Part 4 of 7 Parts
The Following Message Has Been Transcribed For
Clarity, Continuity Of Thought, And Punctuation By
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This is Romans 8, Part 4. I had thought that we would finish this out with Part 4, but that is not the way it is going. We have three verses tonight: verses 28, 29 and 30. So it will be at least one more message, perhaps two more.
Recap, Romans 8:18-27, “Nevertheless because the Lord has given us the hope” -- could you give me a little more volume over there, please? OK, thank you. “Nevertheless because the Lord has given us the hope that Christ will subject the one who subjected us, I believe that the calamities of this present age are nothing in comparison to what we shall experience when the Spirit of God is revealed in us.
“And the creature shall be freed from the slavery of corruption into the glorious freedom of the children of God.
“Therefore we know that since neither the Father nor the man desired that the creation be subjected to Satan,
“The whole creature is groaning until this present time with the labor pains that are preceding the birth of the Sons, which God is eagerly expecting.”
Verse 23, “And indeed not only the whole creature, but we also have labored so that Christ could be formed in us and are patiently waiting for our soul to be crucified to Christ Jesus, which is our adoption as Sons.”
Verse 24, “So then the engrafted word was rescuing us” -- “So then the engrafted word was rescuing us from the death of this existence that we should be adopted as Sons. But since the immature Christ cannot be seen, why would anyone look for the mature Christ Jesus or expect the good things, which are associated with His life?
“Because by understanding God’s intentions and promises towards us, we can endure the hardships of our spiritual labor and eagerly expect Christ to appear in us if we rely upon His strength, not our strength.”
Verse 26, “And likewise our present manner of prayer is ineffective when the judgment seed of Christ exposes the hidden sins of our heart. So the Spirit of Christ helps us to deal with our human weaknesses with moans and sighs, which cannot be expressed in words.
“Moreover” -- verse 27 -- “we know that the Sons of God examine the hearts of men with the thoughts and purposes of the Spirit of Christ because their prayers agree with Christ Jesus.”
In the last message, Part 3 of this series, I told you that we would review verse 25 at the beginning of the next message because my notes were not clear as to how I arrived at the Alternate Translation. So I would like to go over verse 25 with you. And then we will go on to verse 28, 29 and 30.
Verse 25, “But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.” Webster says that the word hope can be defined as trust. And he further says that trust -- Webster further says that trust is speaking of the assured reliance upon the character, abilities, strength or truth of someone or something. So when we speak about hope -- when the Scripture speaks about hope, it is really speaking about reliance upon the character of Jesus Christ, reliance upon the fact that Jesus Christ cannot lie and that if He has promised that He is going to appear -- that He is going to appear in humanity, that we are going to be delivered out from hell -- that this must come to pass because God cannot lie.
So those of us who have hope -- for those of us who have hope, it is not likely to find us amongst a crowd of people who are saying Jesus Christ was crucified and raised from the dead 2,000 years ago. It must have been a phony because humanity is even worse than it was then. These people who think this way are without hope.
But those of us that believe in the integrity of the character of the Lord Jesus Christ are saying to ourselves, there must be something that I do not understand if it is taking this long, but my God has said He will do it. And He will do it. As surely as the sun rises in the morning and sets at night, He will deliver this creation out from the bondage known as hell. That is hope, brethren. That is hope.
The Greek word translated wait means eagerly expect, and the Greek word translated patience, which is Strong’s 5281, means endurance. Now I spent a lot of time in the last message showing you other Scriptures where that word patience was translated endurance, and I would like to go over that.
I would like to read our Alternate Translation of the last part of Revelation 13:10, which I used in this -- in the last message to demonstrate the scriptural concept of the word patience: what this word patience or how this word patience is used in other Scriptures. Because to me the word patience in no way indicates the endurance that it implies. Brethren, when you are going through severe trials and you are being tempted and you are manifesting all over the place, the patience just does not apply to what you need to get you through.
I will take endurance. Endurance will get you through the trials when you have the hope or the belief that Jesus Christ has promised you the victory no matter how it looks. And I want to tell you that I am starting to enter in on that. No matter how bad things look, I know that if I just hang onto the horns of the altar, deliverance must come. I have entered into a new realm of it. I do not care what it looks like. I do not care what it sounds like. Deliverance must come. Why? Because the Lord Jesus Christ controls my life. Deliverance must come. Just hold on. Do not run, brethren. Do not run. Dig a foxhole. Dig in, and get down out of the line of fire. Do not run. Do not panic. Just hang in there for deliverance must surely come.
This is Revelation 13:10, “Here is the faith and the patience of the saints.”
And this is the Alternate Translation of the second half of Revelation 13:10, “The men who are maturing from Adam into Christ must have a moral conviction therefore” -- that is the faith -- “a moral conviction therefore that Christ shall appear in their human spirits thus making the destruction of sin and the abolishment of death a personal reality for them.” Why? Because for Christ to appear in your spirit, sin must be destroyed, and death must be abolished in your vessel.
“And these men must also consistently endure the warfare between Christ and the carnal mind, which shall result in their new state of being.” And I want to tell you, brethren, that my soul does not want this warfare. My soul wants to give up. My soul is tired. Sometimes very wicked thoughts go through my soul, but Christ in me knows that if I just endure, I shall enter into my new state of being. And the very fact that I am in the tribulation is indicative of the fact that I can expect this event to happen to me because I am laboring, and I expect a child.
Now if you are a part of the church that is out there singing and dancing and hopping around, that is fine. But you may have no reason to expect a child. Now listen to what I am saying. I am not against anybody. I am not condemning anybody, but God has raised me up to tell you the truth. And with my dying breath, if it comes to that, I shall tell you the truth. If you are singing and dancing and God is giving you Cadillacs and meeting your every desire for a soft life out there, brethren, you are showing no signs of pregnancy nor are you showing any signs of labor. And therefore you have no realistic reason to expect a child. Let us get it together here.
OK, going back to verse 25, when I put together the Alternate Translation, I -- apparently I just messed that verse up.
When I put together the Alternate Translation that I just read to you -- let me give it to you again. “Because by understanding God’s intentions and promises towards us, we can endure the hardships of our spiritual labor” -- oh, I see what I did.
I put my new Alternate Translation into this -- into that -- in what I just read to you.
But if you go back onto the message prior to this and you listen to the Alternate Translation of verse 25, you will hear that I forgot to add to the Alternate Translation the idea that endurance means to consistently endure the warfare between Christ and the carnal mind.
So I made up a new Alternate Translation, and I already read it to you with the recap, but I will give it to you again.
“But if we rely upon Christ to bring to pass what we cannot see, then we will consistently endure the warfare between Christ and the carnal mind, which shall result in what we are eagerly expecting.” And what are we eagerly expecting? Our new state of being: the Christ child. We are eagerly expecting the child of promise, which is our new state of being.
So if you understand what is happening to you, it will bring you through the trials. I want to tell you the -- I would have never believed how hard this tribulation could be if someone just spoke it to me. And no one even spoke it to me. No one speaks about it. The only thing that keeps me going is that I have a vision of what the end of this will be. And it is the only thing that is keeping me going because it is just really depressing and upsetting sometimes. But I have a vision, and I will not perish, because I have a vision.
OK, after reviewing our Alternate Translation of Revelation 13:9 and 10, which I just read to you, I concluded that the phrase in Romans 8:25 that says, what we cannot see, is expressing the same idea as the word faith in Revelation 13:10. Let me give that to you again.
Alternate Translation of Revelation 13:10, “The men who are maturing from Adam into Christ must have a moral conviction” -- moral conviction is the definition of faith. They “must have a moral conviction that Christ shall appear in their human spirits.” OK. In Romans 8:25, it does not say faith, but it says, what we cannot see. So it is pretty much saying the same thing with different words. Romans 8:25 says that we have to expect what we cannot see. And Revelation 13 says we must -- 13:10 says we must have a moral conviction that Christ is going to appear in our human spirit while Romans 8:25 says we have to believe what we cannot see. And what is it that we cannot see? That Christ is going to appear in our human spirit or that Christ is, in fact, already appearing in our human spirit.
And as we said in the last message, that when Christ first conceives, there are no signs that He is there, just like when a human woman conceives in the early moments of pregnancy. There is no signs whatsoever that she is pregnant. Well, we have believers who have received the engrafted word who are pregnant with Christ, and there is no sign whatsoever that they are pregnant.
But the Scripture is challenging us to believe what we cannot see. Why? Because it is challenging us to have faith. Why? Because the Lord Jesus Christ has said that this is what is happening to us. OK, so I am suggesting to you that the word faith in Revelation 13:10 is expressing the same idea as the phrase, what we cannot see, in Romans 8:25.
And faith is Strong’s 4102. It is a moral conviction of religious truth or of the truth of God. Another way to express it: Faith is having a conscience which agrees with God. Throw that pillow, somebody, please. It is a -- throw that pillow. OK, thanks. Yeah. Faith is having a conscience that agrees with God. Faith is having a conscience that agrees with God. Do you know, brethren, this country is spiraling downward because they are not only agreeing in conscience with God, but they are not even acknowledging His conscience.
I saw a whole program on a talk show. Well, I did not watch the whole program; I could not bear it. And it was about lesbian couples raising children and how they are being persecuted and having to move from town to town because of the persecution. And the talk show host said to the lesbian -- I guess they were both mothers. I was going to say, the lesbian mother. I do not know; I guess they were both mothers. And she said to him, now, tell me what do you think is the basis of this homophobia? Why do you think people are so frightened of homosexuality? And they are going on with these lofty conversations.
Brethren, the basis for homophobia is that the Scripture says that it is an abomination before the Lord. The Scripture says it is perverse and to be cast out of your land. That is the basis for homophobia. And I want to tell you something, that from what I could see on the show, it would not surprise me at all if the talk show host asking this question had absolutely no idea that the real basis for it is that the Lord has said, cast it out from the midst of you. Cleanse the land.
There are some very strange things happening in this nation today, brethren. My Bible says that they will become so wise in their own teachings that they will become fools.
[?Where is that said?]?
That is in Romans. Yeah, I think it is Romans 1, yeah. I am f- -- I turn on the TV every day, and I see men who are so educated. My mother calls them -- and she tells me that my grandmother used to use this phrase -- the educated fool. They are so educated, they do not know anything. They are so impressed with their formal, humanistic education that they do not know anything. And they are headed -- and the fool heads into destruction.
What do you think is the basis of homophobia? Well, all we want is --
What is that?
[?I was going to say that?] [INAUDIBLE].
Yes, yes. Well, we just want to live in peace, and people are just frightened of a different lifestyle. They are not frightened, brethren. They are offended because your lifestyle is perverse.
That is right. [?They are right to be?].
They are right to be offended. It is a godly thing to be offended. It is a sign that their conscience is lined-up with the conscience of God.
That is right.
Now that does not mean you can go around beating up homosexuals or murdering them. You are supposed to be praying for their salvation. But the activity is an abomination unto the Lord. OK.
Again as we taught on the last message, faith is not a hazy, unclear idea but a moral conviction. And the example we gave on the last message is of many believers who want to do something. God has not confirmed it; God has not made a way. But they will go out and purchase a $200 or $300 plane ticket on a credit card, and they do not have the funds to cover it. And they think that they are having faith for God to bring in the money.
No, faith does not work that way. Faith must be based on a clear-cut word of the Lord to you or a word that is witnessed to you that God wants you to do something or that God has promised to do something for you. And then you have faith that He is going to bring it to pass.
Brethren, you do not go out and put -- charge money on your credit card when you do not have the funds to cover it and God never told you to do it. That is a high manifestation of pride. It is very dangerous, amen, amen.
Foolishness, yes. Glory to God. So Revelation 13 say- -- 10 says here is the faith of the saints. That is to say faith is understanding God’s intentions and promises towards us, which is the same thing as hoping for what we cannot see. Because before you can hope for something, you must have an understanding of what you are hoping for. Brethren, how can you have hope if you do not know what you are hoping for? Also please note that the Greek word translated wait is the same Greek word translated waiteth in verse 19, where we translated it eagerly expecting. OK, I hope I cleared that up for you. If you compare the two messages, it should clear it up for you.
Because on the last message, I gave you an Alternate Translation that, as I read it, I could not even figure out myself where I got it from. So let me read it to you again. Romans 8:25, “Because if we rely upon Christ’s strength” -- that is the word hope -- “and understand God’s intentions and promises towards us” -- that is faith for what cannot see -- “we can eagerly expect” -- or wait for -- “it” -- what are we waiting for? What we cannot see at this time -- “and thereby we are able to endure the hardships which precede His appearance.” And that is the word patience.
Amplified translation, Romans 8:25, “Because by understanding God’s intentions and promises towards us, we can endure the hardships of our spiritual labor and eagerly expect Christ to appear in us if we rely upon His strength.” Brethren, that is the key word. You must lay down your own strength. You will never, never find the strength within yourself to bring yourself to full stature. Only Christ strength can do it. And if you will not lay down your own strength, His strength will be hindered. So one of two things will happen. Either He will crush your strength through severe trials or He will cut you loose. Thank you, Jesus.
Continuing with Romans 8:28, “And we know that all things work together”” --
Did I read you that amplified translation? Let me give it to you again. Amplified translation, Romans 8:28, “Because by understanding God’s intentions and promises towards us, we can endure the hardships of our spiritual labor and eagerly expect Christ to appear in us if we are relying on His strength.” If you are relying on your own strength and you are expecting Christ to appear in you, you have a hope that is not based on any promise of God. Now listen to that. You are hoping for something that God has not promised you.
And we have a whole church world out there preaching that we should do it ourselves. We should bring in Christ ourselves. God has made us no such promise; therefore if you are believing Christ to appear in you on your own strength, your faith is futile because it is based on something God has never promised you. Your own strength must surrender so that the strength of Christ can kick in and bring you through.
Continuing with Romans 8:28, “And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are called according to his purpose.” All things, Strong’s 3956, can also be translated all men, and that is how we will translate it today. Work together, 4903, means labor together, and, brethren, we are involved in a spiritual labor in this hour to bring forth the man-child who will save us in childbearing. It is a spiritual labor. It is not a labor of the flesh, not a labor of the carnal mind, but a labor with the power of Christ to bring forth that man-child.
“And we know that all things work together for good” -- the Greek word translated for is Strong’s 1519, and it means toward. Good is Strong’s 18, and -- I made a mistake in my notes here. It means to think good thoughts, to think that which is good. And one can only think good when one has the mind of Christ. Jesus clearly said none is good, no, not one. So I suggest to you that the implication here of thinking good is to have the mind of Christ.
“And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God” -- the Greek word translated love is the agape love of the Lord Jesus Christ. And God simply means God. Now I would like to point something out to you here, brethren.
OK, back in verse 27, it says that the prayers of the saints agree with God. And I did not point this out to you on the last message, but the article, the definite article the, does not appear before the word God in verse 27. And if you remember the teaching on this, when the Scripture says God without the definite article, it is speaking about Christ Jesus, the God in your heart, the God in the midst of you. But when the Scripture speaks about the God, it is speaking about Jehovah, the God that is not only in the midst of you, but that is also outside of you: the Father God of all things. Everybody OK?
So verse 27 is God without the article, which means Christ Jesus. And verse 28 is speaking about the God. And I want to suggest to you that the God is speaking about the Lord Jesus Christ. OK?
Now let me explain the implication of this to you. Well, maybe I should take it out of my note. So what does this mean? It means that the individual believer must have an engrafted Christ Jesus if the Spirit of Christ is causing his prayers to line up with Christ Jesus. But a believer need not have the engrafted Christ Jesus to love God wherever He may be manifesting. Because the God that you are loving is not Christ Jesus in your own heart, but the God that you are loving is the Lord Jesus Christ, who is in the earth in the form of the Holy Spirit today. Anybody can love the Lord Jesus Christ, but to have your -- to have the Spirit of Christ, which means that your prayers are lining up with Christ, Christ Jesus must be in your heart.
Brethren, there is no way that your prayers will line up with the prayers of God without having Christ Jesus in your heart, but you can love God without having Christ Jesus in your heart. You could have the Holy Spirit alone and love God. Everybody loves in a different measure, brethren. Your 1-month-old baby loves you. Your 2-year-old loves you. Your 15-year-old loves you. Your mother loves you. Your father loves you. Your husband loves you. Everybody does not love the same.
There are a lot of people that love God. Some people love very selfishly. But there are all kinds of people out there in the world that they will tell you they love God. And in some measure, they love Him, but it is not the God in the midst of them. It is the God out there. It is the God that blesses them. It is the God that gives them presence. It is the God that helps them. It is the God that comforts them. But it may no- -- but it does not necessarily have to be the God who enables their prayers to line up with the mind of God.
Do you hear the difference? Big difference, you see. If you love the Lord Jesus Christ, yo- -- there is nothing required of you. You are an infant. Look, what do we require of our 1-month-old children? What do you require of a 1-month-old baby? You feed them. You bathe them. You change their diapers. They give you nothing. Well, if you love the Lord Jesus Christ, you are very possibly in that category, but if your prayers line up with the mind of God, indicating that Christ Jesus is now being formed in your heart, the next stage of maturity, OK, that is a sign that now you are giving something back. What are you giving back? You are praying for the weak of God’s family. You are taking on some responsibility. It is the next stage of maturity.
So the bottom-line of what I am saying to you is that you can love God with the Holy Spirit, but you cannot have your prayers lining up with the mind of God with the Holy Spirit. You need Christ Jesus, the God in the midst of you. You must have at least the engrafted word. Everybody OK?
So accordingly I have changed the word God to Christ Jesus in verse 27. And I am translating the phrase the God in verse 28 as the Lord Jesus Christ.
Alternate Translation, the first half of Romans 8:28, “And we know that all men are laboring together toward the mind of Christ to them that love the Lord Jesus.” Let me get my -- excuse me while I open my Bible, and I will try to give you this a piece at a time. This is a difficult verse here. We are in verse 28, “And we know that all things work together for good to them who love God.” All things, all men, work together, labor together.
“And we know that all men are laboring together for good” -- good meaning to think which is good. And you cannot think what is good unless you have Christ. So we are saying: “And we know that all men are laboring together toward good” -- or toward the mind of Christ -- “to them that love the God, to them that love the Lord Jesus Christ.” For those who love the Lord Jesus Christ, all those men are laboring together towards the point of the engrafted word.
There -- remember now, there is two manifestations of the mind of Christ. Another name for the mind of Christ is Christ Jesus. You can have the immature manifestation, which is the engrafted word, or you can have the mature manifestation, which is full stature. So all men that love the Lord Jesus Christ, if you truly love Him, you are laboring together. And you are going to grow, and you are going to mature. And the result of it is going to be that the mind of Christ is going to -- the seed for the mind of Christ is going to be engrafted in you. Is everybody OK?
OK. Please remember now that the true agape love speaks about a spiritual intercourse of the mind. Now this can take place between the Holy Spirit and a man’s human spirit, which hopefully results in the formation of Christ Jesus as the man’s new mind. This spiritual intercourse could take place between Christ Jesus in the mind of a man and another man’s human spirit, which may also result in Christ Jesus being formed in the man’s mind. Or this spiritual intercourse may take place between Christ Jesus in one man’s mind and Christ Jesus in a second man’s mind.
Now this third choice is called -- does anybody know what it is called? No, let me say it again. Spiritual intercourse between Christ Jesus in one man’s mind and Christ Jesus in another man’s mind is called a Spirit tie. OK? A soul tie is when one soul is interacting with someone else’s soul, but this is a Spirit tie. It is Spirit-to-Spirit. Our example of it in the Old Testament is Jonathan and David. And our example of it in the New Testament is Jesus and His disciple John. Apparently John had some measure of the mind of Christ, and there was a relationship between Jesus and John, which was in the Spirit, that He did not have with the other disciples.
Put that on pause, please. Now remember Christ is not divided. What does that mean? Christ is one Spirit wherever He is manifesting. So if you have a Spirit tie with somebody, it is really the one Spirit of Christ which is manifesting in many men. If you have a Spirit tie with somebody that means that you two, amongst others, have flowed together into the river of Christ. And you have -- your souls are divided, and your physical bodies are divided, but you are one in the Spirit of Christ. Because he who is joined to the Lord is one Spirit. It is a high place to be.
How do you know whether or not you have a Spirit tie with somebody? Brethren, if the primary bulk of your relationship is speaking about the things of God, the chances are excellent that your relationship abides in the Spirit. Check out your conversation.
Now I am not knocking soul ties; I am not knocking human relationships. Just you need to know who you are and where you [?are?]. If nine out of 10 times or if every time you possibly can, your choice is to speak about spiritual things, your relationship is rooted and grounded in Christ. You have a Spirit tie. If nine out of 10 times you are talking about cooking or shopping or changing the oil in your car or a baseball or a football game, you need to know that your relationship with that person is grounded and rooted in your soul. OK, no condemnation here. Know the truth. Jesus said the truth will set you free.
You know, people have -- there are -- there is a large group of people in this country, in this world, they have problems with their relationships because they expect things from people that that person can never give them -- was never able to, cannot now, nor will they ever be able to give them. And they form a relationship with the person for some reason that is ungodly, hoping against hope that things will change and that person will give them something that they need. And it never happens, and they become mad at that person.
Brethren, you need to know what you can expect from every one of your relationships. Now, look, if you want a relationship where you can talk about the things of God all day, do not go to a carnally minded friend and expect them to discuss spiritual things with you.
And I am going to be very blunt, brethren. If what you need to go on in this world is deep spiritual things and you marry a man or a woman because you are physically attracted to them, do not expect them to be spiritual with you. Do not get mad at them because your lives are going in different directions after you get out of bed in the morning. I tell you the truth. I tell you the truth.
So in this hour, the body of Christ is manifesting in the minds of those believers who are living out of and fellowshipping out of and relating out of Christ. And the sign of that is that their interest is towards spiritual things. So the body of Christ is in the Spirit in this hour. And those members of His body who are functioning as members of His body and separated in the soul and in the physical body in this hour, but they are one in the Spirit.
Amplified translation, the first half of Romans 8:28, “And we know that all men who have had a true union with the Lord Jesus Christ are laboring together toward the mind of Christ.” You see, you can love the Lord Jesus Christ -- I mentioned that earlier. There is all different measures of love -- but to have a true union with the Lord Jesus Christ will result in Christ Jesus being formed in you. Because the true union -- as you come together closer and closer, if it is a true union, He will penetrate you and deposit His seed in your spirit.
So we have people all over, loving the Lord Jesus Christ, because you do not have to have Him inside of you to love Him. But if your love is true, if you are truly seeking after Him and panting after Him, there is going to be a union. And the proof of that union shall be your pregnancy. Is everybody OK? OK.
Continuing with the second half of Romans 8:28, “to them who are called according to his purpose.” Now this is very interesting. We will do the word purpose first. The Greek word translated purpose is Strong’s 4286, and believe it or not, it can be translated showbread, showbread. And if you look up this definition in Thayer’s, it does say that the word can be translated purpose, but the majority of the text that Thayer writes under this number is concerning the translation as showbread, so those who are called to be the showbread. This Scripture is talking about those who are called to be the showbread. Hallelujah. Is that not amazing? This is good. Stay with me; this is really a good verse.
Now I looked up in Unger’s Bible Dictionary and cons- -- confirmed to my own satisfaction that my memory was correct. The showbread was eaten exclusively by the priests. Only the priests could eat the showbread, and they had to eat it in the tabernacle. They did not take it out and eat it outside of the tabernacle. So those who eat the showbread are priests -- must be priests -- and they must be eating it in the holy place.
“To them who are called according to his purpose.” The word called -- the Greek word translated called, Strong’s 2822, can be translated called to discharge some office. And it can also mean to be divinely selected and appointed. The King James translates the word called as a noun: the called. Look in your King James -- “to them who are the called” -- that is a noun, a person, place or a thing -- “according to his purposes.”
But that is not what the interlinear says. The interlinear reveals this word translated called to be a verb. And it should read, those being called, or, those who are eating the showbread and exercising the office of priest, or, those who are communing with Christ and exercising the office of the Melchizedek priesthood.
Now where do I get the Melchizedek priesthood from? Because those who are priests according to Aaron partake of the natural bread, which typifies Christ. But those who are priests after the order of Melchizedek partake of the true bread, which is the very Christ. John 6:32 says, “Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven.”
Alternate Translation, second half of Romans 8:28, “To those who are communing with Christ” -- eating the showbread is communing with Christ -- “and exercising the office of the Melchizedek priesthood.” That is the translation of the word called: called according to His purpose. Is that exciting? To commune with Christ in the exercise of the Melchizedek priesthood.
Alternate Translation, the whole of Romans 8:28, “And we know that all men who have had a true union with the Lord Jesus Christ are laboring together” -- see, they have had a true union, and now they are laboring to bring forth the child. They are laboring together “toward the mind of Christ to those who are communing” -- to be turned into those who are communing -- “with Christ and exercising the office of the Melchizedek priesthood.”
Please note the evolution of the maturing Godhead. Even though it is out of order -- as we translate it word for word, it is out of order. And it is the Lord Jesus Christ, the mind of Christ and Christ or Christ Jesus. That is how it appears in the King James. The correct order is the Lord Jesus Christ, Christ Jesus, the engrafted word, and the mind of Christ full stature. So we are going to amplify this verse. You may recall from other prophetic Scriptures that we have done -- and I am really not particularly sure why, but it is not at all uncommon that the sequence is out of order. I do not know whether the translators have copied the Scripture incorrectly or if there is some spiritual reason for it. I am not sure, but we will set it straight.
Amplified Translation, Romans 8:28, “And we know that all men who have had a true union with the Lord Jesus Christ and are therefore exercising the off-“ -- you see, because they have the true union with Christ, they are therefore now exercising the “office of the Melchizedek priesthood, through communion with Christ Jesus, are laboring together towards the mature mind of Christ.” So that is the evolution. You have a union, a true union with the Lord Jesus Christ. Christ Jesus is formed in you. And everyone in this condition is laboring together to go from the engrafted word unto full stature. Hallelujah.
I amplified it further. Listen to this, “And we know that all men who have had a true union with the Lord Jesus Christ and are therefore exercising the office of the Melchizedek priesthood, through communion with Christ Jesus, are laboring together towards full spiritual manhood.” Hallelujah.
And we are all in this together. And that is why, brethren, when you are in this condition and someone else who is in this labor is suffering, you will know it. That is how you are called into prayer when you have not spoken to any human being. That is how you know what is going on. Because you are all of the same engrafted word, and we are all in labor together. There is one man-child that is bring- -- being born. And we are all in labor together. As hard as it is to believe, it is the truth. And when He is born, He is going to swallow up our differences and our divisions and our envyings and every other problem that we have.
Continuing with Romans 8:29, “For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.” Now first of all, I have a question for you. Who was foreknown? I suggest to y- -- does anyone know who was the foreknown one? Well, who was the foreknown one? Not --
Yeah, the foreknown one was the spiritual Son. Now not Christ in human flesh, but the spiritual Son that was the sperm in the loi- -- in the spiritual loins of the Father. He is the one that was foreknown.
And we were in Him but in seed form. I know in some churches, they teach that we existed before incarnation in the form that we are in now. Brethren, this is not true. That is the same thing as saying we existed in our mothers’ wombs as ovarian eggs at one point. OK, we did not have the consciousness that we have now. We were in sperm form, OK. So the one that was foreknown was the Spirit: the sperm that came out from God that was the very beginning of what we are and what we shall be.
So I want to suggest to you that this spiritual Son of God, before He was born of a woman, was foreknown by the God, Jehovah, of verse 28, which is the Father. Remember the glorified Lord Jesus Christ is now one with the Father. So the Old Test- -- in the Old Testament, He is called the Father, and in the New Testament, we can call Him both the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ because they have flowed together into the same ocean. And there is now no separation. Oh, well, let me say the only difference that there is, is that Jehovah exists outside of the creation and the Lord Jesus Christ. And when Jehovah enters into His creation, His name changes to the Lord Jesus Christ. OK.
OK, “For whom he did foreknow” -- the Greek word foreknow is 4267, and it means to know beforehand. That is easy enough. He knew His Son when He was in Spirit form. He knew Him before the incarnation. He also did predestinate, Strong’s 4309, to decide beforehand. So the one that He knew in Spirit form, He decided beforehand.
What does that mean? A word study in Webster indicates that this word can also be translated to predetermine. So I looked up the word determine in Webster, and it means to fix the form or character beforehand. God fixed the form and character -- God determined what this Spiritual Son would look like when He incarnated.
Do you know how in our world carnal people have a baby, and the woman is pregnant, and they are wondering what the child is going to look like? And they think it is just happenstance or it is just luck whether the child looks like the mother or the father or whether he looks like an angel or whether he looks like Godzilla. Nobody knows what the baby is going to look like.
Well, before this man-child was born, God knew what He was going to look like. God the Father determined what this child would look like. “For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son.” Conformed, 4832, is speaking of external appearance, and it is the same word that is translated, fashion like unto, in another Scripture. And that Scripture is Philippians 3:21, “Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.”
“For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son.” Image, 1504, one in whom the likeness of one is seen. What does that mean? If I have a piece of clay and I take my nail and I push my nail into the wet clay, the clay is now revealing the image of my nail, OK? So an image is referring to the soul in which the nature of the Spirit of God is appearing, speaking about the clay.
And the word Son is Strong’s 5207, which Thayer says usually is speaking of the offspring of men. So we see that the word Son is expressing the concept of the incarnated Son of God -- the incarnated Son of God, not the spiritual Son of God that was the sperm, but the incarnated Son of God that has been born of a woman. The external appearance of the Son now is not speaking about the physical body but the soul, which is possessed by the mind of Christ.
Now this is very important. This is very important. When the Scripture speaks about the external appearance of the Son, he is speaking about the soul, which is expressing the mind of Christ. The glorified Son does not need a vile, fallen body to live in. This is a prison house. Jesus Christ, who raised from the dead, did not have a body like this. That is why He could take the form of anyone He wanted to.
He was flesh and bones. Raised from the dead, He was -- I was not planning on giving this to you tonight. He was flesh and bones: bone typifying spirit and flesh typifying the soul expressing the Spirit of Christ. He was just flesh and bones.
But fallen man: We are flesh and blood. And that is referring to this physical body, which is physical flesh and human, fallen blood. And we cannot exist without this body. The life of the flesh is in the blood. Our existence, brethren, does not come from our soul. It comes from this physical body. The blood in this body keeps us alive. We lose the blood, and we die.
But when we have been raised from the dead, we are no longer flesh and blood. We have become flesh and bones. This body has fallen away, and we are living by the strength of the Spirit being expressed through the soul. And that is why until Christ is fully born in you and impressing His nature on your soul, we still need this body. So all you Pharisees out there that think that you have arrived, I have been challenging you by message for a long time to let yourself die and see what happens.
You let this body fall away before Christ is fully born in you and impressing His nature on your soul -- if you let this body before you become flesh and bones, if you let this flesh and blood die before you become flesh and bones, you will cease to exist. And you cannot be both.
It is the same principle as saying Christ is not your head until your carnal mind has been cut off or beheaded from your soul and Christ is sitting on your soul. Brethren, you cannot be flesh and bones until your flesh and blood is done away with. It is going to be a transition. It is going -- you see, right now your flesh and bones, they are growing within you. But there must be a moment where your flesh and blood is cut off in righteousness and your flesh and bones becomes your entire sustenance.
So it is -- I demonstrated the concept of threshold for you last week. Your flesh and bones are growing, growing, growing, growing. But until your flesh and bones put down and destroy your flesh and blood, your existence is still rooted and grounded in your flesh and blood. We are waiting for that moment where the flesh and bones that are growing in us shall put down the flesh and blood and raise itself up as the glorified sustenance of our existence. Hallelujah.
So the external appearance of the Son is not the physical body but the soul, which is possessed and -- of and expressing the mind of Christ.
Alternate Translation, “Because the Father determined before the incarnation that the external form of the one He knew beforehand” -- the Spiritual Son -- “would appear as the offspring of men.” “Because the Father determined before the incarnation that the external form of the one He knew beforehand would be -- would appear as the offspring of men.”
The word foreknew is translated knew before. The word predestinated is translated determined. The word conformed is translated appear. And the word image is translated to have an external appearance.
Remember now the Son of God is Christ, which is a mind. And when the -- when that mind is in a man and has overcome the carnal mind of that man He is appearing in, then the whole man is called Christ. Just as a woman takes the name of her husband, the human being, which is female in relationship to Spirit, takes the name of the mind that is ruling in it. But Christ is a mind. Christ is a mind first and foremost.
Amplified translation, the first half of Romans 8:29, “Because the Father determined before the incarnation that the external form of His spiritual Son would appear as the offspring of men.” “Because the Father determined before the incarnation that the external form of His spiritual Son would appear as the offspring of men.”
And as a witness to the pre-incarnated state of the Son of God, I give you John 1:1, “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”
And our Alternate Translation of that is, “At the beginning of time, the living thought, which the God spoke into existence, was projecting forth from the side of God. And that living thought was an extension of God, and He was God. And He projected forth, and He penetrated into the earth. And He was and is being -- or -- He was and is appearing in the form of a man.”
Continuing with the second half of Romans 8:29, “that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.” Firstborn, Strong’s 4416, and it is used of the firstborn of a man or beast. The interlinear says, to be him, firstborn among many brethren. And I am suggesting to you -- well, that word him, it can be translated himself. And we have had this concept before. I am suggesting to you that the Son is himself, that when God appears in the external form of human beings, we -- He considers us Himself. We are God in another form when He appears in us. We’re not God now. We have God in us. We won’t be God until He marries us, and then we’ll be everything that He is.
And the word -- well, I have a note to myself to speak about the significance of the firstborn, but I feel that I’m really straining tonight to get this out, so I’m not going to spend too much time on it, but I will say this, that the firstborn inherits everything, all of the spiritual substance, all of the financial substance, all of the land, so Jesus Christ, being the firstborn has inherited the entire creation. And the word “brethren” is Strong’s 80; it means to have the same national ancestor. So, brethren, for you and me to be brethren, we have to have the same national ancestor. You have to be moving and functioning in the family of God to call yourself my brother [sic]. And I want to tell you, for people who are moving and functioning in the family of God, those blood ties, can -- if God ordains it, it can be as tight as any natural blood ties; that tie that’s rooted in flesh and bone can be just as tight as if you were born of flesh and blo- -- of the same flesh and blood, but God has to do it, and it’s real.
Alternate translation, the second half of Romans 8:29, “And be the first of many human beings born into the spiritual realm of God.”
Amplified translation, the second half of Romans 8:29, “And be the first of many human beings born into the kingdom of God after they are rescued from Hell.” Whether there’s a curtain, we’re going from Hell into the realm of God’s spirit, which is the kingdom of God. And that veil is what?
It’s his flesh. It’s his flesh, yeah, [UNINTELLIGIBLE] close. The veil is -- we’ve got to pierce through His flesh because those who pierce Him are going to see, and those who see Him are going to be like Him. You got to pierce through. Our true reality, our human spirit must pierce through His flesh, and His flesh is the carnal mind.
Alternate translation, Romans 8:29, “Because the Father determined before the incarnation that the external form of His spiritual Son would appear as the offspring of men and be the first of many human beings born into the kingdom of God after they are rescued from Hell.” I have a witness to that [?for you?] Revelation 1:5, “And from Jesus Christ who is the faithful witness and the first begotten of the dead” -- and if you study that in the Greek, that’s what it means; He’s the first one born out of death, and He’s born out of death, which is Hell, into the kingdom of God. It’s a transition taking place.
Remember, that the external form of the Son of God is not His physical body but His soul. We talked about that already. The external form is -- of the Son of God is not this physical body but the soul which is expressing the image of the mind of Christ; that’s the external form of the Son of God.
Amplified translation, Romans 8:29, “Because the Father determined before His spiritual Son was incarnated that His external form should appear as the offspring of men and that He should be the first of many human beings born into the kingdom of God after they are rescued from Hell.”
OK, it won’t be much longer now. Somebody’s really suffering tonight. W- -- OK, we’re going to do 8:30, and that should go pretty quickly, so try and hang in there with me, please.
“Moreover, whom He did predestinate, them He also called and whom He called, them He also justified, and whom He justified, them He also glorified.” The word predestinate is the same as above, to determine beforehand, but this Greek word translated “called” is different than above. This Greek word is Strong’s 2569, and it doesn’t -- the other word “called” meant to [?executing a?] priestly office. This word “called” means merely to bid or invite. “Justified” is Strong’s 1344, and I remind you that means to render righteous or to set one as they ought to be, and “glorified” is Strong’s 1392, which means to receive dignity and honor, and I suggest to you that to be glorified means to receive Christ, to receive Christ.
Now, we know Jesus was glorified in that context; His entire being received Christ, His spirit, His soul and His body.
Alternate translation, Romans 8:30, “Moreover, the one whose form was fixed before He was incarnated, He also who the Father also invited and whom he invited them” -- so we see there’s more than one -- “them He also made as they ought to be, and whom He made as He ought to be, these also He gave the dignity and honor which is in Christ.” I’ll put that in better English for you. Let’s try it again. Romans 8:30, “Moreover, the Father invited the human offspring of the spiritual Son of God whose form was determined before He was incarnated, and He restored the men whom He invited to the correct moral order, and those men whom He restored to the correct moral order, He also gave the mind of Christ.” So we see there’s an invitation; there’s a restoration, and there’s an impartation of Christ to the fullness of the person’s being.
Now, what were these men invited to? What were they invited to? 1 Corinthians 14:8, “For if the trumpet given uncertain sound who shall prepare himself to the battle.” Brethren, there is a battle; [?this?] rapture’s [?unscriptural?], spiritual rapture, physical rapture, you’re not going up without a battle -- you have to fight for every inch of ground that you take; now let’s find out what kind of battle this is.
Revelation 19:9, “And He saith unto me right, blessed are they which are called into the marriage supper of the lamb, and He saith unto me, these are the true sayings of God.” Well, I suggest to you that the battle -- that sounds strange, is a marriage ceremony? Yes, brethren, a marriage ceremony is a joining, OK, and what we’re invited to is the joining of our soul unto Christ. The only problem is that our soul is a military machine, and for this joining to take place, that military machine must be dismantled. So as we go along in that passage we see in Revelation 19:17 saying, “And I saw an angel standing in the sun, and he cried with a loud voice saying, to all the fowls that fly in the midst of Heaven, come and gather yourselves together unto the supper or the marriage supper of the great God,” verse 18, “that ye may eat the flesh of kings and the flesh of captains and the flesh of mighty men and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great,” verse 21, “and the remnant was slain with the sword of Him that sat upon the horse, which sought proceeded out of His mouth, and all the fowls or all the spiritual men or all the minds of Christ were filled with their flesh.” And that is the crucifixion of Christ to the carnal mind. Christ ate up the carnal mind, and He was filled with their flesh.
Now, I hear this in the spirit, all you carnal-minded Pharisees out there calling me a cannibal, I rebuke your carnal minds, and I remind you that the Jews thought that Jesus was a cannibal when He said you must eat My flesh and drink My blood. I am not a cannibal; I am telling you the truth of the Scripture. Repent, and start to enter into this battle, or you shall be left behind, or if the Lord has called you against your will, ye shall be crushed. Stop wasting your energy cursing Me; [?I’m?] just taken it to raise me up in full stature; that’s all your persecution can do to me is contribute to my tribulation which will end in my total overcoming of any manifestation of the carnal mind anywhere.
I have another amplified translation, Romans 8:30. “Moreover, the Father invited the human offspring of His spiritual Son whose form was determined before He incarnated to wage war against their own carnal minds, and He restored the men who wage that warfare to the correct moral order, and those men whom He restored to the correct moral order, He also gave the mind of Christ full stature.”
Now, brethren, I suggest to you that the restoration to the correct moral order is the impartation of the engrafted word to you. As soon as Christ comes in and becomes the head of your carnal mind, you’re in the -- you’re being restored to the correct moral order, and the end of that process is the full birth of the mind of Christ who will put down all of the rebellion which is in the carnal mind.
Is everybody OK? This anointing is so thick tonight I can barely keep my eyes open.
It is incredible. It is an awesome -- if you’re all OK, I would like to take another five minutes. The only thing I have left is to read you the recap. I would like to take another five minutes to just go over a revelation -- Revelation 19, those few verses that I didn’t just read to you that were left out. Let me just take a few minutes to do that. How are we doing on that message?
[AUDIO CUTS OUT]
Oh, OK. OK, I’m going to do this quickly. Revelation 19, verses 11 through 21. Now this is Christ Jesus appearing in the believer. “And I saw Heaven opened, and behold a white horse, and He that sat upon Him was called faithful and true, and in righteousness, He doth judge and make war. This is the appearance of Christ Jesus in the believer; he is judging the carnal mind of that person, and He is making war against it. It is called the judgment seed of Christ.
Verse 12, “And his eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns” -- this is the corporate Christ Jesus, each crown typifying a believer in whom He’s appearing, and He had a name written that no man knew that He Himself -- brethren, man cannot discern Christ in you; we’ve talked about this a lot. No carnal man will recognize that you are Christ. They will curse you and try to kill you and blaspheme against you. They will not know who you are, brethren.
Verse 13, “And He was clothed with a vesture, a garment, dipped in blood” -- that’s the -- vesture is the soul -- I haven’t looked this up in the Greek, but it was a soul that’s cleansed by the blood of Christ, and His name is called the word of God, is Christ Jesus, the word of God.
“And the armies which were in Heaven,” verse 14, “followed Him upon white horses” -- that’s the spiritual men of all the redeemed saints -- “clothed in fine linen, white and clean” -- that’s their souls that have received life -- verse 15, “and out of His mouth go with a sharp sword, the word of God that’s propelled by spiritual power, that with it He should smite the nations, that smite the carnal minds of the men of humanity, and He shall rule them with a rod of iron” -- that’s Christ in the individual -- “and He treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of almighty God,” and the winepress is the crushing of the grapes that is separating Christ from the carnal mind and releasing the power which is expressed by the symbol the wine -- the wine which is the release of the power of the Father, which is in Christ, which will come pouring out of us when the carnal mind is crushed. That’s your condition right. He’s in you; I told you that earlier today, and your grapes need to be crushed. Jesus. Jesus.
Verse 16, “And He hath on his vesture on His soul and on His thigh” -- and I remind you that the thigh in the Scripture typifies the reproductive parts, so He has on a soul, and He has on the human spirit which is a part of that soul, a name written King of Kings and Lord of Lords; that means the nature of Christ is now engraved in the human spirit and in the soul.
Verse 17, “And I saw an angel standing in the sun” -- the angel is Christ, and He was appearing as a sun, and He cried with a loud voice saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of Heaven, the Christ cried to every human being in which He was appearing, your spiritual man is described as a fowl that flies in the midst of Heaven. Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God, the marriage supper of the great God is another way of saying the crucifixion of Christ. And victory shall swallow up death. Christ shall eat up your carnal mind. He shall taste death for every man. If you’re not hot or you’re not cold, if you’re lukewarm, I shall spit you out of my mouth. If you don’t eat My flesh and drink My blood, you have no part in Me. The marriage supper is described in symbolic form in Revelation chapter 19. The Lord tells me this is very offensive to people, as fowls that fly in the midst of Heaven.
Verse 18, “That ye may eat the flesh of kings” -- that’s the soul of the carnal man -- “and the flesh of the captains.” I haven’t looked these up; I don’t really know what each category means -- “the flesh of the captains” -- oh, OK, the flesh of the kings is the physical body, the fl- -- remember, Jesus is the captain of the hosts, so captain is referring to the spiritual aspect of the carnal man; the flesh of the captain is the soul of that; it’s expressing the carnal mind -- “and the flesh of the mighty men” -- I’m not sure what that means -- “and the flesh of horses” -- I don’t know; I haven’t looked up the words -- “and of them that sit on them and the flesh of all, both free and bond, both small and great,” verse 19, “and I saw the beast” -- that’s the carnal mind -- “and the kings of the earth that he was expressing Himself through, and I saw their armies gathered together to make war against Him that sat on the horse and against His army.” Christ is sitting on the horse, and we are His army, and, brethren, you better get it into your head that every human being in whom the carnal mind is manifesting is there makin- -- ready to make war against you. You’ve got to get it straight; your husband, your daughter, your sweet little grandchildren; you better get it together, or they’re going to put you out. I’m telling you the truth.
“And I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to make war against Him that sat on the horse in your mind and against His army” -- that’s you -- “and the beast was taken; Christ prevailed, and with him, the false prophet” -- that’s the human spirit that’s connected with Satan -- “that wrought miracles before him with which he deceived them that received the mark of the beast. Satan needs the human spirit to deceive the people that have received his impression in their soul and them that worshipped his image; these both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.” It’s the crucifixion of Christ. They were thrown into Christ. “And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword preceded out of the mouth of Christ, and all the fowls, all the spiritual men were filled with their flesh, and every human being in whom Christ was manifesting crucified their carnal mind and were filled with His flesh.”
Recap, Romans 8:25-30, “Because by understanding God’s intentions and promises towards us, we can endure the hardships of our spiritual labor and eagerly expect Christ to appear in us if we rely upon His strength, and likewise, our present manner of prayer is ineffective when the judgment seed of Christ exposes the hidden sins of our heart, so the spirit of Christ helps us to deal with our human weaknesses with moans and sighs which cannot be expressed in words. Moreover, we know that the sons of God examine the hearts of men with the thoughts and purposes of the Spirit of Christ because their prayers agree with Christ Jesus, and we know that all men who have had a true union with the Lord Jesus Christ and are therefore exorcising the office of the Melchizedek priesthood through communion with Christ Jesus are laboring together toward full spiritual manhood because the Father determined before His spiritual Son was incarnated that his external form should appear as the offspring of men and that He should be the first of many human beings born into the kingdom of God after they are rescued from Hell. Moreover, the Father invited the human offspring of His spiritual Son whose form was determined before He incarnated to wage war against their own carnal minds, and He restored the men who waged that warfare to the correct moral order, and those men whom He restored to the correct moral order, He also gave the mind of Christ or full stature.”
And just as one last closing word, I would like to share something with you that the Lord just showed me last night. Just one second, please. Well, no, I guess not; I thought it said something that it didn’t.
OK. Was that an exciting message?
Do you understand it better when you listen to the message?
OK, so at least you get it. What a message. You know, if you listen with the carnal ear, you would say, well, she’s not saying anything different than the King James. But I’m just saying it’s way different. This anointing is incredible. My eyes are closing on me. I was falling asleep. I was getting slain in the spirit as I was preaching.
Hallelujah. Any questions or comments?
Whoever it is’ relative died without being reformed -- that means if their mind was not Christ, they’ve perished; they’re not dancing on streets of gold.
02/27/15 Transcribed by VerbalFusion
03/03/15 1st Edit/Formatting CAS & BP