221 - Part 2

Part 2 of 2 Parts


This Message Has Been Transcribed And Edited For

Clarity, Continuity Of Thought, And Punctuation By

The LEM Transcribing & Editing Team.



My younger sister, Theresa, was a -- I haven’t seen here in about two years. She lives in Ohio. And she was combing her hair down by a brook. And for some reason I walked down this trail. And I said Theresa, what are you up to? And we got to talking, but as we were talking, guess what was coming down the brook. A white horse with a unicorn through it. And she just did like a cartwheel, and got on the horse, and went right up the brook. I said can you do that again? Can you do that again? I said it twice to her. And she kept riding. And I stood by the brook, and a frog jumped, and --


A frog jumped?


A frog just happened to just jump. And I woke up, and I was like, I wonder what that means. You know? It seemed so real. You could hear the water. You could hear, you know, the horse getting up. It was like a mist. I’d never experienced a dream like that before. That’s weird. It was weird. It was really a weird dream.




The last time I saw her, she had, like, some pimples on her face. And in the dream, I noticed her skin was very clear. It was very shiny. It was, you know, she looked good, you know. So --


[INAUDIBLE] And then she mounted the horse. Now we all have a horse that Christ in us is supposed to be riding. But this hour, in most cases, the horse is riding us. So, well, a unicorn -- the word unicorn appears in the scripture. But the animal that that word describes in the scripture is not the animal that you see all over this country today, with the horse with the one horn coming in. The horse with the one horn coming in is an old cult symbol. And the word unicorn that appears in the scripture means -- I’m not sure what it means. A wild goat or something. I’m not sure. But it doesn’t mean --




Wild ox -- you’re probably right.




No, the Hebrew word that’s translated to unicorn is the wild ox.




The horse wouldn’t come back?


I said where are you going? And she just kept riding. And I stood there, because you could see from the brook -- because, you know, brooks are small. I just stood where I was, and I could see her in the distance. Then I just felt, like, a frog jump right on my foot. And I kept saying come back, and I woke up. She wouldn’t come back to me.


It’s because she went into a different realm. That’s interesting. Your sister, Theresa. Interesting. Would you do me a favor and get yourself a plate, please? Otherwise I’ll have to wash that pillow. I appreciate that.




No, don’t throw it away. Just take a plate.




Wow. I’ll see you in two days. Let’s see, what is -- today’s Thursday. We’ll see you Sunday morning. Praise the Lord. All I can tell you is I went through this thing -- this same thing. I mentioned it a couple of days ago. I went through this same thing with my healing. I just couldn’t take it anymore. I was just harrassing the Lord. Just telling Him I couldn’t wait any longer. I just couldn’t wait any longer. I just felt like I was going to explode. And that was when the healing came. So -- we shall see what we shall see.


I found a good “Star Trek” for you, but I think we’ll watch that Sunday. It’s called “The Enemy Within.”




It’s “The Enemy Within” and it’s about -- I forget what they call it, but that machine that beams them down and beams them up. It malfunctions. So when Captain Kirk gets beamed up, he splits into two: good and evil. You saw that one? Yeah. It was very interesting. You know? It was -- of course it was, as always, from an old-cult viewpoint, because they didn’t include Christ. But it was a very good demonstration of our two sides and how at least fallen man is at his strongest when he has his two sides woven together, with the good side ruling. You know, without the evil side. This is performing without the evil side. He’s a weakling. And if the evil side is ruling, he’s an animal. Because we’re living in a beast’s body. OK, we’re living in a beast’s -- so we are spirit. We are spirit. We are -- we have the potential to be heroic. We have the potential to be good. We have the potential to be intelligent, and intellectual, and fine, and high, and in high places. And we’re living in a beast. And that’s typified by the horse. We’re supposed to be riding our horse. We’re supposed to be. But what happened, we turned upside down and the horse is riding us, and has made us his beast. Yeah.




Christ was all in things, you just mentioned. Except for the beast part. This is where my question [INAUDIBLE]. When He got upset and started smashing the jewelry, and the gold, and the things that the people were selling. Remember this part? The part where He took a stick and He started --


They’re doves. They were selling doves.

           Yeah. What frame of mind was He in? Or was that God [INAUDIBLE]?


            Yeah. [INAUDIBLE].


It was a righteous anger.


But any other man, in those days, who murdered walking in Christ would have been considered fallen in that rage.


Well, there’s two kinds of anger. There’s an anger that comes out of the beast. There’s an anger that comes out of the beast, and there’s -- out of the beast’s nature. And then there’s an anger that comes out of the mind of Christ. And we’re talking about motive here. The anger that comes out of the beast’s nature is always to benefit self. So what’s the one self-interest? No matter how heroic it looks, some people just like to be heroes. There’s always for self-interest. But the anger that comes out of Christ is always for the glory of God. Therefore, the anger that is for the glory of God is acceptable to God. But the anger that comes out of the beast’s nature is not acceptable to God. So it was all right for Jesus to do it, because what was motivating Him was the righteousness of God. OK. Did I answer your question?


Everything we do, everything I teach here, I’m pounding it into your heads. At least I’m trying to. Motive, motive, motive. Put on a record when you go to sleep. Motive, motive, motive, motive. It’s not the words. It’s not even the behavior. Motive, motive, motive. If it’s God motivating you, there -- it’s not sin unto you. If it is your own soul, or your carnal mind, motivating you, it is sin. Because everything your carnal mind does, thinks or says is sin. Even when it looks good. Even when it sounds good. Even when it helps somebody. It’s still sin, because that’s what it is. Look, really, if a convicted serial murderer is out on the street, and he sees some little old lady starving to death, and he gives her a hundred-dollar bill, he’s still a sinful man. Even when he does good, he’s still a sinner. That’s the bottom line.


Does that take away the fact that what he did was righteous? Even though he’s a sinner?


The bottom line is, it’s my understanding of the scripture that he may have done a good deed, but it can’t be righteous if it comes out of the carnal mind. Because if you have the ability, and you really examine his heart, you’ll find a motive that glorified himself. So some people like to be bigshots. You know? Did I answer your question?




I’ve got a question about -- I was listening to Pharisees and narcissism? And  you were saying that the child -- is it OK to ask this question now?


Well, I’m always going with the Spirit. Let’s go.


OK. You were saying that the child overmade -- that the child should be taught strong morality by the parent, but that the parent should not overstep that line and mold the child’s personality. My question is how do you know when your personality has been molded by your parents? Because the example that you gave is that if the parent, for instance, didn’t like music, and the child decided to go for music, and the parent just either discouraged it or prohibited it completely because they hate music. That kind of thing, you said. But my question is how can you tell when you’ve grown up in a household that teaches you to serve God, and you’re going for God, and you’re serving God, and you really can’t choose your own field. So the field is not even it, I don’t think. I mean, your insides and creativity should not be crushed, but how do you know if it has been crushed or not when you’re just trying to serve God, and you’ve been taught all your life to serve God, and you’re still serving God to the best of your ability. But if your personality has been overrun, and your parents have molded it and living through you. How can you tell?


Well, we parents are required to train up their children. So training your child to serve God -- I don’t perceive that as molding their personality. There are certain restrictions and pressures that godly parents will put on children. We’re supposed to be pressing against ungodliness in that child. OK? And we’re supposed to be pressing godly habits. You have to take your bath. You have to clean up  your room. You have to shine your shoes. All of that is acceptable. OK. But every human being, every child has within them a potential for creativity. And if you’re truly directing that child towards God, He’s going to prosper what’s truly creative in them, while you’re serving God. Serving God doesn’t hinder the development of your creativity. You can still say to your child, what do you like to do besides serving God? I mean, most people don’t serve God 24 hours a day. Except someone like me, of course. But, you know, not many people are in as deep as I am. Children don’t. So you say what do you like to do? What’s your hobbies? You can pick your own hobbies so long as it is godly. That’s the godly restriction of the parent. Did I answer you? It’s a fine line. I understand that.


Yeah. Well, if I remember right, I don’t think it was encouraged or discouraged. I can’t remember. I don’t even think it was as issue. So my question is how can you tell if the parent has molded you aside from if they’re encouraging you or not with something that is your hobby or your interest or --


How can you tell if they’re molding your personality aside -- in an ungodly way. Because there is a -- up until a point, that we mold their personality, definitely. We mold them towards righteousness. OK? When you see a child that doesn’t know what activity they prefer. If they haven’t been allowed to experience several activities, or roleplaying, horseback riding, painting, what- -- usually you introduce them to skills that are present in the family. If you have musicians in the family, you introduce them to music. If you have ice skaters in the family, you introduce them to ice skating. And then you give them six godly potentials, and if they’re not allowed to choose, or if you’re forcing them to do something that they’re really unhappy with when they really want to do something else, you’ve gone over the line. For example, a father who’s an attorney -- you hear a lot about this -- my son’s going to be an attorney. A father who’s a businessman. My son’s going to take over the business. You can’t be a doctor. OK. The man can afford to send his son to any school in the world, but the father has made the judgement that you’re going to take over my business. That’s going over the line. It’s a fine line. I hope that I answered you. But basically, the child has to be permitted to be themselves. You know. You can even talk to your child. Say, well look, we have a million-dollar business here. You know, really, why would you want to go train to, you know, to do a job that’s going to pay you $10- -- $20,000 a year. You know, don’t you want to come into business with me? You can say something like that. You can give the facts to your son or your daughter. But if they really, really, really -- if their heart just wants to do something else, and you don’t let them go, then it becomes ungodly. So that’s the best I could do. I didn’t answer your question?


Well, I understand that part of it.


Maybe I didn’t understand your question. Ask me again.


I understand. I’ve seen examples like that, where even in, like, watching  certain movies or TV show or something, they’ll show an example like that, where the father or the mother has to let go and say, look, you choose what you like in life. But I’ve been told that I have not been allowed to be who I really am. And I don’t see any of that happening to me, as far as in the natural where my parents did that to me. As a matter of fact, I think they pretty much encouraged me in what I was going for, except, well, not in the way that I’ve chosen it though. Not in the way that they probably would have. I don’t know, maybe my mother would have me go to a certain Bible school of her choice, or something. And my father would have me just go into music, period. You know, and forget the Bible school. So, I mean, they’re different like that. But as far as the issue of Bible school and music, they haven’t discouraged it in that sense, you know. You know what I’m saying? I don’t think that they’ve molded me in that way. They’ve only encouraged my creativity. My father did. And my mother, I don’t think -- I think that she’s basically for it. She doesn’t care. So my question is, because I’ve been told this, and I feel during prayer the Lord’s revealed it, I haven’t been allowed to be who I am. So I’m wondering where that got in. How did that happen?


I hear your question. I don’t really know. I would really have had to be present. I don’t really even know your family that well.




But --


Perfectionism pressed on the child too is not allowing to be who they really are.           


Right. And I think -- well, I do have something the Lord just gave me for you. It’s -- what the Lord just gave to me was there are all kinds of subtleties. Sometimes it turns out that the child does desire the family talent. Like your family talent is music and scripture, and you desire the family talent. What was operating in your case. And there’s a lot of that, because there’s the attitude of the parents that in their heart of hearts, they have not released that child to be whoever they are, but they are living through that child for self-gratification.


[INAUDIBLE] I know that’s happened.




I just can’t find -- I can’t figure it out. It’s very subtle.


It’s very s- -- it’s an attitude of the heart. Just like witchcraft. It’s an attitude of the heart. It’s a heart-to-heart communication from the parent to the child that children recognize. That when the child achieves, the parent is not overjoyed that the child has achieved for the child’s sake, but that the child has ach- -- the fact that the child has achieved has justified the parent, or made the parent great. And it’s a using of your own child, you know. It’s a form of narcissism. And that happens frequently with that kind of narcissism. The parent will force something on the child that they don’t -- a talent or a career that they don’t want, but that doesn’t have to happen. The bottom line is that the child has been used and abused as a source of gratification for the parent’s narcissism.




And the child grows up not knowing who they are. And they never develop into their own self, because they’ve been used all their life. And they -- when they become a physical adult, they wind up in marriages or relationships with other men and women who are going to use them in the same way, for their own gratification. And these people have identity problems. They don’t really know who they are. They frequently don’t know what they want to do in life. They can’t find their direction. And the only time they feel safe and comfortable is when they’re in an ungodly soul tied with someone who’s going to use them for their own gratification, because that’s what they’re used to. It’s the only thing that makes them feel safe.


          Well, I’m starting to get very turned off to that kind of a relationship. That -- it j- -- I’m very sensitive to it now. And I don’t -- not only don’t feel comfortable, I feel caught and trapped in it, and I don’t like it, and I’ll -- I feel like I turn the other way from it. I don’t want any relationship unless God breaks that completely so that a clear relationship could happen. You know? And I think that that’s happened here and with you. I think it’s happened as a -- you know.


It’s hard to find.


Very hard to find.


Very hard to find.


        But I know that that’s what happened. I feel like, I don’t want to talk against my parents. I just feel like that they, no matter what I ch- -- if I -- no matter Bible school I would choose, I could never make my parent happy. That parent. Because they just want to be in on it. They want to, like you said, kind of like, live through, and no matter what I choose, it’s not going to make her happy. It -- because she just wants -- it’s like she oversteps the line. Even when I said something about, you know, and I corrected and made a line, she overstepped with too many questions, which, like, it was like, well I’m coming in anyway. So she comes in with her mind. You know what I mean? And so I realized that it’s really pretty heavy. It’s pretty heavy. And I -- that’s what came across my mind today, that she’s -- I feel a disapproval of the ministry that I’m in. And yet, at the same time, it looks like God’s going to, possibly, put it right in front of her face. But -- and something sh- -- you know, that I’m going to have to go through and overcome is something she’s going to have to let go, you know. Whatever disapproval it is.


She will probably never let go until the Lord breaks her hands off of you. You see, with adults who are suffering from this condition, this is the outplaying of the family-line curse. The parents don’t know what they’re doing. They’re probably just doing what their parents did to them, and they’re not even consciously thinking about it. It’s just spiritual relationships that exist that they’re not even aware of. And if you really give yourself to Christ to the point that He agrees to break you free of this, He literally has to break them. They’ll never give you up. They’ll never give you up. And it’s very common. I watched a talk show recently, and they put these psychiatrists and these psychotherapists up as the experts. So the psychotherapist was up there saying, well, this problem is generational. And she was sitting there on the TV saying this is a curse. That’s what she was saying. The problem is generational. It goes from generation to generation. Why? Because the behavior is learned and the foundation of the behavior is a familiar spirit, or a curse. And it has to be broken. Nobody’s going to stop doing it without the force of the spiritual power. And it’s usually the child that breaks away, but sometimes the parent could cry out to God for help. And the Lord could work with the parent to change the parent.


But these family-line curses, which destroy generations, they’re very powerful. And, as I’ve been telling you here for a long time now, they can be broken outside of Christ with years -- 20, 15, 20 years of therapy can stand the chance of a better life. It’s possible. Therapy doesn’t always work, but if you do achieve that it doesn’t break the spiritual curse. You can get married and have a child, and that child will, even though it’s broken in you and you’re no longer doing this to your child, that child will grow up and make a marriage just like the one that you escaped. It’s frightening. But if it’s broken in Christ, if the spiritual root is broken, and then you get married, and you have a child, and you don’t treat the child that way, and the spiritual root is also broken, then your child will be free also.


You spoke of the image. You said that the false self that’s built in by the personality being molded by the parent, and then Satan gets built up by the same thing. So there’s two things that are happening in the child. They grow up and they have this image that’s not the real them, and then they have Satan strengthening it. So you said the image must come down. And how can we help for that image to come down? How can we do that?


Christ has to replace it. The image is your carnal mind. The image is Satan engraved in your carnal mind. You cannot live without a mind, you see. So Christ has to -- a new you has to be built up, and bring that thing down. It has to be by spiritual power. Now you could do it by the spiritual power of Christ. You can do it by the spiritual power that’s resident in the natural man. We call it willpower. You can go, you know, into -- and therapy, you know, doesn’t always work. But it takes years. It takes years in psychotherapy to change something like that. It takes years in Christ, although you don’t hear this taught. It takes at least -- anything less than 10 years is unusual to completely change a p- -- with the measure of power that is in the church today, it’s my understanding that the measure of power that’s in the church today is supposed to be increased. That we’re waiting for a big outpouring of His power, where these things are going to speed up. We know Jesus rebuked the legion in the [UNINTELLIGIBLE]. Within a few days or a few weeks, his life was turned upside down. He was antisocial. He was running naked in the graveyards. He was suicidal. He was totally unable to function in society. And the next time Jesus saw him, he was a normal person. And all Jesus did was rebuke the legion.


But Jesus had a very sharp knife that is not available in the church today. So where every opinion that I give you, I’m talking about the measure of power that is in the church today. Anything less than 10 years is outstanding. But certainly it takes years. Look, you come here. You’re 20, 30, 40 years old. And this thing has been living itself through you for all these years, through your father, through your grandfather, through your great grandfather. You think someone’s going to go boop in the name of Jesus and you’re going to be OK? Not with the measure of power that’s in the church today. Althouth Jesus had the power to do it. So if you’re just starting out, and you’re just starting on this program of change, and we enter into the new order and Christ begins to be poured out without measure, well you’re blessed. I’ve been struggling for 15 years here, and maybe it’s going to happen to you in a week. It’s possible, you know. Praise the Lord.


[INAUDIBLE] wake up one morning and be a changed person, like that? Is that -- or am I hearing this --


I’m saying that you can -- well, it’s possible at any time. God could give you a miracle at any time, but we’re waiting for the church to pass over into a new stage of power, whereby it will be -- that power will be available to everybody. It’s true.


Another question that I had about the creativity --


Were you not finished?




Hold -- see, if you hold your own microphone you can’t lose it.


I know.


You see.


You said there’s a dilemma in this country, and you said that there’s a forcing of a person into doing things, the kind of work that’s not really them. And my question is if you’re really flowing in Christ, are you going to go for the type of work where -- that you’re really talented in and where you can -- where your creativity can come out?


If you have the guts to do it. Most people today don’t have the guts to do it. What does that mean? It means that if you want to flow with this society, OK? And you want all of the things, the TVs, and Madison Avenue tells you your supposed to have -- if you want all the material possessions, if you want all the money, if you want the medical insurance, if you want all the signs of prestige, OK? The chances are you’re not flowing in Christ. You see. So if you’re truly willing to give up everything of this world, and follow Christ, you will receive an assignment or a job that will use your creativity to the maximum. Now the Lord might send you to college. He might make you a doctor. He may put you in a big corporate structure. OK? I would not think to restrict the Lord, but I believe that if you give your life over to Christ and you do not bend your knee to the gods of this world, OK, that you will be fully satisfied in your life’s work. Not tomorrow, not the next day. It may take several years for God to bring you in, but if your life is controlled by Christ, don’t expect a $100,000 life insurance policy or a big major medical policy, because that’s not Him. And -- I was just going to say something. It just went right out of my mind. And, of course, it’s a big problem, but if you’re a man it’s a big problem if you want to get married, because you just try and convince your wife that you’re going to live without medical insurance, you know, for you and your 10 kids. Now you just try to convince your wife that, yeah, you’re willing to live in a jungle if Jesus sends you there, you know. And you don’t really care if your living in a dilapidated house with old furniture, or no furniture. You convince your wife that Christ might require you to go to a medical clinic, instead of the top doctors on Park Avenue. So it’s really hard to live a life in Christ when you’re raising a family. OK?


And I’m answering your question. Anyone listening to this message -- some people, they misunderstand me. I’m not against marriage. I’m absolutely not against marriage. I deal in truth. You asked me a question. I’m answering your question. Paul said that because of this present distress, it’s best if you’re not married. That’s what he said. And this is what he was talking about. That doesn’t mean you can’t get married, but that’s what Paul said. But he said, you know, if you have to get married, but it’s best if you don’t, because it’s hard, if not impossible -- I guess nothing’s impossible in Christ -- to really live a Christ life, a life of faith, when you have a wife and children in this materialistic society. It’s just -- it’s realy hard, and even if you marry a woman who says she’s going to go along with it, somehow once you have those kids, and your kids are going to school, and they want a $30 pair of sneakers like the kid next to them, I don’t know that I could do it. How do you explain to your little kid, you know, why they’re wearing a dress that was bought down at the thrift shop, and the other kid’s got an expensive dress. It’s just really hard, unless you’re in a group of Christians that live in a commune, that have their own society. But, then again, you have to ask yourself is that Christ if you’re living in a commune that has their own -- ? People who are really in Christ, they’re rugged individualists. They’re rugged individualists, you know?


Is that something, like what you just said, is that a modern-day Israel?


I’m not sure. What do you mean? You mean living in a commune?


Yeah, like, you go to Israel on the news. You see it. And you constantly see the Jewish settlers, where they are. And you see the Palestine people, where they are. But they’re all in, like, this --




            So this is a modern-day co- --




Because they’re so tight knit with the religion and everything.




It’s like family knows family.




Whenever evil strikes up, everyone comes in.






Right. OK. Well, it doesn’t have to be commune. It could be a community where there’s a lot of people that believe the same way. So at least your children don’t feel like they’re freaks. You know? So if you have -- if you belong to a group like that and Christ is in it, well then, maybe it will work for you, but my experience in God is that He’s taking me and everybody here down a path where there’s so few of us that it would be very difficult raising a child in -- with what Jesus is doing here. Because you have to be a rugged individualist. You have to say I don’t care what you think. I don’t care if the whole church world out there doesn’t believe this. I know that I heard from God. And you take a look at our numbers and you see how many rugged individualists there are around. The people that can’t stand against the disapproval of the church. They can’t stand! That’s why everybody that comes here is filled with rebellion when they come here. We get all the rebellious, arrogant, proud people. Why? Because no one else could make it here. That Jesus brings you in here. OK? And, I’m telling you. And then He gets you, because -- God help us, it’s true. I know. I have all your scars on me. I know it. And I was the same way. Look, that’s the kind of people that He brings in here.


That’s true. That’s true.


And then He cleans you up, and He takes that toughness in you, and He directs it for His own purposes. Please use a microphone.


Those church people out there are just as bad too. They just, I mean, they’re  just as arrogant and stubborn. I mean, they’re Pharisees; aren’t they?


It’s not true.


They just -- that’s why they’re not here, yeah.


They’re arrogant and stubborn, but they don’t have the guts to stand up against the public disapproval.


Oh, I see.


They’re -- they want to go with the herd. They want to go with the flock. They want to be like everybody else. They want to be accepted. They don’t want to be different. They don’t want to bear the persecution. You know, they won’t stand for what in their heart they know is right. They won’t stand for it. They’ll go with the crowd. And they’ll lose everything. I’ve seen it happen time and time again. They go with the crowd. We’re a bunch of rebels here. We don’t go with the crowd.




It’s true! Anybody who’s ever come here doesn’t go with the crowd.


So I have a question about the creativity, where you said that Eve is the spirit and she’s creative -- the creative part of us is Eve. So what’s she going to do if she’s set free, to where our spirit comes out more? How’s this creativeness going to show up? What’s going to happen? What’s she going to do?


Well, I’m assuming you’re talking about her being freed in Christ. If she’s freed in Christ, she will fill her potential in Christ. You see, Christ is a many-membered man. He is so creative and diverse that we cannot even imagine, because He’s a superhuman being and He’s expressing just a fraction of His creativity through each individual. That’s how, even though we will all be in full stature -- what does that mean, that the mind of Christ will be fully manifested in every individual, yet we won’t be the same. Some people that don’t understand say, well, if Christ -- if the mind of Christ is fully manifested in every individual, and the mind of Christ is not divided you’ll be clones. You’ll all be exactly the same. You’ll be robots walking around like this. Now that’s not true, because Christ Himself is creative, and a different aspect of Him will be reflected through each of us. So whatever your potential is, however Christ wants to use you, He will flow with your creativity, and you will reach your highest potential when you yield to His spirit. Did I answer your question?


Could you give me some examples of how she’s creative? Or no?


Well, you know what creativity means. Some people sing. Some people dance. Some people preach. Some people teach. Some people do research. Some people build with their hands. Some people are carpenters. People have all different natural talents that they’re born with. We all have to find out --


So, natural talents.


Yes. We have to find out what our talents are. OK? And then you have to go with your talents. The problem with fallen behavior is that our talent frequently is not salable. That means no one is willing to pay us to do it. So you have to get a job doing something that doesn’t involve your talent. I heard a discussion on two men -- between two men on the Long Island railroad coming home once. They were both musicians. It was very sad. It really saddened me. And one was a mature gentleman. The other was a young gentleman, who still had hopes of being a musician as his livelihood. And the older gentleman was telling him he had the same hopes, and he finally had to give it up. And he had some kind of a job, and he had to take care of his family. And he gave it up. You know? Everything has its price. You have to decide what you want. You can’t have everything in this world. Some people have everything. But you have to be willing to give up everything to pursue a lifestyle that will develop you into all that are. And that should really be done before you get married, because if that’s not developed at the time that you get married you are going to be crushed down into a mediocre job. Now if that’s what you want that’s fine, but don’t do it then and expect something else. You know, deal in the truth. Deal in the truth.


So, for example, if it’s your heart’s desire to be a  professional musician, count the cost. Take a look out there. See how few people really succeed in earning their living as a professional musician. Pay the price if you want to.  Live in the cheapest living accomo- -- if it’s necessary, live in the cheapest living accomodations you can find. Don’t have any clothes. Don’t have any car. Give up all your financial needs except the basic, bare necessities of life. And pursue your life’s goal with everything that you’ve got. And if you’re willing to do that, the chances are that you will make it. But if you’re going to give it a half-hearted effort, because before you achieve that goal you also want to get married, and have children, and spread yourself out here, and here, and here, the chances of you making it are very small. And the chances of you being forced to give it up and take a mediocre job are great. And I’m not saying that’s bad to take a mediocre job. If what you really want is that -- if you meet a woman, and you love her, and you’re not willing to give her up, and you make that choice, as long as it’s an intelligent choice we shouldn’t be seduced into things. As long as it is an intelligent choice that you know what you’re giving up, and you choose this woman, well then it’s your choice. It’s a free country. Right?


Did you say man?


No. I said woman. It’s a free country. You know, go and do it. But know what you’re doing. Don’t be seduced into things. Don’t have desires or other people control you. Be in control of your life. Find out what your potential is and pursue it. And the best way to find out and puruse it is to turn your life over to Christ. He will use you to the max. But that’s a hard way to live. And living your life in Christ, letting Him take full control of your life flies in the face of the whole established society.




Yeah. You have to -- don’t expect what this society offers. It’s pretty much a choice. Complete spiritual fulfillment or complete establishment fulfillment. Because the flesh loves to forget the spirit, and the spirit loves to forget the flesh, and the two will never go together. And I want to tell you this exists even amongst professionals. I’ve worked in some of the most prestigious law firms in Manhatten, and a lot of these lawyers are absolutely miserable. They get out of law school, but these really top law firms in the city, they start out -- well, I haven’t had a job there for, you know, for a long time. Five, six, seven years ago. These guys would graduate law school and on their first job they’d start out with $55- --$60,000 a year. That’s to start, without their first raise. OK. And I’ve met lawyers that are miserable. Why? Because the law firms that pay this kind of money -- OK, at the top they call them Ivy League law firms. You go to Harvard and Yale, and they have all the billonaire corporate clients in there. You can’t be creative. They pay you $55,000 a year, and they completely control what you do, and you can’t follow the job through from beginning to end. They give you a little section of it. They’re departmentalized. All you do is research. All you do is this. All you do is that. All you do is that. And they’re miserable. And every once in awhile, you come up against a real rugged individual that’s willing to fly in the face of society, and they quit their $55 or $100,000 a year job, and they go out and they start up a practice on the streets. They go down into the ghettos and open up the storefront practice. And they make $20,000 a year. They could get more money working for the Long Island railroad, but they see the case through from beginning to end. OK?


And they get to practice law. Right?


And they get to pract- -- they get to help people that are really being swindled by the system. Their work means something. They touch people’s lives and they’re not religated to one little corner, doing the same thing every day. With all that education, all they do every day is that same little thing. But they do the whole book. They do the whole book. And they have full expression of themselves.




You see this with lawyers. You see this with doctors. And usually, if you’re married, your wife is screaming that you have a potential to make all of this money. What are you doing down there in the slums, working for nothing? And it’s just the truth. [?Really blame her?] I’m not against women that do this. When you’re raising a family you want, you know -- well, I had the same testimony. I spent years of my life desperately trying to become interested or committed to something, and nothing held my interest. Nothing. Until the Lord revealed Himself to me. And from the day the Lord found me -- because it’s a lie that you found the Lord. He finds you. He’s not lost. We’re the ones who are lost. From the day that He found me, I realized I found what I had been looking for all my life. And I just ran straight towards Him. And I remember crying out. I remember the days -- I had such severe trials with my employment, and oh, it was -- I was so miserable, and I remember crying because I was so exhausted between working at my job, and I was raising a child, and I had a home to take care of, and I spent hours studying the word of God, because it was the only thing that was keeping me alive. And I was sick at the time also. And I remember crying. I was literally exhausted from flipping the pages of my concordance, and I cried out to God, and I said Lord, why can’t I have a job doing this kind of thing? I just love it. I love this research. Can’t you give me a job researching? And I thought God didn’t hear me, but He gave me a job five or seven years after I prayed that prayer. Here I am. I have the job of my dreams! But I don’t have any other fringe benefits of the world. And I know for awhile that was a real problem for me. It was a real problem for me! But I got the revelation that you can’t have both, unless God gives you both. But there will be a season when you can’t have both. And right now, my attitude is I am so completely fulfilled with what God has given me. I do not think about the material things that I am lacking. And this is my life. And I have to believe that if I ever have a real need, that He’ll take care of me. If I get sick, He’ll heal me, or He’ll pay for the hospital bill like He did the last time. I have to believe it, because I don’t have any medical insurance. I don’t have any money to pay a hospital bill. You know. So I just accept it. He answered my prayer, and now my whole life is in His hands, and whatever happens to me happens to me, and I’m happy every day. And we have a whole society of people who are miserable every day, except for two weeks out of the year when they go on vacation, and even then they’re not happy because they don’t even know what they want.


I was walking around school. I don’t know if it was a high school, my old high school, or an old high school, and the hallways were, like, winding and stuff, and all I could remember seeing was -- you know the tiles you see in the bathroom? Well, they were all white-like, and I was walking down the hallway and, all of a sudden, for some reason, I was up on the top floor. And I was looking at the top floor and there was a -- it was a round room and I walked towards another round room. And it was like those old-fashioned houses with the round room with the peaks. And all the walls were, like -- they were white, but they had all, like, mold on them and stuff. You know, like, if you see a crummy-looking basement, like, with the mold and stuff. Like the concretes scale a little bit. And they were sho- -- pointing something out. I didn’t know what it was, and I was just like,well this doesn’t mean anything to me. So I just kept walking. And I was walking to go back to the stairs, but there wasn’t a stairs. And as I was trying to walk it was like the room was a circle, and it was making me dizzy, and it was such a struggle to go back. And as I tried to go back, I went -- I thought I was going to the stairs, but it was a slide. I had to slide down to get to the bottom. And there was a man standing there. And I was afraid to go down. And finally, when I got down to the bottom, he grabbed me and he got me, you know, so I didn’t hurt myself. But I didn’t know why I thought I was going to hurt myself or whatever. And in the first place, how the heck did I even get up there? Because there was no stairs to go up there in the beginning with.


You just appeared up there.


Yeah. It was wild. So I don’t understand what it’s supposed to mean.


It was -- was it still the school house? It was still -- was it like the attic, the top floor of the school house? And it was circular. You kept walking around and around.


Well, first I walked into that other room, where I told you with all the concrete and everything. That was one part of it, but then, as I went to -- I seemed to have walked across there, but then when I went to go back I had to, like, really persevere. It was making me dizzy and making me sick to walk. Because it was like it was spinning as I was walking.


So getting back was the problem.




And the room with all the concrete, was it an unfinished room?


It was empty.


It was empty. Well, every time I’ve ever heard of a high school being in a dream, it’s typified the church, because we’re in school in the church. In the traditional church world. And usually -- it was high school. We’re in college here. This is Bible college. So pretty much everybody here has graduated from Bible high school. So, I would say, you’re old high school indicated your Bible high school, whatever that church was. And that you ascended into the highest level of that school, which was an unfinished place. And we know that the kingdom of God isn’t finished yet. Jesus said, “I go to prepare a place for you.” And the place that He was preparing -- what He meant by it was that He was being converted into a form whereby He can build His life in our very own heart. That’s what He was talking about. The place that He was preparing for us was the kingdom of God in our own heart. So you ascended to the highest place of that Bible high school, which wasn’t completed yet. Still under construction. Christ Jesus is still under -- the kingdom of God is still under construction. And then you pressed through, and you went into a circular room. I’m not too sure what that means, except a circle typifies this world, typifies this earth world, this cycle of this earth world. We keep going around, and around, and around. And our only deliverance from it is to be -- to go up. We have to go up. Otherwise we’d just stay on this endless treadmill. [AUDIO CUTS OUT]


The thing that comes to my mind is that we’re all on this journey to get up as high as we can get. And then when we get there we’re supposed to come back down to get the others, but before we can come back down we have to be purified, or our sin has to be cast out. The doctrine of Christ has to be formed in us into a level of maturity that we can give it back out. Many of us understand but we can’t teach it. Understanding it and teaching it is two totally different things. So you kept going around and around, maybe having some trouble getting your sins cast out or whatever, or it just took a season, you know. Maybe each time you went around typified a year or whatever. I’m not too sure about that. And then you had to go down, back into the world, come back down to the level of the common man so that you could be part of the company that will be raising him back up. And you went down on a slide, which means you got down much faster than it took you to go up.




And there was someone down at the bottom to see that you didn’t hurt yourself, which would be Christ. Yeah, because going up is very hard, and it’s like climbing a mountain. Takes a long time. Takes all your energy. But then once you’re prepared to go down -- what?


I never saw going up. I never really realized I went up.


Yeah. Well, I think that happens to a lot of people. They don’t realize that they’re ascending and they can’t see their growth in Christ. And, so, a lot of people, they don’t even realize what they’ve got until they come back down and compare themselves to other believers. I know it took me a long time to realize what God had done to me and I couldn’t perceive it. I couldn’t see it and it was manifesting in me in a very strange way. I kept expecting everybody else to be like I was. And when they didn’t understand what I was talking about, or they would be very carnal, I would get very upset and somehow I would take it personally. I would think that there was something wrong with me. Somehow it was getting twisted in my head. And, or if they couldn’t bear to be around me -- because a lot of people couldn’t bear to be around me, because I didn’t know what it was doing. All I wanted was to talk about the word of God, and they couldn’t stand it. They couldn’t stand all that conversation, but they had -- about the deep word of God -- but they had so much pride that everyone that I went to, without exception, they had so much pride that nobody ever said to me, Sheila, I just can’t take your talking about the word of God so much. Can’t we talk about something else? They would just walk away and leave me standing there. So I was severely rejected, couldn’t figure out what was going on for a long time, until finally the Lord got it through my head that everybody is not where I was.


Then you go through the reverse pride, as I teach you here all the time. Pride is a spirit if what you’re thinking or what you’re saying is the truth, then it cannot be pride, because truth is a spirit. And truth and pride are complete opposite spirits. One is a light spirit and the other is a dark spirit. So what you’re thinking or saying at any given moment has to be either truth or pride. It cannot be both. So I couldn’t deal with this, that God had done something in me that he didn’t do in anybody else. I said, boy, this must be pride. This is crazy. It just can’t be true. Devil, get out of my mind. I’m up here all by myself. I don’t even have anybody to talk to about all this stuff. And then reverse pride kicked in. It can’t be true. It must be pride in me. You know? How could this possibly have happened to me, that I know something that you don’t know? And that I know something that maybe an elder in this high school, Bible high school, doesn’t know. Because this guy spent -- you heard my testimony. I spent at least three years on my faith. Hours on my faith, saying dear Lord, if this is the devil, deliver me. How could I know all this stuff and nobody else, including my pastor, knows it? I used to cry tears begging God to deliver me, but it never went away. It just got stronger and stronger, until finally I accepted it, that God had done something very unique in me. That doesn’t make me any great one, but He picked me. Look, what can I tell you, He picked me. So who am I to say that He made any kind of mistake picking me? He picked me. I tell everybody all the time, if you don’t like it it’s tough. He picked me. Just to make a fool out of you. Isn’t that what the Bible says? He’s going to confound the wise. Isn’t that what the Bible says? He’s going to confound the wise. He’s going to pick somebody to appear in that will offend you, so that you have to make a choice whether you are going to receive Christ in His choice vessel, or you are going to reject Him because you don’t like who He picked. Either you don’t like me because I’m a woman, or you don’t like me because my voice is little, or you don’t like me because I’m not a, you know, an army type. You know. But whatever it is, if you don’t like me because I’m not married. Or it might be because I’m divorced. I’ve heard all these ridiculous stories. The fact is that Christ is appearing in me. And if you reject me, you’re rejecting Him. So choose. I personally don’t care less. It’s between you and God. I tell everybody that.


So, what was I talking about? Where did this come from? What was I saying?




Oh, your dream. Yeah. So it’s very hard getting up there. OK? And it’s -- look at our numbers. It’s very few.




Yeah, it was hard -- well, it’s very hard coming back down. It’s very hard getting up there. It’s one set of problems getting up and it’s another set of problems getting down. So getting up is very hard because of what I just described, the reverse pride that you can’t believe that this could possibly be true. And we have even people coming to the church -- everyone here has a testimony with somebody saying to them, you mean the whole church world is wrong and your small group is right? Yeah. Yeah. You know? So it’s very hard. OK? Noah preached 121 years. Nobody believed him. Right? So, and even when God went to Abraham -- we don’t know how many people God went to before He went to Abraham that wouldn’t take the challenge. He just went to one man. So that’s the problems you have going up. But coming down, now you got used to all this glory, all this annointing, all this deep doctrine. Coming down is another whole set of problems. You get used to being up there. You get used to the doctrine. You get used to the high annointing. You get used to the glory, and you get used to these intense meetings, four or five hours of this doctrine, intense doctrine. And now you have to go back down, and you have to talk to people that haven’t the vaguest idea what you’re talking about. Now you have to engage in carnal conversations with them, waiting for that one opportunity to speak the one word of God unto them. So coming down is painful, I had a lot of trouble coming down. I had a lot of trouble spending hours in carnal fellowship. It killed me for a long time.


It was funny, but it actually felt like my mind was spinning as I was trying to walk straight. It was almost like being in one of those carnival rides, how you couldn’t wait until you got off. That’s what it felt like. It was really wild.


Well, there is a scripture in the Old Testament that says He’s going to spin us like a ball. And I think that’s referring to the carnal mind. So that’s what it sounds like to me. You know, you ascended above high school, you stayed up there for awhile, OK, and then you came back down. And you’re like an angel, coming back down into the earth. So that could signify Christ coming down to the earth, which would be His appearing. It would be His appearing. OK.


[INAUDIBLE] I don’t think I ever heard you say that before. [INAUDIBLE] When you had all this revelation we -- can I say, about biblical things and how you want to express it through yourself from Christ that people just wouldn’t receive it.


They couldn’t bear it. They just didn’t know what I was talking about. It’s very painful to people’s carnal minds. So I’ve seen -- it’s in the scriptures that people --


Do you think they do it on your messages too? They’ll, like -- I’m sorry.


I’ve seen it. I’ve seen the pain on people’s faces. I’ve seen it. They’re really in pain, you know.


09/13/17 Transcribed by VerbalFusion

09/17/14 1st Edit CAS/BP

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Pastor Vitale's Bio

Sheila R. Vitale is the founding teacher and pastor of Living Epistles Ministries and Christ-Centered Kabbalah. In that capacity, she expounds upon the Torah (Scripture) and teaches Scripture through a unique Judeo-Christian lens.

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