out our lives, and then when we die, we go to be with the Lord in heaven. But it is -- that is -- you know, the Scriptures are just not clear. It -- that is what it looks like it is saying in the Scriptures.

Well, of course, that is the King James translation of the Scripture, but the spirit --

            Yeah. But there is no information at all that Jesus had demons, that Jesus had a carnal mind and that Jesus had a problem growing up. There is no indication at all, so it leaves us feeling like something that is totally unattainable, and we want to reach out in the sky to get it.

Except that when He -- when His -- when He disappeared and He was teaching in the synagogue, He did cause His parents anxiety.


Yes, so He was imperfect because if He was up to His Father's business, you know, it was not Christ saying to His carnal father and mother you should not have been upset; you should have known that I would be up to my Father's business. Because I know that I am a teacher from Christ, and I know the Lord's instructions to me for the people that I teach, and you do not talk to people like that. You do not say --


Yeah. You do not say you should have known; you teach them because obviously they did not know, and obviously they were upset, and obviously, if you were Christ -- I know, if that was me, the Lord would say to me, Sheila, you are Christ to these people, and you failed to give them the knowledge that they need, which would have given them peace of mind. You, as a leader, failed to minister to someone who was younger than you, so He was out of order, you know, and that was a certain side of imperfection, yeah.

            I just feel that why was He called man if He was not man. He was not three-quarters of a man or a half a man, but a whole man. So if He was not a man, why did they call Him a man?

Who said He was not a man?

No, I mean, well, He has to take all the characteristics of man, if He was called man.

He is a man.

            But, I mean, you know, as far as being a man then, He has to take on all the things that man has taken on, like demons and imperfections.

Oh, you mean fallen man?


F- -- yes. His mother was a fallen woman. He had to have at least one or two curses and one or two demons. He had to have it; it had to be.

            Here is another witness. In that same episode you were talking about, Sheila, about Jesus, and it ended in that chapter by saying, and He [UNINTELLIGIBLE] -- He had -- He grew in wisdom. In other words, He had to learn wisdom [CROSSTALK]

Right. He [UNINTELLIGIBLE] -- grew in wisdom and grace, right.

            So it was [UNINTELLIGIBLE] -- imparted into Him [CROSSTALK]

Right. It increased, and that is right, and -- well, I will not say that. Did you have another question?

            Oh, yeah. In some churches I have been in, man has portrayed Him on a cross, which none of us really know. I [UNINTELLIGIBLE] understand why [UNINTELLIGIBLE] -- why does man think like this now that, you know, I am trying to learn something. Like, His beard, like, in some of the statues [UNINTELLIGIBLE] I grew up in, He had a full beard. But if you went to a town called [?South Hall?] at the Baptist church, He did not have any beard. And Santa Claus was a white man, and Jesus was a white man. And where did they get all of this? Like, someone asked me, how do you serve a God that is a white man? [UNINTELLIGIBLE] a guy asked me this a long time ago. He was prejudiced though. How can you believe in God?

He is not a white man.

            I d- -- I know that.

He is a Spirit.

            But where do they get this? I d- -- you know --

He is a Spirit.

            I know that, but where do they get this color?

Oh, well, the man Jesus, OK, after the flesh, we are told, that His f- -- the flesh part of Him came from the seed of David, and the -- I believe that --


The Tribe of Judah, and I believe that the Tribe of Judah -- although some people say that some people from the Tribe of Judah are fairly dark; they are more like the Arabs, OK. But this was just the host vessel in which Christ, the spiritual Son of God, was growing, OK. Now Christ the spiritual Son of God is eventually going to be appearing in every human being on the face of the earth. It just so happened that the first man, the first cell of the body of Christ that He appeared in was white, but Christ is the -- a mind. He is Spirit, you see. So you are not serving a white God; you are serving a Spirit.

            I know that.

I did not answer your question?


OK. Ask me again.

            No. You answered it, but [INAUDIBLE] you answered the question.


            Oh. You answered the question, but you -- all I was asking was where did they get the color from, and you told me the [CROSSTALK]

From the Tribe of Judah.

            Tribe of Judah [INAUDIBLE]

But some people say --


-- He was dark like an Arabic.


Some people say.

            Muslims [CROSSTALK] black [?has very dark skin?].

Well, I doubt that He is --


Yeah. I doubt that --


Jesus? I doubt that He was black because He came down as a descendent of Shem. Hebrews were descendants of Shem, so I doubt that He was black. He may have been olive-skinned like an Arab, but the most important thing is that the -- that Jesus was a Son of God man who was not complete. The man of Jesus was in the first stage of resurrection.

He eventually was glorified, OK. That white body was swallowed up and converted into pure Spirit. Now He is a ball of light. When He appeared to Paul, He was a ball of light, so that white man was just a temporary stage. The Scripture likens it to a caterpillar on his way to becoming a butterfly. So man, and in particular European, white men who were mostly Christian when the religion first started, they made God in their own image; they made Him a white man. But God never ordained for this white man to be hanging on a cross. We are not supposed to be looking at Him, according -- there is not supposed to be any pictures of Him. Beard or no beard, we are not supposed to have pictures of Him; we are not supposed to have statues of Him. Nobody knows what He looked like because God does not want anyone to know what He looked like because that body that the Christ was living in does not exist anymore.

Now the Christian church, the carnal church will tell you that that white man is coming back again, but they are mistaken; He is not coming back again. That man, Jesus of Nazareth, does not exist anymore; His body was swallowed up. Do you know the story of the Mount of Transfiguration where it says that which was inside of Him, He started to glow, and He was a -- He was bright, white light because that which was inside of Him came to the outside on the Mount of Transfiguration. That body of that white man was swallowed up by that power that was inside of Him. It does not exist anymore.

So now what is coming back is that glorified Christ who appeared to Paul as a ball of light, and this time He has many bodies, not just one man; He has many bodies. He is appearing in this black man right over here, and He is appearing in this white woman right over here, and He is appearing in Chinese men and Indian women, OK. So it is really -- it is wrong to say that j- -- that Christ was white; it is a misunderstanding of the spiritual truth. Christ comes in all colors; He comes in all races; He is coming in men; He is coming in women. And He is coming in the -- across the whole spectrum of humanity. Did I answer your question?

            I knew all that.


            Well, I did not know that -- what would happen if you went to a Methodist church [INAUDIBLE] if you went into a regular church now where He was hanging on the cross. I assume they would probably call the police on you, but I want to hear it from a minister [UNINTELLIGIBLE] if you went over to the cross and you went to the verse in the Bible where it says He is appearing in man and also He appeared to Paul in a ball of light you said, right? What would happen if you went over there and just said this is crazy and knocked the cross down. What would they say to you? This is wrong [CROSSTALK]

They would probably call the police and put me in jail.


It is their property.

            Yeah. But you are showing them, at the same time [?in the material?], in the book [UNINTELLIGIBLE]

That is not Jesus' way.

            Well, I do not mean it.

It is their property; you do not destroy their property. [?I?] put you in jail.


Well, that -- the -- that --

            Why is so hard for people to understand it?

Because they --

            I did not grow up -- I mean, you know, I can believe it. Why cannot they believe it? [UNINTELLIGIBLE] studying the Word of God for years at churches --

Because --

            -- and --

-- you are special. And if you --


Let me give you something to think about, OK, because l- -- everybody goes through this. If you cannot believe that -- the answer to that question, that you are special, OK, it is the flipside of pride because the fact is that everybody cannot understand it, but you can.

            They will not.

They cannot. Did you not read -- did you --

            They can believe it. I am sure [CROSSTALK]

Listen, I just talked about it tonight. Listen, Jesus said no man can come unto Me unless --


-- the Father drags Him.


They cannot believe it.

            OK. Well, what about the one minister who is in his office there, got a cup of tea and coffee, and he comes across that verse? Seriously. And he says, oh -- he goes right into denial, ah, that is crazy. Somebody wrote that in. Man wrote that in; that is not true. He shuts it. And what about the next minister somewhere in -- 20 miles, 200 miles away? He comes across that verse, and years and years, and all these ministers come by this verse, and they all have to go to their little conferences together. They are all sitting there in denial because they all done read the same verse about Paul. You understand what I am saying?

It is not denial.

            I think some ki- -- they all know about it, but they do not want to admit it.

No, it is not denial. They are not -- they do not -- it is as if to say --

            They do not open this part of the Bible? Is that what you are saying?

Joseph, please, OK. You are striving with me. Listen, it is as if to say someone did not have a hand, and then when they cannot pick something up, you tell them then they are in denial. They are lacking a spiritual organ. You cannot eat if you do not have a mouth; you cannot talk if you do not have a tongue; you cannot pick up a book if you do not have a hand. They cannot understand spiritual things without Christ; they are lacking something.

            What are they not reading?

Pardon me?

            They are not reading something.

They are reading it with their carnal mind. They are lacking --

            So when they --

-- Christ.

            When they come to a verse like you -- we said in Paul, what goes through their mind after they finish reading it?

I have no idea. I do not really kn- --

            What do you assume?

-- want to know.

            Why not?

I am not interested, see. So --

            I just -- the reason I am asking and pushing it, I guess, a little is because I want to know myself. I mean, I would not -- I do not think I could go up to a minister and ask him why come you cannot believe this. And then he would say, well, who are you? Who do you think you --

Well, it is just witchcraft and pride in you that wants -- and everybody goes through this.

            I am just curious to know.

Every young Christian --

            I just want to know what is it about them, why they cannot believe.

Every young Christian goes through this. You want them to believe what you want them to believe, and you cannot.

            No, I [UNINTELLIGIBLE] -- excuse me.


            [UNINTELLIGIBLE] something is wrong here. I would never -- personally, I do not know about other young Christians. I would never personally go up to a minister and ask him about this verse in Paul, but I am trying to get information from you for my own benefit. It is -- why -- you know, the question I asked you. Why is it so hard for them to believe this?

I answered you already.

            So then why [CROSSTALK]

You cannot believe it with your carnal mind.

            Yeah. But you just said something to me that -- what did you say?

Because there is a spirit in you that is manifesting right now that is not Christ, and it is pride, and it is witchcraft, and everybody passes through this. Every new Christian has this: They want to go out, and they want everyone to believe what they believe.

            I do not want them to. I am just asking about the ministers.

Yeah, but I am telling you that there is a spirit manifesting that is not Christ. Now maybe you think that you are just asking a question, but I am telling you that there is a spirit manifesting in you, that, really, if you could get away with it, would force all of them to believe this doctrine, that that is what is operating there. And that is what a spirit of witchcraft is, and every young Christian goes through it. [UNINTELLIGIBLE] I passed through it; everybody passes through it. And it is just something that you have to pass through because, at some point, the Lord is going to give you the reve- -- the understanding in your heart, not in your head but in your heart, that you cannot do anything except it is Christ in you doing it. And it is called dying to self; that is all. And we are also instructed by the Lord in another place to stop looking at other people and just put our eyes on ours- -- on improving ourselves because we all need improvement, yeah.


Yeah. Well --


OK. I would like to drop it by asking you to please pray about it because I am telling you it is not just a question; it is a wrong spirit in you.

            I can deal with that


So why would I be saying that to you, that it is a wrong spirit? So that the man of sin can be exposed in you, so that you can recognize him and cast him down, so that you could go on to be a Son of God.

            Quit whining about these other --

Yeah. Look at yourself.         

Because when God does bring forth a mature Christ in you, OK, then you are going to have the spiritual authority to go talk to these guys and sting them with the stinger of Christ, and through that stinger goes the seed into their heart, which will give them the mind of Christ which will make them understand. So if you put your eyes on yourself right now.  OK. And Christ will raise you up --


So that you will be a tree with seed within yourself, and then you will be able to help them.


Devil, we put you on notice. Your days are numbered. We say unto you, You have been weighed in the balances, and you have been found wanting. We declare you publicly to be the enemy of the living God and the Lord's Christ, and those of us which are of us His body stand against you. We defeat you, and we bring you down. We curse your water spirits. We defeat the power of your witchcraft and your voodoo and your jezebel.

I really do not even care where you are coming from; I do not care if you are coming from Africa; I do not care if you are coming from the coven down in Port Jeff; I do not care I you are coming from my best friend's mind. We curse you right down to the pit, and we put you under our feet. We break your curses, and we send you back to the head of the sender, that they might be chastised and corrected. And if you are in a believer's mind, let that believer learn to police his own carnal mind. Everybody is responsible for the sin in their mind. If you are deliberately sent, we send you back that you should learn not to blaspheme against the church of the living God.

We, nevertheless, pray for your salvation, but you shall not be free to exercise criminal, spiritual power. We break your power. We shut off the taps. We turned back the running water. We throw mud on your water. Water spirits, we bring down all the mermaids. We strip your scales and your tail off. We utterly immobilize you in the authority of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Nocturnal spirits, visitation of sexual perversion and sexual harassment and hasslement [sic] and spiritual rape, we curse you, and we curse your works, and we cast you down to the pit, and we send the blood of Jesus against you to drive you back. We cancel your assignments, and if you have been deliberately sent, we send you back to the one who sent you to complete your assignment upon them. We loosen confusion in your camp. We loose division in your camp. We break your lust potions. We break your power to generate lust to people who are trying to live holy for Christ. We break you down. We dilute you, and we utterly crush your power in the authority of the Lord Jesus Christ.


Perverse spirits, we crush you, and everything that is been dispatched, we send you one against the other. Incubus, succubus, masturbation, lust, all of you, self-destruct in the authority of the Lord Jesus Christ. Jesus [SPEAKING IN TONGUES] Jesus.

According to the vision that was given unto [UNINTELLIGIBLE], we bring down every witch out of the sky. The vision was a sky filled with witches. We bring you down. We burn your brooms. We utterly bring you down to the dust, oh, thou daughter of Babylon. We strip you of your spiritual power and bring you in submission to the Christ.

And that one big witch that was seen flying in the sky, we utterly shoot you down and strip you of your authority. We cut off your communications with Satan. We separate you from your source of strength in the name of Jesus, and we utterly condemn you and defeat you and nail you and pin you to the walls. We pull you down out of the sky. You shall not ascend above us and send missiles and bombs against the body of Christ, but you shall bend your knee, for the Scripture says, "Every knee shall bow, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord."

And you shall come down to the earth, and you shall be nailed to the earth, and you shall bend your knee, and you shall serve the living God for your day is over, saith the Lord. For my sons have resisted you, saith God, and they have been victorious, every last one of them. And I shall punish you, saith the Lord, and I shall do as they ask. I shall strip you of your power, saith the Lord, and I shall send you back to the evil which has dispatched you, saith God.

And I shall work all things for the good of My sons, saith the Lord, and they shall grow as a result of your attack, and they shall increase. And Christ shall arise, and you shall be defeated for My sons shall appear on the face of the earth, saith the Lord, and they shall bring the government of Christ into the earth, and He shall reign. And you shall be stripped, saith the Lord, and you shall bend your knee, and you shall confess with your mouth that Jesus Christ is Lord. And there shall be peace in My holy mountain, saith God, as I have prophesied by the holy prophets of old.

08/31/15 Transcribed by VerbalFusion

09/02/15 1st Edit CAS/BP

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Pastor Vitale's Bio

Sheila R. Vitale is the founding teacher and pastor of Living Epistles Ministries and Christ-Centered Kabbalah. In that capacity, she expounds upon the Torah (Scripture) and teaches Scripture through a unique Judeo-Christian lens.

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