The Following Message Has Been Transcribed For
Clarity, Continuity Of Thought, And Punctuation By
The LEM Transcribing & Editing Team.
I do not know. I hope I [?do not open up a bunch of manifestation?] about this, but in the Scriptures, it says Jesus said -- I know I have asked this question before, but it just does not stick. I used -- you know, in the teaching that, you know, we believe that heaven was a place that you go after you die.
You know, I understood the Scripture that Jesus said, “They that are accounted worthy of the resurrection neither marry or give in marriage -- or are given in marriage,” that -- you know, because, I mean, the -- I think it was the Pharisees that were asking him -- they were trying to snare him, and they said, well, who -- you know, they were talking about a woman that had married this person and that person died, and then she married the brother and that brother died, and it just goes --
-- down the line of, like, seven people or something.
And then she says, well -- and then he -- then they said, well, who is she going to be married to in heaven, you know, and Jesus said, “You are ignorant. You do not know the Scriptures,” or something like that. He said tho- -- and they always thought that as being -- that in heaven, being a place that you go once you die and leave this body, --
-- that, obviously, there is no marriage up there, but -- and understanding that it is -- that we come into the resurrection while still in this body.
I am still confused about that verse. I do not understand it. I -- I mean, I could -- I mean, I think what you are saying is you come into a place of -- a spiritual place where you did not -- you do not partake of marriage anymore or something like that, but --
-- you know, what does the Scriptures actually mean when it says “neither marry” -- we -- you know, it cannot mean that somebody that gets married cannot obtain the resurrection. It surely does not mean that.
No, it does not mean that.
“Neither marry or are given in marriage.” That is what it sounds like.
Yeah. Well, this is a can of worms, OK. Somebody usually manifests --
That what I am saying. I think I opened up --
-- over this one, OK. Let me pray for you all, but [?I will answer?] your question.
Yeah, because -- I know. I know it. I am just, like, pla- -- I feel like I am playing with fire here --
-- when I bring this up, but I really want to know the truth about it if the Lord opens it up, you know.
[INAUDIBLE] [?but you can bear it.?] Now, listen, let me start by saying this. Every rule or every law is not for everybody at every stage of their development. There are certain things that adults can do that children cannot do. Now, if you are married, you are supposed to be lying with your wife or your husband. If you are 5 years old, you are not supposed to be lying with your sister or your brother. Can everybody hear me? OK. There are certain things that you could do at a certain stage of your life under certain conditions and other things that you are not supposed to be doing at other stages or other conditions at other times of your life.
So this the bottom line. We are called -- well, let me say this also. Now, we are called to spiritual maturity. The question is for each individual, when are you going to get there? There are people who are alive in this earth right now who will die and pass out of this world system reaching spiritual maturity; therefore, this teaching [AUDIO CUTS OUT] even make any sense for it to come to their ears because people get all upset when they hear this.
If it is coming to your ears, maybe you are called to spiritual maturity; maybe you are not called to spiritual maturity, but let us say you are called to spiritual maturity 10 years from now. It makes no sense at all to worry about what is going to happen [AUDIO CUTS OUT] years from now, now. It makes no sense at all.
If you are in a spiritual condition right now where the Lord has said you are eligible for marriage -- in some instances, he has given you a marriage -- you are supposed to be enjoying that marriage. You are supposed to be lying with your husband and wife. You are supposed to be having children if he gives them to you, and if you are married, I believe you are supposed to have children, and you are supposed to be fully partaking of the marital union if God gives it to you.
So for you to get hysterical because 20 years from now [AUDIO CUTS OUT] up into heaven where there is no marriage or giving in marriage makes no sense at all. You live for today, and if God has given you marriage today, you live in it. If he has not given you marriage, you do not live in it. Paul said if you have a wife, do not seek to be loosed from your wife. If you do not have a wife, do not -- what?
Do not seek for one. I did not say it. I am just Sheila. Paul said it, and Jesus said it, OK. So do not go getting mad at me. And you cannot pick up this Bible and pick out what you like and throw away what you do not like. That is what we say about preachers. You eat the chicken and you spit out the bones. What that means is you take everything that I have to tell you which is of Christ, and everything which is of my carnal mind you throw away. But everything that is of Christ, you cannot pick and choose.
OK. So this is a very mature teaching, and it is for the people not called to spiritual maturity, but who are actually entering into spiritual maturity. You can have a word of the Lord that for sure 20 years from now you are going to enter into that, and that means for the next 20 years, you enjoy your marriage. Does anyone not know what I am talking about? OK.
What that Scripture means is that to enter into spiritual maturity is [AUDIO CUTS OUT] married, and at such time as the Lord calls you to that high place there is no marriage, and that means there is no sex. That is what it means -- S-E-X, no, when God brings you to that place. If you are single right now and you want to hope that God is going to give you a husband and that you are going to get married, well, then hope. I am not telling you not to hope because the truth is I do not know what his plan is for your life. He has not told me. [AUDIO CUTS OUT] do know is the signs of the time.
[AUDIO CUTS OUT] signs of the time is -- the signs of the time are that very shortly there is going to be a group of people who will enter into full stature, and there is no sex when you are in full stature. I am telling you right -- you do not like it? Go be a Hindu. I do not know. I -- I am just tired of being bombed on this issue. It is not my teaching. It is not my teaching. Jesus -- it is Jesus’ teaching.
Why is there no sex when you are in full stature? Oh, [AUDIO CUTS OUT] crucify me today. Why is there no sex? Did you want to answer that question?
Because it is of the flesh kingdom, [?fallen nature?]?
Yeah, well, that is true. It is a simple way of putting it. The real truth is very hard to bear, you know, but that is true, yeah.
Because your attention is diverted from Christ to your partner -- your flesh partner. Your attention is taken away from --
Well, all this is true.
If I -- I think you told me that --
I am leaving town.
You told me that it is --
I do not want to preach this.
-- it is the same as the image --
I am go- -- you preach it. I am leaving. I am leaving. You preach it, OK?
Now, you scaring me.
Take it off the message.
[INAUDIBLE] go ahead. [INAUDIBLE]
You said it is the same thing as narcissism. It is -- actually, it is making love to Satan.
Look, it is in the Bible.
That is what you told me.
It is in the Bible. Paul said -- well, let me explain to you what that means before you get hysterical here. Listen, we are spirit.
Everybody is, like, sinking down. [UNINTELLIGIBLE], like, what.
We are spirit. We are living in a --
At least he is getting [INAUDIBLE]
OK. Listen, we are spirit, and we are living in a beast body. Listen, brethren. We are spirit. Spirits do not have sex the way the animals have se- -- [AUDIO CUTS OUT] telling you the truth. It is an activity of your beast. Listen to me. It is an activity of your beast. You are a spirit, and you have a horse or a beast, but something happened to you, and you became attached to your beast, and now your beast is riding you. And those of us that have not begun to enter into Christ are engaged 100 percent in bestial activity. We are Mickey Mouse a cut higher.
OK. Listen to me. If you are married, enjoy it. You are not in full stature, so do not get all upset. If you are married, enjoy the marriage, but there is something coming. It is an elevation. It is an increase. It is a resurrection. It is a restoration back t- -- [AUDIO CUTS OUT] supremacy of the spirit.
Man in this world today is under the influence of the beast. The beast is ruling the spirit man, so we act like beasts, and God said if you are married, it is OK to act like a beast. Look, we eat. Spirits do not eat. We shovel food in our mouth. Spirits do not eat. We will eat like a beast until we are delivered from this beast body. So there is beast behavior which is legal so long as you are still [AUDIO CUTS OUT] [INAUDIBLE], but there is [sic] some of us that God is resurrecting back to be a spirit.
Now, when you are a spirit, you have to stop acting like a beast. Look, if you are a maiden and you get married, if you want to sto- -- if you want to be a married wife, you have to stop acting like a maiden. If you were a crook and you want to be a man of God, you have to stop acting like a crook. Look, if you are a fallen man and you are living a beast existence, even that aspect of it which God says is OK for as long as you are a beast, if you want to be raised from the dead and be a holy man, you have to stop acting like a beast.
But it is not that bad, you see. You just think it is bad because all you know is the beast life. There is a sex of the mind. There is a sex of the mind that is far superior to bestial sex. The problem that we have is that the Lord says you have to give up acting like a beast and do without either one for a season [UNINTELLIGIBLE] but you can experience sex of the mind.
Now, listen, I had this revelation for years, but I just recently found out that -- because I have never been on drugs. Someone -- I just recently found out from somebody that there is one particular drug that touches the center of the brain where you feel like you are just having sex all day long. That is what I was told. I have heard -- actually, I have heard it from a couple of people [AUDIO CUTS OUT] telling you. It is all in the mind, and the sex of the mind is far superior to the sex of the body, except while you are in transition, sometimes it could be distressful.
But the bottom line is we really do not have any choice. I do not think there are many people that are going to choose this, but if the Lord is calling you that way, he wants you to know -- well, he wants you to hear the good news aspect of it because a lot of people criticize Christians and they criticize celibacy and they make fun of them, and they say, what are you doing -- you know, killing yourself for? What is the purpose of all that? And that there is something wrong with Christians and that they have hang-ups on sex and the -- and --
Well, maybe some Christians do, but Jesus does not have a hang-up on sex. There is a deep spiritual truth underlying the severe restrictions on sexual behavior, and that is that the sexual behavior of fallen man is of our beast nature, and if it is not controlled, it can destroy your whole life. And there are people in this world that are not Christians that know that that is true, that human sexuality out of control could absolutely destroy you.
Aside from the fact that you can get a disease, that you can die, it can mess up your mind if you yield to every desire that you have. Aside from the fact that you can get sick, that you could die, that o- -- if you are a woman, you could become pregnant out of wedlock and have severe emotional and financial and -- problems for the next 20 years while you are raising that kid. It is horrendous raising a child without a husband and without a family life. It is very hard. Women are failing every day. That is why they give their children up. They cannot make it.
So aside from all that, just giving free reign to your sexuality gives Satan a hold on your life that can bring you into any kind of trouble. If it is -- if the curses on your family line are severe enough, you can wind up in prostitution. You can wind up under the control of some unscrupulous person. It happens more often to women than to men, but ex- -- it happens to men. They wind up under the unscrupulous moral control of some woman or another man or whatever. You become victimized. You could become victimized.
So every society has put up restraints on sexuality because the spiritual elders throughout the generations, no matter what religion you are in, know that sexuality unrestrained can destroy the individual and can destroy the whole society. And anyone that does not really believe that is either very immature or very ignorant because it is the truth, and it is a universal truism, and the whole world knows it, that sexuality -- human sexuality must be restrained. You cannot do anything you want. It can destroy your life.
Even when it comes to appetites and variety in sex -- people today are trying all kinds of different things in sex, and they get to the point that nothing satisfies them. I read a book once. It was a -- it just chilled my bones. It was written by a man who was a detective in the police force, and it was -- he had been a detective for years, and he investigated a lot of murder cases. And this was about a man who was seduced by a perverse woman, and she just led him from one perversion to another to another to another, and the kick always got weaker and weaker, so they went on to another perversion. And the ultimate perversion -- does anybody know what the ultimate perversion is? It is -- right now they are doing it with pornography. What is the ultimate perversion?
No. Murder. Murder. Did you ever hear of snuff porn? Well, they finish off the picture by killing the girl. It is the final kick, and in this book this man was led right down this path until it got to the point that they -- him and this woman, they did not even have sex anymore. The whole thing was the murder. The whole thrill was that he went out and killed somebody and went back and told her about it. They were not even doing it anymore.
So if you have ears to hear it, if you can hear what I am saying, the potential for se- -- for satanic activity that exists within human sexuality is very great. That is why it must be controlled, and society used to control it. I do not know what they are doing these days. It has to be controlled by the individual, by the family and by the society.
So what does that all say to us? You know, if you are not manifesting and your ears are still open, what it says to us is that sexuality is -- how could that be of God? Something left to run its own course at its own pace ending in murder and destruction and hatred and sex for animals’ sake that -- not an expression of love, OK, how could that be of God? How could it be of God? It is not. It is satanic. So if you have ears to hear it, it is satanic.
Now, if you enter -- if you engage in it in the parameters that God has laid out because the Lord says you are down here in hell and you are going to be down here for a long time, and I know that you are living in a beast body, and, therefore, you can engage in sexual activity under certain circumstances. You make a commitment to one person. You take on the responsibility for the children that you bring into this world. Hopefully, it will be an expression of love, although it is not always -- that we will control this thing and at least cut it off at the pass where it is not bringing down society. And that is the truth.
And for years, I read it -- I do not really know where it is. I can find it for you if somebody wants it, where Paul is talking -- I guess it must have been in 1 Corinthians. He is talking about the widows -- the young widows -- he said the young widows should not be allowed on welfare. Why should the young widows not be allowed on welfare? Young widows should not be allowed on welfare because if they are not kept busy, he said, they are going to hang out, and they are going to gossip, and sooner or later they are going to turn towards -- does anyone know the Scripture? Satan.
Now, what -- I used to read that Scripture, and I said, what is he talking about, that the young widows, if they do not work, are going to hang out in each other’s houses gossiping and being busybodies and they are going to go after Satan? What is he talking about? He was talking about a bestial relationship, and he was not necessarily talking about one outside of marriage.
What he was saying is -- let me put it to you another way. If you are forced into celibacy through widowhood or if your husband leaves you or whatever -- for whatever reason you are forced into celibacy -- and, of course, Paul was not talking only about young women. He was talking about spiritual women, which means human men or women that are forced into celibacy. When you are forced into celibacy because you are obeying God’s moral laws and you do not have a mate, the tendency is to turn towards God because you are lonely and you are miserable and you want to be comforted. So you turn towards God, and you start on a path whose ultimate end is this [AUDIO CUTS OUT] of the mind, you know, we are not exper- -- [AUDIO CUTS OUT] now.
[AUDIO CUTS OUT] Paul says for these young people, if they are not kept busy and they are allowed to just hang out, their bestial nature is going to stir up, and they will turn off of that path, the end of which is marriage to God, and they are going to turn back towards a bestial marriage. And the Lord says that once you have turn towards God, once you have turned in the direction of a marriage towards God, unless he is the one that gives you a marriage -- and I --
Look, everybody here that is single, God may give you a mate, and I do not know. He does not consult me. I am talking in principle. He may give you a wife or a husband. I really do not know, [?OK,?] but in the event that God brings you on the path towards him and God does not give you a marriage and you turn off and get yourself your own mate, Paul says that is turning away from God towards Satan, and that is the size of it.
So everything we say in the world, everything is relative, OK. If you are an adult, you can have sex if you are married. You can have sex if you are married and your mate wants it. You cannot rape someone even in marriage. OK. There are a variety of factors. If the factors are all correct, you can engage in sexual activity of the body, and if the factors are not there, you cannot. So everything is relative.
If God has called you and has determined to bring you into a marriage with him, which is a sexuality of the mind -- excuse me -- then he will start to dry up your opportunities for sex of the body, and, if it is in fact God doing it to you, there is nothing you can do to stop it. He will get you. If it is God, he is going to bring you where he wants you, but it is a really tough issue, you know. People really get upset over that.
And, you know, you say something to a -- like this to a young person -- you know, someone in their 20s or in their 30s or in their 40s or in their -- you know, people -- you s- -- you tell that to people, they get really upset, you know. So I hope that I explained it to you and that there is no condemnation in being engaged in a beast activity if that is where you are. If you are a beast --
You know, it sounds terrible, but open up your ears. You are a spirit man. If you are fallen to a point where you are living in a beast body and you are meeting all of God’s criteria and he has given you a wife or a husband, enjoy yourself. But if he has not --
Please do not get mad at me. People get very mad at me when I preach this. Please do not get mad at me. It is not my law, but I am telling you the truth, that we are living in a beast body and that this body is not going into heaven with us. We are a type of Nebuchadnezzar that we read about in the Book of Daniel. We have fallen down. We were at high spiritual realms with the glory of God, with full satisfaction.
The sexual activity of the flesh is very lacking -- very lacking -- in its ability to completely satisfy us. All kinds of things go wrong, all kinds of trouble associated with it. The sex of the mind with God is continuous. It is perfect. It is perfect. It is no- -- I cannot even say it is perfect every time. It never ends.
It never hurts. It never ends. It is perfect, and it is complete in its satisfaction. And the problem that the church is dealing with in this hour is that this in-between transitional stage where you do not have either one can be very stressful, although you do have something of the Lord, but it is not the complete thing, you know.
And the pull -- the gravitational -- the spiritual gravitational pull of this body is horrendous, and that is what this beast body is, and that is what this beast mind is. It is a spiritual gravitation that keeps pulling you down. As you try to ascend up into the heavenlies, it pulls you down, and it tries to keep you in the beast body. It tries to keep you engaged in the beast behavior.
And what Jesus is trying to do is get us up over this beast mind. When we take dominion over the beast mind, then we will have dominion over the beast body, but the cravings of the body and the mind, they are very strong.
But I will take it a step further, you know. The Lord has really shown me very clearly only recently -- now, y- -- look, you have to really get your brai- -- you have to really get your mind up there, you know. This is a high spiritual truth. Listen to me. The true sexuality is between the Spirit of God and man -- the Spirit of God, male, and man, female.
When man engages in a sexual union of the body, spiritually speaking -- spiritual -- now, you got to -- just like when I say to you -- when we talk about spiritual sex and the Scripture says there is no male or female in Christ Jesus, but if you are in a natural marriage, that the man is the head of the wife. You have to know where you are. You cannot be a woman who is -- in whom Christ is being formed and go and try to take over your natural marriage. Your husband is the head of the marriage. He is the head of the home. He is the head of your children, and you have to treat him as such or you are in rebellion against God.
Well, this -- the same kind of rule applies here. I am talking now -- I am giving you a high spiritual truth, and I am talking about something that someone very high up spiritually is engaged in. It is not true for the average person down here in the earth. Can you hear me? Let me say that again.
One of the things that I teach here is there is no male or female in Christ Jesus. That is talking about your mind, that you can have a male mind no matter what your body is, but that spiritually male mind that you have cannot be used to overtake natural authority down here on the earth. Is everybody OK? OK.
So what I am going to tell you now, it is true of people that are high up in the spirit, and if you try to apply it to your natural lives down here, it is going to cause you distress. OK. Is everybody OK? The true marriage is between the Spirit of God and man; therefore, when a man and a woman come together, as God sees it, as a resurrected, superior being sees it, it is homosexual. It does not matter if one is in a woman’s body and the other is in a man’s body. It is soul to soul. It is soul to soul, and as God sees it, it is homosexuality.
That is why when the Scripture says no homosexual will enter into heaven, all you Pharisees out there say, well, that does not mean me. I have -- I have never been near a man, you know. Well, yes, you have, you know. This whole human race are lesbians. In relationship to God, we are all in a lesbian relationship, but for the people living down here in it, that is not true. Can you hear what I am saying?
That is why when the angels came into Sodom -- the angels came into Sodom and all the homosexuals in the street, they just wanted those three angels, and they were banging on the doors saying, send down those three men, to Lot -- you know, send down those three men. They wanted to have sex with those three men. I never really understood that, you know, but I am starting to understand it now, that as the Christ mind starts to ascend in people, in those people who are called to celibacy and -- not just -- you can be called to celibacy and still be down here waiting for your wife to come, but the people who are called to celibacy, the -- to be a eunuch, to really go all the way up, as the mind of Christ starts manifesting in them, there will be carnal people coming trying to draw them into human relationships of the body, and that --
And God told me just these last few weeks that that were the -- those were the reprobate men of Sodom clamoring for the angels. Those of us who are called to ascend, who God has told -- and I believe I am one of them -- who God has told there will be no marriage. I am ascending to a place where I will truly marry God, OK, that there will be human men coming around, a woman in my condition, offering to marry me, but in God’s eyes, it is that angel -- it is that homosexual in Sodom saying, send down that angel. I want the homosexual activity with the angel who is called to God. Can you hear what I am saying? You do not have to believe it, you know, but this is what the Lord told me.
So that is the bottom line. So, you see, there are a lot of people in the world, and they say that, you know, Christians are all hung-up on sex and all this stuff, but they just -- they do not understand. They do not understand. And, of course, there are a lot of Christians who do make a religious thing out of it, and there are Christians who are hung-up on sex, the -- but the actual spiritual principle of the Scripture is not that sex is bad.
It is not bad. God never said sex was bad. He said if you are married, you enjoy it, but if you are called to something else, then you have to give it up because that which you are called to is the exact opposite of the beast nature. You have to give up the things of the beast if you want to become and angel because in heaven there is no marrying or giving in marriage, but you are like the angels. So if you want to be an angel, you have to stop acting like a beast.
But the bottom line is that somehow God has to -- you see, I have a revelation of this. I just pray that God helps you all to understand -- well, I -- that we are headed for something better. We are headed for something better, but the average human beings that hears they have to give up what is considered normal -- and for down here in hell it is normal, you know. Most, you know, people would not want their children to spend their whole life never having a loving relationship with a member of the opposite sex. No, it is -- that is not desirable, but if you can know that there is something better, if that is what you are headed for, it is tolerable, but it is a very tough issue, yeah, because people’s --
We are all -- we are -- for all intents and purposes, we are the beast. Do you know, we are told in the Book of Revelation we are the beast, so we f- -- we have his feelings and we have his mind. So it is very nice, someone comes to you and tells you that God wants to marry you and God wants to raise you up and God wants to give you sex of the mind, so you just stay down here and deal with this problem. You know, people do not want to hear that because it is a big problem for a lot of people -- most people. It is a big problem. So you could tell them all the intellectual stories you want to tell them, that God has something better for you, and in the long run, you know, sex of the mind is better than sex of the body, but when their body is screaming, they really do not want to hear it. So it is a problem. Did I answer your question, Rhea [SP]?
I was just thinking in the natural world that there are young people marrying, both of whom have the HIV virus, and they actually are committed not to have sex in their marriage because even with using these condoms and not -- they say there is a tremendous risk.
One out of three tr- -- gets the disease.
But they are just marrying for companionship, you know, just to have the comforts of a fam- -- well, not a family so to speak if they do not have children, but just, you know, for companionship. You see that more and more with elderly couples [UNINTELLIGIBLE] really senior citizens, there is that.
Well, you know, you cannot diminish the importance of sexual activity because, you know, people just are not going to listen to you, you know, but the truth is that the best marriages are between people who are friends and want to be together whether they could have it or not, you know, because if you get married just for sex and for -- something happens and that sex stops, the whole marriage falls apart, you know. It is not a good reason to get married because it will not last. If somebody gets sick or something goes wrong or -- it is the end of your marriage.
But it is a big problem for people down here in hell, you know. Cannot dim- -- cannot deny that people have this need, so what do you tell them, you know? I do not know.
[INAUDIBLE] people say, what has it all become [UNINTELLIGIBLE] where is the battle?
Where is the battle? What is that?
Other words, they do not even realize the things that they have to overcome in their everyday life. It is --
-- just a simple little thing like sex in a marriage or something like that. The battles are always there, and you always have to overcome, and, you know, we do not even consider them as really a battle [CROSSTALK]
Oh, it is a continuous overcoming. Yeah. Well, you know, you just hope -- first of all, you just hope for the best, and you see what God has for you, you know. Maybe he has a marriage for you[?, you know?]. I certainly would not want anyone to worry about it, you know.
I am just thinking about the restraints that the Lord puts on those that he has designed to marry. There are so many Christians that say sex is only for procreation, but [?He has given?] you --
-- control over every aspect --
-- of your sexual life, --
That is ridiculous.
-- even the choice.
I do not mean --
That is my opinion. That is ridiculous to -- for a man and a woman to be married and only have sex [?for maybe?] three times. You know, a lot of people get all carried away, you know, but Paul said do not withhold yourself. Paul said do not withhold yourself. He said except for a season when you are praying and fasting. He said to the man, you know, your body is not your own. He said to the wife, your body is not your own. [INAUDIBLE] not supposed to do that.
And that is just the chapter I was looking at.
This whole chapter has a lot of information [INAUDIBLE] -- thank you. It says, “Now concerning the things of which you wrote to me, it is good for a man not to touch a woman.”
Can you tell me what good means in the Greek there? I mean, I could probably --
-- think about it --
I really cannot teach -- I have a whole --
-- series on it where I looked up every word, but I really do not remember the teaching. I do know that that translation is a very poor translation, and, if I am not mistaken, that is not what it is saying at all, that it is -- but I do not want to get into it because I am not prepared, but we do have the series on it, and the true translation is very different. [CROSSTALK]
If we want to read the better translation, what do we do, go to the interlinear? If we have an interlinear, is that going to tell us [CROSSTALK]
Well, I have the alternate translations in the book, if you want to look it up, and I have messages on it.
What alternate translations?
When I do a series that I look up every word, I work up alternate translations.
Oh, the ones that you -- that I have studied from.
Right, and they are in the binders on top of the file cabinet, --
Oh, I see.
-- or you could listen to the message. I think there is three parts to the series. But he does say -- he does clearly say that it is a different form of satisfaction in a relationship with Christ, but Paul said it is a gift. Everybody cannot do it. God has to call you to do it because this body has a spiritual gravity that keeps us down here, and it is a problem. You cannot deny the problem for the people for whom it is a problem. So God has to help us.
Some people he will give a mate to, and other people, he will deal with it however he will deal with it. You have to seek God. Every individual has to seek God as for his answer to your problem.
[AUDIO CUTS OUT]
[INAUDIBLE] chapter is not to marry for lust -- not to marry for lust -- that if you have lust, the answer to your problem is not marriage. I cannot tell you how many stories I have heard of people marrying for lust, and then they get married and something goes wrong in that marriage, and the -- either there is no sex or the sex is not enough for them, and the whole marriage blows apart. So what the message is saying, that is not a reason to get married.
Paul is saying if you have lust, the answer to your problem is to serve God. Now, that sounds crazy at first until you take time to understand that, yes, lust is partially physical, but lust is also mental, and it arises largely out of socialized factors, and that it is a -- it is -- you think in many -- well, I am getting myself into another -- into all kinds of problems here.
Listen to the messages. What the Scripture says is that if you have a lust problem, the answer is not to get married. Now, the translation is if you have a lust problem, you should get married, but that is not what it really says. It says if you have a lust problem, you should turn to God, and he is going to give you such an extensive satisfaction through his Spirit that it will not be a problem for you anymore.
It does not mean do not have sex. It means if you have a lust problem -- if you are driven -- like, some men in some societies will say, well, I need a wife and three girlfriends because my wife is not enough for me. And so what Paul is saying, if you have a lust problem, marriage is not the answer. It means there is something lacking in you that you are hungry all the time. Maybe what is lacking in you is spiritual satisfaction. He is not saying do not get married. He is saying it should not be an obsession with you, and if you are driven continuously, maybe you think that that is what it is, but it is a spiritual lust.
And I want to tell you that there is a natural example for that because when I used to have all those problems with my health, I found out that I would be hungry all the time, and I would eat and eat, and what I really had was a vitamin deficiency, but that vitamin deficiency did not register in my mind as I have this need, and I am going to go get this vitamin need satisfied. It registered in my mind as a desire for a food that was bad for me, and I would eat this food and eat this food and eat this food, and I would never be satisfied until I found out that it was a vitamin deficiency. And I started eating brown rice and whole grain bread, and then I stopped being hungry all the time.
Can you hear what I am saying? You do not have to believe it. Can you hear what I am saying? That craving sex all the time could be something other than a normal sexuality. It could be an emotional lack. It could be a spiritual lack. I am not saying do not have sex. I am saying maybe it is a mixture of a normal desire for sex and an emotional or a spiritual need that is hiding under the guise of sexually [sic].
I just saw the “700 Club” the other day, and they did a tremendous program on men. It really blessed me to see all these men coming to the Lord. Did you see that one? One guy, he was an attorney, and he said he was never home. You know, [?he?I?] was lying and cheating on his wife, and he was out continuously, and he was out with all these women.
And when he came to the Lord and he developed a relationship with the Lord, he started getting satisfied from his family life, from being the head of the family, from the respect that comes to -- when God was raising him up as the high priest of the family. And it just calmed him down, and he was satisfied with what he had. So he was still engaged in a sex life with his wife, but he did not need all these women anymore because he was getting all this respect at home and the love that came from his children.
So do you hear what I am saying? That there is a normal level of sexuality, which has a high and a low. There are variations between what is normal, but anything outside of that, it could be an emotional or a spiritual need hiding itself as a craving for lust.
So Paul says if you have a lust problem, the answer is not to get married, but to turn to God, and then when you turn to God, God will decide whether or not that you are one who needs a marriage. God decides, you know. So --
[AUDIO CUTS OUT]
I was just thinking people in world say that when a man rapes a woman, he should be castrated, but actually the sexual organ is the mind. I mean, maybe the sexual organ is used as the weapon -- but, I mean, maybe the sexual organ is used as the weapon, but it is still -- it is always in the mind.
It originates in the mind. Well, it originates in the mind. It is physical. It is physical too.
But it -- the -- it comes from the mind, right? It is chemicals that come in the mind that really driving [CROSSTALK] --
It is all in the --
-- spiritual --
Yeah. Well. OK. Let us -- [INAUDIBLE] -- I see what you are saying. It is the beast -- OK. Let me put it to you this way.
Now, remember, we are in a very high spiritual realm today. For so long as we are down here in the earth, human sexuality is acceptable to God. Is everybody with me? OK. The cravings of the carnal mind are expressed physically. The cravings of the Christ mind are expressed spiritually. That is the difference. That mind which you have -- OK.
So since we are getting a new mind and we are going from the carnal mind to the Christ mind, we -- it would be proper to expect the expression of that mind to be on a different level. The carnal mind expresses itself physically. It expresses its needs and its satisfactions physically, and the Christ mind is satisfied through a spiritual union.
So once your mind is converted -- and that is what full stature is. Once your carnal mind goes down under -- and, you see, this is what people do not understand. They think they are going to -- they think that this teaching is that they are going to be in torment forever. You are not going to be in torment forever. That when the carnal mind comes under the authority of the Christ mind, satisfaction will be up and not down. So there is no torment. You are not supposed to be tormented. You are supposed to be satisfied. It is just a question of how you are going to be satisfied. God has not called us to torment. He has called us to peace, but it is a battle overcoming the carnal mind.
To change the subject, what is the best way to express anger and intention? I know it is -- it needs to come out, you know, in a godly way, --
-- and it is best to, of course, you know, express it on someone or curse or whatever. I mean, it is not the best way. So what is -- you know, what is the -- what is a godly way? I have never heard anybody really preach what is a godly way to express it?
Well, there is godly anger and there is ungodly anger, OK. Ultimately, a goal that we would set for ourselves, a goal that I would recommend, and I know it is where the Lord has brought me to, is that to be able to verbally express that anger really takes the edge off with me, if I could tell you how I feel and I am angry at you because and this is how I feel.
But most people or many people, they do not even know why they are angry because they do not have the training that we are getting here, and we are getting training here to even understand why we are angry, to understand what the other person did that made us have this reaction. Most people are on reflex action. You know what a reflex is? You hit your knee, and your leg kicks out. They just, all of a sudden, whoop, they are off and running, and they do not even have any idea what made them mad.
So before you can come into this godly place of saying, hey, look, I do not like what you did, you know. I love you, and I want this relationship, but I do not like what you did. To me, that is enou- -- pretty much enough for me, but for people who are not there, there are all kinds of techniques to get their anger out. Some people have baseball bats and dummies in their house or they beat pillows.
Do you believe in that?
I believe in that until -- I believe in that until -- it is not ideal. It is only transitional. The event -- the ultimate deliverance from ungodly anger, as far as I am concerned, is to be able to understand why you are angry and to be able to express your anger to the person who did something that angered you and say to them, look, do you think you could not do that anymore, you know? That really upsets me, and can we work together on this or just tell the person [?off?]. That is the highest manifestation of the discharge of anger.
Now, I find that even if the person will not work with me, just the fact that I identified the problem and told them that I did not like it and that I would not accept it, that is all that I need. But if you need more, you know, just do not -- you do not hit the person. You do not hit the walls. You do not get a bat and hit the couch or something like that.
So I do not know whether this is godly anger or ungodly anger, but anger that is accumulated over -- from past experiences of childhood days of -- that you are finding that in your life now you cannot live out your life correctly because it keeps overshadowing you. You know, what is the best way to get this anger out?
Oh, well, in a situation like that, it has to be exposed what you are angry at. It has to be exposed to you because you are caught in a vicious circle of -- [?you?] get caught in a vicious cycle of -- and the way it works is that -- let us say, for example, your father or your mother or somebody hurt you severely at a very young age, and it produces a spiritual wound in you.
And for the rest of your life, every time someone does something that whoever the person was, your mother, let us say -- excuse me -- every time you come a- -- you interact with someone who says something the way she said it or moves her head the way your mother did, it -- you go into this rage, and under normal circumstances the woman in your present life did not do anything wrong. It was just the way she moves her head reminds you of something very hurtful that your mother did.
And the only way to get out of that is to dig down deep and find -- and face the incident and face the anger of the original person that set you on this vicious cycle. And you have to admit to yourself what was done to you. You have to admit to yourself just the whole -- just have to face the whole thing, and then that anger just subsides.
I have a question about expressing the anger to somebody. What if you desire to express your anger to the other person that you are angry at, and if you sat down with them and told them, and as soon as you said, “I am angry about this, and I do not like what you did,” they get angry at you, and, in other words, they are not letting you express it? What do you do in that case?
Well, you have to know who you are talking to, you know, and if it is a person that is not into this kind of communication, you would be best to not tell them. Well, that is not true either. You have to be -- if it is a person that is not into this kind of communication, then you have to know -- you have to count the cost. Tell them how you feel and be careful not to accuse them. You have to be careful not to accuse them.
If you tell them, “Look, I become upset at such-and-such behavior,” and then when they get angry at you, you tell them, “Look, I do not mean to aggravate you, but I just had to get that off my chest,” and do not engage in an argument. Now, if you think you are going to be seduced into an argument, then you should not even say anything at all.
And, of course, each situation is individual. There are some times that you really cannot tell the other person. You have to pray about every situation because you want to do something that is going to be productive. You do not want to increase enmity. You want to make peace. You want to be -- bring deliverance, and some people you just cannot talk to, so you have to take it to the Lord.
And you also have to --
And so what I just heard --
-- you also have to ask yourself what your motive is. If your motive of telling the person is to hurt them back, that if your motive is ungodly, you should not do it. If you are telling them that you are hurt, if your motive is retaliation or revenge or any kind of damage, you should not be talking to that person.
So what I heard from you is with someone who would likely get on guard or be -- get upset or get angry immediately just because you confronted them about the situation, you are saying to go ahead and confront them using discretion and say, “I just had to say this”?
Well, you really have to --
I am not --
-- pray about every case. You really have to pray about every case. That is really hard, you know. Some people could take it, and some people cannot.
What is likely to be God’s answer about it, would you --
It depends on the individual. God’s answer is that he wants good fruit to come out of this confrontation. He wants increased communication, reconciliation and the love of God to be made manifest. If you are going to open up a can of worms, maybe it is not the right time for that person. And, of course, your own motive and your own attitude is number one.
Because if the person -- if you decide that you want to do that, and the person immediately gets angry at you and wants to control the whole conversation, then what do you do, just drop it?
Get out. Get out. Say “God bless you and I will talk to you about it another time” and get out. We are not supposed to be fighting with each other. We are the sons of God, brethren.
Now, in your case, you do not -- people are all under you. You do not have somebody over you, but if the person is under and they have the -- an authority over them, what do you do in that case? I know it is different. If you want to express something that you are angry about that an authority did to you, it is not the same, I am sure.
No, you should be able to tell them. I tell you all the time. You can tell me anything as long as you come to me in the right spirit, as long as you are not coming to me to rebuke me or coming to me to correct me. I most likely will not listen to you, but if you are coming to me to tell me that you are hurt at something that I did, I would like to believe I would listen to you, and, as far as I know, I always have. I may not agree with you that -- and that is another thing. If you want to come to me, you have to come knowing that I may not agree with you that I did wrong to you and that I may not be willing to make any changes that you want me to make.
So if you could do that, if you have enough self-discipline to come to me and say, “Look, I feel that you did me wrong,” and if you are strong enough to know that I just may say to you, “Well, I am sorry. I do not agree with you, but I will pray with you about it” -- if you are not going to be able to handle that, then you really should stay away because as soon as you move into a wrong spirit I will probably rebuke you.
Is it denial to just let the idiosyncrasies of people just pass on by because you just do not really think that it is any kind of big deal?
[?It is not?] denial?
Yes, that is denial because nothing is an idiosyncrasy, you see. If someone offends you, it should be dealt with so long as you can deal with [AUDIO CUTS OUT] [?we are being?] [AUDIO CUTS OUT] --
And then, again, of course, you know, every -- you really have to give me specific examples. If somebody -- you know, you are going to have to give me your specific examples, but I will tell you this. If somebody really wrongs you -- you are going to have to give me specific examples because there are so many factors. It depends on what the balance is, what spirit you are coming out of.
Ideally, those of us who are coming to meetings like this are being trained to respond with righteous judgment. And righteous judgment means that you say to the person, “Look, you offended me. I know --.” Either “I know you did not mean to do it,” or “Even if I knew -- know you meant to do it, I am not here for vengeance. I am not here for retaliation, but what you did was wrong, and for your own sake, there must be a consequence to what you have done because God wants you to be a holy man.” That is what righteous judgment is.
When you come looking for vengeance or retaliation, that is a wrong motive, and you should not be pursuing it. But when your motive is to point out to the other person that it cannot possibly help them to go through life doing this to another 50 people over the next year, it cannot be good for them, therefore, you are going to have to -- there is going to have to be a consequence. That is what righteous judgment is, that you are doing it for their benefit; not for your benefit. Did I answer your question? [INAUDIBLE]
That is an -- in a t- -- your teaching, right? You are really teaching them when you do that.
Yes, you are teaching them.
Yeah. So if I had a problem with my boss, I cannot go and have that attitude with my boss. It is completely turned around.
It is from an underneath position. I cannot go and say, “Look, you offended me.”
I cannot do that.
Well, what you could do with a boss if it is really bothering you --
I cannot try to help him or teach him.
He would pick that up in a second.
No, you cannot do that.
He would not --
He would probably fire you, yeah.
He would not put up with it.
No. What you can do with a boss -- if you cannot get over this and it is playing over and over and over in your head and you cannot sleep and it is driving you crazy, what you can do is say, “Look, I just need to -- you know, to express myself to -- that this upset me,” but it depends on your boss. You know, some bosses would bite your head off if you did even that, so you just swallow it, you know.
Like, you could come and tell me that, and I would say to you, “OK, you are complaint is registered. If there was anything I could do to help you, I would, but that is the way it has to be.” That is me, OK, but I am a minister, but the average boss would just say, --
-- “What are you -- get out of my office,” --
-- “you crazy person.”
People react different ways, I think. I remember expressing myself to a boss I had once, and she really listened to me, and her at- -- her complete --
Some bosses do.
-- her attitude changed towards me completely when I confronted her that day, and I almost felt kind of guilty. I thought, did I go to her in self-pity or something and I made her feel sorry for me? Why is she treating me so nice?
Well, maybe she felt you were right, and she is an --
-- honest woman.
But ha- -- my question right now is, how do you tell when you are really being legitimate and you are expressing yourself, and you do not have to go away feeling like, I hope I did not use something ungodly on them or self-pity or control or something or when it is actually self-pity or control? How do you tell when it is really legitimate?
God has to tell you. Either God has to tell you in your heart before you go, or you have to come to a spiritual elder who will help you to try the spirit. And that is what righteous judgment is. Did you go with a legitimate complaint in a right spirit trying to bring peace of mind? Because sometimes people in authority mess up. Sometimes they do mistreat you, but they are not aware of it. So you should be able to talk to them, you know.
But the bottom line is you have to have it in your heart before you go and talk to them, that if they say to you -- well, if they hear you out and they say, “I do not agree with you, and I cannot make the changes,” that you must accept it, as soon as you do not accept it, you are putting pressure on them. It is witchcraft. It is rebellion, and you are in trouble with God. Now, you see, you have to know yourself. Can you take the no?
So this authority issue is very important. You have to know where you stand in every relationship; otherwise, you are going to do the wrong thing. If you think you have the authority and you do not have the authority, you are going to be in rebellion. If you think you have the authority and you act like you have the authority, but you do not have the authority, that means you are coming against the person that has the true authority, and that makes you a Jezebel who is in rebellion.
So you have to know who has the authority in every relationship. That is the first thing you have to determine because there are certain things that it is acceptable for you to do if you have the authority that are not acceptable to -- for you to do if you do not have the authority. So you have to know who you are. You have to know whether you are the man or the woman in every relationship, in every encounter, and God will never back you up if you are rebelling against authority. He will not do it. He will whoop you. God hates rebellion. He hates it.
Being fearful to stand up to authority too -- God hates that too, right, if you are fearful?
Well, I do not know that I would say that God hates it. It is not -- fear is never of God, but it is understandable, if you can hear it. It is understandable. People are afraid of authority. I am afraid of authority. I am. When I come under -- it has not happened to me in a long time, you know, but sometimes I am afraid of God, you know. It is -- there is -- it is just a natural response to a godly authority, you know, and it makes you anxious.
The boldness is in the authority. That is why the Scripture says we are supposed to be the head and not the tail. We are supposed to be the lender and not the borrower. That is just not speaking about money. That is speaking about everything in life. The son is supposed to be the head and, therefore, fearless in all things.
But just being in that position of submission does open the door for some very understandable fear. It is just human, you know, we -- that is why we are told that husbands should love their wives -- and I cannot quote the exact Scripture -- but have mercy on the weaker vessel. It does not mean that women are physically or mentally weak. It means they are in an office -- they are in a place where you have authority over them. It means you could hurt them.
Anyone that you have authority over, you can hurt real bad. Emotionally, spiritually, you can really hurt them. What you say and how you relate to people that you have authority over strongly affects their lives, and that does not mean the person under you was weak. It just means that God gave you authority over them. You better not abuse that authority.
So it is natural to have fear. I would not say God hates it. I think he would like you to overcome it, but it is very understandable. The abomination is the one who has the authority misusing it. That is what God hates. He hates abusive authority.
I think one of the things I struggle with is the sin of omission against commission. [INAUDIBLE] to me it is just as wrong not to do something that you think is right as to be wrong in doing what you thought was right. [INAUDIBLE]
Yeah. Well, that is true, but the bottom line is we have to get our thoughts straight. We have to know what is right. That is what we are doing here. We are receiving instruction in righteousness. We have to know what is right. You cannot do what is right until you know what is right. Whether it is commission or omission, you have to know what is right. Our minds have to be trained to know what is right in accordance with God’s law, not in accordance with man’s law, and that is what we are doing here.
See, if you go into the Army, you know what is required of you. It is very clear. You know what is required of you. You know what is right, and when you know what is right, then you have a choice. Either you do it, or you do not do it, and you bear the consequences. But what is happening all over God’s church and God’s army is people that do not know what is right, and they are messing up, and they are getting into all kinds of trouble because they really think they are right.
Now, you would not see any lieutenant punching out a general. He knows he is not supposed to do it, but in God’s army, the people -- the minds of the people are all messed up. They do not know who is the boss and who is not the boss, and they are without understanding. And we are the sons of God, and we are supposed to be teaching everybody what is right so that they could choose to be obedient, if they so choose, and, therefore, be in God’s -- the best possible relationship with the Lord.
This instruction is as important as the teachings in the Scripture. It is instruction for life. You have to know how to get by in life. Your relationships are very important. God is watching. Not going to kill you if you do something wrong, but he is going to bring a correction. He is watching. He wants us to be in right relationship to one another -- honoring one another, respecting one another, being sensitive to one another, and not doing or restraining ourselves from doing deliberately hurtful or insensitive things or saying deliberately hurtful or insensitive things.
And it is not acceptable to God to say, “I did not know that that would hurt you,” or “I did not know that was wrong.” He wants to teach you. He is correcting you. Now you know. Do not do it again. Build up your brother. Do not tear him down. Build him up. Strengthen him. Do not tear him down. The Scripture clearly states that. Now that you have been strengthened, strengthen your brother. It is very clear. You do not use the strength that you get in Christ to beat down the other guy. There is enough of God for everybody -- more than enough.
[AUDIO CUTS OUT]
It is very common in some marriages that the marriages are really codependent. Although we did not hear much about codependency before these recent years, but one of the signs -- one of the sure signs of codependency is that the one party cannot tell where they end off and the other party begins, and that is what is happening [AUDIO CUTS OUT] he is having a problem realizing that you are different than he is. In other words, he thinks a stick-shift car is best, therefore, you, he assumes, of -- are of the same mind and the same accord.
So if someone finds themself [sic] in a marriage -- excuse me -- and signs of codependency are manifesting, well, the only thing that we could do is really change ourselves because every change must produce a change. Every reaction [sic] produces a reaction. You cannot force people to change. The world knows this. If there is trouble in your marriage, you -- and your husband will not go to therapy, you go yourself. When you change, he must change because he can no longer react in the same ways because you are not the same.
So this is a sign of codependency. It used to be called a symbiotic relationship. The natural sign -- the natural example we have are Siamese twins. And it is very painful to the person who is not in authority in this kind of symbiotic relationship because, whether you are aware of it or not, what is really happening to you is that you are being dehumanized. You are being dehumanized. You are being treated as a nonperson. You are being treated as an extension of the authority figure. He is the one that makes all of the decision based on his own needs. Even if he loves you, this atta- -- this ungodly attachment to this other person is very painful.
So I do not want you to think that we have no mercy or compassion for you. What we are saying is that the answer to your problem is to submit so that God can move in the marriage, but I acknowledge there is a lot wrong there and that this is the major problem. A man is trying to be kind to you, but he cannot tell where he ends off and you begin, and he is having trouble understanding that you are different from him, that you are separate from him, that you have different thoughts and different needs and different opinions and that it really is an emotional problem in him. It is called codependency.
So I want you to understand that we are not against you. We are for you. Neither are we saying that all of the blame is yours, but we are saying the answer to the problem is for you to get into right line, and then God could move. Do you understand what I said? OK.
It is very painful to be in a symbiotic relationship which makes you an infant. Symbiotic relationships makes [sic] the weaker vessel infantile. A 1-month-old baby has nothing whatsoever to say about what is best for them, but they are completely subject to the caretaker, and that is fine t- -- it is fine to have that kind of relationship between an adult and a 1-month-old baby and a 2-month-old baby, and even then the baby likes to exercise some authority by crying and seeing whether or not you respond to that cry.
So it is a human need to desire to have one’s own individuality or the expressions of one’s own individuality responded to. This is a human need, to be an individual and to be respected and loved as an individual. It is a human need. So if we find ourself [sic] in a relationship where the authority figure is not acknowledging our individuality, it is very painful. The question is what do you do about it? And you have to complain within God’s prescribed laws. You have to do it in accordance with God’s law school. You have to do it his way if you want to get any victory at all.
Even with children -- when you are raising children. A lot of aware parents, they will give their children choices, you know. Do you want the apple juice or the orange juice, Johnny? It does not really make any difference to Mom. It should not make any difference to Mom whether you drink the apple juice or the orange juice as long as you drink juice. That is the -- ideally, that is the way it is supposed to be. Children need to be trained to make choices. If you make all of their choices for them, they grow up to be crippled adults which cannot make choices.
Now, another woman in your position would become a bowl of oatmeal. She would just let her husband make every decision and just dry up inside, and women that fall into this, sometimes they will describe themselves as nonentities. They are just shadows of their husband. Now, you are too strong to fall into that, but you are fighting in the wrong way.
So I just want to affirm you -- affirm your existence to you [UNINTELLIGIBLE] and affirm the fact that you have got a very real problem there and that I know it, that you have my deepest compassion, but -- and God wants to help you. You have to do it by his rules.
It is very painful. It is like having a broken leg that has been healed the wrong way. No matter what your problem is in Christ, when you cry out to Jesus to help you, the first thing he does is break apart the wrong relationship. You got to come into right relationship in order to get that healing.
And it is very painful because you come to the Lord saying, “Well, Lord, I have got this problem and I have got that problem, and he is doing this to me and he is doing that to me,” and it is a shock when the Lord answers your prayers by saying, “I want to help you, and I am going to help you by showing you what is wrong with you.”
No Christian that I have ever known has ever expected that response from God, but that is how God works. So we need to know him. We need to know him, and we need to understand his ways; otherwise, we think that he is abandoning us, and he is not helping us, and he is not being honest and sincere with us or that he is not real.
But we need to understand that every problem that we have in this external world is a result of a failure on our part, and the truth is that anyone -- any woman that finds themself [sic] in a pro- -- in a situation like this has to say, “How did I wind up married to a man like this?” So it is not to take the blame on oneself, but to recognize that every circumstance in our life is a result of either family line curses or mistakes that we have made and that it is not just an accident that we found ourself [sic] in this painful marriage.
And if Christ is in your life, he wants to give you the victory -- the deep, spiritual victory that will remove these curses not only from your marriage, but from your children’s lives. So we in our carnality, we just want the surface healing, but that is not good enough for Jesus. He wants the deep, spiritual healing. So, therefore, he shows us our errors.
And, you know, for many of us, it sounds unfair and we get angry at him because our carnal mind would like to think it is all the other guy, but we are in this mess because of our sin. We are under this oppressor because of our sin.
It is just like -- think of the Hebrews in the Book of Judges. Every time the Book of Judges says the Hebrew children got into trouble, they cried out, and God raised up a judge. Well, the Hebrew children cried out. They say, oh, how did this wicked Midianite come to dominate us? Because you sinned, children of Israel, OK, yet there is no condemnation in it because we probably were so caught up in our family line curses we did not even know what we were doing.
But the bottom line is if God would deliver you from this surface problem, you will just get into another one, so he wants to deliver you from the root. From the root, and, therefore, he shows you your problems in this circumstance.
God is fair. He is not a respecter of persons. He is not cruel. He is a loving God. We just frequently do not understand his ways. We do not understand his ways, but he is great.
OK. Anybody else [INAUDIBLE]
That Scripture where it says -- I think the Lord Jesus says you cannot divorce your partner unless if -- saving for the cause of fornication, and somebody told me that it does not mean saving in the Scriptures. I mean, that Scripture leads us to believe when you just read it that, well, in the case of fornication, you can divorce that person. If they were found in adultery, you can divorce them, and somebody told me that it does not mean that at all, which I do not know if they were right or not, but they said it means -- when I studied this out, I never found this, but the person told me it meant even if they do commit adultery, you are supposed to stay with them.
And I am asking you what you feel about that because my sister just went through that, and she put up with everything, the drugs and everything, but when she found him in adultery, she is, like, that is it. I am getting out of this marriage and she wants to divorce him, but now she is, like, back and forth. She does not know what to do, and so -- that is what -- it is a big question, but --
-- what is the answer?
Well, the Scripture does not say that you cannot get divorced except for adultery. It says you cannot get divorced except for fornication, and the Greek word that is translated fornication is -- does not have the same meaning as the English word fornication. Excuse me. The Greek word fornication means any form of perversion. That means adultery, fornication, incest, if he is beating you, if he is on drugs, if he is burning the house down -- any kind of abnormal behavior that is disrupting your family life, that is continuing on a habitual basis is grounds for divorce.
Yeah, but it is supposed to be on a habitual basis. You are not supposed to divorce your husband for one act of adultery. He has to be an adulterer. It has to be an ongoing, continuous, unrepented [sic] condition. Like, I knew a couple in the church once where the guy had a girlfriend, and he -- they were both going to this church over there, and he just told her, “I will not give u- -- I will not give her up,” so she left. That is legal grounds for divorce.
Well, she -- my sister watched that same “700 Club” show where the woman knew that he was doing drugs and he was in trouble and he committed adultery and everything when he left her, and she still prayed -- and she came to the Lord and she prayed he would too and he would come back to her. And even though she knew all this, she still wanted him and received him back, and she was, like, “I wish that could happen,” you know, but --
Well, you have to -- you have -- that takes a lot of love. Actually -- yeah.
She is changing in the sense that even though he committed adultery, she is almost willing to take him back, but --
Yeah, well, adultery is not the unforgivable sin. There are sins worse than adultery. I think incest -- I think your husband incesting [sic] your little girl is much worse than adultery. Adultery is not -- adultery is the sin that kills your pride, now.
Well, he was, like, on drugs and abusing the little one by putting him in the room for a long time by himself.
So she took him and left for that purpose.
-- well, the bottom line is that the Lord really has to release you from the marriage. I think abuse of children is a real valid reason.
[CROSSTALK] children [CROSSTALK]
It is a real valid reason, but you are supposed to be praying it through asking God what he is going to do for this marriage. It is supposed to be for life, for better or for worse, and in sickness and in health, and when things go wrong, you are supposed to go before the Lord and say, “What would you do with this marriage?” And God will answer you. I am telling you because he answered me. [INAUDIBLE] So the bottom line is that it is God. He has to decide what to do.
Well, I do not know if I should ask this question. If the person was found in adultery, how do you -- if you -- if sh- -- I mean, it is like if she is going to receive him back, is it even really godly? I mean, he could have AIDS or something.
Get a blood test.
Is it godly to force him to get a blood test?
You cannot force people to do anything. Ask him.
I mean, g- -- will you --
I mean, does she have the right to withdraw from him then?
Yeah, she has the right --
Because, I mean, you know, what the Bible says, so, I mean, in balance with that, I mean, where Paul says, well, you know, your body does not belong to you. In this situation, it is different, is not it?
She has the right to ask him to get a blood test, and then if he says yes, fine. If he says no, then you take it from there. There is no set rule, you know, and God is supposed to be in control of everything. In today’s world, I think it would be perfectly legitimate to ask the guy to take a blood test, you know, and if he does not want to do it -- so -- it still does not mean divorce, you see. If you will not get a blood test, she can refuse to sleep with him. That is not divorce. [CROSSTALK]
Well, that is what I mean, but then is she going against the Scripture where it says --
-- your body does not belong to you?
So she has a legitimate reason to --
Sure as long as it is not malice. You have to try your heart. Is it malice?
Is she getting back at him? Is she trying to hurt him? Or is she --
-- legitimately concerned about AIDS? Then sh- -- then it is legitimate.
Everything is motive. Everything is motive.
And do not forget, you know, you could separate for a season. Separation is not divorce, you know, if the -- I think the worst thing is the abuse of a child. That is really horrendous because they are innocent victims, but if the situation calls for it, she might choose to leave and see if he does not become convicted, but you have to believe. In every problem in life and people when they are in trouble, when they are in pain, they tend to forget about God, that God is moving in this problem and that you have to wait and see what God is going to do. But when we are in pain, and [AUDIO CUTS OUT] --
Transcribed by Verbal Fusion 02/21/16
02/23/16 1st Edit rh